Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
        Re:0 This really made me think..... What if a co-worker "came" out
    and I never expected it... What would I think-do-act-handle it?
    I guess it would change how I act towards this person... I would have
    more respect for her/him than I did before... Its got to be hard as
    hell to live a "lie"...
    
    REK

    I know only one person who is openly gay. No one else who hides has
    confided in me. That person is male. There has been the usual "talk"
    around here about this woman or that woman being gay, but these people
    are not openly so, or maybe they are and have learned to live with it
    so well that it doesn't effect their day to day activities at work. I
    know that I'm putting this all wrong but I'm not sure how to put it. 
    Anyway, I can't be sure how I'd react if a person I'd known for years
    came out and said they were gay. I know that I'd prbably be a bit hurt
    that they didn't confide in me earlier, but that is also a potentially
    wrong reaction if the person just realized it or was able to come to
    terms with it themselves. I would hope that I'd be able after the
    initial shock and I'm not denying that there wouldn't be a shock, be
    able to treat them just the same as always. A friend to the end and the
    end isn't an announcement of a sexual preference that was different
    from my own. 
    
    Also, once again I would have this NOTESFILE to thank for my increased
    tolerance toward different attitudes, actions, and lifestyles.
    
    Phil

re: .1 REK

>    more respect for her/him than I did before... Its got to be hard as
>    hell to live a "lie"...

This comment made me wonder:
Would you consider it living a "lie" if one didn't describe their
sexuality, but others assumed it was heterosexual?  (An awful lot of
gay people just keep their pronouns neutral.)

	MKV

    I don't recall that any of my gay friends "came out" to me. Most
    were already "out" by the time I got to know them. There's only
    one case I can think of in which I found out they (yes, one case,
    as they became a couple) were lesbian long after I knew either of
    them. But in this instance, it was a case in which I believe that
    they didn't find out themselves much before I did. Both had had
    relationships with men up to that point. Then, all of a sudden,
    they were a couple. I don't recall thinking much about it at the
    time. Sort of an "Oh, OK," and that was that. I don't recall that
    either made much of a fuss about it, at least in our general circle
    of friends. I know that one *did* keep it a secret amongst our
    co-workers (except for me, none of her co-workers were in her
    social circle). It was even something of a game, as her SO had a
    sexually ambiguous name, so we could even refer to the SO by name
    and no one realized that it was a she and not a he.
    
    (Actually, there was sort of a problem with regard to one of the
    two as far as I was concerned -- I happened to be attracted to
    her myself. But, that's life, I suppose. :-))
    
    --- jerry

    
    I must apologize for my bluntness, however, I really don't understand
    what all this *coming out* business is about.
    
    People's sexual preference or activity really does NOT interest
    me.  I just don't think it is any of my business anymore than what
    I do behind closed doors is anyone else's business.
    
    What is this need to tell or to *come out*?  Again, I do apologize
    and do not mean to sound insensitive to people's feelings, however,
    I really DO NOT feel it's anyones business.
    
    I have absolutely no desire to know people's sexual preference.
    I like to know people for who they are and the friendship we can
    give one another, not for any other detail.
    
    I don't want to ramble, but do want to express my thoughts as well.
    I would appreciate some feedback as to my feelings, and does anyone
    else feel as I do.
    
    Confused!

    re .6, if you ever thought you might have any interest in having
    sex with a person yourself, you'd be interested in their sexual
    preference wouldn't you?
    
    I just find people and their personal lives fascinating and I'm
    usually interested in any details they feel like telling me.  I
    figure it may help me understand them better, and relate to them
    better, as well.
    
    Lorna
    

    re: .6 ("Confused!)
    
    � People's sexual preference or activity really does NOT interest
    � me.  I just don't think it is any of my business anymore than what
    � I do behind closed doors is anyone else's business. . .I like to 
    � know people for who they are and the friendship we can give one another
    
    It occurs to me that if all the world felt as you do (something
    to be hoped for, IMO) the entire subject would have no meaning.
    The problem is that many people believe differently, so much so
    that they believe it's right to discriminate against and/or 
    persecute those people who engage in sexual practices they feel 
    are "bad".
    
    I believe the "coming out" process has more to do with politics
    than sexuality per se.  I see it as the process of an oppressed
    group trying to achieve political and social equality.  Just as
    Afro-Americans, for example, felt that in order to achieve equality,
    they had to call attention to their black-ness and emphasize that
    it was nothing to be ashamed of (remember "Say it loud: 'I'm black
    and I'm proud!'"?) and certainly no reason to be denied the rights
    accorded to other citizens, so gays feel� that it's important to
    be visibly validated.  
    
