Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Actually, input from male Digits is also extremely welcome and appreciated!

Sue

    A number of successful DEC women have come from the 
    Simmons program.  DEC sponsors scholarships there
    and several groups recruit at Simmons.
    
    Pat

    Have you considered Bentley College in Waltham?  It has an excellent
    reputation as a business school both for graduate and undergraduate
    levels.  I know several people who are in their MBA program; I am
    starting their Master's in Computer Information Systems in January. 
    
    It is not a large school but it has a good variety of courses as well
    as different MBA program concentration.  Finally, it is going to start
    using VAX computers starting in the spring.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Maria

    	I'll second the recommendation for Bentley College.  I'm
    finishing up my first semester in the MBA program right now.   I
    looked at several area schools, and what really helped me decide
    was going to the information sessions they offered.  I found the
    people at Bentley very friendly and willing to talk.  Because it's
    small (as compared to BU or Northeastern), there's a lot more 
    individual attention, which makes it more personal.

    	I've talked to other students there, who feel the same way I
    do.  There are tons of diverse courses and concentrations (it's
    hard narrowing down which courses you'll actually take!). 

    	If you want more info, please feel free to write and ask
    questions.

    	amy

    How about Sloan at MIT?  I don't know what degrees they offer, but it
    might be worth checking.
    
    Marge

    
    I started the MBA program at Northeastern....did about 1/3 of it,
    never finished.  It was ok.  Nothing exciting, some good teachers,
    some bad.  I assume you'll be doing it at nite?  I found Northeastern
    pretty 'cold' to deal with, not much flex in their schedules, payments,
    etc.  Too big for me.
    I then applied and was accepted at Bentley, but never attended.  The 
    people there seemed much friendlier, more flexible, etc.  The course
    offerings were very much the same, though I'm sure folks going to
    one or the other now, would be a better representation.
    
    deb
    

.5>    How about Sloan at MIT?  I don't know what degrees they offer, but it
.5>    might be worth checking.
    
    	Neither Sloan nor Harvard B-School offer part-time programs, 
    so if Sue (or anyone else) is looking to go at night, that
    eliminates these schools.

    	amy

    Sue,

    I have been going to Nichols for almost 2 years now (slowly plugging
    away). They were a small private college, they had a campus in Northboro 
    (now Southboro), and they had what I was looking for.

    The selling points for me was that the average age of people attending
    their part time program was mid 30's. People who have been in industry
    for some time, and was working to get the MBA. The classes were a
    combination of theory and case work, and they don't require orals to
    graduate!!

    I wanted to be able to learn from other corporate experiences, as much
    as learn from formal theory. I was accepted at several big name
    universities in the area, but choose Nichols. I'm glad I did.

    The classes usually have about 15 people in them.  My Economics class
    right now has 11, but my accounting class last term had 25. The
    teachers seem to care about the learning, and not about the grade.
    Sure, you get the grades too, but some colleges place too much emphasis
    on the GPA, and not the learning aspect.

    There is a small group of us that started together, and we have been
    taking virtually the same classes together.  Its nice to know the level
    of work, and the integrity of students when it comes to work groups.

    I would strongly advocate Nichols to anyone.

    Gale

    When I see a resume with MBA on it, I flush it...though I did work with
    a very good one once (he wasn't a vision free bean counter, and he
    didn't go 'get one' because he wasn't succeeding at the time).
    
    I consider the 'Harvard MBA' a major cause of America's industrial
    decline:  short term view, no vision of the future, $ orientation to
    the exclusion of most else, etc.  Other opinions are of course that
    the US growth after WWII was due to HMBAs; my answer is that the US
    bombed the rest of the world flat (with justification), so even I could
    have built US industry to lead the world.
    
    If you want to get ahead in management for example, you need to know
    planning, organization, budgeting, etc.; however, you should be
    learning that now if your boss is not useless (some don't delegate or
    teach anything).
    
    Trust I've cheered you up?  
    
    DEC in particular doesn't need anymore overhead.
    
    Scott
    
    PS happy to chat about it.

