Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    G'Day,
    
    	From a males point of view I think you did very well.  I am sure
    that the onset for puberty is probably quite disturbing for a lot of
    young women and to have a parent share experiences and/or knowledge
    with them is definately the way to go.
    
    	These days I think people are a lot more in tune with what goes on
    so her appartent disinterest in what you had to say was probably just a
    typical teenage reaction of today - 'Yeah mum, that's great but I knew
    about it all years ago'.  Deep down though I'd say that she was pleased
    that you took the time and effort to talk to her (a lot of parents
    don't) and she should feel at ease to talk to you if any problems
    should arise.  Now she knows you are aware and interested in what is
    happening to her she wont feel ashamed or embarrased to talk to you in
    the future.
    
    David.
    

	I'm blessed with two daughters. I'm further blessed with great
relationships with both of them. The approaches that seem to have
paid off the most for me in developing my relationships with them over
the years are: Building the special memories; constantly focusing them
on their positive attributes; letting them know what I'm going through in
raising them.

	Special memories: built a couple with them this month (both of
their birthdays in August) went to movies and then out to eat, just me
and the 'birthday lady.I watch for these opportunities and capitalize on 
them whenever I can. I think the experience you related will be one of those
special memories for your daughter.

	Being a mirror that constanly focuses them on their positive
resources gets them over the humps we all experience. We all need
positive human mirrors. In a sense everyone we interact with is a mirror.

	If I'm fearful and because of that I'm restricting them from
certain activities...I tell them of my fears. They still get upset with
dad...but somehow telling them where I'm coming from (love) helps an 
lot. You're going through a lot with the marital problems as well as
trying to reach out to your daughter...I bet she's already aware of a 
lot of it....sharing what you're going through with her to the degree
that you can may offer her an opportunity to reach out to you.

	Hang in there....keep reaching...best of luck.

MAC

    I think that you did fine.  Having a "period" is a part of growing up
    and a part of life. (Although I'm sure many of us wish it wasn't.)  I
    think that it is important to acknowledge milestones.  The fact your
    daughter was so matter of fact about it probably speaks well of the
    way you and/or your spouse prepared her for it. 

    
    You didn't say how old your daughter is.  If she's still pretty
    young (like younger than 12?), she may be ambivalent about
    growing up.  She must know what having her period means, and
    she's probably in no way (other than biologically) ready to have one.
    

    Hi,
    
    I'd be somewhat cautious to not be overly intrusive; be there when
    she seems to need you but otherwise, let her be (your words "went
    into her" imply you may be a bit too controlling (yes, yes, Freudian
    I know).  
    My daughter even at age 19 gets very uncomfortable if I try to 'push'
    a point a tad too long or deep. 
    Maia
    

    It's always difficult, but I think you handled it superbly....
    
    Letting your children know that you are not averse to discussions which
    may be off-putting to some parents is good, I believe.  However, there
    is the point at which you can fail to respect their privacy, their
    confidences.  In my experience as a step-parent, that's a very delicate
    balance to achieve, and sometimes you can't win. Period. :^)
    
    keep up the good work,
    Marge

    One things I noted, you are keeping the marriage together until
    the kids are grown.  I suspect the kids are aware that things are
    not great between you and your spouse.  They may even know that
    you plan to separate/divorce when they are older.
    
    So I see a potential problem in congratulating your daughter on
    becomming a grown up.  This puts the time of family dissolution
    all the nearer.
    
    Other than that, I suggest _listening_ to her if she doesn't want
    to go out, or says she isn't feeling well.  For some women, the first
    few years are a breeze, for others it's very uncomfortable.  If
    it's uncomfortable, it's made worse by not being taken seriously.
    
       Margaret

Consider chatting with a professional (a doctor, maybe a woman doctor). They
deal with this all the time.
	Mez

    I think you did a great job!  I can remember when my MOM and I had "the
    talk" and how it didn't last long, we didn't say much, but afterward I
    KNEW that some things would now be different.  It took our relationship
    to a new plane!  I think age has a lot to do with how a woman will
    respond...the teens are such a self-conscious time already...