    It's a way of actively working towards a world in which all people
    believe as you do.
    
    Steve
    
    � Assuming I'm correctly understanding what the "coming out" 
      process is about

    
    re .6
    
    But if you think about it, you probably know a lot of people's
    preference. Simply by the gender of their partner. Think of how awful
    it would feel if you had to keep the gender of your partner a secret!
    Or didn't feel comfortable wearing a wedding ring. Or got fixed up with
    or hit on by members of the opposite sex whom you weren't interested
    in.
    
    I used to have that "its their private life" attitude, until I realized
    that its only the sexual activity which is private. The love that
    someone may have for another person shouldn't have to be a secret. Its
    probably one of the most important and influential things in that
    person's life. 
    
    C'mon. People have been parading their love from rooftops, on bended
    knee in restaurants, on billboards, in personals and in general, IN
    PUBLIC! Coming out can be the first step in saying "I'm in love with
    so-and-so and want the world to know!"  Straights say this all the
    time. Why should they have a monopoly on love?
    

    
    i have to agree with .6 (confused) as to what people want to do
    is their own business and no one elses. if they want to tell you
    about their sex life thats fine but i think to many people put their
    noses where they dont belong and assume more than they should.
    
    take people for what they are not for what you would like them to be
    
    frank

    Re .9
    
    Straights do not have a monopoly on love.  Just because a person
    is straight it does not mean that everyone 'approves' of their choice.
    My family was in a tissy over the selection of my partner; did I
    give a rat's a__!  I did what I had to do.  We loved each other.
    We shouted from the roof tops only to be ignored, but, we MADE EACH
    OTHER happy. We've been married for 9 years, much to the dismay
    of some relatives, and we've learned to have a circle of friends
    that please us.
    
    I'm sure that being a lesbian or gay or whatever is not easy, but,
    it's NO ONES BUSINESS.  
    
    Christians have Christian friends, Jews have Jewish friends, retailers
    have friends who are in retail, truck drivers have friends who drive
    trucks, and the list goes on and on.
    
    Is it really so important to be accepted by those who do not understand
    or approve?  Why are you all hitting your heads against a rock?
    Sounds to me almost like you cannot accept yourselves for what you
    are, so by looking for EVERYONE ELSEs approval things will change for
    you.
    
    Again, I'm probably rambling, however, just be happy with who you
    are and what you have.  To hell with those who cannot or do not
    accept or understand.
    
    Less Confused!

    re .11, you said that your whole family was in a tizzy over your
    selection of your partner, but maybe to some gays it may have seemed
    sometimes that the world was in a tizzy over their selection.  Maybe
    it's harder to ignore the whole world than it is to ignore just
    your family.
    
    I also think there's a difference between wanting to understand
    the way other people feel and being nosey.
    
    Lorna
    

    I think that if sexual orientation is part of a person, and I am close
    to that person, then knowing about that orientation brings me closer to
    them in a way.  It enables me to know more about appropriate
    conversations, and allows me to welcome a larger part of their life and
    their thoughts and feelings into my life.  
    
    I, of course, completely respect their right not to tell me if they so
    choose, but if they wish to share that with me, then I think it gives
    me a better picture of who they are....
    
    -Jody
    

    
    i believe the full expression is 'coming out of the closet'. closets
    imply things that are stored away, kept out of sight, hidden. as a
    rule heterosexual love/sex is not closeted. it is glorified, kept
    in our public sight almost constantly. homosexual love/sex, the
    'love that has no name', has been systematically denied and legally 
    proscribed, not to mention more violent attacks. for a person to
    admit, first to themselves and then to another, that their love is
    of this forbidden type requires great strength and trust.
    
    it's too easy to say,'it's none of my business, who cares?' the point
    is that our society really does care and a person who 'comes out'
    could be, quite literally, putting their life at risk by that action.
    
    that's why it's a 'big deal'.
    

re: .6
Coming out has very little to do with wanting to put one's
sexual habits on display.

It has *alot* to do with the world, all of society, religions, 
institutions, families, etc. telling you your are wrong or sick
because of who you love.  Only a very strong person, if anyone,
could continue to love in that situation if they thought they were
the only one.  But Coming Out reduces our invisibility to our
brothers and sisters, and gives us the kind of support we need to live
our lives in love.

