Conference turris::womannotes-v3

>    What about films that are notable for their *positive* treatment of
>    women?

ALIEN(S)!!!!!!

D!, die-hard Sigourney Weaver fan

[Oh yeah, surprisingly, I was impressed by the women in the lasted
Schwarzenegger (sp) film, "Total Recall". I am generally not turned on
by violence, and I really didn't like the movie, but at least when the
women fought they *fought*, for real, just like the men, and they weren't
running about being rescued, they were running about rescuing.  Loved
the scene at the elevator...]

    Some nominations --
    
    ALIENS
    Sigourney Weaver is the main character -- a woman who is strong,
    intelligent, doesn't waste words, and is determined to do whatever is
    necessary to save others.  I also liked that the main bond in the film
    is between her and a small girl, not a romantic one.
    
    THE TERMINATOR
    ?? plays an ordinary woman with an ordinary life who learns to survive
    and saves herself and the world.  She is courageous and flexible.  She
    showed emotion about the situation she was in -- a situation she didn't
    want but had no control over -- but dealt with it philosophically when
    it became obvious that she had no choice but to act.
    
    HOUSEKEEPING
    Christine Lahti plays a woman who is very different from most people in
    society.  I liked the film because the character follows her own path
    through life.  She is true to herself.
    
    STEEL MAGNOLIAS
    Mainly because women and their lives are the focus.  It showed the
    interactions between women, the support, the laughter, and some issues.
    
    
    Pam

    Oh, yes, D!, I agree!!
    
    Karen Allen played the Raiders of the Lost Ark character -- I loved the
    opening bar scene for her, and the scene where she's trying to get away
    from the Frenchman...
    
    I was going to mention the women in Total Recall -- for their fighting
    ablity -- then decided they weren't quite what I was looking for in
    terms of character development....:-)
    
    Pam

    re .2 The Terminator starred Linda Hamilton, who went on to 
    "Beauty and the Beast" on TV.
    
    Great character development/evolution from harried waitress to
    freedom fighter. 

'Crimes of the Heart'  [Spacek, Keaton, Lange]
    Three sisters with more quirks than most mental hospitals can number, but
a strong treatment of coming to terms with weaknesses and strengths, past hurts
and future triumphs.  Margaret coming to terms with being more than 'dangerous,
sexy, & wild.'  Lenore coming to realise that there's more to being attractive
and loved than two whole ovaries and a pretty face.  Babe living through a 
crisis and realising that her actions have consequences that she must own.

  Annie

    
    another vote for 'housekeeping' one of my favorite movies.
    

    
    .2, Steel Magnolias -
    
    Agreed. Despite the fact that it took place mostly in a beauty parlor,
    it showed women being strong and supportive and funny, esp. when the chips
    were down - a beautiful example, I thought, of "female bonding."
    
    D.

    More!
    
    LADYHAWKE
    Michelle Pfeiffer's character didn't allow herself to be manipulated
    into a situation she didn't want, and took the consequences (which was
    a situation she wanted even less, but then again it's a movie!).   She
    supports herself by getting her own food, place to sleep, etc. (she got
    along fine before Matthew Broderick's character showed up, I mean). 
    She takes action when the time comes.  She doesn't whine or vamp or sit
    around or expect others to take care of her.
    
    OUT OF AFRICA
    I didn't like the movie that much, but the Karen Blixen character
    (Meryl Streep) was a (real-life, yay!) free-thinker who went ahead and
    made her dreams come true.  
    
    S ??
    Meryl Streep (again) in the movie where her character blew the whistle
    on nuclear plant un-safety.  There have been a couple of true-story
    union action/ whistle-blowing/anti-big business movies starring women
    who don't let things stay the way they have been -- MARIE starred Sissy
    Spacek and was about publicizing systematic prison abuses.  (Funny how
    a lot of the movies with unusually strong female characters are based
    on real life; most of the ones without female characters or with weak
    ones are total fiction. :-))
    
    ??
    Susan Sarandon in a film with Raul Julia where she went after the truth
    about the murder of a local dentist.  She had no support from her
    husband, got threats spraypainted in her kitchen, and kept on.  At the
    end, she chooses a non-traditional movie way of dealing with the
    handsome detective love-interest.  She was intelligent and persistent
    and resourceful.  Her side-kick friend played by ?? was a RIOT -- very
    original and very funny.
    
