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Conference turris::womannotes-v3

Title:Topics of Interest to Women
Notice:V3 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:REGENT::BROOMHEAD
Created:Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1078
Total number of notes:52352

113.0. "Discussion of NOW" by LEZAH::BOBBITT (we washed our hearts with laughter) Tue May 08 1990 09:57

    Continuation of the discussion of NOW and its tenets and beliefs....
    from topic 106...
    
    -Jody
    
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Note 106.65        Barbara Bush Rejected at Wellesley College           65 of 71
DECWET::JWHITE "the company of intelligent women"    14 lines   7-MAY-1990 18:28
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>    I cannot support what I see as "feminism" as defined by the *leaders* 
>    of such "feminit" organizations as NOW etc.  I refuse to believe
>    that I am somehow *bad* just because I am a man, or that a woman
>    who chooses to be a housewife is any less successful than a
>    woman who chooses a "career".  I believe in equal rights, but
>    I also believe that with equal rights comes equal responsibility.
>    I see a lot a screaming about equal rights from the "feminist"
>    movement, but precious little about equal responsibility.
 	
    	as a member of NOW i would be interested in documentary evidence
    	that any part of its leadership holds these views
       
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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113.1moved from 106LEZAH::BOBBITTwe washed our hearts with laughterTue May 08 1990 09:5725
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Note 106.68        Barbara Bush Rejected at Wellesley College           68 of 71
HEYYOU::ZARLENGA "never trust a big butt 'n a smile" 18 lines   7-MAY-1990 20:20
                                     -< ? >-
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.65>    as a member of NOW i would be interested in documentary evidence
.65>    that any part of its leadership holds these views

    I'm not a member, could you tell me:

	Does NOW support or not support Affirmative Action?

	Does NOW support or not support the associated (with AA) female
    hiring quotas, when they exist?
    
	Does NOW support or not support different physical tests for
    women and men in the military?

	Does NOW support or not support different parametrics for measuring
    women and men in the business world?

-mike z
113.2moved from 106LEZAH::BOBBITTwe washed our hearts with laughterTue May 08 1990 09:5730
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Note 106.69        Barbara Bush Rejected at Wellesley College           69 of 71
WMOIS::B_REINKE "sparks fly round your head"         24 lines   7-MAY-1990 21:41
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    Mike
    
    I support affirmitive action...I don't know if NOW does.
    I also support women being allowed to serve to the best
    of their abilities in the military. Using the standard
    of 'different physical abilities' is a red herring...most
    of the work in the military relies on mental not physical
    abilities in this day and age. Why not have categories
    in the military..everyone has to be as physically fit as
    is possible for their own body and those that meet higher
    standards are elliglibe for combat?
    
    and (this should be a separate note really) why except for
    combat soldiers - about 10% of the military today, should
    soldiers have to be selected for strength? seems to me given
    the high technology of the military world that brains should
    be the criterion..
    
    and how is it self evident that NOW is anything in particular
    given your choice of examples?
    
    it seems that they are rather widely divergent.
    
    Bonnie
113.3moved from 106LEZAH::BOBBITTwe washed our hearts with laughterTue May 08 1990 09:5823
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Note 106.70        Barbara Bush Rejected at Wellesley College           70 of 71
HEYYOU::ZARLENGA "look, I've got 6 under Q!"         17 lines   7-MAY-1990 23:13
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.69>    and how is it self evident that NOW is anything in particular
.69>    given your choice of examples?

	It isn't, not yet.

	When I get the answers to those questions, and a few others
    that I suspect I already know, then I will say what I think are
    the faults with NOW, and why I don't label myself a feminist, but
    instead, a humanist.

	Until then, what I've been told about NOW has is all hearsay.

	If any of this deserves a new note, please go ahead and start
    one (or more) and I'll meet you there.

-mike z
113.4BSS::BLAZEKin the violet hour to the violent soundTue May 08 1990 10:085
How does one become a member of NOW?

Carla

113.5GEMVAX::CICCOLINITue May 08 1990 10:366
    My question, too, Carla!  I'm in Massachusetts and I've called 
    the Worcester NOW office, (located in the Salem Square YWCA), 
    several times and only got a general recording.  I visited the 
    Y and the folks at the front desk could tell me nothing.  Is
    anyone a member of the local chapter?  How can I attend a meeting?
    I think I can be of use to them.
113.6Worcester NOWASHBY::FOSTERTue May 08 1990 10:437
    
    I believe the meetings are held at the Worcester YWCA on the second
    Wednesday of the month. The info might be in V-2. I have attended a
    meeting or two, I know some members of the Worcester chapter, and I'm
    on their mailing list. I will try to get more info for you, Carla.
    
