Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    
    lauren has said on numerous occasions that if she did not get
    sufficient time to be alone (and/or away from me) she would
    go stark, raving mad. i feel much the same way. in fact, we each
    have our 'special' times when we are alone in our regular
    schedules. it is very disturbing when either of us has a change
    in our schedule and we intrude on that special time. i strongly
    believe this to be normal, healthy behaviour.
    

    *Everyone* needs alone time!  I used to wonder why on earth I was
    actually looking forward to a vacation ending and I figured out it
    was because when on vacation, my alone time was drastically reduced.
    Much as I loved the person I was with, I was with that person 24 hours
    a day for a week, and it really disturbed me.
    
    I believe relationships work better if each person has time alone (or
    away from the partner).  Make it happen!
    
    
    

    Re .0:
    
    You are very much not wrong to want some time to yourself.  Privacy is
    a basic human need.
    
    What can you do:
    
    	If you cannot be alone at home, go out:
    		Just drive -- explore the roads in the area.
    		Go to malls and walk through every store.  (Leave your
    			credit cards/checkbook/cash at home, except for
    			enough to cover an emergency.)
    		Go to the library and read.
    		Go sit in a public park and do nothing.
    
    	At home, try having a room all to yourself for a specified period.
    
    With some spouses, there may be trouble getting them to accept the
    other person's need to be alone.  "Where are you going?" is a problem.
    Does anybody have ideas on handling that?
    
    
    				-- edp

    Personally, I think it is totally within the realm of reasonable to
    ask for time alone in your own home.  It's not your responsibility to
    find something fun for him to do outside the house; that's his job.
    
    If he can't think of any place to go, suggest the library.  It's warm,
    comfy, interesting, and free.  And he'll have a nice quiet place to
    reflect on other things he can do.  I'd suggest negotiating for some
    specific, defined time alone in the house, and leave the issue of "what
    he does with that time" out of it -- all you require is that he LEAVE
    for a while.  This is known in my house as the Garbo Hour.
    
    Beth
    
    PS -- My experience is that it's easier to accept the need to be
    alone if there is also enough time dedicated to being together,
    nurturing the relationship, and having fun.  Sometimes the physical
    cloying is a reaction against a sense of dis-connectedness when we get
    too busy to really touch each other.

    edp,
    
    Er, considering that her `alone time' is likely to be at night,
    would you care to make a different set of suggestions?  As it is,
    at least three of your four suggestions hit fear alarms for women:
    Driving alone at night, walking across a large parking lot alone
    at night (and without enough money to appease a mugger!), and
    entering a park alone at night.  I'm not too crazy about the
    library idea either, although my town's library would be just fine.
    
    Is your subconscious having a little fun with you, she asked
    darkly.
    
    						Ann B.

    Well, provided that this woman doesn't live in a place where she
    should feel secure only staying IN at night, then I second edp's
    notions of "just getting out" (quote are mine).  Night is a nice
    time to do it, too and since most of us work during the daytime,
    it's often to only time to just do most anything. 
    
    Going to the mall is a great way to kill a lot of time--stop for
    a bite to eat, or maybe go watch a movie, if it happens to be one
    of those malls with a multiplex in it.  As for dark parking lots,
    park under a light and close to the mall.  
    
    Driving around is a great way to get in touch with yourself, too.
    At night, of course, there isn't much to see other than what happens
    to have lights on it, but traffic is less and there is certainly
    the sense of being by yourself.  Common sense does prevail here.
    Make sure the car won't run out of gas in a stretch where the gas
    stations close early, etc.
    
    If you don't want to "wing it" at night, then try getting involved
    in something.  A club, a bowling league, whatever.  There are a
    lot of programs around for people to do stuff, usually for an initial
    outlay of cash which, naturally, depends on what you want to do.
    
    If the problem is that you want to be HOME alone, short of forcing
    your hubby out the door, if he doesn't want to go, there isn't much
    you can do to MAKE him go.  From your note, I gathered you've discussed
    this with him, to no avail.  My best advice to you might be to just,
    as suggested previously, hole up in a room _alone_ and indicated
    you want to be left that way.  I'd make sure your husband knows
    that you aren't mad at him when you do this, otherwise he'll probably
    bother you simply to determine what the problem is.
    
    If the issue is that your husband feels a need to be around you
    ALL the time, then there's probably more to the matter than just
    not being alone, and some more talking is in order.
    
