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Conference turris::womannotes-v3

Title:Topics of Interest to Women
Notice:V3 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:REGENT::BROOMHEAD
Created:Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1078
Total number of notes:52352

418.0. "WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM WOMEN WRITERS" by KAHALA::CAMPBELL_K (Looks like someday is here!) Wed Oct 03 1990 16:38

    I tried to find a note about this, to no avail. If this subject
    is redundant, please point me in the right direction, thanks!
    
    I'm interested in networking with women who write and/or have
    been published.  One of my life goals is to become a published
    fiction writer, and someday to write a novel.  I may be 90
    when that happens, but it will happen!  I'd like to know what
    kind of education you needed, how you did it, any advice you
    can offer.
    
    I had my first rejection slip at age 9!  It was from Scholastic
    Press, and their advice was keep writing, which I took to heart
    and have the journals to prove it.  I've kept a journal since age
    12, have several poems and short stories, but haven't had the 
    nerve to do anything with it.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Kim
    
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418.1NAVIER::SAISIWed Oct 03 1990 16:565
    Kim,
      I am interested too!  I have enjoyed writing since about the age
    of 12, at first journals and later stories.  One of these days I
    will get up my nerve to take a creative writing class.
    	Linda
418.2BOOKS::BUEHLERThu Oct 04 1990 10:2413
    
    Hi,
    
    there is quite a large network of women professors/writers at Clark
    University in WOrcester who have been published. In fact, I'm taking
    a course now in which each week, a woman speaker comes in to
    discuss her main specialty--for instance, literature, geography,
    history *as seen through feminine perspective.*
    I think if you called them at the COPACE office, they could direct
    you to one of these writers.  
    
    Maia
    
418.3Might be worth checking out, thoughGWYNED::YUKONSECLeave the poor nits in peace!Fri Oct 05 1990 12:3316
    I don't know if this will help, or if it is of interest or not, but..
    what the heck.
    
    My September Mensa Bulletin had the following classified ad:
    
    	"BE PUBLISHED:  Free consultation.  Mensa author/editor.
    	William Carroll, P.O. Bin 711, San Marcos, CA 92069"
    
    Mensa Bulletin, of course, publishes the following disclaimer:
    
    	"No endorsement by Mensa is intended or implied by the 
    	publication of any ad in the Mensa Bulletin."
    	"The Mensa Bulletin does not knowingly accept ads which 
    	misrepresent..."etc., etc..
    
    E Grace
418.4MOMCAT::CADSE::GLIDEWELLWow! It's The Abyss!Wed Oct 10 1990 00:0533
>   ...I'd like to know what kind of education you needed, 
>   how you did it, any advice you can offer.
    
1. Get Writers Market. It lists all the publishers in the US,
   for fiction and the other stuff. Reading it is always
   inspiring.

   Also, the book includes the names and addresses of writers
   groups. Seems to me there are three or four in Mass.

2. There are a number of writers and editors in this file.
   Some of them may be willing to look at your stuff with
   an editorial eye. (I'll look at any non-fiction you have.    
   I have no experience with fiction ... so my comments
   would be coming from left field.)

3. Subscribe to one of the writer's mags ... or read them
   in the library. They are always inspiring. What! they
   pay money for this stuff! Yum!

4. If you take a course, be sure to get a prof who has
   published a number of things in the public press (as
   opposed to just the academic press).  Teaching writing is 
   a field where it is possible to be dreadful and employed
   at the same time.

   Meigs

p.s. I would not get too excited about the person in the ad. There
     are lots of people who do that ... a friend of mine used to ...
     and they just don't contribute much. by and large, they correct
     grammar and make lofty statements. Perhaps someone else has
     seen this in a better light, but that's my take.
418.5These groups have been helpful to me....DSSDEV::LEMENFri Oct 12 1990 12:0217
    If you're interested in writing, a great resource
    is the National Writer's Union. The Boston Local
    sponsors a lot of interesting workshops (things like
    "Taxes for the Freelancer" and "How to Get in Print").
    They have a social meeting every second Wednesday of
    the month at the bar at Tapas in Cambridge. 
    
    Another resource is the Cambridge Center for Adult
    Education, but I am loathe to recommend particular
    courses over the Net.
    