    'ren
113.7pointersLEZAH::BOBBITTwe washed our hearts with laughterTue May 08 1990 11:1015
    Information/discussion about NOW can also be found at:
    
    Womannotes-V1
    398 - NOW
    
    Womannotes-V2
    57 - NOW member feedback (FWO)
    58 - NOW member feedback (FGD)
    686 - Joining NH NOW
    688 - Joining MASS NOW
    711 - NOW political party?
    
    
    -Jody
    
113.8the double standard of "feminism"CSC32::HADDOCKAll Irk and No PayTue May 08 1990 11:228
    from 95.53  Coccolini
    
    > The kids have to get fed somehow.  A woman has to pay her rent 
    > if Princ Charming hasn't come alont go do it.
    
    I rest my case.
    
    fred();
113.9CADSE::MACKINJim, CAD/CAM Integration FrameworkTue May 08 1990 11:232
    Worcester NOW meets on the second Tuesday of each month at the
    Worcester YWCA at 7:00.
113.10re .8 Huh?????GEMVAX::CICCOLINITue May 08 1990 12:041
    
113.11See 106.67CSC32::CONLONLet the dreamers wake the nation...Tue May 08 1990 12:305
    
    	RE: .10  Sandy
    
    	It was another slogan.
    
113.12Another Huh???? Fred, what's your point?TLE::D_CARROLLThe more you know the better it getsTue May 08 1990 14:383
But I still don't understand.

D!
113.13$.02 and then someCLUSTA::KELTZYou can&#039;t push a ropeTue May 08 1990 15:1925
    At risk of putting words in Fred's mouth that don't belong there...
    
    The words he extracted from Sandy's note are indicative of an
    attitude that women *may* have to support themselves if they can't
    get a man to do it for them.  (As opposed to believing that supporting
    yourself is part of being a responsible adult, and getting someone else
    to support you so you can have a non-paying career is a luxury.)
    
    There are a lot of women who were raised this way.  There are a lot
    of little girls being raised this way today -- look at recent surveys
    of junior-high girls that indicate their "career plans" are to marry
    a rich man.
    
    Fred, I don't think Sandy was espousing this attitude as "a woman's
    right" -- at least, I'd be very surprised if she was.  The words
    you extracted are similar to words I have used myself to try to wake
    up my *anti*-feminist friends (both men and women) who are teaching
    their daughters that they should expect a man to take care of them for
    the rest of their lives:  If you can't support equal opportunity on
    philosophical grounds, would you at least support it for practical
    reasons?
    
    Beth
    
    
113.14GEMVAX::CICCOLINITue May 08 1990 15:295
    Thanx, Beth.  You got it!  I sent Fred mail asking for clarification
    and suggesting that perhaps he wanted this to go into the "discussion"
    string started by Mike Zarlenga instead of here.  No response yet.
    
    Back to NOW.
113.16idlingDECWET::JWHITEthe company of intelligent womenTue May 08 1990 16:223
    
    i wonder if anyone will answer my request in .0
    
113.17One datumREGENT::BROOMHEADDon&#039;t panic -- yet.Tue May 08 1990 18:479
    Mike,
    
    I know that in Pennsylvania, NOW campaigned very hard to have
    the auto insurance for women and men charged using the same
    metric for both.
    
    They failed.  I think because the governor rejected it.
    
    						Ann B.
113.18my 2 cents or less worthIAMOK::ALFORDI&#039;d rather be fishingWed May 09 1990 12:3035
    
    re: mike's questions
    
    Each local NOW chapter is a little different, and may or maynot
    support all the same things as national NOW claims to support.  ...
    so answering your questions are difficult.  Also, I haven't
    been an active member in many years, so things may have changed.
    
