Conference turris::womannotes-v2

>> Part of me is confused because I was always me so where were they before?

Read note 3726 in HIT::SINGLES.  That note may describe the type of person 
you're talking about.

Many people (both men and women), especially people in their 20's it seems,
consider the physical to be more important than the emotional. If you
changed your appearance so as to be closer to what society considers
"pretty", then these are the people who you are probably running into
in greater numbers.

>> Part of me thinks they just want one thing cause some of them are real
>> blunt about it.  Part of me feels bad about saying no cause I've always had
>> a problem saying no cause I guess I'm what they call a "pleaser" and I like
>> to be nice to people and stuff.  

Never feel bad about saying no to anything you don't want to do, especially
if, as it sounds from your note, you barely even know the people.  Most
healthy people like to please others, but there's also self preservation
(both emotional and physical) that must be balanced. You don't serve
yourself well if you do everything that anyone asks, and you don't
serve them by leading them on to believe that you're interested in them.
Also, don't worry too much about hurting these casual askers - everyone
has a hide, and it should be thick enough to handle this sort of rejection.

M

>Part of me is confused because I was always me so where were they before?

 The sad fact of life is that despite the most vehement protestations to the
contrary, the vast majority of people utilize looks as a primary discrimination
tool; you are simply passing that initial test more often now. Now you can
go on to the personality, compatibility, etc tests.

>Part of me thinks they just want one thing cause some of them are real
>blunt about it. 

 I imagine some of them do indeed want one thing from you. But there's really 
no reason to be upset by it. If you don't want that same thing, tell them you
aren't interested.

> Part of me feels bad about saying no cause I've always had
>a problem saying no cause I guess I'm what they call a "pleaser" and I like
>to be nice to people and stuff.  

 This is something you'll have to learn to overcome. If you make everyone else
happy, in the end, you'll probably find out you forgot to make yourself happy.
There has to be a happy medium. You'll find that people will tolerate things
you do more now.

> And whats the most polite but obvious way of saying no.

 "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in that." Be polite, but firm. And don't 
give in.

 The Doctah

    
    Re .0
     
    Yup - I've had this happen. I lost a stack of weight a long while
    back, and suddenly the world looked very different to me - and I
    looked different to it - this soon became very obvious! I found it so 
    disconcerting that I put all the weight back on rather than deal with it.........
                  
   There attention you're describing can, in my experience, be very
    unsettling especially if you're not used to dealing with it. Maybe
    one reason that you didn't "change your looks" before was because
    you didn't want to deal with this? I kept the weight on so I wouldn't
    have to work through my own discomfort......
    
    Being a "pleaser" is not all bad, but the most important person
    to please is YOU! And that means not getting pestered, bullied or
    pressured into anything you don't wholly want to do. 
    
    Re: saying no. Be polite if you can, but not "hurting" or "rejecting"
    the other person is not the key thing - saying what you mean is.
    If someone takes offence at that then that's their problem.
    Persistant people are sometimes very thick-skinned, and if you need
    to be "rude" to them when you've tried other tacks then don't feel
    bad about it.
    
    Good luck to you in your new looks!
    
    'gail
                                            
       
    

Anon:

I've had the same problem.  For me, it wasn't a real physical change, just
all of a sudden I decided I was beautiful - I started wearing my clothes
and carrying myself in such a way as to show off my body rather than hiding
it.

Suddenly there were all these men that weren't there before.  *Boom*  Where'd
they all come from?

Like the Doctah said, now you are passing the "foot-in-the-door" test - but you
will still find that most of these men will be incompatible in some other
way.  (It is a fact of life that *most* of the people we meet are incompatible -
good thing too, or we would all be falling in love all the time! :-)

Not to worry, you will learn to say "no". You have to.  If you say "yes" 
when you don't want to a few times, the experiences will be unpleasant and
distasteful enough that the memory of them will give you the motivation to 
say "no" the nex ttime.

Yes, do try to be polite in rejections - but you will occasionally run
accross the man with whom the polite emthod seems totally ineffectual. 
For those occasions, you are going to have to overcome your training and
tell them right out to "BUG OFF!"  It's hard, and it may take you a while 
to learn the hard way, but you will.

Good luck,
D!

    Let me see if I can make a few constructive suggestions:  I'll assume
    that you want to be in control of the situation and that you are not
    sure that you have always been, that you do want to date some guys but
    want time to make the right decisions and sort out the guys who are
    interested in you vs "you know what."
    
    Decide ahead of time what you are going to do on the date and pick the
    first [few?] dates to be in safe places.  There's nothing wrong with a
    "date" in the cafeteria.  Just to talk and find out more about the
    person.  If that doesn't seem quite right, then a lunch off site or a
    walk after lunch. (I don't like my caf either).  You see lunch has the
    context of returning to work.  Before you return to work you can agree
    to the next date but you get a really good chance to sit and think,
    change your mind if you want, if the vibes weren't right.
    
