Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Sandie,
    
    and if you don't get any pointers that satisfy you then you
    could ask your questions here.
    
    Bonnie

    my pointers are disabled, because my cluster's been on the fritz all
    week....
    
    I'll get to it as soon as I can!
    
    -Jody
    

    There are some specific hair/skin/cosmetic discussions in:
    
    EURO_WOMAN
    topic 139
    
    WOMANNOTES-V1
    topics 562 and 587
    
    WOMANNOTES-V2
    topics 424, 482 and 566
    
    As for tips on *healthy* skin and hair, you might also want to try
    the HOLISTIC notesfile (now located at HYDRA::HOLISTIC).

    Thanks for the pointers.  What I'm looking for are products and/or
    techniques/secrets that people have found to be beneficial to their
    skin and hair.  As far as the skin products, I'm looking for lotions
    or creams that will make my skin smooth and clear.  I'm getting
    sick of buying things that I don't like but end up using because
    they were costly.  
    
    As far as hair: What have you used/done to your hair that has made
    it shinny and healthy looking.  Once again, I've bought expensive
    (recommended) shampoos and conditioners but realize that theirs
    nothing different.  I'm sure I'm not the only one that has done
    this, I just want to stop wasting money and try and find products
    I'm happy with.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Sandie
    

>    As far as hair: What have you used/done to your hair that has made
>    it shinny and healthy looking.  

Nothing; and it works! I remember the time I was getting a cut at a mall-place.
The woman commented on how healthy my hair is (it is). About 10 minutes latter
she asked if I wanted a perm. I found that _really_ funny (I don't think she
did). I don't color it, perm it, straighten it, and I don't cut it nearly as
often as I should :-).

What type of hair do you have? Maybe someone with the same hair type can help
you.
	Mez

	 RE: skin

	 When you use soap to wash your face, it, quite often, does
	 not rinse completely off.  Such products as Neutrogena� and
	 Clean and Clear� do rinse completely off, and I've had very
	 good results with them.  (Neutrogena does strip the oils out
	 of dry skin, so be careful.)  I've very allergic to soaps and
	 such, so if I don't get it all off, I break out very bad.

	 Another product I use for a mask is the Forever Living
	 Products which are all natural and use live aloe vera (when
	 you process aloe vera, it dies...this line of products is the
	 only one with aloe vera that can do you any good, so don't be
	 fooled by other products that advertise aloe vera).  I like
	 it because it's all natural and I'm allergic to many
	 chemical based products (Mary Kay included).

	 Basically, find something that works for you....and it
	 doesn't necessarily need to be expensive to work.......NuSkin
	 is another line you might look into......

	 RE: hair

	 I have very dry, thin blonde hair (doesn't look thin, cuz I
	 have a lot of it, but each strand is very fine).  I use a 3
	 minute conditioner everyday on my hair.  I, too, bounce among
	 products.  I tend to use a lot of the Russ Kalvin "look a
	 like" products that do the same thing as the big names, but
	 are much less. My hair is in excellent condition, but only
	 from spending a lot of time and energy on it.  I don't color
	 my hair, I do perm my hair, but I deep condition before and
	 after, and it takes a week or so to get it into condition
	 again, and I use very soft perms.  For shampoo, I usually use
	 Redkin� Australian Formula shampoos (kangaroos on them!  Buy them
	 anywhere).  Or Pantene�, when my hair gets particularly dry
	 and brittle.  For conditioner, I'll use Redkin 3-Minute
	 Miracle� or Paul Sebastin's Conditioner (leave it in).

	 Again, I have very dry hair, but I treat it nice, so it
	 behaves.  I would never recommend that much conditioning for
	 someone else.

	 For hairspray and hair sculpting products.....make sure that
	 whatever you buy does not have alcohol in it.  I use Nexxus�
	 Versastyle Designing Lotion......and some mousses (but very
	 rarely).  Many of the current Mega Styling hairsprays in the
	 market these days give great hold without sticky, clumpy
	 hair.


	 Good luck in your search.....I don't know what to tell
	 you....what works for me, might not work for you.........

	 kath

    
    My experience has shown me that "less is more".
    
    For my face: No makeup.  I use cold cream whenever I "wash" my face 
    at the sink -- I rub a small amount of the cold cream in and then
    gently wipe off the excess with a steamy face cloth.  I use Pond's.  
    No soap.  None.  Never.  Ouch!  When I feel like I need to use something 
    other than cold cream, I use Aveeno medicated bar.  It's a cleansing 
    bar made of "colloidal oatmeal".  I've forgotten what this means.
    This is what I do in the morning: Maybe wash face with the aveeno when
    I'm in the shower.  Get out and rub with cold cream.  Keep it on till
    after I've dried my hair, then wipe off with the hot cloth.  Then put on 
    Johnson's baby lotion or Oil of Olay.  In the evening, just before bed, 
    if I feel the need to wash my face, I rub in some more cold cream and 
    then steam it off.
    
