[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference turris::womannotes-v3

Title:Topics of Interest to Women
Notice:V3 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:REGENT::BROOMHEAD
Created:Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1078
Total number of notes:52352

406.0. "Men Against War" by --UnknownUser-- () Fri Sep 28 1990 13:38

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
406.1EDIT::CRITZLeMond Wins '86,'89,'90 TdFFri Sep 28 1990 14:4721
    	I fought with the Marine Corps in Vietnam in 1967
    	and 1968. I was one of those naive, fight-for-your
    	country fools (my own definition). I would not say
    	my life was ruined by this experience, but it was
    	certainly changed. The news people came out and did
    	a piece on me at my father's home. They took pictures
    	of me cleaning a shotgun I used to own. This, of course,
    	is what people expect of their "boys" going off to war.
    
    	For the record, I own no firearms/weapons of any kind.
    
    	I believe WW II was the only fighting in this century
    	we were right to participate in. The rest was a big
    	waste of life, and for what?
    
    	War, as far as I'm concerned, should be the last option.
    	My judgment at the moment may also be prejudiced (some)
    	by Ken Burns' 11� hours on the Civil War (actually, the
    	Uncivil War, as Paul Harvey refers to it).
    
    	Scott (sorry for rambling) 
406.2F.D. RooseveltGEMVAX::KOTTLERFri Sep 28 1990 15:238
"I have seen war. I have seen war on land and sea. I have seen blood 
running from the wounded. I have seen men coughing out their gassed lungs. 
I have seen the dead in the mud. I have seen cities destroyed. I have seen 
200 limping, exhausted men come out of the line -- the survivors of a 
regiment of 1,000 that went forward 48 hours before. I have seen children 
starving. I have seen the agony of mothers and wives. I hate war."

406.4TINCUP::KOLBEThe dilettante debutanteFri Sep 28 1990 15:4225
        lis
	-ten
	you know what i mean when
	the first guy drops you know
	everybody feels sick or
	when you throw in a few gas
	and the oh baby shrapnel
	or my feet getting dim freezing or
	up to your you know what in water or
	with the bugs crawling right all up
	all everywhere over you all me everyone
	that's been there know what
	i mean a god damned lot of
	people don't ever and never
	never
	will know,
	they don't want

	to
	no
		    ee cummings

    Just for reference, eec volunteered as an amubulance driver long before
    the US became officially involved in WWII. He was injured and sent home
    but returned to drive again. liesl
406.5Friends and violenceGWYNED::YUKONSECLeave the poor nits in peace!Wed Oct 03 1990 12:23266
        I have excerpted these passages from the "Friends and Violence"
    pamphlet, because I think they show quite clearly that men are not
    *always* violent and war-mongering.  I have tried to remove most of
    the religious aspects of the pamphlet, except where to do so would 
    make the passage meaningless for lack of context.  I have done this
    for two reasons.  First, I do not want to offend anyone.  Second, I
    do not want the fact that the pamphlet is an informational pamphlet
    designed to answer questions about the Society of Friends to obscure
    the fact that nearly _all_ of its references are of *men* who worked
    for peace. 
    
    
         Reprinted with permission of Friends General Conference.
                                                                        
                           -------------------------
         
         	"Marjorie E. Nelson lived in Indiana as a child.  
         After receiving her MD degree from Indiana University Medical 
         School in 1964, she served as a physician on the hospital 
         ship USS Hope."
         
         	"Later she worked at the Quaker Rehabilitation Center 
         in Quang Ngai, South Vietnam with the American Friends 
         Service Committee team.  She was taken prisoner by the Viet 
         Cong while on visit to Hue and was released eight weeks 
         later."
                                           
                          ---------------------------
         
         
                             FRIENDS AND VIOLENCE
                                Marjorie Nelson
         
              "The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) began 
              in 17th century England during the time of turmoil 
              between Royalists and followers of Oliver Cromwell.  
              As the earliest Friends gathered in small groups at 
              individual homes rather than worshiping in the 
              churches of their day, they were often suspected of 
              plotting the overthrow of the government.  Thus, 
              Friends were moved to declare their position on 
              violence and armed conflict."
              
