Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
    
    	I just saw the movie "The Accused" and did something I
    	haven't done in a long time - threw up (at the end of it).
    
    	And I could have just put headphones on instead of 
    	getting curious about what I was hearing in another room.
    	dumb move.
    
    

	Last night on CNN I saw a segment on "hate crimes" against
	gays.  Previously, I've heard discussion concerning legis-
	lation regarding the penalties for "hate crimes" committed
	against gays, blacks, jews, etc.

	Shouldn't rape fall under that category of "hate crimes"?

	Has anyone read that it is being included in the category of
	hate crimes against women?  (I haven't; I'm real surprised.)

						nancy b.

	p.s.  From a bumper sticker posted at the Gay Task Force
	      Against Violence office:

			Crime doesn't pay;  Victims do

    RE: .3
    
    What an idea! I agree - it probably should. But we have to realize that
    it's impossible to get people to understand that a) women are hated 
    sociatally or even b) women are hated by their male
    lovers/husbands/ex-husbands. That is apparently not "hate". Some might
    even define it as "love" or "sex". But certainly never "hate".
    
    

    Perhaps a campaign to include rape as a hate-crime would, at
    least, raise awareness of the phenomenon.

    
    sounds like an extremely compelling idea to me!
    

    Newsweek's cover this week is: "The Mind of the Rapist".  I skimmed the
    article when I saw it in a bookstore, but don't have many details. 
    Worst was that the rate of increase in rape has been FOUR TIMES the
    rate of increase of other violent crimes in the last decade.  The
    only grim hope one clutches from that is maybe the percentage of 
    women who choose to report their rapes is increasing, and the hidden
    crime is becoming ever more visible (my interpretation, not Newsweek's).
    
    I flashed on that title because I was re-reading Brownmiller again last
    night, in the section where she is discussing rape in the southern
    racial context; wherein rape of a white woman was the perpetual charge
    used by white males to excuse lynching blacks.  She quoted a section
    of Eldridge Cleaver's biography (Soul On Ice) wherein he identified
    the torment he felt when reading of one such case, of a 14 year old
    youth murdered; and how he became a rapist out of protest at that
    injustice.  The insight into one 'mind of a rapist' struck me then,
    as did Newsweek's title today.  One section of the Newsweek article
    mentioned that common to all rapists was some core of rage...and it
    also identified the common factor of absolutely horrendous childhoods,
    in one case citing a 1982 Oregon study that found 80 percent of rapists
    had been abused as children.
    
    DougO

    It is my sincere (if grim) hope that women are reporting it more 
    frequently, as I said before.
    
    DougO

          The Newsweek article with cover story "The Mind of the Rapist"
          discussed research describing the 3 motivational types of
          rapists:

          1) Anger -- getting even for "some wrong he feels has been done
          to him, by life, by his victim at the time".  Usually not
          premeditated and is impulsive.  Impulse drives rapist into using
          excessive force on victim.  Anger rapists can be the most
          ruthless.

          2) Power -- a form of compensation, committed usually by men who
          feel unsure of their competence.  Rape gives them a sense  of
          mastery and control.

          3) Sadistic -- eroticized aggression.   Forcible sex excites the
          rapist in ways that consensual sex can't. "If the anger
          components of aggression are eroticized, then you see sadistic
          acts, such as deliberate sexual torture, using an instrument to
          rape the victim". (ex:  the Glen Ridge, N.J., football players
          who sexually assaulted a mentally impaired women with a miniature
          baseball bat)
          ...
          "When compared against other nations, the U.S. leads the way with
          a rape rate 4 times that of Germany, 13 times as much as England,
          20 times as much as Japan."

          That issue of Newsweek (July 23) certainly had just about the
          most horrid cover photo/image they could have designed to
          accompany the story.  My reaction at first glance was to tighten
          the relevant sphincter muscles, contract stomach muscles, and
          turn away.
                                                  nancy b.

          p.s.  Does anyone know if tightening of sphincter muscles upon
          being frightened is a known phenomena amongst women or is that
          just another [side effect]?

          Dorian asked in another topic about the term "simple rape".

          I don't think it has anything to do with the mental facilities of
          the victim.  Moreover, my understanding is that it primarily
          concerns the prior relationship between victim and attacker, much
          more than it does the violence of the incident.  I've read of
          rape cases where the victim was badly beaten, but the judge/
          prosecutors/jury/etc... still regarded the incident as "simple
          rape" because there was a prior consensual relationship between
          victim and rapist.