    10 years ago I attended BU for about 1 1/2 years towards my MBA.
    I quit when my instructor assigned the term paper the week before
    Thanksgiving, and made it due 2 days before Christmas.  It simply
    wasn't possible for the single mother of a (then) young child to
    accomplish the school demands and keep her kidlet on track.
    
    One experience, for whatever it's worth.
    
    Alison

re:                   <<< Note 887.9 by ORACLE::GRAHAM >>>

>    If you want to get ahead in management for example, you need to know
>    planning, organization, budgeting, etc.; however, you should be
>    learning that now if your boss is not useless (some don't delegate or
>    teach anything).
    
    	Granted, everyone has their own reason for persuing an MBA,
    but not everyone does it to get ahead in management, or to become
    a manager, whatever.  I myself am doing it for the education, to
    understand how things work, why people do certain things, etc.  As
    an engineer, I don't have a business background, nor do I get a
    lot of it in my current job.  I'd like to be able to evaluate a
    balance sheet, understand how budgeting is done, look at cases of
    implementing change, etc.  Since these things are not part of my
    everyday job, formal education is my way of learning.  And when 
    I talk to my classmates, I find quite a few who have the same 
    attitudes/reasoning as I do.  

    	To simply trash a resum� because a person has an MBA doesn't
    seem quite fair to me.  Lately it seems that those people with
    MBA's are really getting quite the bad rap.  Certainly there are
    some people who are out for the money, just want to get ahead ...
    but not everyone is like that.

    	amy

    You might want to look at the CAREER notesfile (currently at
    DEBIT::CAREER).  There's a topic looking for advice on MBA programs
    (topic 38)....
    
    -Jody
    

    I teach at Nichols College in the Evenings, and I have found the
    curricula to be exciting, rewarding, and challenging.  I presently
    teach in the undergraduate program.  Nichols College is sort of a "blue
    collar" MBA school.  Most of the staff work, and the full time tenured
    faculty for the most part worked in industry before pursuing a career
    in the academic world.
    
    It's the old song however.  You will get out of it what you put into
    it.  I think Nichols is absolutely great because of the way the program
    is exploding.  I think we are (MBA) up to ~500 form only 25 some 7 years ago. 
    Try Nichols, you'll like it.  I just hope that after you graduate, that
    you don't run into the myopic attitude displayed a bit in the replies
    to your original request.
    
    
    Andy
    Andy

    I too, am considering going back to school next year and get an MBA. 
    But I'm wondering, if it would really be worth all the time, work,
    money, etc...  I've looked around, and it seems to me that there are a
    LOT of managers in DEC who do not even have a Bachelor's degree, much
    less an MBA.  Their attitude seems to be, well, I made it without a
    degree, so I'm really not impressed with the fact that you have one (or
    two).  A perfect example, is a reply in here, where the person said he
    would trash any resumes with an MBA.  My bachelor's degree, so far, has
    gotten exactly ZERO at Digital, I'm still stuck in a secretarial job,
    which I hate!
    
    P.S. I'm not back in Mass. (or anywhere back East).  I am located out
    in "the Field", Dallas, to be exact.  
    
    How do the rest of you out there in noting land feel about this?  
    
    Becky

    Becky,

    	I think it really depends on why you want to go back, and what
    you expect/hope to get from it.  Here at DEC, I don't think an MBA
    is going to magically open new doors for anyone.  As you said,
    many managers here do not have advanced degrees.  At other
    companies, having an MBA may help.  If you want to stay at DEC, and
    are looking at an MBA to help you get a new job, it may not be
    worth it.  If, on the other hand, you're doing it for the
    knowledge, or to help you get a job outside of DEC, then it may 
    well be worth it for you.

    	There are some notes on whether or not to get an MBA in the
    DIGITAL and COLLEGE notesfiles.  I don't remember the specific
    note numbers off-hand, but I can check.  There are other opinions
    there that might help with your decision.

    	amy

    Not to take Jody's job :^) but I did have these pointers handy:

    HUMAN::DIGITAL 660.* - good MBA programs (specific MBA programs 
    				in the Boston Area)
    		   360.* - A question of MBA (Discussion on whether 
    				to pursue degree or not)
    REFINE::COLLEGE 252.* - good MBA programs 
    DEBIT::CAREER   38.* -  good MBA programs 

    	amy

    Go for it Amy.  Even I can't be everywhere at once.
    
