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Conference turris::womannotes-v3

Title:Topics of Interest to Women
Notice:V3 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:REGENT::BROOMHEAD
Created:Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1078
Total number of notes:52352

385.0. "Being the daughter of aging parents." by ASHBY::FOSTER () Mon Sep 17 1990 17:52

    Mom had surgery this summer. She lives 9 hours away from me, 11 hours
    from my other sister. One of us, luckily, is nearby, but has 2 kids, a
    full-time job and a full-time marriage to keep her busy.
    
    It was hard to watch from afar. It makes me want to move home.
    
    Dad had surgery on Friday. He lives in the same town as mom. One sister
    took him to the hospital, the other two watched from afar.
    
    My mother's mother passed away a few years ago. She had lived with us
    off and on, but prefered to be in Massachussetts. So, my uncle, who
    also lives in Massachussetts, had her put in a home.
    
    P.D. James wrote a recent novel in which each of the two protagonists
    have elderly parents who need care. The woman must allow her mother to
    move in with her. The man, who lives below his father, is asked how he
    would cope with a similar situation: "Oh, I expect my sister would move
    back from Australia and stay with her."
    
    The idea of such a disparity in how a man and a woman would deal with 
    their aging parents hit home kinda hard for me. I think, additionally,
    its hard to have your energies split if your parents live seperately,
    and both need care and support.
    
    I'd like this topic to focus on experiences of being the daughter of
    aging parents, how it may differ from being "the son of", what its like
    when one or both parents are alone, and the feeling that comes up, for
    some of us, of not being able to do enough.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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385.1some thoughtsGWYNED::YUKONSECLeave the poor nits in peace!Mon Sep 17 1990 18:2519
    ASHBY::FOSTER,
    
    I can understand exactly how it feels to be the daughter of aging
    parents.  As most of this community know, my parents are in their
    mid 70s and very poor health.  My Dad is suffering from Diabetes,
    Cirrhoses, etc., etc..  Mom had two heart attacks last Summer/Fall.
    My father just got out of the hospital on Friday, but I don't know
    how long he will last.  My mother is an active alcoholic, which really
    does not do her heart condition any good.  It is painful to see their
    deterioration, knowing that about it I can do nothing.  I live just
    1/2 hour from them, so I do try to see them at least once a week.  I
    would go more, but it is difficult for me to be around my mother when
    she is drunk.
    
    I don't know if it is different for my brother.  He is a tad sensitive,
    and my father is amazingly insensitive, so right now my brother is not
    speaking with him any more than is necessary.  Sigh.
    
    E Grace  
385.2exCOOKIE::CHENMadeline S. Chen, D&SG MarketingMon Sep 17 1990 20:1855
    
    Watching my father age was not difficult.  Except for his final
    illness, he was always strong, independant and never wanted to live
    with anyone except a spouse.  There were a couple of incidents, though
    which might merit discussion here:
    
    At age 76, my father became concerned that he might be losing his
    memory.  He had several incidents that might lead one to believe he was
    "senile".  (please be aware that I lived in Massachusetts at the time,
    my sister in Chicago, my brothers in Texas and my father in Iowa).
    
    My brothers both agreed that we needed to "commit" my father.   I
    and my sister wanted to know more.  I convinced him to check into a
    hospital in Chicago (where my sister lives), and to get a *complete*
    physical - and to take the contents of his medicine chest with him.
    I wanted to make sure there was no physically correctable condition
    that might cause him to 'lose it'.  Well, his physical turned up
    several drug mixtures (all prescribed by his physician) that caused his
    memory lapses, along with the fact that he occasionally had a martini
    after his golf games.  A rather simple change in his prescription drugs 
    "cured" his senility.  This was a God-send, because to my father, a
    "home" was not a place to live, but a place to die.
    
    There was one other situation that highlights the difference between my
    brothers and myself in our attitudes towards parental care.  That is
    when my father died.   This is difficult to type, so bear with me...
    
    My dad had just married his third wife - they were going to Mexico on a
    honeymoon, but Dad had some digestive problems which my sister and I
    convinced him should be taken care of before taking off south of the
    border.  Diagnosis after surgery was cancer of the pancreas, and the
    prognosis was less than a year to live.
    
    Dad had few requests - one was that his new bride be taken care of
    financially, and the other was that he NOT DIE IN A HOSPITAL.  Twice in
    the following 4 months my brothers tried to have him hospitalized -
    this was a difficult time for all of us.   I think that they thought
    that if Dad were in a hospital, then he couldn't just die? I am not
    sure.   
    
    Anyway, 3 1/2 months after the diagnosis, I took my children to visit 
    Grandpa for the last time, and I stayed - it was obvious the end was
    near.  The time was sad but not tragic.  We talked for two weeks, day
    and night, about all the important things in his life, and mine (funny
    how work wasn't mentioned much).  He died, happy and at home, at age
    80.   My brothers came for the funeral, but missed the last good-bye.  
    I feel sorry for them.  No matter how much work taking care of an aging 
    parent might be, that [old] person is still your parent... and the
    person who misses caring for or just visiting with their parent(s),
    misses a great deal for the rest of their lives.
    
    I really am not sure if my brothers feel they missed anything - but I'm
    just glad I didn't.
    
    -m
385.3I Was Until The EndHENRYY::HASLAM_BACreativity UnlimitedMon Sep 17 1990 20:3175
    Up until my mother died of Alzheimer's this past February, I was
    the daughter responsible for her care.  Mother was a widow, so I
    didn't have any of the problems you are experiencing with two parents
    who live separately.  It must be tough!
    
    Although I have a sister who lives in Houston, I agreed to be the
    sole care provider.  Both my sister and I had trouble coping with
    my mother's "I'm a victim" attitudes, but they affected my sister
    far more (which is why I offered to be her provider).  When I finally
    brought Mother to Utah, she was about 70.  It was a major shock to her,
    but she seemed to understand that it couldn't be helped and tried
    to adjust.  Since I work, go to school and have a family, my time
    was severly limited; however, I spent alternating weekends picking
    her up and bringing her home to spend time with my family.  We went
    on picnics, had family meals, and celebrated holidays and special
    events with her.  I would also take her for long drives to see the
    scenery.  As her disease progressed, she became more oblivious to
    her surroundings and the purpose of why we did what we did.  At
    that point, the kids began avoiding being around her.  They said
    it was too hard to handle.  
    
    Mother was in adult foster care for two years before she had to
    be moved to an intermediate care facility.  Once she was at that
    point, I only brought her home for holidays.  Otherwise, I took
    her to lunch several times, and would drop in unexpectedly and visit
    for short periods of time during the week and sometimes on weekends.
    By this time, no one else would visit her, so I was a solo act.
    (I had promised her that I would see to her care when she first
    discovered she had the disease, so she could ease her mind.  It
    was especially hard since I couldn't stand my mother, but I did
    the best I could for her.) 
    
    Mother's last few weeks were a nightmare.  She looked totally
    pathetic--only someone who has seen the end results of Alzheimer's
    could truly understand the horror of this disease.  I had moved
    her during the last few weeks of her life to a much better care
    facility a friend had recommended.  My estranged husband went along
    for moral support, but ended up breaking down and crying when he
    saw her condition.  I lifted her body from the wheelchair to my
    car, and drove her to her new residence.  She was terrified and
    kept babbling incoherently with occasional understandable words
    mixed in.  I talked to her and tried to calm her as I drove.  When
    we arrived at our destination, I lifted her back into a wheelchair
    and ended up trying to be supportive of my husband and still deal
    with Mother's needs.  
    
