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Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Title:	ARCHIVE-- Topics of Interest to Women, Volume 2 --ARCHIVE
Notice:	V2 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:	REGENT::BROOMHEAD

Created:	Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1105
Total number of notes:	36379

1059.0. "SRO: Advice needed; retribution for incest" by RANGER::TARBET (Haud awa fae me, Wully) Wed Mar 28 1990 12:29

    The following request for supportive advice is from a member of our
    community who wishes to remain anonymous at this time.

    							=maggie

    ====================================================================

    I have an issue that I need help in dealing with and would appreciate
    any suggestions.  Here goes.

    I am 28 years old, have a 27 and a 25 year old sister.  When were were  
    younger, maybe about 10 or 11 my grandfather would try to play around
    with us. A little game of tickle that moves up your shirt.  (we weren't
    even starting to develop at this point).  Once he sat me on his lap
    when he had boxer shorts on and his erection was hanging out of it and
    he had this sick grin on his face. I don't remember this always
    happening, just for a short period.  
    
    My sisters and I discussed when we were older and told my mother about
    it.  He is my dad's father and my mom and dad have been divorced as
    long as I can remember, but we remained to close to my grandmother.  It
    never really bothered me, it was more of a joke than anything, because
    I never thought it got really bad.  
    
    Then about six years ago my 27-year-old sister and I were having a few
    drinks and talking and she told me that he would sneak in her room when
    she stayed over at night and put his hands under the covers and play
    around with her while she pretended to sleep.  My heart broke and all I
    could think about was killing him for hurting and possibly scarring my
    sister forever.  I talked to our younger sister and it was never
    serious sh*t with her, just sick, perverted stuff that we laughed off.  
    
    Well after my sister told me this, I made a few anonymous phone calls
    telling him he was a child molester, etc.  I stopped sending him cards
    or gifts.  For my grandmothers sake I would send a joint gift at
    Christmas. For another holiday I sent my grandmother a card with only
    her name on it. She called my mother up and wanted to know why HIS name
    wasn't on it, and that he was hurt and he was wondering why his name
    isn't on it and that she wishes I wouldn't do things like this.  I love
    my grandmother, she was very good to  me as a kid.  My grandmother and
    he do not drive anymore, she uses a cane now to get around and depends
    on him for everything.  She now weighs about 85 lbs.

    When my mother told me all of this I was p*ssed because HE knows why
    his name is not on it and to cause trouble like that really gets me. 
    My mother had never realized the extent of his abuse just as I hadn't
    and I told her the other day.  I only told her to make her realize why
    I hated him so.  She now does also.  But not only does she hate him,
    she feels guilty and she cried  for my sister.  My sister is very quiet
    and pretty much a pushover, she cannot say no to anybody.  She does not
    know I told my mother and I do not think she likes to talk about it
    much.  

    Here is what I plan on doing and would like any suggestions on how to
    handle it. I plan on calling him on the phone to address the issue of
    how he knows why he is never acknowledged, is a pervert, etc.  But my
    grandmother does not know about any of this and I do not know what it
    would do to her if she found out.  I  want to get this out in the open
    and I am sick of not visiting my grandmother or calling her because I
    don't want to get stuck talking to him.  Do you think if I call him on
    it and tell him to keep out of my way he will?  Who knows he may deny
    the whole thing.

    Another thing, my aunt who is only a year older than me, grew up in
    that house with him.  I shudder to think what horrors he put her
    through growing up.  She is a nice person but a little on the odd side. 
    One night when I was drinking I asked her about it and in turn told her
    about us.  She denied anything was done to her but there was no shock
    or emotion of any kind in her reaction.