    -Jody
    

If you are a secretary at DEC and you go through the work of
earning an MBA it will lead to your being:

A secretary at DEC with an MBA.

There is no process in place that will magically put you into a proper job
level. Not only is there no magical process there is no step-by-step hard
working way to do it either. Unfortunately it usually takes people a year to
two of trying to accomplish this feat before resigning themselves to leaving
the company, which, in my opinion, secretaries with MBA's should do anyway.

Trying to get out of a job code that you are so obviously over
qualified/educated for is futile. But because DEC pays lip-service to such
ambitions, ie: if you continue your education you can get places philosophy,
people become confused. As I explained to my former roommate, who is now a
former DEC secretary w/MBA, that type of job hunting is like staying in a bad
relationship. There are always small things happening that make you think
things are changing for the better. And everyday you think if only DEC would
change everything would be perfect. Well, as in dating, someday never comes and
DEC will not change for you. People need to accept the fact that Mother DEC is
not the right place for everyone, it can not "do the right thing" for all of its
employees. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not putting DEC down, it's just factual, although
unfortunate, something about not being able to please all the people...

It seem illogical that with the current hiring contraints we do not make more
of an offert to seek out the internal people with the skills we need. But the
process becoomes mired in the red tape of salary plans, unplanned promotions
and other middle management politics. The hope of "we'll try" quickly becomes
"we can't" . 

My recommendation? If you are motivated to earn an MBA for the love of
education, go for it. If you harbor the idea that it will move you out of the
secretarial world here at DEC, please think again.

Gail 

    Thanks Amy (and Jody) I will definately look into these pointers.
    
    And, Gail, I think what you said is absolutely true, and it depressed
    the he** out of me.  I am going to go on and get my MBA, (and let DEC
    pay for it), and then if they don't have a position for me, I will not
    hesitate to look elsewhere.  It just doesn't seem real logical for the
    company to put out this money for me to get a degree, and then let me
    go work somewhere else...ya know?  But hey, I'll do whatever I need to
    do!  
    
    Becky

re: <<< Note 887.18 by XCUSME::KOSKI "This ::NOTE is for you" >>>

This is a little off the subject (rathole! rathole!), but if you're saying that 
it's not possible to go from a secretarial spot here at DEC "up" to another 
position than I'm living proof that you're wrong.  

When I joined DEC my manager said she knew I was terribly over-qualified for 
the position, but that she would find an individual contributor slot for me as 
soon as possible.  In under a year, I had that job (and would have had the 
bucks to back it up if the wage freeze had not interferred).

I'm not saying that if someone made a promise that they're not keeping that you 
should stick it out and suffer.  I just wanted to point out that sometimes DEC 
does do the right thing.

Pre-MBA Sue

P.S. Maybe it worked because my manager is a woman.

P.P.S. I'm personally interested in getting my MBA for the education.  Nothing
       happens magically in this world, and anyone who thinks an MBA (or any
       degree) is a guarantee is not being realistic.  I think an MBA is
       a good all-round degree for someone who plans to stay in the business
       world.

P.P.P.S. How on earth did an MBA get such a bad reputation????

    re last (rathole, well deserved)
    
    I am always careful in wording my editorials. I never said never.
    I went from an Employment Coordinator to an Assoc. Ops Analyst,
    and hopefully a full fledged Info Systems Consultant by this time
    next year. Coming from employment I saw many people stuck in the
    situations that I described.
    
    I think my main point is that there is no company wide REAL process
    to get people into the appropriate jobs. Luckily there are individual
    victories like yours and mine, but you probably know that we are
    the exception. It took luck and extra work to move out of the admin
    support world. I preach the message I do because, I want to get
    the message out to those wide eyed innocent people that believe
    the message of "education=advancement". It's closer to "being in
    the right place at the right time, knowing the right people might
    get you to the right job".

    Gail