    But, I'll give it a shot...though this is OPINION only, as I
    don't have the 'bylaws' or whatever in my possession.
    
    as for AA, i do think NOW is a strong supporter
    as for quotas...I don't know...I would guess yes, but don't
    	really have any idea
    as for the military, I believe what has been suggested is altering
    	the 'rules' for everyone, not just women, to make it more possible
    	for women to be accepted into higher/combat/different positions.
    as for business metrics, my impression is that all should be judged
    	by the same rules, using the same measurements (assuming of
    	course they are reasonable/doable/equitable metrics)
    
    thats my 'take' on it Mike, but as I said, I'm not in possession of
    any 'official' documents stating their position one way or another.
    But, like any organization, just cuz that's the platform doesn't mean
    all members are supporters.  I disagree with many of NOW's public
    statements, though not with most of their activities...typical problem
    of coverage going to the more outrageous while the day to day 
    stuff gets passed over.  
    
    And one more thing, NOW does not equal F(f)eminism any more than
    Sears equals the ideal department store.  Different strokes for
    different folks, and all that...
    
    deb
    
113.21there's an address to write toULTRA::ZURKOa million ways to get things done.Mon May 14 1990 16:433
I joined now via my quiries in V2. If anyone is still having problems
contacting national NOW, drop me a line.
	Mez
113.22NOW statement of purposeGONT::HetrickFri Jun 15 1990 16:15254
     Re: .20

	  Here's the statement of purpose from when NOW was founded.

	  Since NOW is a grass-roots organization (the national organiza-
     tion is interested in what the state delegates tell it to be interest-
     ed in, the state chapters in what the local chapters tell them, and
     the local chapters in what the members tell them), it's hard to get a
     statement of "NOW's doctrine."  The closest thing to that would be the
     record of the national convention, which is more-or-less equivalent to
     a political party's platform.  That is a fair sized book, though, and
     I shudder at the thought of typing it in.

			       Brian Hetrick

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

			    NOW Statement of Purpose
      (Adopted at the organizing conference in Washington, DC, October 29,
				      1966)

     We, men and women who hereby constitute ourselves as the National
     Organization for Women, believe that the time has come for a new
     movement toward true equality for all women in America, and toward a
     fully equal partner-ship of the sexes, as part of the world-wide
     revolution of human rights now taking place within and beyond our
     national borders.

     The purpose of NOW is to take action to bring women into full
     participation in the mainstream of American society now, exercising
     all the privileges and responsibilities thereof in truly equal
     partnership with men.

     We believe the time has come to move beyond the abstract arguments,
     discussion and symposia over the status and special nature of women
     which has raged in America in recent years; the time has come to
     confront, with concrete action, the conditions that now prevent women
     from enjoying the equality of opportunity and freedom of choice which
     is their right, as individual Americans, and as human beings.

     NOW is dedicated to the proposition that women, first and foremost,
     are human beings, who, like all other people in our society, must have
     the chance to develop their fullest human potential.  We believe that
     women can achieve such equality only by accepting to the full the
     challenges and responsibilities they share with all other people in
     our society, as part of the decision-making mainstream of American
     political, economic and social life.

     We organize to initiate or support action, nationally, or in any part
     of this nation, by individuals and organizations, to break through the
     silken curtain of prejudice and discrimination against women in
     government, industry, the professions, the churches, the political
     parties, the judiciary, the labor unions, in education, science,
     medicine, law, religion and every other field of importance in
     American society.

     Enormous changes taking place in our society make it both possible and
     urgently necessary to advance the unfinished revolution of women
     toward equality, now.  With a life span lengthened to nearly 75 years
     it is no longer either necessary or possible for women to devote the
     greater part of their lives to child-rearing; yet childbearing and
     rearing which continues to be a most important part of most women's
     lives--still is used to justify barring women from equal professional
     and economic participation and advance.

     Today's technology has reduced most of the productive chores which
     women once performed in the home and in mass-production industries
     based upon routine unskilled labor.  This same technology has
     virtually eliminated the quality of muscular strength as a criterion
     for filling most jobs, while intensifying American industry's need for
     creative intelligence.  In view of this new industrial revolution
     created by automation in the mid-twentieth century, women can and must
     participate in old and new fields of society in full equality -- or
     become permanent outsiders.

     Despite all the talk about the status of American women in recent
     years, the actual position of women in the United States has declined,
     and is declining, to an alarming degree throughout the 1950's and
     60's.  Although 46.4% of all American women between the ages of 18 and
     65 now work outside the home, the overwhelming majority -- 75% -- are
     in routine clerical, sales, or factory jobs, or they are household
     workers, cleaning women, hospital attendants.  About two-thirds of
     Negro women workers are in the lowest paid service occupations.
     Working women are becoming increasingly -- not less -- concentrated on
     the bottom of the job ladder.  As a consequence full-time women
     workers today earn on the average only 60% of what men earn, and that
     wage gap has been increasing over the past twenty-five years in every
     major industry group.  In 1964, of all women with a yearly income, 89%
     earned under $5,000 a year; half of all full-time year round women
     workers earned less than $3,690; only 1.4% of full-time year round
     women workers had an annual income of $10,000 or more.