    The new facility was about 20 miles from my house, but I drove it
    about twice a week for the remaining three weeks until she died.
    How did it feel being the daughter of an aged parent?  Not good.
    It was a job that had to be done by someone, and even though I was
    definitely not the person my mother would have preferred, I tried
    to do the best I could.  I felt pity, compassion, anger, bitterness,
    acceptance, patience, impatience, guilty, guilty for feeling guilty,
    tired, aching for her, supportive, caring, and various other feelings.
     Sometimes the feelings were separate, sometimes all mixed up together.
    I also felt a saddened but overwhelming relief when it was at last
    over.  It was relief that Mother finally could find some peace,
    and relief that I no longer had to watch the humiliation that is
    Alzheimer's.
    
    The lesson that I learned?  Sometimes doing what is the right and
    responsible thing to do can be a form of love too.  It was the only
    thing I could offer her.  In return, near the end when her mind
    was virtually gone, she gave me a gift.  It was one of the only
    times in her life that she ever credited me with doing something
    without comparing me to my sister.  She knew it was me, the least
    favorite daughter, who was there for her in the end.
    
    I don't know if this is what you were looking for in answers, but
    it is the way that it happened for me.  You and your family have
    my support.
    
    Warmest Thoughts,
    Barb
     
385.456860::WOODWARDYet Another Writing Newbie (YAWN)Tue Sep 18 1990 16:3059
I am the daughter of aging parents too. Not only am I the daughter, I am the
youngest and the only unmarried member of the family.  Those factors make me the
most available member of the family to care for my parents.  

For a while, I moved to Colorado.  (Mom and Dad live in Massachusetts.) It was
while I was in Colorado that I realized just how important my parents are.

I've always catered to my parents. There's nothing I wouldn't do for them. They
hung the moon as far as I'm concerned, and I can't begin to pay them back for
their love and support.  

When I moved to Colorado, it didn't take too long to find that I'd made the
wrong move.  I missed my parents dearly and wished I could help them from 2000
miles away.  I remember when my father fell down the stairs and broke his back
and 5 ribs.  My mom didn't tell me till I called home. He'd been in the hospital
for 3 days before I found out.  I cried for feeling so helpless. I was angry
that my family didn't let me know.  It shook me to be so far away. I made  plane
reservations as soon as I could to Boston.  

I moved back from Colorado this June.  I live 2 hours from Mom and Dad again.
I've found that even now, now that I'm within commuting distance, I still get
that helpless feeling.  I can't be there all the time, and I can't do 
*everything* for them. For example, my parents procrastinate making Doctor
appointments unless it's a dire emergency.  I've been bugging my father to have
his leg checked. I can see symptoms of poor circulation in his leg.  But he
won't see a doctor.  I can't *make* him go.  

It's hard seeing my folks get older.  I want to make these years their best.
Anything I can do for them is a small sacrifice.

Kathy

P.S.
In the Parkinson's newsletter, I found a poem that was really touching:

Today I Will Be You 
              -- Jane Logan

I'll sit by the window as you often do, 
and struggle in vain to untie my shoe.
My hands are now shaking, my throat is near dry
as I fight the frustration and try not to cry.
The day is just ending...I'll sit down and eat,
please God hold me steady as my hand cuts my meat!

It soon will be time to bathe and undress
and get ready to watch President Reagan's address.
The water is running, you've laid out my clothes...
it hurts me so deeply to have to impose.
Oh how I hate to call you again, 
though I know you do pray, I'll be well again.

I know I'm a bother, I know you need rest
but truly believe me, I do do my best!
If I could just thank you for all that you've done,
I'd wrap up the sunset and give you the sun.
I'll get well I promise, the cure is near,
be brave with me sweetheart, there is nothing to fear!

385.5LEZAH::BOBBITTwater, wind, and stoneTue Sep 18 1990 16:538
    There was a long article in a recent magazine (time? newsweek?) which
    discussed "The daughter track", and how many women would spend
    thirty-something years of their life either raising their chldren, or
    caring for their parents.  Does anyone know if this article is
    available online somewhere?
    
    -Jody
    
385.6FSHQA1::AWASKOMTue Sep 18 1990 17:0430
    I'm the oldest daughter, the one who is single, the one who doesn't
    have infant/toddler age children, the one who still professes the faith
    my parents live.  (Rereading that, my folks had 3 daughters, so sex may
    not be as big a factor as the other stuff.)
    
    My mom died three years ago, after about 18 months of illness.  One
    sister lives in Colorado and had a baby just 2 months before Mom died. 
    She really couldn't help.  The other sister lives locally, but for some
    reason she is the one in the family who marches to a different drummer.
    She and Mom just tended to rub each other the wrong way, in spite of
    good intentions and lots of love.  They just always seemed to put the
    worst connotation on what was said between them, rather than the best.
    
    So I did most of the 'visit and help Mom' stuff.  Gave my Dad weekends
    off to go do something he wanted, like ski with his grandson. :-)  Make
    sure she got strawberries that final spring.  Read to her and talk to
    her.  And then give the 'straight scoop' to my sisters, 'cause they
    didn't trust Dad to tell them what was going on.  And interpret across
    the chasm that the differences of religious faith were causing.  Not
    always fun stuff, but what a sense of joy and peace and love I felt,
    returning some of the caring and support that had flowed out to me over
    the years of my life.
    
    All I can say is that I expect my Dad to go by falling off the side of
    a mountain.  And I hope he does; selfishly 'cause I'll probably be the
    one to have to provide the care again, and this time around it would be
    much harder, unselfishly because it would mean that he checked out
    while doing the things he loves, still active and on-the-go.
    
    Alison 
385.7SHAPES::SMITHS1Wed Sep 19 1990 05:069
    
    Some of the stories here and especially the poem in .4 brought tears to
    my eyes.  I'm 21 and my parents are still fit, healthy and in their
    50's, but I know that if the time ever comes when they need care, I
    will be the one out of the three of us to give it.  I just hope I can
    be as good and brave as all of you.
    
    Sam
    
385.8BTOVT::THIGPEN_Sridin' the Antelope FreewayWed Sep 19 1990 09:3818
    me too.  We've had fairly minor brushes in my family, and it is awful. 
    My heart goes out to you who have been there, and I hope I can manage
    with some amount of grace when the issue comes to me in earnest.
    
    Where I'm at is dealing with how my parents deal with it.  Right now,
    my dad has fainting spells of unknown origin (neurological? who knows?)
    and he has fallen and hurt himself more than once.  He is fairly
    straightforward with me about it but my mom is turning into an
    information-hider.  She refused to take his condition seriously for a
    long time -- for instance, insisting that he could go on driving! --
    and even now, if they are both on the phone when I ask she will quickly
    squelch the answer to any question.  She also has a horror of becoming
    dependent on her children, and of the (as she sees it) inescapable
    descent into senility.  Maybe there's some denial in her attitude about
    my dad.  I'm having trouble not getting REALLY REALLY MAD AT HER.
    
    sigh.  sorry for the ramblings.  thanks for all who have noted here, I
    think it helps me.
385.9The bottom line will always be that I love them.ASHBY::FOSTERWed Sep 19 1990 10:1339
    
    re .8
    
    Your mom sounds kinda like my mom, at least in terms of the
    independence. My mom doesn't try to hide information, but she has a
    really hard time admitting when she needs help. But she's slower than
    she used to be, and now that she's had hip replacement surgery, she
    can't do MANY things she'd like. She can't lift more than 10 lbs.
    Imagine what its like to bring in the groceries! One bag at a time...
    