    If you'd like more info about the NWU, or the Cambridge
    Center, or some of the realities of freelance writing,
    feel free to contact me.
    
    June Lemen
    DSSDEV::LEMEN DTN 381-2263
418.6PROSE notes conf. TLE::RANDALLliving on another planetFri Oct 12 1990 12:367
    An in-house resource is the PROSE notes conference, an online
    workshop for creative writers.  Add entry HSSWS1::PROSE.
    
    It's not all women, but there are several women who post there
    regularly.
    
    --bonnie, unpublished novelist
418.7Virginia Woolf's advice to women writersTLE::RANDALLself-defined personTue Oct 16 1990 16:39220
    And here, for everyone's erudition, is a transcription of a speech 
    Virginia Woolf gave to the Women's Service League, 1931 . . . all
    typos are my fault . . . it's quite long so you might want to
    print it out. 

    
    ======================================================
    When your secretary invited me to come here, she told me that your
    Society is concerned with the employment of women and she
    suggested that I might tell you something about my own
    professional experiences. It is true I am a woman; it is true I am
    employed; but what  professional experiences have I had?  It is
    difficult to say.  My  profession is literature; and in that
    profession there are fewer  experiences for women than in any
    other, with the exception of the  stage -- fewer, I mean, that are
    peculiar to women.  For the road was  cut many years ago -- by
    Fanny Burney, by Aphra Behn, by Harriet  Martineau, by Jane
    Austen, by George Eliot -- many famous women, and  many more
    unknown and forgotten, have been before me, making the path 
    smooth, and regulating my steps.  |Thus, when I came to write,
    there  were very few material obstacles in my way.  Writing was a
    reputable  and harmless occupation.  The family peace was not
    broken by the  scratching of a pen.  No demand was made upon the
    family ;purse.  For  ten and sixpence one can buy paper enough to
    write all the plays of  Shakespeare -- if one has a mind that way. 
    Pianos and models, Paris,  Vienna and Berlin, masters and
    mistresses, are not needed by a writer.  The cheapness of writing
    paper is, of course, the reason why women  have succeeded as
    writers before they have succeeded in the other  professions. 

    But to tell you my story -- it is a simple one.  You have only got
    to figure to yourselves a girl in a bedroom with a pen in her
    hand.  She had only to move that pen from left to right -- from
    ten o'clock to one.  Then it occurred to her to do what is simple
    and cheap enough after all -- to slip a few of those pages into an
    envelope, fix a penny stamp in the corner, and drop the envelope
    in the red box at the corner.  IT was thus that I became a
    journalist; and my effort was rewarded on the first day of the
    following month -- a very glorious day it was for me -- by a
    letter from an editor containing a check for one pound ten
    shillings and sixpence.  But to show you how little I deserve to be
    called a professional woman, how little I know of the struggles
    and difficulties of such lives, I have to admit that instead of
    spending that sum upon bread and butter, rent, shoes and
    stockings, or butcher's bills, I went out and bought a cat -- a
    beautiful cat, a Persian cat, which very soon involved me in
    bitter disputes with my neighbors.