    At any rate, good luck!
    
    ---kim

    When I need to be alone I drive 2 hours to my sister's farm in the
    Shenandoah Valley.  I get to kill *2* birds with one stone:  time away
    from Sean (which I believe is necessary and healthy for a relationship)
    and time to visit my sis!  If I feel like *really* being alone, I take
    solitary walks, hang out in my room reading, or ride the horses.
    
    Going to the mall to get away is good, too.  But only if you aren't
    *bored* and can restrain yourself from spending!  I find when I'm bored
    and sort of upset, I spend money I don't *have* hanging at the mall!
    
    Good luck!  Maybe you can compromise with your hubby and he can join a
    bowling league or something ...!
    
    Tammi
    

I know exactly how you feel.  I was living with a man while I was in school...
we studied together, went to classes together, cooked, ate and cleaned together,
slept together, etc.  We loved eachother but got so sick of eachother!!

Some suggestions: do you or your husband have flex-time at work?  You could
modify your schedules so that instead of overlapping exactly, there is a 
one or two hour period where he is at work and you are not.  It isn't much
but even that much time can allow you to read, get some cleaning done, sleep,
watch TV or whatever you do when you are alone.

Also, I found showers/baths to be wonderful. When we first started living 
together we always showered together. After a while though I told him
shower time was "my time".  It was very important to me, and I always scheduled
wake-up so that I had time for a long shower, and sometimes in the evenings
I took long, luxurious baths.  Doesn't sound like much, but in such a warm,
relaxing environment you can get a lot of thinking done, and for me it 
satisfied a lot of my need for private space.

If you are into fitness, I have a friend who says that she spends half an hour
to an hour swimming every night, and she loves it, because she feels totally
alone and thinks about a lot of things.  (Other people are there, but while
swimming you can't see or hear them.)  I think biking or even working out
at a gym could do the same things.  How about long walks at lunches (when the
weather is bearable)?

And I second the suggestions made about mall-walking, the library, driving
(esp. out in the country, if it is available, so you don't have to deal with
other drivers and that tension.)

Also, you might want to suggest some of the above activities to *him*, which
would give you alone time in the house.

When things got really desperate, I would leave him in front of the TV and
retreat to the bedroom with a good book, and tell him he wasn't allowed to
come in until I opened the door (never more than an hour or two, so he 
wouldn't feel I was ignoring him.)

Good luck!

D!

    Re .5:
    
    My image of the park idea was definitely for daylight -- a weekend
    perhaps.  I can see the problems with parking lots at night, but why is
    just driving a problem?  If a person is not getting in or out of a car,
    I would not think they are very vulnerable, particularly if the doors
    are locked.  Also, some of these things could be done on the way home
    from work, when there is still some daylight left.  There's another
    idea -- have lunch during the day away from the office, whether it's a
    bag lunch, take-out from the cafeteria, McDonald's, or a restaurant.
    
    
    				-- edp

    I would go crazy if I didn't have any time to be alone.  If I want
    to be alone on a week night, now, I usually go in my bedroom and
    shut the door and read.  One of the aspects of living together or
    being married that strikes me as annoying is that couples are always
    expected to share a bedroom.  I'd rather be able to always have
    my own bedroom and just "visit."  I always had my own bedroom as
    a child, and it has never stopped seeming like an invasion of my private
    space, to have someone else's junk scattered over my dresser.  (On
    the other hand, I never mind sharing my bedroom with 4 or 5 cats!
     They don't expect me to listen to their problems or make pleasant
    chit-chat!)  I would go crazy if I had to always be alone, but I
    would also go crazy if I could never be alone.  I have to have a
    mix of solitude and company, and probably most people do.
    
    One of my girlfriend's was recently telling me that she and her
    husband have to take turns using the hobby room in the cellar (she
    does stained glass, he does carpentry) because *she* can't stand
    to have *him* in the room when she's working on her hobbies! :-)
     I used to feel the same when I did oil painting.  I used to be
    happy when the smell of turpentine drove people away.
    
    When I was younger and still living with my parents, there were
    miles of woods (with paths & cartroads) in back of their house.
     I used to love to walk for miles in the woods when I felt like
    being alone.  But, now I think I'd be afraid to do that, now that
    the media is so full of murders, etc.
    