Also, besides showing ourselves we're not invisible, we're not the only
ones, it shows the rest of the world -- it shows our parents that
maybe it's not just their one sick kid, it's also the friend they've
known and respected for years, their priest, their boss, their
co-workers -- so maybe it's not so weird or sick or wrong after all.

Unfortunately, in today's world, one is assumed heterosexual until
proven and proclaimed otherwise.  You are "out" as a heterosexual,
you tell us about "what you do in bed" every time you talk about your
dates, you announce your engagement or your wedding or your anniversary,
etc.  I have to yell it loud to say "No, I'm not like that, I'm different
than that and perfectly fine and happy, thank you; and I won't make believe
we're all alike and all straight".  Maybe someday there won't be
the assumption of hetersexuality putting up walls hiding us, and then
coming out will be meaningless.

	MKV

Re: why this need to tell.....

This note is not directed to anyone in particular. I am talking
to a generic "you." 

When I come out to you, I am not telling you what I "do behind
closed doors." I wouldn't tell you that if you asked me. And
furthermore, I have no interest in what you do behind your
closed doors.

There is a lot more to involved in sexual orientation than
the mechanics of love-making.

That woman I live with is not my roommate. She is my partner,
the person I share my life with. She is important to me, as your
spouse is to you.... I go to your weddings, I hear your family stories,
I cheer your relationship on, I want you to be happy. I hope
you're willing to offer me the same respect and support. Passing
her off as my roommate or pretending there is no one special in
my life makes me feel lousy. Sometimes it makes me feel like a
liar, a keeper of secrets. It always makes me feel at least an 
emotional arm's length away from you. It denies a large part of my life.
Imagine being married and hiding that fact because no one wants
to hear that you're a heterosexual.

There are things about my life that are unique because of my
sexual orientation. If you and I are acquaintances, there's no
need for you to know about those things. But if you and I are
friends, I hope you'll be interested in knowing how I feel
about them. I need to talk with a friend about things like:
what it feels like to sit through jokes about homosexuals; how
a news report about gay-bashing makes me feel; whether my family
accepts my partner; what it's like to know that if my partner
or I are seriously hurt, we may well end up with little or
nothing to say about the medical care the other one receives;
what it's like to be asked when you're going to find someone
to settle down with when you're quite settled already, thank you.

I'm not telling you my sexual orientation because I want to
talk about my sex life. I'm telling you my sexual orientation
because it affects nearly every aspect of my life. I'm telling you
about my sexual orientation because it hurts to
pretend I am something I am not. I'm telling you about my
sexual orientation because I'm different from you, but I'm just
as real, and I don't want to feel invisible. I'm telling you
my sexual orientation because there's no good reason to hide it.

If you do not want to know my orientation, there's not much
I can do about it. It ain't catching; and I promise you, you'll
survive.

Kathy

    The best reason I can think of for coming out is so that one no longer
    has to watch what s/he says and to whom... I think of the times, as a
    kid, when I told a fib, and the much more difficult task of covering up
    that lie. Coming out allows you to be you. 
    
    IMHO,
    Marge
    

    I remember talking to people, and since I'm very nosy, I was always
    very alert when the person I met was a.) attractive, b.) not interested
    in discussing the fine arts of buck hunting or chick chasing, c.)
    seemingly unattached.
    
    To me, it sounded like there was a HUGE hole. Now admittedly, there are
    some people who are delighted at being single and are not looking to be
    involved with anyone. But I don't meet them often. More often, the
    people who are dating will name their SO, the married people wear
    rings, and the single people are lamenting their fate. When I don't
    hear ANY of this I can assume one of two things: the person is gay, the
    person is involved in an illicit affair. Almost every time I've
    guessed, I've been right.
    
    To each person who says that they don't see any reason to discuss
    orientation, try to count: how many wedding invites you sent out if you
    are married, or how many people know that your SO is your SO if you're
    dating, or how many people know that you're looking, if you're looking.
    
    That's how many people a gay or lesbian would have to come out to in
    order to be on equivalent footing. If you had a big wedding, that's one
    helluva lot of people.
    
    This idea that sexual orientation is about what you do with your
    partner as opposed to who your partner might be is really off the mark.
    No, what you do is private. But who with shouldn't have to be.
    