          Rape is "aggravated rape" is when:

          (extrinsic violence used : knives, guns, beatings)   ||or||
          (multiple assailants)   ||or||
          (NO prior relationship between victim and rapist)

          Rape becomes "simple rape" when:

          (non of "aggravating" circumstances above are present)  &and&
          (the rapist knew his victim)

                                                       nancy b.

    re .9 See the new (Aug. 90) Readers Digest for the story of
    one rape victim who chose to speak out. 

re.10 nancy b.

the sphincter contraction is a common 'flight' reaction from what I've read.
I had it before.  It became a more common reaction after, even at the vaguest
threat -- confrontational business meetings, near collisions on the highway,
being 'crowded' by strangers -- so I suppose the answer to your question is
a definitive 'Both.'

    
    	Why do the people supporting the defendants of the 
    	Central Park jogger case  get off on chanting the victim's 
    	name behind the reporters on TV ?
    
    						nancy b.

    Although I don't condone such ignorance Nancy, a simple phrase will
    suffice....  "Free Speech"......
    
    I personally like the word "buttheads" but hey, what do I know?
    
    

    Al,
    
    They don't seem to be doing it in the name of free speech; they
    are using that as the shield behind which they are doing it.
    
    So...
    
    						Ann B.

    I dont understand what you mean Ann, can you clarify?

    Sounds to me like the chanters are trying to harass/intimidate
    the victim, while hiding behind the first amendment. 

    That was what I was trying to say.  Guess it didnt come out right....

    How awful for you, Gale.
    
    *hugs*
    
    						=maggie

    Gale,
    
    I'll add Becky to my prayer list..
    
    and from what I've been told, it takes a very long time to heal..
    
    lots of love
    
    Bonnie

	re: 49.128 the abortion topic  (Ren Foster)

> Try not to forget what a horribly shattering experience rape or incest is. 

	Ren, THANK YOU for saying that.  
	
	I don't know what's going on, but the conversations I've been
	in / listening to / trying not to listen to / during the past 
	few weeks involving rape have just left my stomach in knots.

	The topic is brought up, and the conversation ***immediately***
	(not just gradually) turns to :

	o  whether or not a "whore" (their term) can be raped
	o  assertions that women really want to be raped
	o  how women "ask" to be raped
	o  how women who say they have been raped are just out to get men
	etc...

	IMO, these attitudes are _DIRECTLY ACCOUNTABLE and RESPONSIBLE_ for
	the FBI statistic that the chances of a rapist getting caught _and_
	convicted are 1 in 605.  

	Did anyone else hear on CNN over the last weekend about the judge
	in Florida that let a man that _pleaded guilty_ to rape go free
	(on probation) because "I have a hard time putting all the blame
	on him", and [something like] "I feel sorry for anyone that would
	[go after?] such a pitiful woman".  [at which point I threw my
	pillow at the TV screen]

	The woman he was referring to, the rape victim, was older, and probably
	not conventionally attractive to the judge.  Hence, she wasn't a real
	victim, and if she's not a real victim, he didn't commit a real crime,
	or at least a bad enough crime that must be punished.  

	Last I heard about this, the governor of FL was asking the judge 
	to resign, but this was last weekend...


	Till the attitudes like those change, I don't think I would ever
	encourage someone who's been raped to go through a trial.
	(Don't Scream...Ever)

	Hmmm... Maybe a boycott.  Rape victims boycotting trials, and
	getting justice in some other manner.

	Yea, I can just hear the comments - they're so predictable.  
	But I'm really torqued about this right now.  If you are to 
	dismiss the above as nonsense, you had d*mn well have 
	something better in mind.

						nancy b.

>	Hmmm... Maybe a boycott.  Rape victims boycotting trials, and
>	getting justice in some other manner.

						nancy b.,

    
    	Might be the time to watch THE LADIES CLUB.  I think it is
    	still available at the video stores.  If not, let me know
    	and you can borrow my copy.

    	justme....jacqui

re.52.6,.7

it's such a standard question, I would wonder at the competency of the
legal professional who neglected to ask it.

I must have been asked this one by four or five dedicated law-enforcement,
medical and legal types prior to being charged with accusing the man 
'frivolously.'

I didn't offend any judge or jury as my day in court was not to be ...
I only offended dedicated law enforcement, medical & legal professionals.

  Annie

    Sick-o.  (That a woman who has been raped is asked if she experienced
    orgasm).
    	Linda

    Sounds like one of the after-effects is having to deal with
    the slimiest members of the legal profession.