    
    I thought of a couple of near-misses, too...
    
    9 TO 5
    This would be a classic in this category but for some reason it's too
    cutesy.  Lily Tomlin's character comes closest.
    
    MYSTIC PIZZA
    The friendship/bonding among the three friends (like the scene where
    they're all screeching R-E-S-P-E-C-T in the front of the car!)
    definitely fits the topic, but the main topic of conversation is
    finding the right guy, which isn't quite the message I'm thinking of. 
    (Loved the movie, though!)
    
    MISSING
    Sissy Spacek's character is strong and wonderful, but I found myself
    irritated with how the movie became Jack Lemmon's movie, when he didn't
    know the language, the people, or the country as well as she did.  It
    made no sense -- if the sex roles had been reversed (with the husband
    trying to find the wife, and the wife's mother coming in from the U.S.
    to find out what's going on), they would have made the interactions
    very different.
    
    BLACK WIDOW
    Kind of interesting film, but both female characters were flawed for me
    as "strong" women.  They also both hid too much from each other.
    
    Actually, Debra Winger has played some strong characters, like in that
    movie where she is an FBI agent gone undercover, who falls in love with
    Tom Berenger and discovers he really is a militant white supremacist... 
    She loves him but chooses to go through with what she must do, even
    though it is painful.
    
    
    I think one of the keys for me is that with strong female characters
    you get a sense for how they feel about the situation and yet how they
    follow through to do what must be done.  It makes it seem real.  And
    the movie makes it clear that "of course" the female character is
    capable (like the women fighting in TOTAL RECALL or Sigourney Weaver in
    ALIENS).
    
    Pam

    I think two in the last note were
    
    Silkwood (the nuclear power whistleblower)
    
    Eating Raoul
    
    I still can't think of any no one else has already entered...
    
    -Jody
    
    

    
    Cross Creek and Heart Like a Wheel.  I'm embarrassed to say I don't
    remember much about either of these movies, but they both have women 
    as the main characters and are based on the lives of real women.  In 
    Cross Creek, the main character is a writer; in Heart Like a Wheel, 
    a hearing-impaired race car driver.  Perhaps someone else can fill us 
    in on the details.
    
    CQ

    
    'compromising positions' was the movie with susan sarandon and
    raoul julia.
    
    still working on the debra winger/tom berenger movie....
    
    

    No, no, Jody!!  EATING RAOUL was the one where the nice couple
    developed a nice business in conjunction with Raoul, inviting guests
    over and bopping them on the head. They lured over the guests by
    writing lurid personal ads using the wife as bait, so I don't think the
    movie _quite_ qualifies!  :-)  Yes to SILKWOOD and COMPROMISING
    POSITIONS, though...
    
    I think I watch too many movies.
    
    Oh, PHILADELPHIA STORY and most Katharine Hepburn movies.  Her
    characters know exactly what they thought and why and were willing to
    come out and say it.  (I hate that throwaway line in PS where she tells
    her fiance she's just his "faithful dog, Tray," though. :-))
    
    Pam

"The Milagro Beanfield War" has Sonia Braga as a woman who runs a garage.
While she is a supporting character, Rosie is definitely her own person.

One of the things I liked about the role was that *nothing* was made of the
fact that she was a Hispanic woman in an untraditional job -- she just
*was*.

Bobbi

    I have always admired the women portrayed in the movie/book
    A Color Purple.
    I admire the strenght of character and individuallity of the women
    Struggling through so much.
    I always wonder what I would have done in the same situations
    Janet
    

    From the '30s, directed by Dorothy Arzner. 
    
    As befits such a low-budget Hollywood affair, it has its share of
    embarrassing moments (Maureen O'Hara "doing" ballet, saintly old lady
    run over by bus in order to advance plot), but it also includes:
    
    - Women supporting each other financially, emotionally, and in their
    careers.
    
    - Lucille Ball as a conniving intelligent golddigger with a realistic
    ego, who ISN'T thoroughly trampled underfoot at the end.
    
    - A scene in which the heroine, after having re-encountered the man of
    her dreams, found him to be incredibly wealthy, been taken out for a
    night on the town and a stroll together home at dawn, then gazes up at
    the last star in the sky from her lonely apartment and wishes...  
    
    ... "to be a great dancer."
    
    - A stirring courtroom speech in support of female solidarity.
    
    - Ralph Bellamy as a romantic hero!
    