    I know this is rather long, but I wanted to give a good picture of this 
    situation.  I really feel it is time something was said to the scum. 
    Why should he not pay for what he has done?  Please do not suggest
    counseling, I really  only want help in dealing with him.   Thanks to
    everyone in advance for any advice you can give in dealing with this
    sensitive matter.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1059.1	Taking care of yourself IS taking care of others!	DEMING::GARDNER	justme....jacqui	`Wed Mar 28 1990 14:10`	16
	Dear Insest Survivor, Please consider hitting your local psychology section of your library, good book store, or a feminist bookstore. There, look for any and all books on insest. Start reading.... There are also 12-step programs on this issue. Workbooks are available to help you in your decision making that can be found where most AA, ACOA, OA, etc books are kept in local bookstores. Read and then decide for yourself what is best. You are responsible only for yourself. What you decide to do is FOR YOU. Decide only what course of action will heal YOU! justme....jacqui
1059.2		RANGER::TARBET	Haud awa fae me, Wully	`Wed Mar 28 1990 14:26`	15
	I would suggest subscribing to Sojourner, a nationally-distributed feminist newspaper (ca. $18/year, comes out monthly, available in the Boston area at New Words bookstore on Hampshire at Prospect). I have frequently seen both letters and articles on how to bring the victim's feelings home to the perpetrator. It might be that you will have to choose between perhaps destroying your grandmother's final years and getting your own catharsis and release while he lives; it sounds as though her relationship with him is close, and it's quite likely that if you manage to make your feelings known to him, it will spill over onto her in ways you cannot easily predict or control. In your place, I would go slowly on that very account. =maggie
1059.3		RANGER::TARBET	Haud awa fae me, Wully	`Wed Mar 28 1990 17:47`	53
	The following response is from a member of our community who wishes to remain anonymous at this time. =maggie ==================================================================== Dear Anonymous, I am 27 years old and am just beginning my battle with incest. I have three sisters, their ages now are 21, 29, 31. My father used to come into our rooms at night while we slept and do things to us. My oldest sister remembers more than I do. I have blocked out all instances and only have vague memories of things that my father did. My two older sisters have some memories. It's so amazing how the mind works. That it can block out all yucky/scary things that happen to us as children and then let the bad memories out little by little as you're ready to deal with them. I am seeing a counselor and I will share with you what he has told me to do. You may not feel that you need/want to see a counselor, which is o.k. But it sounds like your sister should seek help. It's such a hard thing to deal with, especially when you don't know what to do to help yourself. If you/she really don't want to see someone an excellent book that I am reading, which goes along with all of the things that my counselor is doing is "The Courage to Heal" by Laura Bass and Helen Davis. If you can get the book and get one for your sisters. It has helped me tremendously. It deals only with incest and is written for women. My counselor tells me that one thing that I need to do is to confront my father (which I haven't done yet). My sister has and he denied everything. That would be my advice to you. If you do not want to get your grandmother involved, call him up and meet him someplace. It's best not to do it over the phone. You need to tell him what he did to you and tell him how it made you feel. Get out all of the anger. He will probably deny it as they usually do. My counselor told me that that is the one main thing that I need to do to help me on my way to heal. To confront him when I have the upper hand and to do it face to face. "The Courage to Heal" book has a chapter on confronting your abuser. If you do nothing else, please just buy "The Courage to Heal" book. It is so helpful to me now. It's like my bible. It's so incredible how incest affects us and affects how we deal with every day situations. Psychologists now are just beginning to recognize it and learn about it. One more fact, sexual abuse happens to one in four women...what a thought. GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND TO YOUR SISTERS.
1059.4		RANGER::TARBET	Haud awa fae me, Wully	`Wed Mar 28 1990 18:27`	70
