Conference turris::womannotes-v3

	I don't like the word "test."  It sounds like a competition, when
	in reality, for me, it's just a determination of attributes about
	the type of person that I like/is "good" for me.


	Basically.  I look for someone on the first date who doesn't
	comment incessantly on my physical attributes.  I look for someone
	who in genuinely interested in me and what *I* am saying when I'm
	talking.  There are very few times that I will date a person a
	second time if they're more than just innocently physical with me.
	Holding hands, a soft kiss goodnight, something like that are very
	innocent...and I like that.

	I didn't use to be like this (until VERY recently).  I like very
	romantic, very sensual partners....that's what I'm VERY attracted
	to.  Unfortunately, I've learned the hard way that those kind of
	people are more interested in my body and what it can do for
	them; rather than actually getting to know *ME*.

	Some people are just inherently sexual when I meet them....I'm
	drawn like a magnet (even tho the culmination of the sexual attraction
	rarely interests me).  I've learned the hard way that those are
	the kind of people that get me into TROUBLE, and hence I avoid them.

	Nothing like NIXing the kind of person I'm really attracted to, eh?


	(BTW, shouldn't this be a gender inspecific topic?)


	kath

    Julie-lynn,
    
    Just start having conversations with a man in this notesfile.  Then
    let the Yentas go to work!
    
    E Grace

    
    	Yentas???
    

    Yenta - Isn't Yenta the Matchmaker from Fiddler on the Roof?
    
    Julie-lynn
    

... because dating is not a priority in my life at present.

The 'test' as it were.  Do I like this person?
                        Does this person seem to like me?
                        Can I respect/value this person?
                        Does this person respect/value me?

No to any of the above and I probably won't/wouldn't spend time with him/her.
[it's a 'test' as it were for my relationships still]

When sex entered into it the questions were still pretty basic [still are]:
            Do I want this?
            Do I trust this person?
	    Are there others involved?
            How will I/they be affected?		

I never felt that someone was 'getting' something from me.  Probably 
because I look upon relationships as sharing rather than as giving/receiving

  Annie [the ego-centric]

    re .0, I guess I don't quite understand what you are complaining about? 
    What is it that's bothering you about some of the men you've been
    dating?  That they want to have sex by the 3rd or 4th date?????
    
    I'm confused.  (although I admit dating men can be very dissapointing a
    times...I guess we all have different things we're dissapointed by tho)
    
    Lorna

    I don't have a "test" per se,

    but when SEX looked like it might enter the picture, I've always
    thought that if you can't candidly feel comfortable sitting down and
    discussing: Birth Control, Aids, requiring a blood test if need be -
    and the person being willing to go take one, condoms, and what will
    happen if a pregnancy occurs, then I've felt it wasn't time for Sex to
    enter into the picture.

    I haven't dated in a while, but when I was, I used a tactic of not
    going out on a real date with anyone I hadn't had a chance to get
    to know a little bit in a group or other non-dating situation
    (class, work, mutual activity, or something like that).  So I had
    a little better feel for what kind of a person he was and he knew
    a little something about me as person, rather than as 'date'.
    
    After that, it was whether I thought we were on the same
    wavelength, in the broadest sense.  For instance, there were times
    when sex was what I was after, without emotional commitment.  I
    stopped going out with one very nice man who wanted more than I
    could give at the time.  
    
    --bonnie

    
    I don't think you should give anyone a test
    on the first date.  The FIRST date is just too
    traumatic for most people.  They're BOUND to mess
    up!  If you don't like their personality or they
    grope you (and that's not what you want), then
    I wouldn't see him again.  Other than that, I 
    don't think much can be figured out right away.
    So, if it's a relationship you want, then if you
    like the guy, keep dating him until you don't like
    him anymore.  If you don't like to be propositioned
    after 3 or 4 dates, then perhaps you should make that
    clear ahead of time, in some non-threatening way.  I
    don't think you should be upset if some guy tries to
    sleep with you after 3 or 4 dates.  I'd worry if they
    didn't try!
    