    What could be easier than to write articles and to buy Persian
    cats with the profits?  But wait a moment.  Articles have to be
    about something.  Mine, I seem to remember, was about a novel by a
    a famous man.  And while I was writing this review, I discovered
    that if I were going to review books I should need to do battle
    with a certain phantom.  And the phantom was a woman, and when I
    came to know her better I called her after the heroine of a famous
    poem, The Angel in the House.  It was she who used to come between
    me and my paper when I was writing reviews.  It was she who
    bothered me and wasted my time and so tormented me that at last I
    killed her.  You who have come of a younger and happier generation
    may not have heard of her -- you may not know what I mean by the
    Angel in the House.  I will describe her as shortly as I can.  She
    was intensely sympathetic.  She was immensely charming.  She was
    utterly unselfish.  She excelled in the difficult arts of family
    life.  She sacrificed herself daily.  If there was chicken, she
    took the leg; if there was a draught she sat in it -- in short she
    was so constituted that she never had a mind or a wish of her
    own,m but preferred to sympathize always with the minds and wishes
    of others.  Above all -- I need not say it -- she was pure.  Her
    purity was supposed to be her chief beauty -- her blushes, her
    great grace.  In those days -- the last of Queen Victoria -- every
    house had its Angel.  And when I came to write I encountered her
    with the very first words.  The shadow of her wings fell on my
    page; I heard the rustling of her skirts in the room.  Directly,
    that is to say, I took my pen in hand to review that novel by a
    famous man, she slipped behind me and whispered:  "My dear, you
    are a young woman.  You are writing about a book that has been
    written by a man.  Be sympathetic; be tender; flatter; deceive;
    use all the arts and wiles of our sex.  Never let anybody guess
    that you have a mind of your own.  Above all, be pure."  And she
    made as if to guide my pen.  I now record the one act for which I
    take some credit to myself, though the credit rightly belongs to
    some excellent ancestors of mine who left me a certain sum of
    money -- shall we say 500 pounds a year? -- so that it was not
    necessary for me to depend solely on charm for my living.  I
    turned upon her and caught her by the throat.  I did my best to
    kill her.  My excuse, if I were to be had up in a court of law,
    would be that I acted in self-defense.  Had I not killed her she
    would have killed me.  She would have plucked the heart out of my
    writing.  For, as I found, directly I put pen to paper, you cannot
    review even a novel without having a mind of your own, without
    expressing what you think to be the truth about human relations,
    morality, sex.  And all those questions, according to the Angel in
    the House, cannot be dealt with freely and openly by women; they
    must charm, they must conciliate, they must -- to put it bluntly
    -- tell lies if they are to succeed. Thus, whenever I felt the
    shadow of her wing or the radiance of her halo upon my page, I
    took up the inkpot and flung it at her.  She died hard.  Her
    fictitious nature was of great assistance to her.  It is far
    harder to kill a phantom than a reality.  She was always creeping
    back when I thought I had dispatched her.  Though I flatter myself
    that I killed her in the end, the struggle was severe; it too much
    time that had better have been spent upon learning Greek grammar;
    or in roaming the world in search of adventures.  But it was a
    real experience; it was an experience that was bound to befall all
    women writers at that time.  Killing the Angel in the House was
    part of the occupation of a woman writer.

    But to continue my story.  The Angel was dead; what then remained?
    You may say that what remained was a simple and common object -- a
    young woman in a bedroom with an inkpot.  In other words, now that
    she had rid herself of falsehood, that young woman had only to be
    herself.  Ah, but what is 'herself'?  I mean, what is a woman?  I
    assure you, I do not know.  I do not believe that you know.  I do
    not believe that anybody can know until she has expressed herself
    in all the arts and professions open to human skill.  That indeed
    is one of the reasons why I have come here -- out of respect for
    you, who are in process of showing us by your experiments what a
    woman is, who are in process of providing us, by your failures and
    successes, with that extremely important piece of information.