    The one thing that I'm working to get good at is to anticipate every
    need and "just do it".  I'm learning to say "when was the last time you
    did X?" and then doing it, instead of saying "would you like me to do X?"
    which makes her feel incapable and depresses her.
    
    With my dad its a lot harder, because he doesn't care that he's slow.
    He came to visit me and I took him out to lunch one day. I had 30
    minutes - we took close to 1-1/2 hours. I've learned to anticipate that
    the pace will just drop when he's around. He doesn't believe in
    hurrying. (He's retired!) His eyesight is failing as well; I think
    that's the one thing that he's really sensitive about, because he loves
    to read and play cards. It gets harder as his sight goes. I really wish
    they put more science fiction on "books on cassette". For now, I just
    watch to see how he does things and try not to put him in positions
    where he's trying to do something that requires better vision than he
    really has.
    
    I guess the main point for me is to remember how much I love and
    cherish my parents. I think about all they've done for me, all the love
    they've given me, how they worked to let me go to private school and to
    pay for college. How they've come through for me financially when I
    couldn't make it on my own. And the tons of moral support they've
    dredged up from seemingly bottomless pits. Not to mention putting up
    with my long, bitchy adolescence that lasted at least 5-8 years longer
    than it should have.
    
    I think about all of this, and I feel that setting limits on what I'd
    do in an emergency is unthinkable. I'll do all that I can to be there
    for them. Because that's what they've done for me.
385.10I'm trying to cope with an aging motherCSG002::PWHITEI've moved to PDMWed Sep 19 1990 10:5696
    I am struggling with an aging mother whose mental state is
    deteriorating.  I am still uncertain just how much is failing
    memory, etc., and how much is her giving up on life.  My father
    died six years ago after a long illness.  During his last year
    my mother cared for him and went nowhere except to buy groceries
    and to take him to doctors.  She lost touch with friends who
    used to play tennis with them.  Other friends died or moved.
    
    My mother lives in Gainesville, Georgia.  I live in Massachusetts,
    my sisters in Indiana, California, and Osnabruck, Germany.  This
    summer Mother had several crises, including an automobile accident
    she caused.  I flew to Georgia to deal with that and go to court
    with her.  I told my sister in Indiana that it was her turn the
    next week, and she went.  My youngest sister from Germany also
    visited in July, and helped her find her car which she had lost
    at a shopping center.
    
    We were all appalled at the conditions in which Mother now lives.
    She isn't doing housework or mowing the lawn.  She has dropped 
    out of the volunteer Red Cross work she did for several years
    after Daddy died.  She says that she still goes on blood drives,
    but the Red Cross told me they had to ask her to stop because 
    she always got lost and she was making mistakes on the forms.  
    There was not much edible food in the house, and when she tried
    to cook dinner for me, she produced chicken burned on the outside,
    and raw inside.  The meat had started to turn bad.  She used to be 
    an excellent cook.

    In August I learned that she had bad cataracts in both eyes, and
    failed the license renewal.  She was going to have surgery down
    there, but I knew she could not follow directions for medication.
    I drove to Georgia and brought her and her cat back with me.  She's
    had surgery in one eye and will stay with me until the second eye
    is done and healed.  My sisters and I want to persuade her to move
    to elder housing near one of us.  She insists that she can take
    care of herself.  I think that she is unaware of services for the
    elderly and unwilling to ask for help from strangers.  I am using
    services for her.  The town nurses are giving her eye drops during
    the day.  Today a volunteer driver service is taking her to a 
    meeting of the "60 Plus Club" at the elder center in town.  
    
    Before her surgery, my mother had not seen a doctor since my sister
    was born 47 years ago.  She was required to have a physical to
    ensure that anesthesia would not be dangerous.  I asked that doctor
    about her mental state, but apparently it is hard to judge in one
    visit.  My mother also has an habit of playing helpless to get
    sympathy or help.  It was hard for me or the doctor to tell 
    when she didn't remember and when she was just being "cute and
    helpless".  She even asked me her own birth date.
    
    After 3 weeks staying with me, eating a balanced diet, and being
    dragged along with me to shopping, church, a SWE meeting, and two
    political fund raisers, she seems more mentally competent.  At
    least she has something to talk about besides our childhood.  I
    insist on her helping with dishes, laundry, and cooking.  She is
    also voluntarily weeding my stone wall and garden.  I conclude
    that if she had a life with activities and interests, she might
    be able to go on living alone with some housekeeping services.
    
    If she goes back to Georgia, she won't do that.  My father was 
    always dominating and in control.  Mother does not know how to
    live without someone telling her what to do.  She gets her way 
    by helplessness, manipulation, and martyr poses.  She's 
    probably too old to become an assertive direct person.  
    Incidentally, it drives me crazy to live with a person who 
    never makes a direct request, and never makes a decision for 
    herself. 

    My sisters are inclined to leave the problem to me until I
    insist on help.  My mother tends to assume that since I am
    single, I am the one to take her in.  Actually, sister Barbara
    has more time, since her children are grown and she does not 
    have a paid job.  My sisters want to put Mother in some kind of 
    congregate housing with paid staff to take care of her.  Besides 
    the fact that these places are very expensive, at least in 
    Massachusetts, they are not what Mother would want.  They don't 
    take pets, and she loves her cat.

    None of us got along very well with Mother during teen and adult
    years.  She had a habit of comparing us, always to the 
    disadvantage of the one being spoken to.  I heard so much about
    grandchildren that I felt criticized for not producing any.
    Barbara heard about our careers and got the message that she
    had wasted her mind and education by staying home with children.
    Etc.  Decisions are made more difficult by these relationships.
    
    I am sad about her failing capacity, irritated by her mental
    games, impatient with her stubbornness, fearful that the 
    problem may be inherited (her father and grandmother both
    became senile).  It is easier for me to be charitable and
    sympathetic when I am away from her than when she is getting
    in the way as I rush to prepare for work.
    
    It isn't easy.  
    
    Pat
385.11WRKSYS::STHILAIREFood, Shelter & DiamondsWed Sep 19 1990 12:0739
    I also have an aging mother.  She is 77 yrs. old and has been in a very
    nice nursing home for the past 3 yrs.  She was in perfect health, both
    mentally and physically, until 3 1/2 yrs. ago when, at the age of 74,
    she had a brain aneurysm (a major blood vessel burst in her brain)
    while she was shopping in a K-Mart Store (sometimes life can be very
    tacky-Can you imagine dying in a K-Mart Store?).  Something like 90% of
    all people (of all ages) who have brain aneurysms die within 48 hrs.,
    but somehow her body survived.  However, she has been completely senile
    ever since it happened.  It's very tragic.  A lot of people say now
    that she acts like she had Alzheimer's Disease, but before the aneurysm
    she was as alert mentally as she had ever been and all of a sudden she
    was completely senile.  She had always been a very independent person
    and had almost never been sick in her life.  She was the one who always
    took care of other people; not vice versa.  I have found it very
    difficult to truly comprehend what happened to her.  I go to visit her
    and it is her body and face, but the mother I always knew is just as
    completely gone as if she had died.  I realize that I had always
    thought of people as being either alive or dead.  I had never before
    contemplated having to deal with someone who is just a shell of the
    person they once were, still there in body and completely gone in mind.  
    