    
    The following is an anonymous reply to the base note question.
    
    Bonnie J
    =wn= comod
    
    ____________________________________________________
    
Yes, I agree that you handled it fine.  You showed that you were there
for her.  I give you credit for taking the subject so seriously.  I can
still remember the day (and I'm now 34 years old) my mom explained it to
me.  I asked her a question and her response was -- "what a dummy" and she
continued to laugh at me.  I can't begin to say how hurt I was (and still
am).  To this day, I find myself unable to confide in her about anything,
I lost all trust.  Perhaps I'm wrong feeling this way, but I do.

.7 -- you're absolutely correct!  "It's made worse by not being taken
seriously"!

My thoughts to .0  ......

You appeared to take the subject seriously, you were there for her and I
truly think that if she needs you, she'll feel comfortable in coming to
you (something that I truly wish that I would have been able to have with
my mom years ago, but didn't!)

    In our family, we talked about all that *way before* I got my period.
     I think that that is the way it should be.  When I got my period,
    I knew all about it, I knew what it meant, I knew it was nothing
    to be ashamed of.  As a matter of fact, I went right down stairs
    and made an announcement to everyone (my mom, dad, sister and
    grandmother).  I was kinda nervous, but more just excited.  You
    have to make sure that you don't somehow give your daughter the
    message that this is "bad" or "secret".  Make sure that she knows
    she can talk about puberty *in general* with you (both the changes
    that occur to boys and to girls)  Maybe ask her casually how she's 
    handling it.  Talk about your period with her.  Let her know that 
    it is *not* a taboo subject.  It seems like you're off to a good start,
    keep up the good work!
                          
    KarenKay              

    re .11 do it in advance 
    
    yup, i second that.  my mom showed me how to use a pad and belt when i
    was 9 years old.  felt pretty goofy, but the day came 4 years later
    when my mom had moved out.  i told my dad first (he says, i don't
    remember).  he and mom each bought me a copy of our bodies our selves. 
    IF SHE DOESN'T HAVE THIS BOOK ALREADY, GET IT!!!!  get two copies, one
    for you and one for her.  she may need to know stuff that she can't
    discuss with mom or dad: example - i didn't know women had orgasms or
    masturbated until a couple years of feeling very naughty and dirty had
    passed.  that book told me about that, and BANG - no guilt.
    
    .0, i assume you're a man.  you can't say much about periods, in my
    opinion, because you haven't got the foggiest idea.  a sad but true
    fact of life.  buy her books, and make only the slightest of fusses
    about giving them to her.
    
    "you're a woman now" -- i've heard it a lot, but it's hard for me to
    buy that; she'll be a woman when she grows up, has her own home, pays
    her own bills, etc.  if that's too strong a statement for you to
    accept, perhaps a better one is just: is she any more or less a woman
    than she was yesterday?  she's a girl and will have many more girl-ish
    mistakes to make.
    
    lee who grew up a little faster than she should have...

    re: .12
    
    Not to go down a rat hole, but let's not run this note into the ground
    with comments like "you can't say much about periods, in my opinion,
    because you haven't got the foggiest idea"...  Many folks (men and
    women) take offense as such remarks, regardless of there accuracy, and
    they do nothing to further the discussion.
    
    As to my opinion, several folks, including .12, suggested that the
    parent offer books to the daughter.  This is good and I don't see any
    reason why a man can't get *as much* information and understanding from
    these books as the daughter is supposed to get.  Add to that that the
    man may have a wife and the 'man' can become quite educated. 
    "experience" it?  no way, understand it and be able to explain it? 
    Most certainly.
    