     Further, with higher education increasingly essential in today's
     society, too few women are entering and finishing college or going on
     to graduate or professional school.  Today, women earn only one in
     three of the B.A.'s and M.A.'s granted, and one in ten of the Ph.D.'s.

     In all the professions considered of importance to society, and in the
     executive ranks of industry and government, women are losing ground.
     Where they are present it is only a token handful.  Women comprise
     less than 1% of federal judges; less than 4% of all lawyers; 7% of
     doctors.  Yet women represent 51% of the U.S. population.  And,
     increasingly, men are replacing women in the top positions in
     secondary and elementary schools, in social work, and in libraries --
     once thought to be women's fields.

     Official pronouncements of the advance in the status of women hide not
     only the reality of this dangerous decline, but the fact that nothing
     is being done to stop [it].  The excellent reports of the President's
     Commission on the Status of Women and of the State Commissions have
     not been fully implemented.  Such Commissions have power only to
     advise.  They have no power to enforce their recommendations; nor have
     they the freedom to organize American women and men to press for
     action on them.  The reports of these commissions have, however,
     created a basis upon which it is now possible to build.

     Discrimination in employment on the basis of sex is now prohibited by
     federal law, in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  But
     although nearly one-third of the cases brought before the Equal
     Employment Opportunity Commission during the first year dealt with sex
     discrimination and the proportion is increasing dramatically, the
     Commission has not made clear its intention to enforce the law with
     the same seriousness on behalf of women as of other victims of
     discrimination.  Many of these cases were Negro women, who are the
     victims of the double discrimination of race and sex.  Until now, too
     few women's organizations and official spokesmen have been willing to
     speak out against these dangers facing women.  Too many women have
     been restrained by the fear of being called ``feminist.''

     There is no civil rights movement to speak for women, as there has
     been for Negroes and other victims of discrimination.  The National
     Organization for Women must therefore begin to speak.

     WE BELIEVE that the power of American law, and the protection
     guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution to the civil rights of all
     individuals, must be effectively applied and enforced to isolate and
     remove patterns of sex discrimination, to ensure equality of
     opportunity in employment and education, and equality of civil and
     political rights and responsibilities on behalf of women as well as
     for Negroes and other deprived groups.

     We realize that women's problems are linked to many broader questions
     of social justice; their solution will require concerted action by
     many groups.  Therefore, convinced that human rights for all are
     indivisible, we expect to give active support to the common cause of
     equal rights for all those who suffer discrimination and deprivation,
     and we call upon other organizations committed to such goals to
     support our efforts toward equality for women.

     WE DO NOT ACCEPT the token appointment of a few women to high-level
     positions in government and industry as a substitute for a serious
     continuing effort to recruit and advance women according to their
     individual abilities.  To this end, we urge American government and
     industry to mobilize the same resources of ingenuity and command with
     which they have solved problems of far greater difficulty than those
     now impeding the progress of women.

     WE BELIEVE that this nation has a capacity at least as great as other
     nations, to innovate new social institutions which will enable women
     to enjoy true equality of opportunity and responsibility in society,
     without conflict with their responsibilities as mothers and
     homemakers.  In such innovations, America does not lead the Western
     world, but lags by decades behind many European countries.  We do not
     accept the traditional assumption that a woman has to choose between
     marriage and motherhood, on the one hand, and serious participation in
     industry or the professions on the other.  We question the current
     expectation that all normal women will retire from job or profession
     for 10 to 15 years, to devote their full time to raising children,
     only to reenter the job market at a relatively minor level.  This, in
     itself, is a deterrent to the aspirations of women, to their
     acceptance into management or professional training courses, and to
     the very possibility of equality of opportunity or real choice, for
     all but a few women.  Above all, we reject the assumption that these
     problems are the unique responsibility of each individual woman,
     rather than a basic social dilemma which society must solve.  True
     equality of opportunity and freedom of choice for women requires such
     practical, and possible innovations as a nationwide network of
     child-care centers, which will make it unnecessary for women to retire
     completely from society until their children are grown, and national
     programs to provide retraining for women who have chosen to care for
     their own children full-time.