    Since my brother and myself are her only children, we had no choice but
    to put her in a nursing home.  My brother is single, lives alone and
    works a fulltime job.  I am divorced, live with roommates and have a
    teenaged daughter.  It was impossible to leave her unattended because
    she was doing crazy things that endangered herself and the property. 
    She needs *fulltime* supervision.  
    
    It's very sad.  I think my father was luckier.  Thirteen yrs. ago, at
    the age of almost 76, he fell over dead with a heart attack.  One
    minute he was alive and mentally alert, and 5 mins. later he was gone. 
    I know he would have preferred it that way, and I know my mother would
    have, too, but she wasn't as lucky.
    
    I have found adjusting to losing my parents and living without them to
    be the hardest thing in my life.
    
    Lorna
    
385.12Somber future...DUGGAN::MAHONEYWed Sep 19 1990 12:2214
    WE WILL ALL BE SENILE TOO... SOMEDAY
    Are we confortable with what we expect of our children?
    Will we get it?
    Who will take care of those senile folks with no children who had a
    marvelous career when young but a very shunk s.security check when 
    old? no visits from family?
    
    It is not a rosy perspective.....
    lets do the BEST we can for our older parents and hope our kids will
    do same for us....
    
    I have a wish, better die than see myself in a nursing home instead
    of in any of my children's homes.... never mind how WELL taken care of,
    noney or professional care can not give family love and warmth.		
385.13WRKSYS::STHILAIREFood, Shelter & DiamondsWed Sep 19 1990 13:2056
    re .12, I really resent some of your comments.
    
    First of all, we will not *all* be senile someday.  Some of us will
    drop dead quickly of heart attacks or will die suddenly in accidents,
    and some of us will not live to be old enough to ever become senile. 
    This is certainly a sobering thought, too, isn't it?  However, only
    a percentage of people become senile, though it is very sad for them.
    
    The comment I resent is your assertion that you would rather be dead
    than have to be in a nursing home instead of with your children.  Since
    you placed this reply right after my reply where I stated that my
    mother is in a nursing home, I take it personally.  
    
    I honestly feel that until you have had to deal with taking care of a
    person who is completely senile you have no idea what it entails.  My
    brother is single, and works a fulltime job as an assembly worker.  He
    is not a college graduate and doesn't have a high paying career.  My
    mother chose to give him her house, every stick of furniture in it, and
    the acres of land it sits upon.  He tried to take care of her at home
    for a few months when she was first out of the hospital.  It was
    impossible.  As I stated she needed full time supervision.  What was he
    supposed to do with her while he was at work?  It's a wonder she didn't
    burn the house down.  For awhile he was paying a nursing student $10.50
    an hour to watch her while he worked.  He only makes about $14.00 an
    hour himself, and he stands to inherit no money from my mother.  All of
    her money went to get her into the nursing home.
    
    Here are some of the things my mother did while she was at home.  Once
    she said she was going to do the dishes and she took them all and
    dumped them into the toilet.  Another time she went into the bathroom,
    took out her false teeth, wrapped toilet paper around them and crammed
    the whole thing in her mouth.  Another time she turned on the stove to
    heat some water and forgot about it.  He found it before a fire had
    started thankfully.  Another time she walked off down the street (the
    nursing student being paid $10.50 an hour hadn't noticed she had
    wandered off!), walked into a strangers home and yelled at them to "Get
    out!" of her house.  My brother and a helpful neighbor found her there,
    tried to calm the people in the house, and forcefully bring my mother
    home.  Another time she stood out by the side of the road for an hour,
    refusing to come in, saying that she was waiting for a bus.  There has
    never been a bus on that street.  Another time she thought my brother
    was her husband and tried to get him to have sex with her.  Another
    time, when I was over, she didn't realize I was her daughter and
    thought I should date my brother.  She thought we would make a cute
    couple.  Half the time she doesn't know who we are, how old she is, or
    where she is.  Her mind is gone, shot to hell.  Family love is not real
    meaningful to her now since most of the time she doesn't know us from
    Adam.  Do you get the picture?  It's not as though my brother were
    married and had several children and people home all day to care for
    her.  
    
    We visit her, we love her and we miss her, but we cannot afford to quit
    our jobs to stay home and watch her all day.  
    
    Lorna
    
385.14PENUTS::JLAMOTTETake a Hike...join the AMCWed Sep 19 1990 13:5540
    re .12, based on real experience I think that your bias on nursing
    homes comes from a prejudice that many people have.  There is a general
    feeling that only the unloved elderly need this care.  From what I have
    read the real sadness is in the elderly that are kept in their
    children's home, resented by their sons and daughters, abused verbally
    and physically and have had their financial resources depleted by the
    children that 'love' them.
    
    Nursing home care is often the best solution for the elderly who are
    becoming senile.  There are a variety of behaviors that are attributed
    to senilty.  The stimulus and activity in a nursing home can eleviate
    some of the symptoms.  Physical exercise and good nutrition also help
    with memory problems.
    
    What shook me for a loop was I was not prepared for the responsibility.
    As Lorna says, not all of us will have to think about it.  So I didn't
    think about it.
    
    Mother lives in congregate housing in Concord, MA.  It is an excellent
    location and run by great people.  She pays a 1/4 of her income in
    rent, she can purchase weekday lunches for $1.50 and has a variety of
    activities that are held in the building.  The social worker that
    manages the congregate housing is also the tenant advocate and will put
    people in contact with needed services.
    
    I have assumed responsibility for any needs that cannot be met by the
    services she receives.  I take her to the doctor, manage her checkbook,
    take her on errands, etc.  I call her once a day.  All in all it takes
    me at least 8 hours a week to do what is necessary.  And Mother does a
    lot for herself.  She is not demanding and is extremely appreciative.
    
    I am terrified of the next administration.  There are several
    legislators that feel that they can reduce Medicare costs by putting
    the burden of eldercare on the children.  
    
    If I were to think of the future and what it might hold for me, I think
    I might go over the edge.
    
    Right now I have a loving, happy elder person that I care for and
    support.  I am *very* lucky!
385.15feelings, not factsVAXUUM::KOHLBRENNERWed Sep 19 1990 13:5940
    RE: .11, .12, .13
    
    Hi Lorna,
    
    Because of some recent losses that I've had, I think I'm 
    tuned to hearing losses in what people say, and in hearing
    the feelings connected with the losses.  It seems to me that
    your message in .11 was about the feelings, the sadness, of
    that loss.  You gave us enough facts to know what the nature
    of the loss is.     The reply in .12 addresses the facts, and
    is a kind of reality check on what we can expect, from that
    noter's perspective.      Your reply in .13, sounds like me
    sometimes, when I want to say, "yeah, I know, I face that
    reality all the time, I may see it a little differently than
    you, but please don't lecture me about the reality.  Did you
    hear the sadness in my voice, did you hear me say how this is
    the hardest thing I have ever done?  Did you hear me say that
    this is the worst betrayal that ever happened to me?  That my
    base sense of security got blown away by this? etc..."
    