              	 "George Fox, founder of Quakerism, made strong 
              statements to the commonwealth and subsequently to 
              the crown regarding Friends' position on war.  In 
              1661 he told King Charles II in an often quoted 
              statement:
              
    
                 "We utterly deny all outward wars and 
                 strife and fightings with outward weapons, 
                 for any end or under any pretence 
                 whatsoever.  And this is our testimony to 
                 the whole world.  The Spirit of Christ, 
                 which leads us into all Truth, will never 
                 move us to fight and war against any man 
                 with outward weapons, neither for the 
                 kingdom of Christ, nor for the kingdoms of 
                 this world."
    
                 
                 
              	 "From the beginning then, we have clear 
              statements on Friends' position towards personal 
              violence or participation in war and the reasoning 
              for this.  Friends' testimony on violence is often 
              equated with refusal to bear arms or personally 
              inflict suffering on others, yet their opposition 
              to violence extends much further.  Living in a 
              society that accepts and supports institutionalized 
              violence presents one with a moral and spiritual 
              dilemma:  how does one discern and honor the 
              legitimate functions of government and also bear 
              witness against and resist those activities of 
              government which violate the ultimate loyalty of a 
              Christian to God's law and authority?"
              
              	 "During times of open conflict Friends have 
              often suffered heavily, sometimes from both sides, 
              for their neutrality and resistance to 
              participation in war.  During the American 
              Revolution, William Rotch, a leader of the Quaker 
              whaling community on Nantucket Island, was asked by 
              the Americans to give them some bayonets which had 
              been removed from muskets he had received in 
              repayment of a debt some years earlier.  William 
              Rotch refused, saying "I can put no weapons into a 
              man's hand to destroy another that I cannot use 
              myself in the same way."  He continued, "It made a 
              great noise in the country, and my life was 
              threatened...A short time after I was called before 
              a Committee appointed by the Court...and questioned 
              respecting my bayonets.  I gave a full account of 
              my proceedings and closed it with saying, 'I sunk 
              them in the bottom of the sea, I did it from 
              principle,...and if I am wrong I am to be pitied.'  
              The chairman of the Committee, Major 
              Hawley,...then...said, 'I believe Mr. Rotch has 
              given us a candid account, and every man has a 
              right to act consistently with his religious 
              principles, but I am sorry that we could not have 
              the bayonets, for we want them very much.'  The 
              Major was desirous of knowing more of our 
              principles on which I informed him as far as he 
              enquired.  One of the committee in a pert manner 
              observed 'then your principles are passive 
              Obedience and non-resistance.'  I replied, 'No, my 
              friend, our principles are active Obedience or 
              passive suffering.'""
              
              	 "That member of the Committee expressed a common 
              misconception that Quakers and other pacifists are 
              passive or non-resistant.  Rather than 
              inflict suffering on others, they accept the 
              suffering -- including government-imposed 
              penalties -- that frequently results from this 
              activity.  Such active obedience often takes forms 
              of refusal such as conscientious objectors' 
              refusing induction into armed forces or citizens' 
              refusing to pay war taxes, yet it also leads to 
              activities and programs designed to prevent or 
              ameliorate the suffering caused by war."
              
              	 "Thus, Friends Ambulance Units made up of 
              conscientious objectors operated behind the front 
              lines of two World Wars, insisting on the right to 
              help those in need on both sides of the conflict.  
              During World War I, British Friends formed an 
              emergency committee to befriend and shelter enemy 
              aliens stranded by the outbreak of war.  The 
              British Friends War Victims Relief Committee 
              undertook medical work, epidemic control and 
              feeding programs in France, Belgium, Yugoslavia, 
              Russia, Poland, and North Africa.  In 1919 this 
              group cooperated with the American Friends Service 
              Committee in a massive program of feeding children 
              and nursing mothers in war-devastated Germany 
              soughing from a merciless blockade imposed by the 
              Allies -- a blockade which continued seven months 
              after the armistice was signed.  Many German 
              children came to use *Quaker* as a verb meaning *to 
              feed*."
              
              	 "On December 2, 1938, shortly after the "Day of 
              Broken Glass," when Jews throughout Germany were 
              attacked and arrested, three Friends set sail from 
              New York to call on Hitler with a proposal for 
              emergency feeding and more rapid emigration of the 
              Jewish population.  One of them, Robert Yarnall of 
              Philadelphia, 14 years earlier had worked in the 
              "Quakerspeisung" in Germany.  Ultimately this trio 
              met with two chief officers of the Gestapo in the 
              headquarters of the German Secret Police.  After 
              hearing the Friends' proposal, the officers left to 
              consult with Richard Heydrich, the Chief of the 
              Gestapo, promising to return in half an hour.  
              Rufus Jones, chairman of the AFSC, later recounted 
              that "During this awesome period we bowed our heads 
              and entered upon a time of deep, quiet meditation 
              and prayer -- the only Quaker Meeting ever held in 
              the Gestapo!...It proved to be rightly ordered.  
              The two men returned at the announced time and the 
              leader said, 'Everything you have asked for is 
              granted.'"  Who knows but what the memory of the 
              "Quakerspeisung" of World War I may have touched 
              the minds of those men in their decision?"
                                                         ........
    