    Pay your own way.  Then there isn't a context of owing anything.
    (Although if any guy ever said you owed him something because he bought
    you anything, it would be a good cue to tell him to take a hike.)
    
    If alcohol is a problem, avoid it.  It will be easier to say no.
    
    Suppose it's the second date or so and the question "your place or
    mine" comes up.  Suppose you haven't determined what you think of the
    guy, suggest a walk in the park or on the beach, some place that's at
    least a bit public.  Or suggest a movie.  If the guy's interested in
    you, he'll agree.
    
    I wish it was as easy as just getting some guys to practice asking you
    questions so you can practice saying no but it isn't.  Although you're
    welcome to just call my DTN and say NO when I answer.  :-)  If you do
    remind me that it was this note, please.
    
    Good luck,
    ed

	Hi, this my 1st entry to this conference and with
	respect to the base note, to which I have some 
	experience in. The people pleasers...I to have done
	my share of pleasing as a means of surviving in
	uncomfortable situation, or just seeking approval.
	The outcomes were never satisfying. So, I've decided
	the only person that I'll please is me and the only
	approval I'll need is the one I faithfully give myself.
	There is a RISK in saying no and it is learning
	that you can do it and that you won't die from it.

	See Yah,
	Jasper

    .0
    
    I lost a lot of weight and you're right, this fear comes over you
    and you have to deal with things that you might have avoided before
    or more likely, the situation would have never even arisen.
    
    I sort of look at it like this: when a teenager goes through puberty
    all of a sudden their body resembles a woman, but their mind
    may still be a child and dealing with *men/boys* is especially hard.
    It takes time.
    
    I believe when most people go though a physical change, they need
    to change their *mind* as well.  This old mental image is still there.
    It took me about 6 months to believe that I didn't look like a *house*
    anymore.  My body adjusted but my mind hadn't.  
    
    I think that is why weight watchers, Overeaters Anon. are so
    successful, they deal with the mental image as well as the physical.
    And for the people that lose weight and never adjust that new mental
    image, they more than likely put weight back on....it's easier.
    
    Maybe there is some kind of a self-esteem program you can join or
    maybe even a few sessions with EAP would help you get on the right
    track.
    
    K

    

    Maybe it's somehow keyed into your self-esteem.  
    
    I had some self esteem issues that were related to how I felt about
    *myself*, but they affected how I acted towards other people.  There
    was a time, a long while ago, when I was certain that I had to make
    people like me *somehow* - I was very into doing things for other
    people, and solving their problems.  I was somewhat convinced that
    nobody could possibly like me for who I was, rather people could only
    like me for what I could do for them.  
    
    Of course, I could be dead wrong, but if the above phenomenon were 
    tied into a physical change and an increase in "interest" from other
    people, and a need to please, I can see how one could be hard-pressed 
    to say no....and that it might feel dangerous to be sexy....
    
    If there's any issue at all with your self esteem, try and see the
    good things about yourself.  Try to see the value your current 
    friends place on you for who you are.  Learn to see your own value, and
    that what of yourself you decide to give others is a very special gift
    from you to them.
    
    -Jody
    

    I always wondered what would happen if, for the first time in my
    life, I was thin.  I wondered (not too much) if suddenly all those
    people (boys, I guess would be more appropriate) who never asked
    me out, or gave me a second glance, might.  Of course I know there's
    more to getting asked out than just looks, but remember, in adolesence,
    we didn't know that yet.  :)
    
    I still wonder, but not too much since I've got a boyfriend who
    loves me no matter my size.  But still, I made the resolution to
    never, never go out with anyone who asked me out AFTER I lost weight
    than had never displayed even a passing interest in me as a person
    before hand.  I don't have the chance to see if it happens yet,
    but maybe sometime soon...   :)
    
    Shallowness isn't something admirable in my eyes.  When you've got
    an "appearance defect" (I use the term quite sarcastically), it
    puts a whole perspective on how society works as far as intersocial
    (read: love live, social activities) relationships go.  I'd never
    treat anyone as bad as I got treated when I was younger.  I think
    people just don't treat me as bad when I'm grown up because they
    might not like the reaction (although I'm sure there are those who'd
    make snide remarks behind my back).   It's really a shame when you
    are judged almost 100% by your physical appearance.
    
    ----kim
    
    P.S. to the basenoter   If you want to turn someone down, there's
    polite ways to do so.  If they are insistent to the point of
    bothersome, there's no rule dictating you must remain polite.  Use
    your judgement on each case - you probably can "feel" what it will
    take to enforce "No Thank You".  
    
    

    
    Remain polite as you bury a spike heel in his instep...