    	A few years ago, I had the misfortune of testifying at the
    	sentence hearing of a confessed child molester (his victims
    	were little boys - 3, 6, and 10.)  He admitted molesting the
    	two older ones - the older boys witnessed the molestation of
    	the 3 year old, but there was no charge.

    	While none of the young boys were put on the stand, I did see
    	a 16 year old boy testify about an attempt the molester made
    	on him before he got to the younger boys.  The purpose was to
    	show (for the sentencing hearing) that this behavior was not a
    	one-time shot, but an on-going story of a pedophile.

    	If you've never seen a child torn to pieces on a witness stand,
    	it's not a pleasant experience.  A feature reporter was in the
    	courtroom at the time and was so incensed by what he saw done
    	to this boy that he wrote a scathing article about it (with no
    	names mentioned.)  After the lunch break, he told us that he
    	had permission to take the article within an inch of a lawsuit
    	(as directed by his editor.)

    	The molester still only got 90 days in county jail (confessed and
    	all!!), of which he served 45 days.  Later, though, he broke his
    	probation and wound up in the state prison for a 5 year sentence.

    	This guy worked for (guess who) while the molestations were going on.
    	No kidding.

    Gale -
    
    Huge hugs to both you and Becky.  
    
    Best of luck with JH - sounds like they're having a major league
    screw-up in this case.
    
    Alison

    
    
    	I guess it's not a good sign o' the times when 
    	rape-crisis center group counseling sessions
    	are _full_ through April of next year.
    
    				nancy b.
    

    with regards to .30 and .31:
    
    another way to look at it is that in the past, women may have
    accepted a lot of blame for what happened, and now they are seeing
    that what happened is not a punishment for what they did, so they
    can seek out help to get over it.
    
    well, that was my reaction when i read .30....
    

    See this week's people magazine on date rape.
    
    BJ

          Last week I participated in a group counseling session, the one
          that was full last year.  A space opened up. It was the first of
          8 sessions.  There were 5 of us and 2 facilitators.

          It was a shocking experience.  The scariest aspect was realizing
          that their rapes happened within a 30 minute radius of where I
          _live_ -- a very safe suburb with a very low crime rate.  Of
          course anything can happen anywhere, but what happened to me
          happened so far away.   And I know I would definitely be able to
          successfully protect myself in the same situation as before, and
          I would likely be able to protect myself in many other
          (but not all) scenarios.

          One woman's trial starts soon, and I was able to give her tips on
          what the lawyer's strategy is and how she can answer questions so
          that it doesn't work, and what she shouldn't have to answer
          (i.e., her lawyer should object.).

          This will sound dumb, but the next scariest thing was that they
          were real flesh and blood women -  a mother, a student, an
          engineer, a minister, a nanny, someone just laid-off her job -
          not statistics on a page.

          The session has brought back so many awful memories very quickly.
          I've had nightmares almost every night since.  I've cried lots
          for the other women.  What they say hurts so much to hear.  I'm
          thinking about not going back.

                                              	         nancy b.

Referencing 53.35 (Nancy):

   I have avoided making entries on this subject, but your entry has 
"touched" me in such a way that I must respond.

   I remember very vividly the experience of being robbed and beaten when I
was in high school. I still feel the incredible anger that I felt when I 
realized that nothing was going to be done to the individuals who forced me
into an abandoned building and used me as a soccer ball (being in a poor
Black neighborhood that depended for its law enforcement on white cops who
didn't give a hoot about us, it was pretty clear when I reported it that
nothing would be done). For more than four years afterward, I had to live
with the fact that I knew where my muggers lived, that they sometimes smoked
pot right outside the entrance to my building, and there wasn't a thing I
could do to redress the pain, fear, and other harm that they had brought into
my life.

   The muggers were the primary reason for my interest in guns, my study
of various dangerous martial arts, and certain "less than charitable"
attitudes towards violent criminals.

   I mention all this because one good thing came out of the whole mess: I
have (very unpleasent) memories that enable me to relate to, and help, many
people who have had similar experiences. One person I know is still alive
indirectly because of the things I experienced.

   I have always quietly admired you, because I see a strength in you that 
defies all that you have experienced. I am greatly saddened that your
painful memories were so invoked, and while it is unlikely that I will 
ever experience what you did, I can relate to the pain of remembering that
you experienced. I experience similar things when I meet people who have 
experienced what I did.

   Hold on. Hold on to that inner strength you have. And know that there
is at least one person who, from a distance, wishes to lend you hirs.