    Lorna
    

This is something I'm concerned about as well.  I have lived alone for
9 years -- no roomies, no live-in lovers, no pets.  Just me.  And I've
loved it.  My SO is moving in with me this month, and while I'm quite
excited for this I've also been concerned about the future quantity of 
my alone-time, something I've always required, and had, in abundance.

To .0, I don't know if your home would accomodate this, but it's very
important I have my own room.  My own sanctuary.  A place where I can 
go to read, write letters, listen to music, draw, paint, write poetry, 
and basically be whatever I'm in the mood to be.  In total solitude.

For the longest time I felt I had to be with my SO every moment he was 
with me.  Now I realize that's not a realistic nor a desirable prospect
for either of us.  Even though we're together, and very happy to be in
each other's company, we both need space for our own minds and our own 
thought/emotional processes.  I learned it's not my responsibility to 
entertain him and it took lots of long talks for me to understand this.
(Fortunately, although he doesn't share my need for solitude, he under-
stands and accomodates me.)  Now, I feel no qualms about going into the 
bedroom, or the spare room, or into a steaming bubble bath, or outside 
when it's warm, to do my own thing.  It's much better for both of us!

We also have the benefit of working slightly off-parallel hours.  I've
got a 6am-2pm shift, and he generally works 9am-4pm.  I have Saturday/
Sunday off, he has Sunday/Monday off.  This schedule is ideal for us,
as it gives us plenty of time together, and also enough opportunities
for our separate time-needs.

One of my fondest childhood memories is going out to the airport with
my Dad and brother to watch the airplanes take off.  (He'd buy us any
kind of candybar we wanted, which was also a big thrill.)  I recently
found out my Dad's motivation behind it -- when he took us kids out,
it was my Mom's only chance to be alone in the house.

Good luck working something out.  You have every right to desire time
for yourself, and every right to take it!

Carla

    re: .0 (Anon.)
    
    If I'm interpreting your note correctly, you'd prefer to spend
    your "alone time" in your own house (vs. finding outside activities).
    First, I'd echo the sentiments of those who feel that solo time
    is both normal and healthy.  Second, I'd suggest a conversation
    with your husband to "go on the record".  Re-state your desire
    for some time to yourself (in your house, if that's the case)
    and ask him not only for a commitment to support that.  Since
    he's already agreed, this will (hopefully) be the easy part.
    
    Next, I'd press for a plan of action; ask him to state what
    he'll do to act upon that commitment and when.  The idea is
    to get him to commit to some specific action by some specific
    time.  If he indicates that he'll have to think a bit to come
    up with concrete plans, I'd employ an old Materials Planner
    tactic: "If you can't tell me today when you can deliver, tell
    me today when you will tell me the true delivery date."  Let him
    know that this is not an issue that you're willing to leave un-
    resolved for an indefinite period of time; ask him to be finite
    about when he can state definite plans that will *actualize* his
    good intentions.
    
    I've found that while this approach is often enough to get things
    moving, it nonetheless helps to have a contingency plan - "If
    you fail to deliver upon your promise, here's the action I'll 
    take."  In your case, and just shooting from the hip, perhaps
    you could say that if he does nothing to actualize his commitment
    by a given date, you'll "take over" a portion of the house for
    several hours on a given night.  F'rinstance, if you have a
    bedroom with an attached bathroom, taking over that area may
    work nicely (but only if there's at least a � bath elsewhere 
    in the house).  Basically, this idea is along the lines that 
    others have suggested, the essence of which is carving out
    a place in the house that's yours alone on a regular basis 
    for a specified time with no intrusions or interruptions.
    
    Best wishes in solving what I've found to be one of the most
    common problems for partners living together.
    
    Steve
    

    sick days are a really nice opportunity to be alone in one's house.
    Also if you can get him to take a vacation by himself, or go visit
    relatives by himself, that is a good opportunity too.  Also if he
    has friends that aren't friends to both of you, he can go out to
    do things with them.  If not, I would get out of the house myself,
    to do something fun, not just for going to classes.
    	Linda

There's a room in our house that is 'my' room [unless we have guests...].  When
I go in there Rick does not cross the threshold, no matter how long I'm gone,
without prior consult.  It is my haven.  Which is not to say he never goes in
that room -- the ironing board is in there [proximity to sewing machine] and I
have never ironed for him -- just that when I'm there he generally doesn't just
enter and interruptions are very infrequent.  If I close the door, Rick refrains
from _all_ interruptions unless the house is on fire or something Major.