    When I was in the pits of my loss, I sought out some other 
    people who had losses and we got together for an hour a day,
    with the express purpose of not trying to "solve each other's
    problems," or "cheer each other up", but simply to express our
    sense of loss.  That meant a lot of saying how we felt, with
    much crying, but with a sense of being heard by others who knew
    where I was, and in no way judged, or prodded, or explained.
    They just ** heard me **.  That made an enormous difference in
    the rest of the day.  I found that I could laugh at things 
    without feeling guilty!  I could be joyful, without such a
    sudden yank back into the sadness of the loss.  I could be
    interested in other people, I could get out of myself, out
    of my own misery.            And at times, I could look forward
    to the next meeting of the "Grievers" as we called ourselves,
    knowing that it was a place where I could let down into wherever
    I needed to let down into.
    
    Lorna, I can hear your sense of loss. 
    
    Bill
385.16WRKSYS::STHILAIREFood, Shelter & DiamondsWed Sep 19 1990 14:284
    re .15, thank you for your reply.  I really appreciate it.
    
    Lorna
    
385.17A feeling, not a factDUGGAN::MAHONEYWed Sep 19 1990 14:4222
    FEELINGS...NO FACTS...
    Thank you for expressing it so well.  When I wrote my answer I was
    writing my OWN FEELINGS... and not anyone else's facts.
    
    I again state my own feelings of my answer. I come from a very very
    close family, where we share everything, I am separated from my family
    (a half a world of distance) and I know how much my father miss me and
    I do miss him. I've gone to visit him at times twice a year for just a
    week at a time and that is a tremendous expense that I only too glad to
    make when I see how much MY VISIT means to him...
     
    Now that I married and have grown children I have that very same
    feelings for them, I live for my family and... I say again, I'd prefer
    to die to see me separated from them... that is my honest, down to the
    heart, feeling.  Nothing is farther from my mind than to hurt anybody's
    facts, or doings, or whatever.  Every family, every person, is
    different and we are not judging any actions. (There is always a reason
    behind every action... that others don't have to know nor judge...only
    the doer does know it).  Please allow some space to other cultures and
    customs... not every part of the world know what a "nursing home" is
    and not everybody knows its benefits and or liabilities...
    
385.18A kinder, gentler old age? No!CUPMK::SLOANEIt's boring being king of the jungle.Wed Sep 19 1990 17:0420
    Studies show that people take more time off from work to look after
    parents than they do to take care of children. As the population ages,
    this will effect more and more folks. 
    
    We are in the position of having had our last child graduate from
    college, and we are now planning for an aging parent 700 miles away who
    may have to move in with us. My parents died at relative young ages
    (and I don't recommend that as a solution), but Joy's mother has no
    other children or other relatives. 
    
    100 years ago families were bigger, most women didn't work, fewer
    people lived to be old, and there were usually some maiden aunts around
    to care for ailing relatives. For better or worse the extended family 
    has been replaced by the nursing home. Many people live their last
    few years in expensive and impersonal institutions, poor health, and
    loneliness. My mother-in-law is not the easiest person on earth to get
    on with, but I am not going to let her waste away her last few years
    like that, despite any personal inconvenience.
    
    Bruce
385.19PENUTS::JLAMOTTETake a Hike...join the AMCWed Sep 19 1990 17:4427
    Bruce, I think it would be far kinder for you to say that you are going
    to do what is best for your mother-in-law.  Your comments prejudge all
    nursing homes and I don't think you have the available data to make
    that determination any more than I have the data to assume that you
    might shut your mother-in-law in a room and bring her food to her
    on a tray.
    
    Some of the new techniques for caring for the elderly alleviate a lot
    of pain.  I have a friend that kept her mother at home because the
    mother did not like being forced to sit up in a geri-chair.  The woman
    was bedridden for a year before her death, her only stimulus was the
    television and family visits.  It was a lonely year for her and what is
    worse she deterioted quickly.  
    
    Although the elderly often resist procedures that are used in
    professional care facilities, the end result is the remaining time is
    of a better quality then if they are allowed to do as they wish.
    
    I have seen my Mother go from a totally dependent individual, very
    senile to a semi-independent, well liked person in her community.  She
    was senile when she lived with my brother in a very nice mother-in-law
    apartment.  She now lives in congregate housing.
    
    The secret is finding a the right solution for your loved one.  And the
    best thing you can do for your parent is to be loving and supportive. 
    If you are exhausted by your responsibilities and the care that your 
    parent requires there last years will not be pleasant.  
385.20So far so goodLBDUCK::DEADERICKJoan E. DeaderickWed Sep 19 1990 18:3258
When my father died three years ago, after a mercifully short illness, my
mother's immediate reaction was to say, "I'll sell the house and move into
Shelton".  Shelton is a retirement community that had been often referred to 
as a late-life option by my parents, particularly my mother.  But they were
both in good health, so no real plans for the future were ever made.

We (my mother and I--my brother gets involved later) visited "Shelton" within a
month after my father's funeral and were disappointed to find the desired 
accommondations were not available.  I then mentioned that I had heard it wasn't 
a good idea to make any major change for a year anyway.  My mother decided to 
stay in the home thay they had bought after my father's retirement.

I visited every weekend, a 300-mile round trip, compulsively doing everything 
from dealing with the finances to fixing things in the house.  I guess I was
trying to "make things better".  After a few months of this, two friends,
one a contemporary of my mother's, and the other a women my age, told me
that she was too dependent on me; if I stopped doing all of these things, her 
friends could step in and help.  That was good advice, although I found it 
very hard to stay away that next weekend.  It probably saved my sanity, too. I 
now try to visit her once a month or so, and she makes trips to Massachusetts, 
staying with my brother or myself. (She is in good health, and is still able to  
drive, at the age of 82!)

I directed my energy towards elder issues in general, starting with the EAP
coordinator at my site, who had a lot of information.  I also began 
investigating retirement communities as a long term solution for my mother.  I 
started a Notes conference, LBDUCK::CARING_FOR_ELDERS (use SELECT or KP 7 to add
it to your notebook), and found help and comfort in others' sharing, just like 
in this string.

Then my brother, who is a warm and caring person, joined the dialogue.  His 
solution was to provide a home for our mother in his home.  (Is this a role 
reversal?  I'm the single sibling!)  He talked about building a family compound 
with accommodations for Mother and his inlaws.  Mother, however, has no desire 
to live with either of us.  She had had her parents living in her home for a 
number of years, at my father's insistence, and wanted none of it for herself.  
She is determined not to be a burden to her children!  

I fear that I am being a little selfish in wanting her to go to a retirement 
community--a continuing care community, in which she will be taken care of for 
the rest of her life (for a substantial financial investment, alas).  She agrees 
it would be a good move, although she is ambivalent about leaving the 
neighborhood in which she has lived for the last 17 years.

Where are we now?  Well, my mother's house is on the market, she has applied
to a retirement community here in Mass., my brother has not yet built his
family compound. . ..  It hasn't been resolved yet.  I wish she were safely in 
residence in the retirement community (she has to enter it while she is capable of
of independent living for the continuing care to be effective.).  I suspect my
brother wishes she were living with him.  Actually, things are fine the way
they are.  Its the future I'm worried about.

For now, in the words of the old AA/AlAnon slogan, I just have to
"Let go and let God".