     WE BELIEVE that it is as essential for every girl to be educated to
     her full potential of human ability as it is for every boy -- with the
     knowledge that such education is the key to effective participation in
     today's economy and that, for a girl as for a boy, education can only
     be serious where there is expectation that it will be used in society.
     We believe that American educators are capable of devising means of
     imparting such expectations to girl students.  Moreover, we consider
     the decline in the proportion of women receiving higher and
     professional education to be evidence of discrimination.  This
     discrimination make take the form of quotas against the admission of
     women to colleges and professional schools; lack of encouragement by
     parents, counsellors and educators; denial of loans or fellowships; or
     the tradtional or arbitrary procedures in graduate and professional
     training geared in terms of men, which inadvertently discriminate
     against women.  We believe that the same serious attention must be
     given to high school dropouts who are girls as to boys.

     WE REJECT the current assumption that a man must carry the sole burden
     of supporting himself, his wife, and family, and that a women is
     automatically entitled to lifelong support by a man upon her marriage,
     or that marriage, home and family are primarily woman's world and
     responsibility -- hers, to dominate -- his to support.  We believe
     that a true partnership between the sexes demands a different concept
     of marriage, an equitable sharing of the responsibilities of home and
     children and of the economic burdens of their support.  We believe
     that proper recognition should be given to the economic and social
     value of homemaking and child-care.  To these ends, we will seek to
     open a reexamination of laws and mores governing marriage and divorce,
     for we believe that the current state of ``half-equality'' between the
     sexes discriminates against both men and women, and is the cause of
     much unnecessary hostility between the sexes.

     WE BELIEVE that women must now exercise their political rights and
     responsibilities as American citizens.  They must refuse to be
     segregated on the basis of sex into separate-and-not-equal ladies'
     auxiliaries in the political parties, and they must demand
     representation according to their numbers in the regularly constituted
     party committees -- at local, state, and national levels -- and in the
     informal power structure, participating fully in the selection of
     candidates and poltical decision-making, and running for office
     themselves.

     IN THE INTERESTS OF THE HUMAN DIGNITY OF WOMEN, we will protest, and
     endeavor to change, the false image of women now prevalent in the mass
     media, and in the texts, ceremonies, laws, and practices of our major
     social institutions.  Such images perpetuate contempt for women by
     society and by women for themselves.  We are similarly opposed to all
     policies and practices -- in church, state, college, factory, or
     office -- which, in the guise of protectiveness, not only deny
     opportunities but also foster in women self-denigration, dependence,
     and evasion of responsibility, undermine their confidence in their own
     abilities and foster contempt for women.

     NOW WILL HOLD ITSELF INDEPENDENT OF ANY POLITICAL PARTY in order to
     mobilize the political power of all women and men intent on our goals.
     We will strive to ensure that no party, candidate, president, senator,
     governor, congressman, or any public official who betrays or ignores
     the principle of full equality between the sexes is elected or
     appointed to office.  If it is necessary to mobilize the votes of men
     and women who believe in our cause, in order to win for women the
     final right to be fully free and equal human beings, we so commit
     ourselves.

     WE BELIEVE THAT women will do most to create a new image of women by
     acting now, and by speaking out in behalf of their own equality,
     freedom, and human dignity -- not in pleas for special privilege, nor
     in emnity toward men, who are also victims of the current,
     half-equality between the sexes -- but in an active, self-respecting
     partnership with men.  By so doing, women will develop confidence in
     their own ability to determine actively, in partnership with men, the
     conditions of their life, their choices, their future and their
     society.
113.24GONT::HetrickFri Jun 15 1990 17:367
     Re: .23

	  Mark, I am told that there is some command qualifier on the NOTES
     command (/NOWIND or some such) that causes the bug to which you allude
     not to be exhibited.

			       Brian Hetrick
113.25ROLL::GASSAWAYInsert clever personal name hereFri Jun 15 1990 17:567
    NOTES/NODECWINDOWS
    
    OR 
    
    NOT/NOD
    
    for short.
113.26sounds good to meCADSYS::PSMITHfoop-shootin&#039;, flip city!Fri Jun 15 1990 22:366
    Well, in any case, THANKS, BRIAN, for typing it in!!  
    
    NOW's statements completely correspond to my understanding of feminism
    and my perception of myself as a feminist.  
    
    Pam