    But to continue the story of my professional experiences.  I made
    one pound ten and six by my first review; and I bought a Persian
    cat with the proceeds.  Then I grew ambitious.  A Persian cat is
    all very well, I said; but a Persian cat is not enough.  I must
    have a motor car.  And it was thus that I became a novelist --
    for it is a very good thing that people will give you a motor car
    if you will tell them a story.  It is a still stranger thing that
    there is nothing so delightful in the world as telling stories.
    It is far pleasanter than writing reviews of famous novels.  And
    yet, if I am to obey your secretary and tell you my professional
    experiences as a novelist, I must tell you about a very strange
    experience that befell me as a novelist.  And to understand it you
    must try first to imagine a novelist's state of mind.  I hope I am
    not giving away professional secrets if I say that a novelist's
    chief desire is to be as unconscious as possible.  He has to
    induce in himself a state of perpetual lethargy.  He wants life to
    proceed with the utmost quiet and regularity. He wants to see the
    same faces, to read the same books, to do the same things day
    after day, month after month, while he is writing, so that nothing
    may break the illusion in which he is living -- so that nothing
    may disturb or disquiet the mysterious nosings about, feelings
    round, darts, dashes and sudden discoveries of that very shy and
    illusive spirit, the imagination.  I suspect that this state is
    the same both for men and women.  Be that as it may, I want you to
imagine me writing a novel in a state of trance.  I want you to figure
    to yourselves a girl sitting with a pen in her hand, which for
    minutes, and indeed for hours, she never dips into the inkpot.
    The image that comes to my mind when I think of this girl is the
    image of a fisherman lying sunk in dreams on the verge of a deep
    lake with a rod held out over the water.  She was letting her
    imagination sweep unchecked round every rock and cranny of the
    world that lies submerged in the depths of our unconscious being.
     Now came the experience, the experience that I believe to be far
    commoner with women writers than with men.  The line raced through
    the girl's fingers.  Her imagination had rushed away.  It had
    sought the pools, the depths, the dark places where the largest
    fish slumber.  And then there was a smash.  There was an
    explosion.  There was foam and confusion.  The imagination had
    dashed itself against something hard.  The girl was roused from
    her dream.  She was indeed in a state of the most acute and
    difficult distress.  To speak without figure she had thought of
    something, something about the body, about the passions which it
    was unfitting for her as a woman to say.  Men, her reason told
    her, would be shocked.  The consciousness of what men will say of
    a woman who speaks the truth about her passions had roused her
    form her artist's state of unconsciousness.  She could write no
    more.  The trance was over.  Her imagination could work no longer.
     This I believe to be a very common experience with women writers
    -- they are impeded by the extreme conventionality of the other
    sex.  For though men sensibly allow themselves great freedom in
    these respects, I doubt that they realize or can control the
    extreme severity with which they condemn such freedom in women.

    These then were two very genuine experiences of my own.  These
    were two of the adventures of my professional life.  The first --
    killing the Angel in the House -- I think I solved.  She died.
    But the second, telling the truth about my own experiences as a
    body, I do not think I solved.  I doubt that any woman has solved
    it yet.  The obstacles against her are still immensely powerful --
    and yet they are very difficult to define.  outwardly, what is
    simpler than to write books?  Outwardly, what obstacles are there
    for a woman rather than for a man?  Inwardly, I think., the case
    is very different' she has still many ghosts to fight, many
    prejudices to overcome.  Indeed it will be a long time still, I
    think, before a woman can sit down to write a book without fining
    a phantom to be slain, a rock to be dashed against.  And if this
    is so in literature, the freest of all professions for women, how
    is it in the new professions which you are now for the first time
    entering?

    Those are the questions that I should like, had I time , to ask
    you.  And indeed, if I have laid stress upon these professional
    experiences of mine, it is because I believe that they are, though
    in different forms, yours also.  Even when the path is nominally
    open -- when there is nothing to prevent a woman from being a
    doctor, a lawyer, a civil servant -- there are many phantoms and
    obstacles, as I believe, looming in her way.  To discuss and
    define them is I think of great value and importance; for thus
    only can the labor be shared, the difficulties be solved.  But
    besides this, it is necessary also to discuss the ends and the
    aims for which we are fighting, for which we are doing battle with
    these formidable obstacles.  Those aims cannot be taken for
    granted; they must be perpetually questioned and examined.  The
    whole position, as I see it -- here  in this hall surrounded by
    women practicing for the first time in history I know not how many
    different professions =-- is one of extraordinary interest and
    importance.  You have won rooms of your own in the house hitherto
    exclusively owned by men.  You are able, though not without great
    labor and effort, to pay the rent.  You are earning your five
    hundred pounds a year.  But this freedom is only a beginning; the
    room is your own, but it is still bare.  It has to be furnished;
    it has to be decorated; it has to be shared.  How are you going to
    furnish it, how are you going to decorate it?  With whom are you
    going to share it, and upon what terms?  These, I think, are
    questions of the utmost importance and interest.  For the first
    time in history you are able to ask them; for the first time you
    are able to decide for yourselves what the answers should be.
    Willingly would I stay and discuss those questions and answers --
    but not tonight.  My time is up; and I must cease.
418.8NAVIER::SAISITue Oct 16 1990 16:532
    That's great Bonnie, thanks.
    	Linda
418.9thru the Historical Products ad in the New YorkerGEMVAX::KOTTLERTue Oct 16 1990 17:075
     .7 - thanks for entering that!
    
    Dorian (among whose proudest possessions is a Virginia Woolf
    T-shirt...)