Joan

P.S.  Does anyone mind if I put a pointer to this string in CARING_FOR_ELDERS?
385.22TINCUP::KOLBEThe dilettante debutanteWed Sep 19 1990 20:4226
    I think it's interesting that the trend in the US seems to be that the
    daughter takes care of parents and in the countries that value sons
    highly it is the son's family (read wife) who cares for his parents.

    My mother and I live together now as she can no longer be alone. During
    the day my brother (who is supported solely by my mother, but that's
    another story) comes over and makes her lunch and dinner. Left to her
    own she eats very little. After cancer surgery, gall bladder surgery
    and a stroke (all in two years time) she is still able to go for walks
    alone and manage some of her life but can't handle it all. She has
    trouble speaking and can no longer drive as she gets confused easily.

    My sister takes care of mom's financial issues, my brother feeds her
    and takes her to appointments and I provide a place for her to live and
    take her shopping or driving around just to get her out of the house
    for a while. I expect that when I'm past the stage of caring for myself
    I'll be one of those bag ladies since I have no kids to go live with
    and probably won't be able to afford a nursing home. 

    My problem is that I feel guilty when my life gets busy and I am gone
    much of the time. Yet I don't want to give up my life to sit at home
    with mom. My mom will go to a nursing home only when/if she requires 24
    hour care. She has made it plain that she does not want to be in one
    and I have to respect that. liesl

    
385.23"Parent Care: A Daughter's Task"SANDS::MAXHAMSnort when you laugh!Wed Sep 19 1990 22:5642
The following excerpts are copied here without permission from an
article in Burbank Hospital's (Fitchburg, Mass.) newsletter,
"Regarding Women and Healthcare."


		Parent Care: A Daughter's Task

	The physical decline of an elderly mother is painful
and stressful for her entire family.
	But the person who shoulders the greatest part of
her physical care and emotional comfort usually is her adult
daughter. Although women's roles have changed in this century,
as women have joined the paid work force, the care of aging
parents remains primarily a daughter's task.
	....For every disabled person in a nursing home, there
are two or more equally impaired living with their families.
One study calculates that 2.25 million women between the ages
of 40 and 59 shared their households with elderly kin in 1980;
more than 1 million households contain an older person who needs
help with such basics as dressing and eating.
	....Caring for elderly relatives is becoming a second
career for many women. Some women studied had been caring for an
elderly parent for more than 20 years. A study of married
women caring for widowed mothers found that nearly half had
helped an elderly father before his death; 22 percent also
were currently providing help to another elderly relative.
Given current demographics, these women are likely to face
caring for a dependent husband or in-law in the future.
	That caregiving career often conflicts with wage
earning. Among women 45 to 54 years old, 60 percent are in
the labor force....
	...Whether they work outside the home or not, daughters
are usually expected to provide hands-on care to their
elderly parents. Sons are expected to call or visit. One study
showed that of 32 men providing parent care, 88 percent
either had no sisters or were the only child in the geographic
area. Sons also got backup help from their wives; 77 percent
said their spouses helped out, compared with 49 percent
of daughters who had helpful husbands. Men also feel less
stretched between their parents and their own families....
    

385.24SANDS::MAXHAMSnort when you laugh!Wed Sep 19 1990 23:4035
It's really tough figuring out how to deal with the issue of
aging, ailing parents.

In my family, my father was the parent who needed care. I had
taken care of him in high school after my mother died, and I was
unwilling to commit to taking care of him after college. My
brother and sister-in-law moved in and took care of Dad for
two years. Then they felt that the strain was claiming
too high a toll on them, and we agreed that a nursing home
was the best answer....

I felt a lot of guilt about putting him into a nursing home. I
doubt I'll ever forget holding his arm and walking him down the
porch to the car to take him there. It was one
of the saddest and hardest things I've ever done. But it was
something that had to be done, though I'm well aware that
there are those who would not understand our decision.

The experience with my father made me very aware that 
it's damn hard to find a good nursing home. And it's even
harder to get into it if you can find it. Waiting lists are long.
(At least they were in Vermont in the mid- and late-70s.) There's
so much that needs to be done in this field....

As for the expectation that single daughters are a better
choice for parent care than single or married sons. I think that's nonsense.
Parent care should be done by the child who is best suited to do it.
There are so many factors that should be weighed in deciding
which son/daughter is best suited. It's far too simplistic to lay
the responsibility on one family member because of that person's
sex and marital status.

Enough for now.

Kathy
385.25YUPPY::DAVIESAArtemis'n'me...Thu Sep 20 1990 08:5411
     
    Re .7
    
    I'm another daughter who is lucky enough to still have healthy parents.
    The idea of them becoming frailer as they age is so painful to me that
    so far I've refused to even think about it....
    Thanks for sharing your experiences here - they're so valuable, and
    a gentle way of teaching those of us who may have this yet to come....
    
    'gail
    
385.26So far away,WFOVX8::BRENNAN_NThu Sep 20 1990 10:2534
    
    I am a daughter of aging parents.  My parents are retired in Fresno,
    CA, I live in Mass.  3,500 miles apart.  My mom is 72, and dad is 78.
    Sooooo, last June, I rec'd an emergency call that mom had had a slight
    stroke.  I rushed out there, to find that my dad had been diagnosed
    as advanced Althzeimer's and mom had the stroke because she didn't tell
    anybody and was trying to care for him herself.  It got to be too
    much for her and POOF, she had the stroke.  A lot of good came out of
    it, be as it may.
    
    My mom's sister took right over and got him into a really nice
    Althzeimer Victims home.  The hard part was visiting him.  I saw a man
    who in the past was a strong, very strong person.  At times he would
    be working 3-jobs to keep a roof over our head and food on the table.
    Now, he is a frail, not strong at all, and really has no recollection
    of his past.  He was totally shocked when told that he had been married
    with 3 kids and that there was a whole past life that he had.  Five
    minutes later, he doesn't remember any of it again.
    
    Well, my mother *used* to visit him twice a week (she's recovering
    fine), but, has found she is able to visit only once now.  She goes
    into a very deep depression, and doesn't come out of her room the rest
    of the day.  She has stated to me that she wishes he would just die
    and she could get on with her life.  This is sooooo hard for me to
    hear being so far away.  I understand her attitude completely, but,
    it just seems so unfair.
    
    Sooooooooo, in the future, I will be visiting them at least once a
    year, Christmas being the next time.  Another way to feel helpless is
    being so far away.
    
    My heart goes out to *all* kids of aging parents....
    
    Nancy  
385.27FSHQA1::AWASKOMThu Sep 20 1990 11:1331
    In some ways, I know that I was fortunate.  My mom's illness was
    relatively short, and she remained mentally alert and cheerful to the
    day she died.  My grandparents were not so fortunate.  Grammy has
    Parkinson's, and is in a nursing home.  Before his death, my
    grandfather had a series of small strokes which resulted in short-term
    memory loss.  Visiting them was incredibly difficult (we were never
    particularly close).  My grandmother has often said that she wishes she
    could just *go* - the waiting is agonizing.
    
    Media tell us that women can expect to spend an average of 22 years
    caring for their children and another 12 - 20 years of caring for
    elderly relatives.  And I keep thinking of how *different* the two
    kinds of 'caring for' are.  Kids are truly completely dependent for
    only a year or two at most (usually).  After that they become capable
    of feeding themselves, going to the bathroom, dressing, moving about on
    their own.  They become *more* able to communicate.  With elderly
    relatives, the inverse is true.  And you have no idea how long that
    burden of care will last, how fast the deterioration will occur.  No
    wonder the caregivers become stressed, in spite of whatever love and
    obligation they may feel.
    
