Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    by the way, the author of the basenote is a woman
    
    BJR

    I would definitely suggest the book "THE COURAGE TO HEAL".  I just
    bought it but I have not read it yet and it has been suggested by
    quite a few people in this conference.  I am stunned at how many
    people have suffered from this horrible crime.  I do not know how
    old your younger brother is now and I hate to say it but most abusers
    do not stop unless made to and alot do not care whether the victim
    is male or female.  I do not mean to criticize because I know how
    much it still hurts but I just cannot believe your mother would
    stay with this man.  I commend you on your courage to tell your
    mother, I only wish she would have helped you.  Good luck with your
    therapy and take care of yourself.  I know this isn't much, but
    this is a great conference with alot of caring and loving people,
    that have helped me greatly.  Thanks to all who care.
    
    Kathy

    Of my two daughters who were either raped or molested, I would have
    to say it varies with personality and effort to get past the abuse.
     The daughter who was raped at nine did a lot of introspection and
    finally got into counseling.  After less than a year, she seemed
    to get stabilized and is now doing well in a permanent job, in her
    married life, and now, in college.  The second daughter has not
    fared as well.  She suffered an incestuous relationship with her
    father for a number of years, but rather than deal with it, kept
    dragging the horrors into a disastrous marriage and into her life
    in general.  Recently, she has finally become involved in therapy
    and is hopefully starting to deal with feelings she's kept too long
    buried.  Each of these daughters has a different perspective and
    neither can be expected to heal the same way or in the same amount
    of time.  One thing I will suggest, stay as far away from the living
    memory of your abuse as possible.  Neither of my daughters has any
    contact with their father whatsoever, and the distance has helped
    to give them the breathing room they need to deal with the rest
    of their lives.
   
    Rather than focusing on how long it takes to heal, you may want
    to focus on how wonderful it will be when you have succeeded, and
    this may help you to draw yourself toward this goal.  Another idea
    that I've used to deal with my healing from physical and emotional
    battering and abuse, is to plunge into the therapy and try to get
    the past over with as quickly as possible.  This is rather brutal,
    but if you want the past to be a guidepost and not a hitching post,
    it can work.  You need a lot of inner strength to handle the emotions
    and a good network of friends for support, but it can be done if
    you want it enough.
    
    Whatever you decide, remember that the best revenge is to go ahead
    and live a good life in spite of the past.  The heck of the thing
    is that when you follow that practice, it becomes second nature
    and you really *are* happier!
    
    My best wishes and support are with you for your success.  Please
    write if you want to talk.
    
    Hugs,
    Barb

    	I am working on some of the same problems that you are experiencing
    except from the other side.  My wife has just started to remember that
    she was abused as a young girl by her uncle.  She never spoke or seemed
    to have a problem until our daughter reached the same age she was when
    she was abused.  It brought our everyday life to a screeching halt and
    we are just starting to get ourselves back into a normal routine.
    
    	I first thought that she just didn't love or want me around anymore
    and wanted a divorce.  Our love life had come to complete stop a couple
    of months before, talking to each other always caused fights and
    arguements about stupid things.  Nothing seemed to be going right. 
    
    	I finally asked if she wanted me to leave as I could no longer take
    the life style that we were living.  She started to cry and went on
    tell me what was happening with her and why she couldn't stand to be
    near me.  You could have knocked me over with a feather, I was in total
    shock to say the least.  We just held on to each other for over an hour
    and cried.
    
    	I now have read everything I could get my hands on too try to
    understand what was happening to us.  Courage To Heal was the first one
    that I read and will continue to use as a reference.
    
    	We are BOTH seeing a therapist.  I not sure how this will work out
    but I will keep you updated on this.
    
    	One thing that has happened during this time I feel closer to my
    wife now than I have ever have in our 17 years of marriage.
    
    Ken

    Re: .5
    
    Ken,
    
    My thoughts and warmest support are with you and your family during
    this time.  I admire your courage in standing by your wife.
    
    Barb

    <--(.6)
    
    Ken, you have my prayers and best wishes too.  How awful for you both.
    
    *Hugs*
    
                                                =maggie

    A brand new book on the market about incest and it's aftereffects
    is SECRET SURVIVORS, Uncovering Incest and Its Aftereffects in
    Women, by E. Sue Blume, pub 1990.  It sells for $19.95 and is
    for anyone involved in wanting to know more about the subject and
    includes a checklist of what might be part of the survivor's 
    life.

    I bought it last night at Lauriat's in Shopper's World in Framingham,
    MA and have read up to Chapter Two.  It contains information that
    is presented in a very helpful manner.

    As Gloria Steinem says on the cover, the book "Explores the
    constellation of symptoms that result from a crime too cruel for
    mind and memory to face.  This book, like the truth it helps
    uncover, can set millions free."

    One important thing this book points out is that "just having your
    breast fondled ONE time" is incest....it redefines incest by using
    the experiences of incest survivors and how they have been made to
    feel to define the broader scope of what is incest.

    justme....jacqui

    re: -1
    
    Some of the repercussions can be the same.
    