Rick also has tons of outside interests, so I frequently have the whole house
in which to commune with myself.  After all these years he has learned that
my disorientation when he appears unexpectedly or early and my retreat to my
haven is not rejection but entirely analogous to his 'why are _you_ here?!'
when I get out of school early.

There _are_ times when I my need for space is so intense that knowing that he's
in the house or could come home at any time makes it impossible for me to
re-charge.  I gas up the car and take long drives.  Or if I feel a drive 
ill-advised, I take a book and hang-out in the choir-loft at my church [I talked
to the priest and he gave me a key].

  Ann

    
    re .00
    
    first of all, you are ENTIRELY normal.  My fiance and I joke about how
    if we spend a whole weekend with no alone time we're ready to climb the
    walls or pick fights.  (we've been living together for over 1 year.)
    
    a few ideas:
    
    - Jon loves hockey or soccer, so everytime there's a game on, I may as
    well be alone in the house.  I can talk on the phone till I'm blue in
    the face and he won't hear me.  While this upset me at first, I've come
    to look forward to when there's a game on.  I get to do my own thing
    AND go to bed alone.  (The games run past my bedtime.)  Another thing I
    can loose Jon to is models, (like planes, not women).  So, if I want
    some time alone, I can buy him a model or encourage him to buy one. 
    (He's fairly picky that they be authentic.)
    
    - If I really want to be totally alone, I go to church on the off
    hours.  I love to sing and play piano, so I bring my suitcase of music
    and sing up a storm.  (My future-parents-in-law have a key.)
    
    - A good workout in the gym is more of my alone time.  I go run the
    track or take an aerobics class.  While there's lots of people around,
    I become so in-tuned with my body that I don't see them.
    
    - My commute to work is 1 hour each way, so that's more time.
    
    - as a last and devious resort, call up a friend of his and beg. 
    "Please, get your friend out of my house before I kill him! " 
    Encourage him to have a guy's night out!  Go to a sports bar.
    Or he could go hiking during the day, (you'd be too tired to go.)
    
    - another sort-of devious idea, if he has any hobbies or interests,
    find out about a club he could join.  (ie: political committee, health
    club, soccer team, church choir ...)  got ALL the info on it and let
    him know the when, where, how, why of it.
    
    RE: Carla
    
    I wouldn't be too concerned about your alone time.  I lived alone for
    about 1 year before we moved in together and I've found that I like
    knowing that he's at least in the house with me.  I feel safer.  We
    still have our alone time but under the same roof.
    
    Rachael
    

    Why is it *OUR* responsibility to make sure that the male partner
    is taken care of so that *we* (the female) can have private time??

    justme

    jacqui,
    
    perhaps because we are the ones with a problem?
    
    Bonnie

    well, um, bonnie, I wouldn't put it like that, quite, rather
    that if the slug doesn't get the message/take action upon 
    himself, then the one desiring private time is best served
    by taking care of her own needs, by arranging his absense.
    It isn't "taking care of him," jacqi- its taking care of her.
    
    DougO

    DougO
    
    That was what I meant.
    
    Bonnie��

    re:  .18

    Thanks for the clarification DougO.  Taking care of one's self
    sometimes means taking care of others until the message is 
    received.

    justme....jacqui

    
    Re .0
    
    I agree with .15 - this is ENTIRELY normal! I would have gone
    crazy in your situation within a month (or less).....
    
    It helps if your husband has interests that take him out of the
    house sometimes when you are there - but if he doesn't, then you
    are perfectly entitled/deserving to go away from the house and
    take time for yourself there.
    You can't wait around for him to decide to give you time out -
    TAKE IT!
    
    I just took last Saturday "off", for example.
    I took a day off from the rest of my life.
    The shopping wan't done, neither was the cooking, and we had a
    take-away for supper. And the world didn't collapse.
    I went to the gym, had a workout and a long laze, and then I drove
    half-way up the country to a pretty town where I just ambled around,
    looked in shops, and read a good book in a beautiful garden.
    
    Just do it.
    
    
    

    During the years which preceded my divorce, an interesting phenomena
    took place.  As we communicated less about what we really thought
    and wanted, my ex insisted that we do more and more 'tasks' together
    - to the point that I couldn't do the grocery shopping by myself.
    I am one who needs alone time (I think we all do, really).  My retreat
    was to take loooonnngg baths - who will willingly disturb you while
    you are in the bathroom?
    