    My skin (all over, not just my face) has recently become very, very dry.  
    I think it's because I changed my diet last year, but then again, all 
    the women in my family have extremely dry skin; maybe I'm just getting 
    to be "that age".  I use Eucerin on my hands and legs; it's very thick
    and yukky, but it works really well.  Sometimes, if my hands are very
    badly dried, before going to bed I put the cream on thick and then put
    gloves on.  It works wonders when used this way.
    
    As for my hair, I try not to make it do anything it doesn't want to
    do because that either means using gunk of one sort or another, using
    chemicals (perms or colors) and that just dries my hair up and then it
    looks lousy.  I like using Pert.  My hairdresser almost had a heart
    attack when I told her I used it (and liked it) but I tried the
    expensive stuff that they sell at her salon and I don't like it -- 
    I thought it made my hair look dull.  I condition almost every day with
    an instant conditioner.  Right now I buy whatever's on sale; I haven;t
    found anything I like enough to use all the time.  For a long time I
    used Wella Balsam, but last time I used it it seemed to leave an oily
    residue even though I tried to rinse twice as long as I thought I
    should.
    
    If your hair is dull, and you haven't done anything to it that might
    have made it that way (like get a perm or have it colored) I think I've
    heard that a chamomile rinse helps.
    
    CQ

    re: .7 Doesn't cold cream clog pores? It just seems like it would.
    I'm a soap and apricot scrub fan myself. My skin tends to be a bit
    dry (everything in Colorado is a bit dry :*)) but I use liberal
    amounts of body lotion and have no problem. I've just started using
    J & J Purpose which is a facial lotion with an SPF of 12. Here in
    Colorado protection from the sun is important, I don't leave home
    without it. :*)

    As for hair, I use Avon Silver Lights shampoo for blonde and (oh god, it's
    true) grey hair. I use whatever cream rinse is cheapest the day I'm
    shopping. I also use Aussie Hair Salad since I wash and blow dry my
    hair everyday. It works, I get a lot of complements on my hair.
    liesl

    whatever shampoo's or conditioners you use, I would recommend reading
    the lable and making sure it doesn't have wax in it.  baby shampoo is
    extremely bad, it has so many coating in it to not sting those
    eyeballs, that it will leave a coat of scummy stuff on your scalp and
    hair. All hair products will eventually need
    to be swapped. personnaly, I use the australian shampoos and
    conditioners and swap to suave, for about one bottles worth then go back
    to the australian stuff.  some shampoos with high wax content give you
    the appearance of making you hair shiny without moisturizing your hair.
    I also recommend a moisturizing hair conditioner over a wax build-up.
    just because the product is expensive does not make it better. 
    
    in regards to skin care, its all personal preference.  everything I
    have ever read on skin care products indicate that most high price
    cost products are for the name only.  I personally use neutrogena soap, 
    this gently cleans your pores. Its also some very pure soap. then I use 
    some oil of olay, its not oily or thick and your pores will not clog with
    it.  I have heard some comments about never wearing makeup, but I
    always were a base makeup.  it has sun screen in it to protect me, and
    covers my acne scars from years ago when I used ponds cold cream. I
    would never put a cold cream on my face exclusively.  Its purpose when
    initially out on the market many years ago, was as a grease to help
    remove makeup.  it was never intended as  replacement for soap. 
    I don't care what anyone else says, you should always wash your face in
    the evening, you need to clean all the gunk from the day off of your
    skin to keep in clean.   
    clean skin in clear skin. 
    
    all the above are my own opinion and what I learned in cosmotology
    school and when I did alot of theater makeup and research 
    
    
    vivian
    

    If you live either in Mass or Nashua, I would recommend The Body
    Shop.  Emerald Square Mall at North Attleborough or Mall of New
    Hampshire South Willow Street Manchester NH.
    
    Everthing is natural ingredients, both for men and women.  Started
    in England in the 70's by a woman who wanted something that wasn't
    packaged just for looks, something that was refillable, but still
    looked great.  Give it a go, they have very small containers just
    to try.
    
    ..dale
    

    If you have mondo allergies (like me) and your skin won't tolerate
    fragrance, lanolin, wax, whatever-else-they-usually-put-in-creams,
    try a therapeutic fragrance-free lotion/cream like Moisturel (same
    makers as Curel, I'd guess).  Expensive, but worth it if it doesn't
    disagree with your skin.  And I don't wear makeup, so there's usually
    nothing to remove or wash off at the end of the day (I'd probably
    use a facecloth and water if I wanted to wash my face - soap's no
    fun for me to use either - then put on the lotion after drying my
    face).
    