                                                     -Robert Brown III

    re .35
    
    I've never been in therapy of any type, but I can imagine that it would
    be hard at first as you start to confront your problems.  You may not
    see any immediate gain from it, but don't give up - you helped some
    others, maybe they can help you in the future.
    
    Rich

    re .35
    The flashbacks and fear are a natural occurence at the onset of group
    therapy. If you can, try to talk about it in the group - you will
    almost certainly find that you're not the only one who is hesitant
    about staying with the group.
    
    best of luck
    

    re.35
    
    'real flesh & blood women'
    
    Yes, this _is_ scary.  Something in the mind veers away from _real_,
    normal women -- like you might be standing behind in the line at CVS or
    something -- having lived through this kind of horror.  It violates an
    internal sense of natural order.
    
    I am a real flesh and blood woman, and I cannot hide from what I went
    through.  But, that's not hard anymore. But other women who go
    to work and do dishes and build decks and eat and sleep ... somehow
    they _still_ frighten me just a little when I'm confronted with them
    the first time.
    
    '...not going back...'
    
    There's nothing that says you should.  Therapy is only beneficial if it
    is therapeutic.  If it makes you lose sleep or have nightmares, perhaps
    now is not the time.  Group therapy works for some.  For others, like
    myself, the group experience was and is overwhelming; one-to-one
    'co-counselling' always felt safer and more useful.
    
    Whatever you decide, Nancy, you are in my heart.
    
      Annie

    
    
    This reply is from a member of our community who wishes to remain
    anonymous at this time.
    
    Justine
    
    
    
    
    
re 53.35

          <The session has brought back so many awful memories very quickly.
          <I've had nightmares almost every night since.  I've cried lots
          <for the other women.  What they say hurts so much to hear.  I'm
          <thinking about not going back.


    Nancy:

    It NEEDS to hurt!

    I continue to be astonished at how quickly I cry when in the company of
    other incest survivors. It is SO safe. It is ALRIGHT to cry.
    In fact for survivors of incest, tears are usually a sign of progress;
    a sign that we can deal with the trauma.
    It took me many many (many) years to cry for the first time in
    psychotherapy.

    Yet, I cried the VERY first time (and after only a few minutes) when I
    was with a co-ed group of incest survivors. I have since interacted
    with 2 incest survivor therapists. Cried with each of them the FIRST
    TIME I met them. Joined a survivor's support group, cried at my desk at
    work as soon as I had been informed of acceptance.


    When I have those kinds of feelings one of two things is happening.

    1)Either I am crying for somebody else's pain, which sometimes becomes a
    learning experience that I DESERVE to cry for my OWN experiences. The
    crying itself is very cathartic.

    2)I am reliving what happened to me but in a safe environment. And I am
    ONLY REliving it I am not LIVING it. This REliving is NEVER as painful
    as the original experience was, but it still can be EXTREMELY painful. 
    So painful, that sometimes I still have to turn away from some of the
    experiences. So painful that sometimes the feelings STILL force me to
    hide from them.

    If it is TOO painful, you won't go back until the pain level is ok. And
    that is fine. What it feels to me like you are doing is reliving your
    experiences in a protective environment. But even REliving those
    experiences may at times be TOO painful to deal with EVEN in the
    protective setting.

				anon

          I went back.

          A few days after the first session, I did some activities that
          forced me to take my mind off things (played bball, went
          swimming, ate sushi with lots of wasabe ;), etc.)   I started
          feeling better.  Read the replies to this note (*thanks* Robert,
          Rich, Lynn, Annie & anon) and some supportive mail from this
          community, and actually began to think positively about the next
          session.

          Lynn, you mentioned expressing my feelings about not going back
          at the group and that perhaps others would have the same
          reaction.  I did that, but everyone else in the group has already
          been together for at least the previous 8-week session. None of
          them felt like I did because of last week, but they related that
          they felt that way when they first started.  Other than that I
          didn't say much.   When I talked out loud about anything specific
          related to the incident, I quickly start feeling like I'm on
          trial.  That was weird.  But maybe that was why I detested
          therapy soon after it happened.

          The 2'nd session was only slightly less as shocking/distressing
          to me as the first.  The things that are said just blow me away.

          The other women's situations are all much more urgent as well.  I
          just went because I'd like to stop having nightmares and get rid
          of a couple other side-effects.  They are in the middle of some
          really awful stuff.  My suffering is miniscule in comparison to
          their pain.