    You may need 2 points of attack.  One is to make sure that you have
    time together where you concentrate *on each other* and whatever
    got you together in the first place.  (It sounds like you are very
    busy, which may be leading to a sense of deprivation on his part.)
    The other is to carve out at least some space/time of your own.
    
    Best of luck, and let us know what happens.
    
    Alison

    
    	Sounds like an echo but yes, alone time is necessary!
    
    	I have been living with my fiance for a year and a half
    	and we will be married this coming May.  Although we love
    	spending time together, we have to have time to ourselves
    	or we'd go nuts.  Or at least I know I would!  We each
    	have our own things to do.  During the spring and summer
    	he plays softball.  This gives him time to do his thing
    	and I can do mine.  I also go rollerskating once a week.
    	As I am one who hates exercising, this kind of kills 
    	two birds with one stone so to speak.  My legs and body
    	get some exercise and I have time to myself.  I also 
    	have a part time job that gets me out of the house every
    	once in a while.  And I volunteer at the Humane Society
    	Bingo two Wednesdays a month.
    
    	Most of our time spent together is on the weekends.  We
    	usually don't see much of each other during the week!
    
    	I think everyone else has given some good suggestions.
    	If you just want time to yourself and it doesn't have to
    	be in your home, you might want to volunteer to help 
    	with a committee of some kind.  Like the Humane Societies
    	or maybe your favorite politician.  
    
    	Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
    
    
    	JJ
    

    I DON'T WANT TO BE ALONE!
    Sounds crazy, but it is true.  I don't have the need to be alone...
    because there are plenty of moments in one's daily life that we are not
    with people... I feel perfectly well having whoever around, let's be
    one or the three kids, or the husband, or friends...or visiting family.
    I'm just about to hit the 25-year anniversary within a few days and
    that means A LOT OF TIME SPENT WITH MY HUBBY! don't you agree? Why am
    I different to most of the other responses? Am I weird to feel at home
    with people?  I really feel TERRIFIC when I have a bunch of the kid's
    friends in for an informal party... joung kids can be such fun! I just
    love being with friends, or my kids, or whomever...
    Any comments?

    Ana,
    
    You said it -- you have plenty of moments in your daily life that 
    you are not with people.  "Plenty" is in the eye of the beholder.
    Whatever you need in the way of privacy is being fulfilled in 
    those moments, and that's great! 
    
    Beth

Ana brings up a good point, though -- different people need different amounts
of time alone.  I need lots, Neil needs less (he gets most of it on long
solo runs), and our middle child almost can't stand to be without people
at all.  And it can be hard to understand someone else's needs in this area.
Social people often see a private person's need for space as aloofness, or
arrogance, or rejection, or lack of caring, while private persons may see
the social person as nosy, pushy, noisy, or dependent.

The base noter may have to do some communicating with her partner about
their differing needs.

--bonnie

	I agree with the note on different people need different times
alone.  Sometimes I _need_ to be alone and sometines I _need_ to be with
someone.  Usally this depends on moods and pressures I am going through.
Also, Jean needs her own time.  We schedule a couple of times a month
the other has several hours home alone.
	Two or three Saturdays a month, I go off for 8 hours for a session
of FRP.  Just about every other weekend she has a friend or relative she
goes to visit.  We also plan to do things together quite frequently.  
	The outshot of this is we enjoy each other all the more and when
we plan time _just_ for us. It is REALLY special  ;-)  KBear

    But not, perhaps, the kind of "Fantasy Role Playing" that first
    comes to mind. :-)
    
    Basically, it refers to the type of games (usually fantasy situations)
    where the players establish "characters" that run through the game.
    Dungeons & Dragons (tm) is the most well-known example.
    
    --- jerry

<    But not, perhaps, the kind of "Fantasy Role Playing" that first
<    comes to mind. :-)
    
Harumph!  Speak for yourself!  ;-)

      Carol

<<-- 1002.28 by FDCV07::HSCOTT "Lynn Hanley-Scott" >>>
                                -< What's FRP? >-

	In my case, two couples, myself, and another fellow gather
together for a meal, a few brews and save the World of Krynn.   This
is interspersed(sp?) with jokes, conversation, and most importantly....
Star Trek, The Next Generation ;-) ;-) ;-)
There are several Dragon Lance books if you care to read about the current
_adventure_ we are having.		


					grins,
					 KBear