    My scalp tends to be dry and my hair tends to be dry (particularly in
    the winter), so I load on the conditioners - a little at the scalp
    (wash w/Pert or something), and then more near the ends (there's some
    conditioners JUST for ends - good for longer hair which is pretty "old"
    at the ends). 
    
    -Jody
    

    regarding washing a face in the evening.....
    I don't mean to be derogatory towards people who don't wash their face
    in the evening, but whether or not you wear makeup is irrelivant. your
    face is still exposed to airborne dirt, the skin still sluffs off dead
    tissue, oil is still produced along with the dead skin tissue, there is
    the air pollution grit that is airborne that comes to rest on face and
    hands. Its a personal choice whether or not it is necessary to have
    clean skin before going to sleep.  I have hyperallergic skin, and
    my skin will break out from dryness also, so by making sure that the
    days accumulation of scum is washed off I avoid any problems with skin
    allergies. Makeup has absolutely "nothing" to do with it.  It helps
    protect my skin from the airborn junk from aircooling systems and car
    exhaust and the sun's harmful rays. 
    
    I also insist, that just because something is expensive, doesn't make
    it better. alot of products that say they are pure have alot of oils,
    waxes and additives, so read the label. alot of herbs can cause
    allergic reactions, so be careful and do a test spot, (I usually put a
    little dot of whatever I am testing on the inside elbow portion on my
    arm) if I don't have a reaction to it, I can usually use the product. 
    
    vivian

    re .10
    
    The Body Shop products are cruelty-free (no testing on animals or
    using animal by-products), environmentally safe (biodegradable
    products, packaging, and recyclable containers), and botanically-
    based. 
    
    Call 1-800-541-2535 for a terrific catalog.

    re: the body shop products,  they sound great, I would still read all
    the lables and STILL test the product for allergic reaction.
    botanically based products wreck havic if you have allergies to
    grasses, pollen, certain plants, etc.
    
    vivian

    
    re: .10 and .13 Thanks for the references to The Body Shop!  I'd
    recently been wondering if they had any shops here in the states!
    
    CQ

    Thanks for all the replies.  Luckily, I don't have any allergies
    (not yet, at least) so that isn't a problem.  There are alot of
    good suggestions.  
    
    I've been washing my face every night before bed for as long as I 
    can remember.  There have been occasions when I've been too tired 
    to bother; I regretted not bothering the next day.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Sandie
    

    Apart from using Body Shop products for the past eight years, there
    are two products that I wouldn't go anywhere without.
                                                    
    Jojoba Oil that I use at night on my face, twice.  Once to remove
    dirt and makeup and the second as my night whatever.  It sinks in
    after about 5 minutes, or you can massage it in.  I also use it
    as a hair conditioner, a couple of drops with the second shampoo.
        
    The second is Aloe Vera Milk.  I use this after I clean my face
    morning, night, and if its real humid, lunchtime.  You can drink
    this, but why waste it.  Use cotton balls and it dries almost instantly.
    This keeps the face ph balanced (as does jojoba oil), and sorta
    puts up a wall between grime, pollution, etc.  
    
    The two people I started on these two products rave as well.  One
    woman has very very oily skin, and it has balanced out and looks
    smoother, the other has very dry, sensitive skin, and she has noticed
    hers has balanced out.
                    
    For age 42 I still haven't got any wrinkles or lines.  I haven't
    used a moisturiser during the day for about three years now.  With
    the Aloe Vera (milk is better than gel) you really don't need it.
    My oily skin has balanced, there are no dry patches, and my neck
    still is firm.      
    
    This isn't a sales pitch.  I have always been into natural products,
    and have over the years tested many products.  This is the best
    I have found.  Very simple, very quick, but very effective.
    
    If anybody does try either, let me know, please.
    
    ..dale
    

    re .17
    
    Are these 2 products available at any store?
    
    

    In Oz they are available from a good health shop.  Jojoba Oil should
    be *100%* on the lable.  Aloe Vera Juice (or milk) should be above
    98% .  Most people drink it, so check it for additives.  The higher
    the percentage, the better it is.  Mine is 99.7%   As our jojoba oil
    is imported from US its got to be cheaper than here.
                                              
    Use enough oil to cover face and neck first time and wipe off with a
    tissue.  Second time if you are really grubby, then a light coating.
    It even removes eye makeup!!  What's left on your hands, run into
    your cuticles - its great.  Because of the pollution in Sydney
    I use about 1 tspn twice, then when I've wiped all that off
    I just put 1/2 tsp on my face for bed.  Experiment over a few days.
                      
    With the Aloe Vera Juice I use this after I clean in the morning
    and at lunchtime.  Try not using a moisturiser for a few days, just
    the jojoba oil at night and see how your skin is.  If you need to
    clean the oil off before applying the final few drops, apply the
    juice to a cotton ball, a couple of times.
                      