          This goes in the "I oughta be grateful" department:  After 2
          sessions I can unequivocally say that I am grateful what happened
          to me did *not* occur in the Massachusetts legal system where a
          judge can say you are 26% reponsible for what happened based on
          where you live and that your door was unlocked on a Saturday
          morning.

          So what am I supposed to be *realizing* through all of this !?!
          I **know** it's "OK" to feel angry, I **know** is't "OK" to feel
          sad.  I don't need to be told that.

          I left feeling shakey and exhausted, like I'd been through a war
          or something.  Maybe having nightmares isn't so bad.

                                                       nancy b.

    nancy,
    Your suffering is NOT miniscule compared to their pain - it's just
    different and it's yours.
    
    take care, and go gently for a while.
    

    Nancy,
    
    What you are feeling is real for you.  Should and ought are two words
    that probably *should* be dropped from everyone's vocabulary regarding
    feelings.  
    
    Your pain is different, not less, because you are you and not another
    person.  Hang in there for you.
    
    Hugs,
    
    Meg

    
    
    	Anyone interested in ordering the tee-shirt described in 
    	-.1, please send mail.
    
    

          A reporter from a Maynard newspaper called me today for comments
          on the situation involving 4 rapes that have been reported in
          Maynard recently.

          Apparently the Maynard Police Department is being tight-lipped to
          the press about the rapes, refusing to disclose any details.  The
          reporter also said that 2 of the rapes were determined to be
          "unfounded".

          An "unfounded" determination frequently means that the police
          simply don't believe the woman.  I wrote a note in =wn=V2 about
          how much (unchecked) power your local town police have in
          determining whether or not your case is "founded".  What I found
          most annoying from my readings at the time, was how some cities
          have an alarmingly high rate of "unfounded" cases.

          Gosh, does that mean that women in some cities (/towns) lie a lot
          more than women in other cities?  :-/

          [Before we go down a rathole about false reports of rape, the
          Dept. of Justice stats say the % of false rape reports follow
          that of other crimes like burglary, assault, etc.,  = 2%]

          Also, the most significant factor in whether police determine the
          rape to be "founded" is **not** violence of the incident, but
          rather the relationship of the victim and offender.

          I think the public has a right to know more about the assaults
          taking place in Maynard, and that the Maynard PD should make
          available information about the situations in which they
          occurred.

          (I'm **assuming** that if any of these rapes occurred on Digital
          facilities, that Digital Security at MLO would have notified the
          employees there...)
                                                       nancy b.

          While researching facts on the Cambridge rapes and muggings a
          while back, I discovered that the Somerville police do not report
          rapes to the public or press, and that the Natick police tried to
          report one rape as a "housebreak".

          I'm in electronic communication with a woman from a major public
          university in the midwest where the police refused to even **file
          a report** (_not_ investigate, _not_ prosecute, just **file a
          report**) about her rape, because she waited 2 weeks to report
          it.  She has discovered 3 other women who were given the same
          treatment.
                                                  nancy b.

    Not reporting it immediately is no excuse for not investigating and
    prosecuting a rape.  For a variety of reasons, not the least of which
    includes fear about how the police will treat one, I am sometimes
    surprised that any but the most violent, brutal rapes are ever
    reported.  We need to establish a more supportive atmosphere for the
    reporting and investigation of all crimes of violation (rape,
    molestation, sexual abue, etc).
    
    The Somerville police seem to be a little to far over the line.  What
    they clain to be trying to do is protect the privacy of the victim. 
    One could rightly argue that this is a good thing, but, by not
    informing the public "at all" about reported rapes, it seems to me that
    they put at risk women who would be likely to be in the area where a
    rapist has been reported but not yet apprehended.
    
    jimc

    To anyone who thinks rape is a sexual crime, I suggest they read 
    Note 52.12.
    
    					andrew

    52.12,
    
    I read that. Just after getting off the phone at 1:13, it's
    in my phone log.  It's now 1:48. I'm missing 30+ minutes.
    and I vaguely remember a flash back.  Whoever wrote that,
    your pain touched mine.  
    
    Allison

	Tonight on HBO at 10pm there will be a special on Rape.  

	If memory serves me, it's called "Cries from the Heartland"
	and will profile 7 rape cases.  

    
    
    	Last weekend a reporter interviewed me and another
    	woman (Lyn) about our activities of the past year
    	or so with AWARE.  Of course the question came up 
    	as to why I founded it to begin with.  
    
