Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    personnel.  Then make sure you follow it up with the managers directly.
    But these actions are against the P&P, I'm pretty sure.  Personnel can
    tell you for sure.
    
    call it "p.m." -- preventative maintenence.
    
    these guys need an eeo refresher course.  they could get dec sued,
    bigtime, for sex discrimination.

    
    If I were you, here's what I would do.
    
    - Organize thoughts as bullet-points on paper
    ie :	. James & I came up with idea
    		. Bill, WhatHisName & I signed to the idea
    		. Idea was not carried out
    		. WhomEver explained that idea was unacceptable because of
    			- x
    			- y
    			- z
    
    - Take those points to your immediate half-boss, "for review, just to
    	make sure that I understand this correctly."
    
    - If he agrees to the list's accuracy, take to higher-level boss for 
    	the same reason.  It could be possible that your first boss's 
    	interpretation was wrong.
    
    - If he agrees to the lists's accuracy, take list to personnel and make 
    	sure it's illegal.  If it's legal, I'd get another job.
    
    - Let your boss(es) know that you intend to pursue the legality of
    your situation through personnel.  AFTER you've double-checked the
    legality.  I would call several people in personnel and in addition
    a lawyer, if possible.
    
    - If they still don't do anything, nail 'em to the wall with their 
    own words!
    
    
    I'm sorry you have to go through this.  You're going to have to decide
    for yourself how far to take it and just what the costs really are.  Is
    there a DEC "blacklist" of women who've taken things to personnel?  At
    my old company, any visit, formal or informal, confidential or not,
    warranted a meeting with my boss.  Anything I told personnal was then 
    told word-for-word, to my boss.  Before I would ever go to personnel
    again, at any company, I would be ready to lose my job or at the very
    least, slow my promotability.
    
    Good luck!
    Rachael Barlow
    

    In addition to *writing* out the list of agreements re: the reporting
    structure in your 4 area organization, I would also put in mention of
    the conversation where the manager said that he didn't feel comfortable
    dealing with you directly because what would happen if you were on
    maternity leave.  This is the operative and important phrase here.  You
    need to document the conversation in writing.  Document, document,
    document.
    
    I would then recommend that after you talk to your manager about this
    issue...and if you don't have a reasonable resolution...you take it to
    personnel.  I would not contact an attorney external to the company
    until you have had opportunity to talk to personnel.
    
    If you want, you can contact me directly and I would be happy to
    recommend some particular persons in personnel that you could talk to
    based on the organization you work in.  There are many really fine
    people in the personnel organization.  I am not denying that some of
    them have not done there jobs properly, but that does not make the
    entire organization bad.  
    
    Good luck.
    
    Laura
    dtn: 276-8470
    

    
    I suggest you lay all your cards on the table and really speak
    what is on your mind and how you are feeling as you described in your
    note..If you don't get an acceptable answer see your personnel
    consultant and move up the org. right to the top. If that doesn't work, 
    call John Murphy..251-1317
    
    You need to hear that you own telling the appropriate folks 
    involved how you feel and exactley what you expect. As I said if necessary
    elevate through the organization using John as a resource..
    
         Gene Marshall
                                                                   

.0
>	When I approached John, he said that Bill wasnt really keen
>	on this "dotted line" - that there was a problem with escalation
>	of issues and what would happen if I wasnt in work and resolution 
>	was needed on one of "my" issues, ...

This is BS.  

My take. Set up a formal 30 minute appointment for the three of you. 
Tell them you want the three of you to get together to clarify your
job role. If either one gives out with a variation of "we really don't
need to do this," go very formal (you know, not hostile but very
formal) and state that you believe this is very important to you and
your current position, and you really expect the three of you to meet
and discuss this. (It's their job.) 

Bring a copy of each proposal, memo, etc. related this to the meeting.
Also prepare a checklist of what the protocol should be for the four
areas.  Discuss it. Be polite but firm.  Point out politely but firmly
that the change in protocol was agreed to, and let's all do it this
way from now on.

Let them whine and explain for five to ten minutes. You listen and nod
politely at their "explanations." This is not silly. It is a law of
the universe that everyone must explain why their "mistake" was really
quite rational before they can relook at an issue.  If they don't get
a chance to discharge the explanation, their ports will be clogged
with the explanation and nothing new will penetrate, even if they
mouth something.) 

If they agree, swell.

If they do not agree, state the personnel should be consulted on this, 
because they are attempting to change your job defintion and your career
path, so the three of you plus personnel can discuss it.

If they agree but continue the current state of things, request a 
meeting with the three of you again and ask them if they would
like personnel to attend.

And as an earlier reply stated, keep track from today on all matters
relating to this and your job performance. 

>	or is it a matter for Personnel?  I feel I should give JOhn
>	one more chance as it is a new position for him but it is
>	from the staff manager that this sentiment originated.

Don't give John one more chance. Give John AND Bill a chance.
After all, both have screwed up here.

>	Apologies for being so long-winded ...

You weren't. And Best of Luck with This.       Meigs