    For all of us who are in this place - be gentle with yourself.  Know
    that the ones you love will feel that warmth, even if they cannot
    acknowledge it, even when you must find less direct ways of expressing
    it.  When making the decisions, don't leave your own needs out of the 
    equation.  In years gone by, fewer folks had the opportunity to reach
    the point that the diseases of old age were the ones that claimed them. 
    We are learning new ways of coping - but once again I feel that our
    generation is the groundbreaker.  And that is a stressful role too.
    
    Alison   
385.28No solution fits everybodyCUPMK::SLOANEIt's boring being king of the jungle.Thu Sep 20 1990 12:0212
    Re: .18, .19 (Replies add up in a hurry!)
    
    Yes, I'm going to do what's best for my mother-in-law. She has been
    very adamant about not going to a nursing home. She's heard too many
    unpleasant stories from and about friends and relatives in nursing
    homes. Her perceptions may or may not be true, but I truly believe she
    would rather die than go to a nursing home.
    
    Bruce
    
    
    
385.29WRKSYS::STHILAIREFood, Shelter & DiamondsThu Sep 20 1990 12:3130
    I had always heard horror stories of nursing homes, too.  But, my
    brother and I were very fortunate in getting my mother into what
    appears to be a very nice one.  It's difficult to imagine that they put
    on an act only when visitors are there since we could pop in almost
    anytime.  The nursing home my mother is in is in Hopedale, Mass., and
    is in a large Victorian house.  It is kept spotless and the staff
    really do always seem pleasant, cheerful, friendly and helpful.  In
    fact, after hearing so many horror stories all my life I was very
    surprised at first with how *nice* all of the staff seem to be, from
    the older women who work there to the young guys who help out
    part-time.  The staff all like my mother because, even though she is
    completely confused mentally, she is extremely cheerful and never
    complains.  They always call her by her first name.  When she was first
    there she found a "boyfriend" in one of the older men who was just as
    confused as she was.  The nurses told me that they thought it was
    really nice that the two had found each other for company.  They used
    to sit together holding hands, and sometimes thought they were each
    other's spouse!  I think it was the man's children who didn't like it
    and complained and asked the nurses to break it up.  I guess they felt
    it was disrespectful to their mother's memory or something.  Anyway,
    although I'm sure there are some nursing homes that are horrible places
    they are not all terrible.  The place my mother is in has organized
    activities and takes the mobile ones on outings.  Considering the
    condition that most of these elderly people are in, I really don't
    think that it is cruel for them to be living in this nursing home.  The
    cruel thing is that they can't be 45 yrs. old again and in the prime of
    their life.  But, nothing can bring back their youth.
    
    Lorna
    
385.30NRADM::ROBINSONdid i tell you this already???Thu Sep 20 1990 12:5826
    
    
    	Right now I'm in the middle of `round one' with my grandparents,
    	ages 90 and 82. I know that someday I will be responsible for my
    	mother, too. One thing you need to watch out for is definitely
    	the medication. My grandmother began to show signs of severe memory
    	loss, lack of coordination, and other frightening changes ina 
    	very short while. My grandfather was NOT keeping her doctor up to
    	date on this. We thought she was having `small strokes'. Finally,
    	after several family members called her doctor, he set up a
    	conference with my granparents and mother. The result was that her
    	medications were clashing and she was on too many sleeping pills.
    	It is now three weeks later, and the grandmother I thought we were
    	losing is now the woman I knew five years ago!!! The thing was, my
    	grandfather was TERRIFIED of bringing it to the doctors attention
    	because he knows they only have so many years left together, and
    	he was afraid they would take her away from him because he couldn't
    	take good enough care of her. 
    
    	I feel honored to be the one my grandparents rely on most. I love
    	them very much and I cherish the time I have left with them. I
    	don't even measure the amount of time I spend on them, because it
    	is worth more to me than time spent on myself. 
    
    	Sherry
    
385.31you can never tellCSC32::M_EVANSThu Sep 20 1990 13:4939
    re .28
    
    Bruce, never name the well you won't drink from.  My aunt had promised
    my grandmother that she would never place her in a home, and had to
    break the promise 9 years later.  Until you have had to care for a
    completely bed-ridden person, day after day, week after week, well you
    get my drift.  This is a person who will never get better, and will get
    progressively worse as time goes on.  
    
    My aunt went through having a clost set on fire before my grandmothers
    last series of strokes that left her bedridden.  Then the screaming and
    hallucenations started.  Needless to say after several months of
    literally whatching my grandmother's life and caring for her, my aunt
    broke down.
    
    I am having to face the problem in the next few years.  My parents are
    in their 70's, my dad's health has been failing, and I am the only
    child in town.  I have two single sisters, but one is enmeshed in a
    very challenging career, and the other is dysfunctional to the point, I
    wouldn't trust her to care for herself half the time.
    
    My family lives long lives, as my father says, often too long.  (his
    father died in a nursing home last year at the age of 97.  He really
    hadn't been coherent for 4 years.  My other grandfather lived to be 94,
    and one grandmother to 92.  My mother says the lucky one was my dad's
    mother who died in her sleep at 80 with her mind and body mostly
    intact. 
    
    My parents have agreed that should the time come, a nursing home is the
    best alternative for them and me.  I have my family to raise as well. 
    In some says I wish they would sell their house across town, and move
    into my area where there is public transportation, and a better elder
    support system, but I like having them away from my personal space too. 
    They don't want me running their lives either.
    
    Lorna, I understand how you feel.  I can see that you are doing the
    best for your mother, as I will for my parents as well.
    
    Meg
385.32my experienceTLE::RANDALLliving on another planetThu Sep 20 1990 15:2428
    Many nursing homes are comfortable places with lots of room and
    plenty of people to socialize with -- and you don't need to be
    senile or terminally ill to find it a better solution.
    
    My grandfather lived in a nursing home for many years.  He had
    emphsyma -- not enough to cripple him fully, just enough to limit
    his activities to slow walks. There were no smooth flat places for
    him to walk near our house.  He could sit and read Westerns, but
    he also loved to play cribbage and swap tall tales with friends,
    none of whom lived anywhere near us.  And if he had an attack
    during the night, he had to be rushed to a hospital right away,
    but we lived half an hour's drive out of town.  
    
    In the nursing home, they had the oxygen tanks right there and
    nurses on call; he didn't even have to leave his own bed when
    things were bad.  They paired him up with another cribbage addict
    as a roommate; sometimes we'd go in to visit and there would be
    four old men playing cribbage, swearing, and bitching about the
    laxative in their orange juice.  
    
    I've never talked to my mother about the decision, but I have
    always assumed from the way they behaved that going into a group
    living situation was as much his decision as hers.  And I'm sure
    that for someone like him, used to an active and sociable life,
    living in isolation with just us around would have driven him to
    depression pretty quickly. 
    
    --bonnie
385.33Two PossibilitiesHENRYY::HASLAM_BACreativity UnlimitedThu Sep 20 1990 19:1311
    Re: .8 Have they checked him out for (what *is* the spelling?)
    emphseyma?  My father-in-law used to have total blackouts, fainting
    at the wheel of his truck, etc.  That's what it turned out to be!
    