    	My response was that I had an experience which proved
    	to me that I couldn't defend myself (even though I am
    	quite strong and at that time had been through a one-evening
    	self-defense for women course.)   But that I didn't really
    	want to get more detailed than that publicly.  At this point,
    	the reporter turned off the tape recorder.
    
    	Just saying that caused my head to spin.  I felt really dizzy
    	and I thought I was going to pass out.  Luckily someone else
    	said something at that point and I didn't feel any pressure
    	to say much else after that.
    
    	This kind of surprised me. (my reaction.)  Maybe next time if
    	I know this type of question will come up, I'll bring
    	smelling salts! ;-).
    							nancy b.

    What is AWARE?
    
    Alice

	re: .53 (Alice)

	> What is AWARE?
    
	AWARE is a non-profit whose goal is to decrease the amount
	of violence against women by  creating an AWAREness that 
	women are willing and able to defend themselves.  

	In feminist literature, violence against women is frequently
	described on a continuum ranging from low-level harassment like
	cat-calls, etc., to murder.  Similarly, AWARE advocates that
	our responses to violence (i.e, self-protection) must exist
	on a continuum as well.  In other words, different levels of 
	threat require different levels of protection.  

	Our focus has been on the higher levels of threat (rape,
	murder, severe bodily harm) and we offer firearms safety 
	courses as a first step in learning how to counter such a threat.
	I'm also considering sponsoring a course offering in  "practical 
	pressure point methods of defense" for the med-high levels
	of threat.  It is taught by a police trainer, and I'm going to 
	take the course first myself and then decide if we should put
	this on our schedule.  

	One of the best forms of self-defense in this area (NH-MA)
	for the medium levels of threat is Model Mugging of Boston.
	There seems to be a need, however, for a less-expensive and
	less emotionally stressful form of training.  Many women that
	write to me say they can't afford Model Mugging.  I'd like to
	design some practical yet inexpensive courses to fill that 
	need as well.

	Knowing how to deal with the lower levels of threat can keep
	a tough situation from escalating into a very dangerous one.
	Things like the right attitude, the right verbal response, etc...
	A book by (Guardian Angel) Lisa Sliwa called _Attitude_ is
	a good place to start here.  I haven't heard of much training
	for self-protection against this type of low-level threat
	here in Massachusetts...i.e, what are the clues that the person
	asking you for directions is really after something else?

	There is a lot of "just" advice about self-defense...
	"Just get a dog."
	"Don't get a gun, just learn karate."
	"Don't learn karate, just get a gun."
	"Just talk him out of it."
	"Just don't go out at night"

	when in reality different methods of self-defense are needed 
	for different situations.  

	This must sound very complicated ;-), but it's not!  

	Oh, AWARE stands for Arming Women Against Rape and Endangerment.

						nancy b.	

    Starting a pressure-point type of self-defense course is an excellent
    idea, Nancy. Although I'm signed up for Model Mugging myself, and I
    think it's a topnotch program, I do think it's too expensive ($500 
    approximately) and that there needs to be some competition. One thing
    they do that I think is very important is to desensitize women from
    abusive language, so that women are not so shocked that they can't
    defend themselves. They also maintain that when attacked women respond 
    according to how they are trained to respond, so that makes training
    very important.
    
    Eileen

    re: .52
    
    �   Just saying that caused my head to spin.  I felt really dizzy
    �	and I thought I was going to pass out.  Luckily someone else
    
    Maybe it's just me but I don't think someone who gets dizzy and
    thinks they're going to pass out from a question should be carrying
    a gun.
    
                                      L.J.

    	RE: .56  L.J.
    
    	>> Just saying that caused my head to spin...
                ^^^^^^ 
    	> ...someone who gets dizzy...from a question...
    
    	The title of her note said "being VERBAL about it is a problem."
    
    	Never mind, though.
    
    	When a reporter takes the time to interview you because of *your*
    	work to help others defend their lives against violence crime,
    	I'll cut you a bit more slack if part of the interview makes you
    	a bit nervous, ok?

    I'll second what Suzanne said.
    
    To be nervous is human. Better that only the inhuman and insensitive
    carry guns? I'm not for people carrying guns, but I'd rather see Nancy
    carry one than most of the people who are currently carrying them.
    
    Eileen

re: .56 (L.J.)

>    Maybe it's just me but I don't think someone who gets dizzy and
>    thinks they're going to pass out from a question should be carrying
>    a gun.
 
	Wow that's funny, I don't think someone who snipes as much
	as you do should be allowed to type at a keyboard.

					nancy b.

    
    
    Back to the topic, please.
    
    Justine