    Frank, I think you said that your parents didn't approve of your wife.
    But at least they met her or know her name. Can you imagine never being
    able to tell your parents that you'd fallen in love AT ALL? I can't.

    Thank you for the different perspectives.
    
    I can now better understand.
    
    

    RE: 193.17 Kathy
    
    GREAT NOTE!!!!!
    
    Linda

    
    it is my understanding that the works of sappho have largely been
    lost (some speculate, and i'm inclined to agree, that 'lost' equals
    'systematically destoyed'; but i digress). does anyone know of a 
    good reference for those bits and pieces of the great poetess'
    art that have survived (almost exclusively in quotations by other 
    writers)?
    

    The only piece I've ever seen

	Mother, I cannot mind my wheel;
	My fingers ache, my lips are dry;
	Oh! If you felt the pain I feel!
	But oh, who ever felt as I?

    I had a book of Sappho's poems up until a couple of years ago, but
    don't remember the title...something simple, like The Poems of Sappho.  
    I read poetry about once every five years, but this collection was 
    definitely some of the most beautiful I've read.  
    
    If I brought it to the local book swap, chances are that it's still 
    there--I'll check.  In the meantime, you might try looking it up in 
    Books In Print in your local bookstore or library.  If it's no longer 
    in print, a large library should be able to do an electronic search of 
    other libraries.  If you at least find the title but it's out of print,
    try a book search service.  A local (non-chain) bookstore should have
    the names of a few of these.  These have worked for me in the past.
    
    Another alternative--there used to be a large woman's bookstore in New
    York which did mail order.  Presuming it's still in business, it's
    called Womanbooks.  You could give them a call.
    
    Nancy

From: [email protected] (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: NCOD Article in School Paper (LONG)
Date: 8 Oct 90 17:16:00 GMT
 
 
I'm on the staff of my school newspaper (The Acorn).  In the opinons
section this week, I wrote the following.  I got a good reaction, so
I thought that I'd post it to this newsgroup.  It's written towards
a straight audience.  Feel free to reprint.
 
-Tom
 
[Reprinted WITH permission from the Oct 5, 1990 Acorn]
 
NATIONAL COMING OUT DAY MEANS MUCH TO SOME
Tom Limoncelli,
Staff Writer
 
Mark your calendar: October 11 is National Coming Out Day (NCOD),
a day that gay, lesbian and bisexual rights groups encourage
people to take the "next step" in coming out.  Even if you are
straight there are reasons to mark your calendar (read on).
 
"Coming out" means many things to many people.  Coming out is,
initially, the process that one goes through when they come to
the self-realization that they are gay, lesbian, or bisexual.  It
may happen to a person at age 12, age 21, or even age 45!
 
The next step is to tell someone.  This can be the most difficult
part.  Imagine hiding the most very basic part of you.  Imagine
not telling any of your friends, your parents, your family.  All
the while they have plenty of time to build up assumptions about
you (how straight you are, etc.) and now you are going to shatter
their whole concept of you.
 
Usually this is a good experience.  In most cases the "outee" has
planned this for weeks, sometimes years.  They've mentioned gay
friends to make sure your reaction wasn't totally negative; and
now they spring the news.  Tears fall, hugs are hugged, and the
two (maybe a you and a friend) are now closer.
 
The third step is to tell one's parents.  This may be years down
the road for some people.  By now the person (you maybe?) have
told a couple close friends.  In fact, you're pretty damn good at
it, or so you think.  Parents tend to build up an entire image of
what their child are, what they are not, and what they will be in
the future.  Parents also often have a gross misconception of
homosexuality.  Fear of the unknown.  Fear that can make them
lash out at you.  This one is much harder than you can ever
imagine.  Maybe you almost get the courage to do it five or six
times; then finally it happens.
 
Once your family knows, it's no longer a worry who else will find
out.  Well, there are some, but you don't have to worry about
someone telling your parents.
 
Coming out is a life-long process.  The fourth and last stage is
dealing with every new person you meet.  Just about everyone will
assume that you are straight.  Don't you assume that everyone you
meet is straight?
 
If someone asks you what you did last weekend and you spent it
vacationing in Provincetown with your lover you either have to
make up a story ("Oh, my girlfriend and I went to the beach") or
come out to the person ("My boyfriend and I rented a condo in
Provincetown and saw the sights").
 
The picture I have painted is near-perfect, but there are bad
experiences.  A friend at William Patterson College came out to
his parents and was thrown out of his house.  Without their
support he was not able to return to school.  Don't think this
hasn't happened at Drew.
 