    Nancy

    Herb,

    I was using this topic to reach everyone not just the basenoter.
    Education of the masses DOES need to take place.  EVEERYONE is
    responsible to help end SEXUAL ABUSE.  Taking it out of the 
    closet and defining what it is and how it affects both males 
    and females is very important to get across.  Many people are
    involved with survivors and don't understand the rammifications
    of what they went through during and after the abuse.  

    Digital has a great network to spread the word around the world....
    peer to peer.  If just ONE survivor is helped to realized that
    what they have experienced is abuse and they are not to blame then
    -wn- will have accomplished it's purpose of being here.  

    I understand that the end of this month there is going to be a
    March/Rally in Boston for both male and female survivors of Incest/
    Sexual Abuse.  The last weekend of April.

    justme....jacqui

Thank you, Jacqui, for reminding us that just a touch is incest.
It helps to hear that, even though I have heard it often before.

My father abused me, too, but didn't penetrate me, and sometimes deep
inside I will belittle this, even though I *know* how what he did to me
has devastated me.

Last year, when our son was less than a year old, my spouse started remembering
that *she* had been abused, too.  It was terribly hard, and she went through
what "The Courage To Heal" refers to as the "emergency stage".  It was awful.

I started therapy when I was 18 and finally out of the house, and have been
to therapy off and on for the last 12 years.  My spouse is in therapy now
as well.  I, too, wonder: how much longer?!

Last year I finally had the courage to confront my abuser, and he actually
admitted what he had done.  I was prepared to hear the denial that most abusers
do.  I have spoken with him about it a couple of times since then.  Sometimes
I get very angry at him, and sometimes very angry at my mother, who didn't
protect me.  Other times I am just very sad. 

I am still learning of the many ways that it has affected me in my life.

To the basenoters and others who are dealing with abuse, whether their own
abuse or that of someone they love, I send you strength and love.  It does get
better.

   Peace,
          Carol

    I am an advocate for the King County Sexual Assualt Resource Center,
    supporting a crisis line.  Probably the most frequent question asked
    is "How long does it take..."  And, like the other responses here
    have suggested, there is no time involved.  It really really hurts
    when I hear the number of years people have suffered before seeking
    help.  Perhaps there are people who can heal themselves but it sounds
    like most people need help -- and professional help.
    
    When parents call, even when they say the child is so young, he/she
    will forget, didn't really understand, ect, we still urge help since
    children tend to know more than adults give them credit for.  The
    memory stays even if they don't understand the memory -- and watch
    out for the day when they intrepret that memory!!
    
    Am I making sense?  Don't worry about time, worry about quality
    of life.
    
    Eileen

This is an anonymous reply to 1087.12 from a member of the community.
	Mez

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    How long does it take?

    I am still in psychotherapy after 31 years. I was a liquor abuser until
    4 years ago (gallon of scotch a week). Less than 6 months ago I
    "learned" that I had been sexually and physically abused by my mother
    and/or maybe my father when I was several months old. That is STILL
    stuff that I can't deal with, and find myself unable to continue
    talking about it in therapy once the tears start. And I am not even
    real sure what it is I am afraid to talk about!
    My wife takes the brunt of my emotional outbursts having to do with
    believing her and trusting her (my 'mother').
    It can last a very, very, very long time. Suicide is STILL a daily part
    of my fantasies!

    On the other hand, I know a guy who first confronted his abuse last
    summer; it looks like he is in pretty good shape already!
    His abuse happened when he was a teenager and happened only twice.
    Mine happened over 300 times from the time I was 6 mos until a
    teenager.

    				a man

>    On the other hand, I know a guy who first confronted his abuse last
>    summer; it looks like he is in pretty good shape already!
>    His abuse happened when he was a teenager and happened only twice.
>    Mine happened over 300 times from the time I was 6 mos until a
>    teenager.

>    				a man


    Appearances may be deceiving...

    Abuse only once vs. x-number of times can damage the same.  The
    bottom line is "the child has lost the right to their carefree
    childhood".  An adult has taken away a precious part of their
    growing and developing process.  The ramifications of this for
    the child are wide-spread and insidious.  The child "takes on
    the responsibility" and carries it through life.  Learning how
    to "place the blame and guilt" on the perpetrator and not excuse
    or make excuses for the perpetrator is the recovery process.  

    The further I get into the SECRET SURVIVORS the more I recommend 
    it to anyone.  It is fascinating to see how the information in it
    can be utilized by any abused person or partner.  It covers information
    that can be transferred to people who have been emotionally/physically
    battered.  

    justme....jacqui

This is a reply from another member of the community who wishes to remain
anonymous.
	Mez

******************************************************************************

>    My wife takes the brunt of my emotional outbursts having to do with
>    believing her and trusting her (my 'mother').
 
>    				a man


    It is a relief to hear a male survivor say that his wife has had to 
    take the brunt of his emotional outbursts.  I am the wife of another
    survivor.  Would you be willing to elaborate further?  I would be 
    willing to give you a wife's perception.  I am not a victim/survior
    myself although I did come from a dysfunctional background that gave
    me low self-esteem issues.  

    				a woman

    p.s. And to think that the psychiatric/psychological field refused to
    	 see that women "did that sort of thing to their kids"!  In order
    	 for any sexual abuse to stop, IT MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF THE CLOSET!