    If I haven't been clear, let me know.  Good luck.
    
    ..dale
    

    
    
    I guess I'm different from most.  I only use water on my face when
    washing, no cold cream, no soap, no nothing.  I wear makeup that
    washes off with water.  Wash Off Mascara from Avon is great!  No
    soap is needed, just a warm wash cloth and a few rinses.  My face
    is pretty normal, I don't think its dry or oily and I don't break
    out hardly at all.  I only use Vitamin E cream on my skin, especially
    my face.  It keeps my skin smooth, moist and is supposed to be a
    healing agent for skin problems.
    
    My hair is pretty normal.  It seems to change with the season! I
    can use just about anything.  I condition everytime I wash my hair,
    which is everyday.  Once a week, I use Breck shampoo, it seems to
    strip my hair of all buildup.  Then I wash and condition again as
    usual.  I have noticed that some conditioners are too heavy for
    my hair, makes it feel kinda greasy!  That honey and Oil one?

    Here's excerpts from an old article listing moisturizer ingredients
    that are comedogenic (zit-causing, to put it bluntly) and
    non-comedogenic.
    
    The list was prepared by a dermatologist.  The gooey stuff was
    categorized by whether or not it caused blackheads, whiteheads, or
    pimples when used at 100% strength.  Most moisturizers use a
    combination of ingredients.
    
    Comedogenic ingredients (not recommended for face, okay on hands,
    elbows, legs):
    isopropyl myristate, isopropyl esters, oleic acid, steric acid,
    pertolatum, lanolin, acetylated lanolin alcohols, lanolin fatty acid,
    linseed oil, olive oil, and cocoa butter. 
    
    Non_comedogenic ingredients (fine for your face, as long as you are not
    allergic to it):
    mineral oil, octyl palmitate, isosteryl neopentanoate, cottonseed oil,
    corn oil, safflower oil, propylene glycol, spermaceti, beeswax, and 
    na laural sulfate.
    
    I used to work with a woman with really teriffic skin.  I finally asked
    her what moisturizer she used.  After some hemming and hawing, she
    admitted that, after washing her face in the evening, she applied a
    little Crisco to her face!!  

    I get compliments on my complexion and the healthy shine on my face
    all the time.  I also want to mention I am a dedicated Sun Bunny 
    (except for winter) and have a very very dark tan from March to Sept.  

    I *HATE* dry skin and based on my regiment, rarely have it (even
    living in Colorado).  My husband (SO's prior to him) can't believe
    how soft my skin is.  I am blonde, green eyed and have a fair
    complexion when I don't have a tan.
    
    NOTE:  I have changed my thinking on how often a person should *clean*
           their face.  What I mean by clean is deep clean.  There is
           a signifant changes in the thinking that you have to keep
           your face squeaky clean to have a healthy complexion.  All
           this really does is strip the complexion of its natural oils
           (my dermatologist complies).  Then you need to buy creams
           to put them back.  Peel Masks are out...damage the top layer of 
           skin.
    
   My face regiment is as follows:
    
    	   LOTIONS:	Revlon Eterna 27 cleansing cream
    			Almay Hypoallergenic Toner for Dry skin
    			Revlon Moon Drops Moisture Balm
    			Vitamin E oil
    			Revlon Overnight success
    			Moon Drop Under Eye cream
    
     NIGHT:
           Gently smooth Eterna 27 cleansing cream over face and throat
    	   and use a face cloth to gently rinse off.  During winter
           use toner every 2 days.  Summer, use every day.  Smooth on
    	   Vitamin E, then Overnight Success.  Use under eye cream.
    
     MORNING:
    	   Rinse face with warm water using your hands.  Pat dry and
           smooth MoonDrops Moisture balm over face and throat.  (note:
           if you don't have dry skin you may want the moisturizer for
           normal skin.
    
    	   Use makeup as normally.
    
    You will notice in about a week how shiny your complexion will become.
    
    BODY REGIMENT:
    
    Once a week I take a bath.  I use All Purpose soap and put
    Vegetable oil in the tub (in place of mineral oil).  This contains
    minerals and vitamin E, more useful to the skin than mineral oil.
    
    I put soap on a body scrub pad and scrub my skin (all over).  Rinse
    and then scrub again (all over) using a face cloth and you will be 
    amazed at how much dead skin you have accumulated over a week. 
    I would not recommend doing this the morning before going out in
    the sun...you will burn.
    
    When finished scrubbing, smooth more vegetable oil over body and
    wipe excess off with a towel.  Just wait and see how soft your skin
    feels.
    
    HAIR:
    
    I color my hair so have problems with dry/overworked hair.  My best
    luck has been with FRAMESI Biogenol conditioner used with a hot
    towel.  I also use INFUSION II shampoo/coniditioner (the kind you
    don't rinse out) as an alternate.
    
    K