The other problem with coming out is that your boss may find out.
The University policy states that discrimination against sexual
orientation is not permitted.  Of course, once you get into the
"real world" you'll find bosses that are homophobic (fearful of
gays) or just plain anti-gay.  This might change soon.  It has
changed in Wisconsin.  As if by magic, now that Tom Kean is no
longer Governor, the New Jersey Gay Rights Bill (A634) has
finally been allowed to leave committee.  Even then, there will
always be homophobes and gay-bashers.  Be careful!
 
Another time to not come out is during an argument.  If a person
comes out as a weapon--"Oh yea?  What would you do if I told you
I'm gay?"--the reaction is almost guaranteed to be bad.
 
Why is it important to come out?  Certainly, it improves your
mental health.  If you are hiding something that basic to
yourself, it brings shame into your life.  That's certainly not
healthy.  Also, it makes you more productive.  No more company
time wasted trying to figure out excuses about where you go for
your social life or that a personal day that you took was to take
care of a sick lover.
 
So what if a person comes out to you?  There you are, in your
straight little room and a friend stops by.  When or if they tell
you, the first thing to do is give them a hug.  No matter how
macho you are, this is the universal sign language for "Thanks
for trusting me."
 
Why are they telling you this?  What does it all mean?  There are
two things to consider.  Remember that it may have taken years
for this person to bring him or herself to the point where they
can tell you this.  Therefore, don't feel guilty for taking a
couple years to get used to the fact.  The person is telling you
out of trust you.  It is a show of friendly love.  They aren't
hitting on you.  This is a springboard to a better understanding
that will let you become closer friends.
 
On October 11 the Oprah Winfrey show (4-5PM) will be on N.C.O.D.
This is a yearly event and is quite educational to straight and
non-straight people alike.  Pamphlets will also be handed out in
the University Center by members of The Alliance explaining the
purpose of N.C.O.D., as well as advice on coming out and what to
do if someone comes out to you.
 
The more people that come out, the less likely people will be
apathetic of gay-bashing and discrimination.  A friend of mine
designs electronics for a living.  Everyone in his department
knew he was the best designer they had; he was well liked and
respected.  One day he came out to the people of his office.
They had liked him before, they reasoned, why should any of that
change?  This also broke many of their stereotypes they had about
gay men.  He wasn't a hairdresser, nor did he wear women's
clothing.  A 20-person department was now enlightened.  Gay,
lesbian, and bisexual people don't want anything more than anyone
else; they just want to be excepted as normal (whatever that is)
and given a little respect.
 
The best part of the above story is that a few weeks later he
overheard the following conversation: Some people were arguing
politics and the subject of gay rights came up.  These people,
some of which had previously been homophobic, all agreed that gay
rights was a good thing.
 
They reasoned that they'd hate to see their good friend be
discriminated against or beaten up.  Their myths and
misconceptions had been removed.  They had realized that gay
people are just as normal as anyone else.  None of this would
have happened if someone had stayed in the closet.
 
October 11 is less than a week away.  Will you come out to
someone?  It takes a lot of planning, and it shouldn't be rushed.
Be careful.  Will you make it easy for your friends to come out
to you?  When the conversation is over how will you treat the
person?  I suggest a big hug...  followed by a little respect.
 
-Tom
-- 
[email protected]      Tom Limoncelli       "Freedom and justice
[email protected]     +1 201 408 5389             are opposites"
[email protected]   [email protected]              -me

    
    Greg told me I could move this to the FGD note as he put it in the FWO
    note by mistake.
    
    Justine
    
    
    
            <<< MOMCAT::PIGGY:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V3.NOTE;3 >>>
                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
================================================================================
Note 192.17          FWO:  Coming out/Being out as a Lesbian            17 of 17
NITTY::DIERCKS "Bent, in a straight world..."        19 lines   9-OCT-1990 14:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    >>And if one is not BGorL, but want to show support, what can one do?
    >>(On 10/11 or all the other days of the year?)
    
    One example:  If you hear fellow workings making derogatory comments
    		  about the g/l/b people in your unit -- approach them
    		  and make it clear that you don't appreciate those
    		  comments and remind them that comments they make
    		  "innocently" often do great harm to the self-esteem
    		  and productivity levels of those g/l/b people.
    
    	Greg (who plans to wear his NCOD button to work!)
    