    Rachael
    

    I know that this note was probably not intended for a male response but
    I see somethings that might be helpful.  First I assume that a test is
    not the important thing but rather finding a compatible male.  Most of
    we humans envision a 'perfect' companion.  This companion would have
    certain characteristics that we feel would compliment our needs, desires
    etc.  We make a list.  Then we go about trying to match the list to a
    person.  For me this is the dating process.  The one thing that we
    often fail to do is look honestly at ourselves and ask 'What is it
    about me that would fulfill this perfect mate.  Would they see me as a
    'perfect' companion?'  If your honest answer is 'yes', your search will
    be short.  If your honest is 'no' it doesn't mean that you are a bad
    person, it means that you are mismatched with the people you are dating. 
    If you are offended by a male seducing you on the third or fourth date,
    remember that there is a mismatch.  Your needs are not matched to his. 
    So how do you know about someone you just met?  The answer is you
    can't.  What you can do is be friends.  If you want to be friends and
    he doesn't remember that there are others.  There are always others . .
    
    Patrick   

>> sleep with you after 3 or 4 dates.  I'd worry if they didn't try!

Why?  Afraid they might be non-functioning?

This really bugs me - once in a blue moon you find out why someone you went
on a couple dates with that you seemed to have a lot in common with wasn't
interested - seems this is the most frequent reason.  "But he didn't make
a pass!"

M

    Two points: It's hard to know what is considered acceptable dating
    behaviour.  You  can  understand  that  a man acting in good faith
    might  be  somewhat  confused  by  one woman complaining about his
    attempting  to  seduce  her  after 3 dates and another complaining
    that  he  didn't.  One  way  to deal with this is the half-hearted
    attempt which one hopes won't offend either side.

    The other  point  is  that  I  find  that  "tests"  are  generally
    irrelevant  to who my friends married. One friend insisted that he
    would  only  marry  (or  date)  a  woman who was younger than him,
    athletic,  and never married. He's now quite happily married to an
    older  divorced couch potato. When I asked him when he changed his
    requirements, he said "10 minutes after I met her."

    Almost all  my friends who got married did so only after giving up
    on  their  list  of  requirements.  Then they could see who really
    interested them.

--David

    re .11, well, when most men a woman has dated have made passes (at
    least verbally) on the first day (or *before* the first date!)  - at
    least that's been *my* experience - I certainly don't mean to speak for
    any of the women you've dated - anyway, if that *is* the case, then
    maybe you could understand why some women might assume that if a guy
    hasn't made a pass after the 3rd or 4th date, then he just isn't
    interested.  (or has something wrong with him or something....)
    
    Actually, I don't think I've ever dated anybody who didn't make a pass
    by the 3rd or 4th date....  That happens?  Wow.
    
    Lorna
    

Lorna, sure, I have been on dates with people who didn't make passes at
the third or fourth date...or at all.  They simply weren't the type to make
passes - more waiting to see what *I* wanted.  I've also dated people who
wanted to take things very slow...this isn't a trait unique to women.

Anyway, I don't really have a "test" for a second date, but my test for
whether to have sex with someone is very simple:

  - Do I trust this person?
  - Does this person turn me on?

That's that.

D!

    Julie-Lynn,
    
    I also think no test is reliable. Something that might help 
    though, and is necessary for safety, I think, is to stay in
    public places until you feel sure you can trust the person.
    
    Eileen  

    I did not have a test. But Over the years and through a few personal
    experiances I learned to look for behavior patterns. 
    
    The man I finally found and latched on to had many friends, married,
    single, with kids, without kids, most of them he had been friends with
    for years. They were family to him. In the getting to know him and his
    friends I found all the people had wonderful things to say about him
    behind his back and always teased him about his worst habits to his 
    face. He knew they loved him for who he was and he loved them knowing
    thier virtues and faults.
    
    I liked the way he talked about his family he showed respect for his
    parents even knowing thier faults and weaknesses and he always
    remembered thier special days. He may not send the card for six months
    but he always called on their birthday or anniversery. Some of his 
    family traditions are new and created for fun and giggles. This year
    a very funny book of cartoons was sent to one of the brothers with
    personal captions it is making the rounds of the brothers and sisters 
    with each birthday so each family can enjoy it.
    Thier were shades of this behavour when we did stuff together. We
    would see something in a store and he would say this is just perfect
    for -whoever- he would check the prise and if reasonable get it to 
    share with them. If it were not he would remember the object/joke/ 
    or book and tell them about it the next time he saw them.
    
    I called him one time and invited him to join me and my kids for a
    drive I planned to make or a picnic I planned to go on anyway and if
    he could join us wonderful(he never said no that I can remember).
    After the first few weekends we were comparing ideas about what we 
    were doing for the week end and seeing if we could match up our 
    activities and do someof them together. He worked swings and I worked 
    days so I didnt often see him except on snowdays(and there were a lot
    that year in January and Febuary)and weekends. Then he started to 
    come by everyso often during his lunch (aprox 7:30 to 8:15PM).
    