    Sorry for the digression, now back to the program in progress...
    
    re: .0 It does seem to me that you handled this well.  My wife and I
    have spent many hours talking about how we will handle these times (with
    both son and daughter) and have come to the conclusion that we will
    handle it in whatever way the children are most confortable.  If Jen is
    more comfortable with Kathy then fine.  As for ages, we try to judge
    when they seem ready for what information and make it available as a
    normal part of everyday communicating.  We avoid placing any stigma on
    any topic, beyond what we feel is polite or not based on the audiance.
    
    jim

    As the mother of a 16-year-old daughter, the only thing I can add
    to what's already been said is, make sure that every talk with her
    isn't at a time of crisis.  Make some of them about this year's
    fashions or the football team or soap operas or skateboards or
    whatever kind of music she's into, or whatever else she's
    interested in.
    
    --bonnie

    Maybe I'm really strange, but I know that when I was a teenager I did
    not appreciate my parents being nosy about my bodily changes.
    When I had my period for the first time I wanted to tell my friends
    but not my parents.
    Just my opinion I guess.
    Carol

    When my youngest sister started she just started using the idems
    already provided in the closet for her three older sisters. As far as I 
    can tell she didn't tell anyone til another sister outright asked her
    if she had started. That was at least one year after she was using the 
    products.
    
    I think it is appropriate to respect the young womans privacy and
    let her know that if she wants she can come to talk to you about it.
    With my daughter I have always included the name of a close friend
    whom she could talk to if she felt more comfortable. Having the
    products on hand before they are needed can aid in the respecting
    of her privacy. I have already shown Angela how to use the different
    products and where they are when she wants to use them. And I always 
    keep the instructions laying around. Great reading material for curious
    minds. That way some questions that could be too 
    embarrasing to ask can be answered.
    
    As a Girl Scout leader (for juniors) The first aid kit is equiped and 
    all the girls know it.
    Funny thing how two or three of the girls seem to start theirs on the
    first night out at camp. I figure they all want the opportunity to 
    "be grown up". I remember when angela was 7 or 8 and I found her
    using the panty liners. I asked her if she really needed them and she 
    said she didn't she just wanted to know what it was like to wear them
    all day at school.
    
    janet

    A woman friend and I taught the Unitarian-Universalist course
    for early-teens that is called About Your Sexuality last year.
    It was held every Sunday evening for about 14 weeks.  Eleven
    kids, 4 boys, 7 girls, all 13/14 years old...
    
    When we were talking about menstruation, it was part of how a
    woman's body "works", and the emphasis was that it is NOT 
    "bleeding" in the sense that one bleeds from a cut.  (I kind
    of winced at the comment that the "First Aid" kit has tampons,
    pads, etc.  Right in there with the bandaids, and bandages?)
    We didn't shy away from the fact that it can be accompanied by
    cramps, other body symptoms and mood changes, etc, and sometimes
    is a nuisance, but we also said it is a sign of a healthy woman's
    body between puberty and menopause.  I know women who took their
    daughter "out" to celebrate a milestone in her life as a woman.
    
    Some of the girls had started, some not.  The most mature of the
    girls said that her mother told her about it when she was about
    nine and that she thought it was really weird and freaky, but
    then when she started, she was glad she had known about it.
    
    The boys were fascinated -- some had older sisters and knew
    a little about it, but not much.   Boys need to know about this
    too!  
    
    The course deals with all things sexual (yes, same-sex relationships,
    too).  However, I was surprised (and saddened) to see how these
    kids had already adopted most of the traditional, narrow beliefs 
    and values.  I hope we helped to dispel some of them.
    
    (The goal of the course is help kids to make informed choices when
    the time comes to make choices, and to honor themselves and their
    partner in the process.)
    
    It seems to me that the ideal is for every kid to have an informed,
    trusting, caring adult who can be there when needed.  It is hard
    (but not impossible) for that adult to be the kid's parent(s), given
    all the pressures society puts on the parent-child relationship.
    Sometimes an aunt/uncle, or neighbor, or teacher can do it.
    
    UUs try to do it with this course.            - Bill