    	Silence = Death
    
    	The death count is now OVER 100,000 and rising.
    
    

    
    gays and lesbians are the _best_ huggers.  and I don't care if
    I'm sounding stereotypical!
    
    so give it a try!  and don't be surprised if you get something
    more engulfing and warmer than a stiff-armed shoulder hug.  (I
    don't let people give me those kinds of hugs anymore.  they'd
    better be prepared to accept a _real_ hug from me!)
    
    Carla
    

    Sob!  Makes me miss those Carla-hugs even more.  :-(
    
    Nanci

    
    >gays and lesbians are the _best_ huggers.  and I don't care if
    >I'm sounding stereotypical!
    
    I'm inclined to agree!
    
    Some year-round ideas for supportive heterosexuals:
    
    o Don't assume anything!  The way a person looks, hir haircut,
      clothes, profession, how "classically masculine/feminine" s/he is,
      hir political viewpoints - none of these are a reliable indicator of 
      orientation.  Bisexuals may have obvious opposite-sex partners, and
      heterosexuals may not - the presence or lack of an opposite sex
      partner is not a reliable indicator of orientation.
    
    o Make it easy for friends and family to come out to you.  Talk about
      your political views; indicate through conversation, action, or
      objects (bumper stickers, buttons, posters, etc.) that you support
      gay rights, etc.  I find it easier to come out to someone whose
      political/social views are already known to me.  If you have just
      spent your coffee break chatting with me about your brother and his
      lover, or telling me that you marched with PFLAG (Parents and Friends 
      of Lesbians and Gays) I can be pretty sure that you are "safe" to
      come out to.
    
    o Treat your gay/lesbian/bi friends like any other.  Inquire after
      their spouses, tease them about their "heavy date" last weekend,
      invite them to bring dates/spouses to any event you would ask your
      heterosexual friends to bring their SOs to...
    
    

    >gays and lesbians are the _best_ huggers.  and I don't care if
    >I'm sounding stereotypical!

Oh, sure!  Yet another case of straight-bashing!  (^;

There are some of us straight people who give *great* hug!

E Grace

    
> There are some of us straight people who give *great* hug!
    
    Ok, E Grace, I believe you!  But you're gonna have to hug *everyone*
    at the next =wn= party now :-)
    
    *Actually*  I've noticed that =wn=ers in general give great hugs in
    in generous and unstinting portions, regardless of orientation!
    
    						/Rita
    
    

    
    Nanci, you are, without a doubt, the BEST hugger I've ever
    hugged in my entire life.  see how you blow my stereotypes
    away!  =8-)
    
    Carla
    

    
    
    There are many more of us than that!
    
    
    And yes, today especially, I agree that this feels like a supportive place!
    
    Justine

    just goes to show you what the flu can do.  I forgot it was today!
    
    We are all sisters -- hugs all 'round!
    
    Sara
    

    	� Hug a gay or lesbian. �
    
    I do that all the time. Well, not *all* the time. Only when I'm
    in the company of gay or lesbian friends that I feel like hugging.
    
    --- jerry

    
    And here's another one that was too disorganised to remember to change
    her -pn- yesterday!
    Just standin' up to be counted :-)
    
    'gail

    I apologise for not changing my PN yesterday also. Just forgot what day
    it was. Heck, I even forgot it was payday yesterday. 
    
    Phil (not G, L, or B. But wants to show support)

    It wasn't until I was lying in bed last night that I thought of
    an appropriate pn: "Friend of Sappho's family".  Sigh.
    
    						Ann B.

    I missed this and would love to have set my personal name to
    something supportive. Carla, next year would you want to put it into 
    Coming Events so we can mark our calendars?
    
    
    Eileen

    Yeah, I'm a supporter of Sappho, too.  I think she had a good idea even
    if it doesn't come naturally to me.  Unfortunately, I was too lazy to
    change my personal name yesterday.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    that I will!  good suggestion, Eileen.
    
    Carla
    

    
    Well, foo, I was in Bedford all week, generally busy all around, and 
    my unseen count is larger than I like.
    
    Friend of the sisters of Sappho, year 'round,
    
    CQ 

    my p/n will stay until I can think of something better....
    
    it's on all my daily reports, memos, etc.  just lettin' folks know
    everyday who I am..
    
    Nancy

    re: .45
    
    My unseen count is higher than my bank balance.
    
    --bonnie	

    
    Mine too, but last I knew, I was dipping into reserve credit!