    By November I, who had sworn I would never trust a man relised that no
    other man had done what he had done and maintained his cool.
    He had been on camping trips and hiking trips and park outings and
    dropped off a child (not his own) to Girl Scout Camp. He had become
    my sounding board when I needed someone to say 'No I dont think you 
    were being to hard on him/her the behavior is unacceptable and you
    made that clear without beating her/him.'
    
    I needed to know that my partner could take care or learn to 
    take care of my children as well or better than me. He had a desire
    to learn. I made it real clear I would not have anymore children.
    At the time he accepted that. Later I changed my mind that was OK too.
    He asked questions about the children and how to care for them. He
    showed an interest in learning about them and getting to know them and
    often went out of his way to plan events specifically for thier
    enjoyment. They did not always get along but eventually they learned
    that he was not asking anymore than I expected from them and I would
    often be more insistant than he would about compliance. I wanted to be
    the strict disiplanrian when It came to the oldest because I realy felt
    that he would not have the opportunity to become friends if he had to
    enforce the rules. So we were careful as an adult couple to watch for
    discipline problems and he would sometimes point out a potential
    problem while out of earshot so I could watch for it and administer the
    warning and reenforse the rules. 
    These techniques we developed over time so that we could all go out
    and have a good time at doing whatever we were doing. It took some 
    ajustments on both sides. I would not discipline tired children for
    being tired and grouchy. We learned to have dinner before eight pm and
    do the driving afterwards( the kids would sleep in the car and could
    be taken to thier beds as soon as arriving at my home.)
    If we were at at restaurant at 9pm I would not guarrentee behavior and
    the kids if they became unrully at all were bundled up and taken home
    and we would end our outing.Taking the food home with us to finish of
    course. He felt that the rule of thumb was reasonable and was glad that
    I was able to find a compromise to fit both our schedules.
    
    In hind sight I looked for those attributes I would want in any
    family friend that I would have for the rest of my familys life and
    someone I would enjoy when the kids are grown and out on thier own.
    People who can be flexable and change camping plans just an hour 
    before leaving because chicken pox has hit with a vengance are few
    and far between. We did enough activities together for the tests to
    create themselves. Later I found out that he wanted someone who would
    love him and all his known foibles and would not be to disappointed
    that he could not change some things about who he was.
    
    I was just glad he could find humor in being stuck in a pop-up camper
    or tent with two fighting kids while the rain pours down around us
    and still maintain a sense of humour and tell me jokes or tell the 
    kids stories. 
    
    Create tests. No I think the activities that you do together should be
    diverse enough to create the situations that will be the tests.
    I do camping because I like camping. With kids its not so fun(more
    work than fun) but after they have done it a few times the fun showes
    up again and again for those moments that happen more and more often
    as the routine gets set. Now we are going more than once a summer
    and its not as much work as it used to be. He liked camping but
    never went by himself and never as a kid.
    Camping became something we wanted to do together. We learned a lot
    by trying to go with small children(one 6 and one 18 months). I also
    knew I could do anything with him as he was flexable and tolerant and 
    gental, and firm and would explain why to the children. I dont explain
    well and my patience level is hit easier that his tends to be.
    
    He also could teach me about my self by being who he was. I would 
    relise new things about myself when he would show Devin how to light
    a lantern. He kept Deven safly away but talked to him and explained 
    every thing he was doing and why the lantern worked the way it did.
    I would have screamed timeout(I used saftey timeouts when I opened my
    oven as it was right in the hall of my apartment so when I had to do 
    something I would hollar "timeout" and everyone was to sit right where 
    they were til I closed the oven) So If I am doing something out in 
    an open space and wanted them not to come near I would hollar "timeout"
    and they dropped to sit and I could light the fire or whatever and know
    that they were not sneaking up on me and getting to close. Steve took
    the time to explain why and what he was doing. Something I had not had
    time to do before (Its not easy being the only one around two
    youngsters) So I had gotten out of the habit of explainging things to 
    my 18 month old.
    
    I quess he and I were made for each other
    I know he was what I wanted/needed and he still lets me see who I 
    want to become and loves me where I am now.
    
    I find more reasons to love and respect him every day
    Janet  
    

    
    re: test.  Is it written, oral, true-false or multiple questions?
    please forward a copy to me if possible. thanx, jim
    

    hey, if it is multiple choice and/or true-false, then i should
    do pretty good on it!
    
    jonathan (who did very well on silly tests like the SATs)