	The following response is from another member of our community who wishes to remain anonymous at this time. =maggie ==================================================================== One of the most difficult things about incest is that it's often impossible to isolate the perpetrator. Whatever you do to get back at them, there are always persons near them who are close to them, who most of the time don't know exactly what happened let alone how long it went on or what the effects on the victims were. These people can be badly hurt by the truth. From your story, that's your grandmother's situation right now. She has shared a lifetime with him and if she finds out what he's done it will come as an incredible shock. That is a real dilemma. You write that you want this out in the open, yet that is virtually impossible without her finding out what happened. Actually she's already started to find out at the very least that something has happened, your ignoring him must have raised questions for her. You sound very angry in your note, and that's completely understandable given the situation. You've learned about what your sister went through, and you suspect what your aunt may have gone through, and it's no longer an issue you can ignore or put aside. And I also feel from your note that you're very close to your grandmother and that whatever the outcome otherwise, you do not want her to get hurt. Yet you don't seem to have many options left for regaining your piece of mind except to confront him on some level, and in fact you've already started to do so. If you really have to go the whole way, I can only hope that you will do it as calmly and rationally as you can. What you say in your note about how he may deny the whole thing? Count on it. That may well be the first thing you're going to run into. If that happens it's going to be a hard blow for you to take upfront. And a severe challenge to your "cool". You already sound very angry with him for playing dumb about the reason you're "doing this to him", and both that reaction from him and your feelings in response to it make me think that that's the part that will be hardest for you. I know you specifically asked us not to advise counseling, but a good counselor can really help you here. You probably can't discharge all your anger at your grandfather directly because the only really satisfactory way to do that would be to kill him outright for what he did. But if you keep all that anger inside of you, and don't express it at all, it might tear _you_ apart. What a counselor should be able to do for you is help you express the most of your anger in a way that would neither harm you or anybody else, and help you prepare for a rational confrontation in which you can express to him your reasons why, and keep your head on your shoulders if he does deny what he did or plays down the whole thing. You might even decide not to confront him personally after all, but that is something you can decide for yourself at that time. To tell you something about me: I too was sexually abused by my father for several years in my early teens. So were my brother and sister. I don't want to keep going on about it but I've seen firsthand the difficulties regarding confrontation and most of all the feelings of the other "hostages" - the people you don't want to get hurt, but who are the first to be hurt as soon as you try to discharge your feelings towards the perpetrator. It's a painful dilemma. Think about yourself, think about your needs and your history, and keep in mind that whatever happened to anyone else, your own story is always the most difficult because it involves _you_. Whatever you decide, you're in a very delicate situation - so get help where you can. another survivor
1059.5	Clarify for yourself	EGYPT::SMITH	Passionate committment/reasoned faith	`Wed Mar 28 1990 18:54`	25
1059.6	In case anyone is wondering	EGYPT::SMITH	Passionate committment/reasoned faith	`Fri Mar 30 1990 17:08`	3
	.5 is set hidden 'cause I decided I must have put it in the wrong string and I don't know how to move it.
1059.7		WOODS::KINGR	FUR...the look that KILLS...	`Fri Mar 30 1990 22:31`	5
	Re: 5 Look out, I hear the Vaxnotes patrol heading this way... REK And have a nice day!
1059.8		WMOIS::B_REINKE	if you are a dreamer, come in..	`Fri Mar 30 1990 22:57`	17
	REK give it a rest please? Nancy 1. save your note to the $ level 2. delete the note that you put in wrong 3. go to the place where you want the note 4. type reply note.name (the name you gave the note you saved) 5. edit out headers and other unwanted material 6. enter your note as usual if you don't know how to save a note or this is too terse write�� to any of the mods and we will explain.�� Bonnie
1059.9	Others' role in Abuse	CSC32::DUBOIS	The early bird gets worms	`Thu Apr 05 1990 15:56`	23
	There have been few notes about this, and I am surprised to see that. One thing I have not seen in this string is the possibility that your grandmother is not so innocent as you seem to think. In protecting the abuser, you are also protecting anyone who allowed the abuse to happen. It is not necessarily as easy as you seem to think to abuse a child and have no one suspect. People do suspect, they just rarely confront the abuser, or they talk to him/her and get them to say they won't do it again (which may or may not happen), and then they don't say anything again to the abuser, thinking they have solved the problem. Your mother knew of the abuse that you were suffering, and your grandmother may have known it, too. Did she ever see the "tickling" that was taking place? Did you avoid "playing" with your grandfather at all? Were you less affectionate with him? Any of these would be clues that she should have picked up. You need to take care of yourself. Read "The Courage to Heal". It even has a section on being the partner of a survivor, which may help you in dealing better with your sister's abuse, as well. Please write again and let us know how you are doing. I care. Carol