    Re: .10  Definitely consider Alzheimer's.  She sounds like that
    may very well be her problem.  If so, it will get much, much worse
    so try to be prepared by reading up on it.  If I can support you
    in any way, please write.
    
    Thinking of you both,
    Barb
385.34I worry about this subject!CADSYS::HECTOR::RICHARDSONTue Sep 25 1990 12:1950
    I have nightmares about this subject!  My father died of cancer five
    years ago (he was 70), and during his whole illness I only made it out
    there (1500 miles from here - my folks moved away when I went off to
    college; I grew up about half an hour's drive from where I live now)
    to help once, between the expense and the state of things at work (the
    project I was on was canceled the day I returned from his funeral; if
    that happened today I guess I would be "transitionned", but instead it
    meant that one very difficult period of my life was followed immediately
    by another, job-hunting full-time for several months before finding my
    current position).
    
    Now I worry about my mother.  It took her about a year to get over
    losing my father (they had been married for 41 years).  She has some
    physical limitations due to back surgery she had about 9 years ago, so
    she had to find a network of handymen, plumbers, etc., to do all the
    household stuff my father (a tall, strong man even right before his
    death - he was both a professor of electrical engineering and a
    licensed electrician) used to do which she cannot strain her back doing
    herself.  Luckily, she is in good health (she is now 67), and has a
    network of local friends, mostly other widowed ladies of about the same
    age, plus a smattering of younger musicians (string quartet people).
    
    But I don't know what is going to happen if her health deteriorates.  I
    have a younger brother, now 34, who lives closer than I do, but he is
    physically handicapped, and has never managed to hold down a paying job
    (although he is a good deal smarter than I am!), and is supported by my
    mother - his eyesight is not good enough for him to drive.  I am
    certain mother would not want to move in with me, and anyhow not only
    is my house not big enough, but since I live on a steep hill there is
    no way to get in or out without contending with stairs.  It would not
    be practical for her to live with my brother if she were unable to
    drive herself, of course, since she would be as housebound as he is. 
    She used to talk about a retirement/assisted living community in the
    southwest someplace (Arizona or New Mexico) for retired musicians, but
    I don't think she can afford it anymore because of what she has to
    spend to maintain my brother; she has not mentionned the place in
    several years.
    
    I just hope that when her time comes, she dies quickly and painlessly,
    at her home in her sleep.  Her mother died of Alzheimher's Disease
    about ten years ago, after several years of living first with my
    mother's older sister (until she could no longer cope because of her
    own arthritis), then with my mother, and finally in a series of nursing
    homes, some of which were pretty grim places.  The whole experience was
    real hard on everyone.  I know mother worries that she may be at risk
    for the disease herself.  
    
    Sometimes there just aren't any good answers.
    
    /Charlotte
385.35another Althzeimer's victimWFOVX8::BRENNAN_NThu Nov 01 1990 14:2413
    
    My last reply was .26, explaining that my father had Althzeimer's.
    Well, thank the goddess, it didn't last long.  He died Monday after
    months of just fading away.  I look at it as a blessing in disguise,
    and now Mom can return (somewhat) to a life without worry.
    
    She's recovering from a stroke very well, and also has taken the
    attitude that his death is a blessing....
    
    She's 3500 miles away, and there's not much I can do right now, but,
    I will be seeing her at Christmas to reminise (sp?) the good times.
    
    Nancy
385.36God was kind to your dad~PCOJCT::COHENat least I'm enjoyin' the rideThu Nov 01 1990 16:257
    Nancy,
    
    My hopes and prayers are with you......and your family...and you were
    absolutely right....thank God it didn't last long!
    
    Jill
    
385.37I never thought it would be now.SADVS1::HIDALGOTue Nov 13 1990 17:0332
    
    I never thought it would be now.  
    
    My dad was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer in July of this 
    year.  He's been given 3 months to 1 year to live.  He's 67 years old.
    My mom is 59 years old.  I'm 36, the oldest of three children, the only 
    girl, the only one who's single, no human children (my cat Birdie is 3 
    years old), still renting.  They retired back to Puerto Rico 5 years ago. 
    My brothers and I all live in N.J.  
    
    He still doesn't know.  My mom decided that he should recover from the 
    surgery first.  He was born at home, it was the first time he'd ever 
    been in a hospital.  It was awful for him.  Mom stayed with him the 
    entire 21 days, it was worse for her.   But it's been over three months 
    now and she doesn't want to tell him at all.  She's worried that he'll 
    get depressed and stop eating.  According to the American Cancer Society 
    and my dad's doctors, there's no point in either chemo or radiation, it's 
    only effective in less than 20% of the time and then just to extend the 
    life expectancy by 3 or 4 weeks, and what is an extra 3 or 4 weeks if 
    the side-effects make you wish you were dead.
    
    Since August I've been sending my resume out, trying to move to Puerto
    Rico (CRO facility is about 35 minutes from their house), but although 
    people are helpful, I'm not a Networking or MFG Cons and things are pretty
    frozen right now.
     
    I just never thought it would be now.  
    
    I thought I'd be in my 50's and they would be in their 70's, or I'd 
    be in my 70's and they in their 90's or just NOT NOW!
    
    Miriam                           
385.38SAGE::GODINNaturally I'm unbiased!Thu Nov 15 1990 12:395
    Miriam, hugs and strengthening thoughts wing their way to you at a time
    when words just don't seem to help.
    
    Take care.
    Karen
385.39Still surviving Life With MotherCSG002::PWHITEJust lookin' for a homeTue Nov 20 1990 09:5145
    My Mother is still staying with me as she recovers from 
    her cataract surgery.  I have also taken her for the first 
    visit of a mental evaluation at the University of Massachusetts
    Medical Center neurology group.  She has to go back for a CAT
    scan of her head, and an in-depth neuropsychological interview.
    She still does not admit to any memory problems.  I persuaded 
    her to go to the evaluation by telling her that the elder housing
    required a doctor's evaluation to be sure she can take care of
    herself.
    
    During the visit, Dr Mitchell told us both that she needs more
    structure in her life and that she should not live alone.  Living
    with me is not the solution either, since she would be isolated
    all day.  We won't have the complete diagnosis until January,
    unless there are cancellations.  Since I have convinced Mother to
    move, she is anxious to get on with it, to find a place and for me
    to take her back to Georgia to pack up.  I can take her to look at
    housing, but don't want to make a decision yet.  I have already
    taken a number of days and half days off for her; I can't take more
    time off just now.
    
    I have periods of feeling angry at my sisters, who are doing only
    what they can without cancelling other plans.  They are better at
    finding excuses why I can do it better than at thinking what they
    can do for me or for Mother.  We're going to one sister's house 
    for Thanksgiving.  Maybe I can convince her to come here and 
    participate in the housing search, take Mother to doctors, organize
    her finances, and so on.  
    
    It is difficult for me to figure out what my Mother can't do and
    what she is letting go in order to get my attention and to be
    waited upon.  I am never sure whether I should force her to take 
    responsibility for something, like her eye drops, or paying her 
    bills, or whether it would be kinder to just take over.  She has
    begun to react to me at times as her persecutor instead of her 
    rescuer.  Since she is good at playing the role of martyr or innocent
    victim, she looks for someone else to blame for anything that is not
    good in her life.  
    
    It helps to read about others who are facing problems with aging
    parents, and to have a place where I can write about it.  I know
    that there will be no quick, complete "solution".
    
    Pat