    There follows a brief description of Dr. Nelson's experience in Viet
    Nam, caring for casualties from both sides, which I have deleted.         
    
    ........
              	 "And yet, I also saw American GIs caring for 
              wounded Vietnamese in the hospitals.  On their days 
              off they would spend their time making equipment 
              for our patients to use in the rehabilitation 
              center.  I saw a young Vietnamese officer adopt a 
              little orphan amputee patients of ours although he 
              was no relative.  And in 1968, taken prisoner by 
              the NLF in the Tet Offensive, I experienced good 
              treatment and tender concern by "the enemy."  When 
              I fell ill with dysentery, a North Vietnamese 
              doctor walked for several hours through the 
              mountains to my camp to treat me.  The soldiers 
              collected from their meager belongings such things 
              as powdered eggs, a little sugar, and a can of 
              sweetened condensed milk which they gave me "to 
              help you regain your strength."  the cook of the 
              camp started rising at 4:00 A.M. to catch small 
              fish in the stream to supplement my rice and 
              vegetable diet.  No one else in the camp had meat.  
              Never in my life have I been more uplifted and 
              sustained by a sense of the power and loving 
              presence of God than in those two months in the 
              mountains of Central Vietnam.  Yes, throughout the 
              years, Friends have found repeatedly that reaching 
              out to "that of God" in others can be very creative 
              in situations of conflict and violence."
              
              	 "For example, as early as 1688 some Friends in 
              the colonies were distressed by the institution of 
              slavery and called upon Friends to free themselves 
              of involvement in it.  But slavery was deeply woven 
              into the fabric of colonial society.  Many Friends 
              not only owned slaves but were also involved in the 
              slave trade.  To be free of slave-holding and 
              trading would be financial ruin, some protested.  
              Others maintained that they treated their slaves 
              kindly so that it could not be wrong for them."
              
              	 "It was John Woolman, a Quaker minister from 
              Ranocacas, New Jersey, who was chiefly responsible 
              for awakening Friends to the need to clear 
              themselves of slave-owning.  As a young man, he was 
              asked by his employer to write a bill of sale for a 
              slave.  He wrote in his journal, "My employer, 
              having a Negro woman, sold her and directed me to 
              write a bill of sale...The thing was sudden, and 
              though the thoughts of writing an instrument of 
              slavery for one of my fellow creatures felt 
              uneasy...yet I remembered that I was hired by the 
              year, that it was my master who directed me to do 
              it, and that it was an elderly man, a member of our 
              Society who bought her; so through weakness I gave 
              way, and wrote it."  This resulted in his decision 
              to leave the business and travel extensively 
              throughout the colonies, visiting Friends and 
              others, speaking to them "in good will" that they 
              should be free of slave-holding.  On trips to the 
              South he took along a bag of silver with which he 
              paid Negro servants for their services when he 
              stayed with slave-owning hosts.  Although he 
              dreaded these embarrassing ceremonies, his 
              gentleness and obvious concern for both slave and 
              master enabled him to get through them without 
              angry arguments.  Many Friends became convinced 
              through this type of living ministry by Woolman and 
              other Friends.  This method says something very 
              important about Friends' approach to issues.  One 
              does not accept a belief or an action because it is 
              an article of faith or because some ecclesiastical 
              body has decreed such.  Rather it springs from 
              *convincement* -- an inner moving of the Spirit 
              which impels one to that position.  Woolman died in 
              1772 and did not live to see the Society of Friends 
              finally free of slave-holding in 1784 -- nearly 100 
              years after the concern was first raised.  Although 
              this was a slow and painful process, the Society of 
              Friends became the first religious body not only to 
              be free of the institutionalized violence of 
              slavery but also to advocate abolition as a 
              national policy."
    
    
    As can clearly be seen, 3 of the premier "heroes" of pacifism are men;
    obviously, not *all* men are pro-violence.