    
    I'll have more later I'm sure...
    Ray

    Greta Garbo in "Two-faced Woman" and "Queen Christine".  Plus the
    aforementioned Sigourney Weaver, Katherine Hepburn, and "Steel Magnolias".
    
    (our dog is named "Katie", after K.H.)

    The Winger/Berenger flick mentioned earlier (about the FBI agent and
    the militant white supremacist) is BETRAYED.
    
    I don't see *enough* movies, so I can't help much here.
    
    DougO

Anti-sexism, anti-ageism, anti-war, pro-San Fransisco. What more could you want?
Oh - funny too!

	-- Charles

    Broadcast News - I thought Holly Hunter's character was a take charge,
    get it done kind of character who overcame the hurdles to get things
    done.
    
    Miss Firecracker - Holly Hunter again as a quirky, determined woman.
    
    Steve Martin and Michael Kane in the movie where the con artists get
    conned themselves by a woman con artist.
    
    Tony

>    Steve Martin and Michael Kane in the movie where the con artists get
>    conned themselves by a woman con artist.
    
    	"Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"

    :Amy

    re:.2 (and others)
    
    One of the remarkable things about ALIENS is not just that Ripley
    (Weaver) is such a strong character, but that the *three* strongest
    characters in the film are female. Newt was brave, intelligent,
    resourceful, and a strong survivor. And Vasquez was easily the most
    competent fighter in the entire platoon.
    
    With the possible exceptions of Corporal Hicks and Bishop, all of
    the men were either incompetent or ineffectual. And I say "with
    the possible exceptions of" because even Hicks and Bishop were
    only effectual relative to the rest. Hicks especially was a 
    competent follower, but not a leader.
    
    Another film along the same vein is WILLOW. I believe that it was
    Ann Broomhead who pointed out (in an earlier version of =wn= that
    in this film, all of the holders of true power were women). Too
    bad the film itself wasn't better.
    
    re:.10
    
    CROSS CREEK starred Mary Steenburgen as Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings,
    who is most famous as the author of THE YEARLING. The film (like
    the book it's based on) is autobiographical about the time she spent
    out in the boonies in Louisiana (I think it was) experiencing the
    events and people she came to write about. An excellent film, with
    a strong female lead (actor and character).
    
    re:.12
    
    I'm glad you said "most" Katherine Hepburn movies and not "all".
    For instance, in WOMAN OF THE YEAR, while her character does have
    a commanding personality, is intelligent and capable, and the equal
    of any man, she *does* in the end defer to her husband (played by
    Spencer Tracy). I thought it a terribly weak ending on an otherwise
    excellent film.
    
    --- jerry

    For the people who are writing in the names of the films alone, can you
    give us some idea about the female characters in the films and what it
    is about them that is worthy of note?  
    
    I'm not looking for a plot run-down but an analysis of what it is about
    this female character that makes her someone to value.  I.e., strength
    of character, intelligence, empathy, decisiveness, courage, acting to
    solve a problem, ... what?
    
    Thanks!
    Pam

    A friend suggested GORILLAS IN THE MIST, another Sigourney Weaver film. 
    Again (funny how many of these "admirable women" movies are
    biographies) her character is based on a woman who studied gorillas in
    the wild and fought to protect them from poachers who were hunting them
    to extinction.
    
    She is independent, adventurous (going off by herself to a completely
    unknown job and destination), active, persistent, intelligent, and
    ferociously dedicated to preserving the gorillas as a species.  
    
    Pam

    How about Desert Hearts?  Those two didn't talk much about men. 
    Seriously, I thought that was a very positive movie for women, with the
    character who was the english professor making a life for herself after
    her divorce.  And, the other female lead was extremely independant to
    begin with.
    
    I also agree with Housekeeping, which is one of my favorite movies,
    too.  I love Christine Lahti's character.
    
    Lorna
    

    I loved Labyrinth.
    
    aq
    

    Ann 
    
    So did I love Labyrinth, and I felt it was a very powerful metaphore
    for not only the coming of age of a young woman but her realizing that
    the male did not define or control her.
    
    Bonnie

    I loved "Shirley Valentine".  The actress (Pauline Collins?) is a
    one-woman show.
    
    Lorraine
    

    How about "NOWHERE TO HIDE" starring Amy Madigan.  Her charcacter is
    very strong (she's a Marine) and she manages to survive some impossible
    situations in this tense thriller...