Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Would a secretary's chances for moving out of the pink collar ghetto
    be improved by this?  Would a hiring manager consider a candidate 
    previously considered unqualified once that candidate has
    "shadowed" the job in question?
    
    I tend to doubt it since many secretaries actually DO non-secretarial
    tasks for years, not just "shadow", and never seem "qualified" for the 
    title and the pay.
    
    It's happened to me more than once that I've done the work and not
    been allowed even to identify myself as the author because I was
    "just a secretary".  And I'll bet it's happened to most secretaries
    here at Digital.  The catch all phrase, "other duties as required" in 
    secretarial reqs and job descriptions insures that a manager can
    expect the secretary to back up an engineer or other professional
    person and still find her "unqualified" to actually move into the spot 
    if/when the time comes.  I used to bust my buns to prove I was worth
    more because I was capable of more.  What a waste of time.  I just
    became a very *good* secretary.
    
    So what's the goal of this?   So that secretaries can more easily
    be loaned out to other groups?  So that they can more easily do
    the work of more people in the company?
    
    My personal feeling is that standardizing the job, (i.e. no vagueness
    in the descriptions), and putting the job ON the orgcharts and not
    just as adjuncts to those on the charts, would be a much bigger
    improvement.  As stated here, "shadowing" and "rotation" just sound
    like more work for a secretary, as in, "we want you to know as much
    as absolutely possible about this company", which in itself isn't
    bad.  But since secretaries are traditionally not rewarded for what
    they know beyond what the average 10 year old knows, (be polite
    on the phone, take a message, etc), I can't help but think this
    acquisition of added "knowledge" is not designed or expected to
    benefit the secretary's career.

    re .1
    
    THANK YOU!!  Finally somebody said what needed to be said.
    
    I feel the program would be of value ONLY IF it lead to real
    opportunity for advancement. 
    
    The trouble with being a secretary is, if you're good and appreciated
    by those you support, they naturally don't want to "lose" you to
    a better position.  They have a vested interest in keeping you where
    you are.  Also, the interviewer for any position tends not to want
    to antagonize another manager by "stealing" his or her secretary,
    added to which one is made to feel disloyal.  (I know of one secreatary
    who was asked, " What's the matter?  Don't you _like_ working for
    Soandso?")
    
    

    re: .1
    
    You said it!  
    
    And I've been there, too!
    
    -Dotti.

    There's encouragement in this year's salary planning process.  This is
    the first year (CY1990) in which there has been a special, set-aside
    pool of money identified for non-exempt to exempt promotions.  This
    pool of money cannot be used for anything else, and it doesn't impact
    the group's regular raise pool.  That is, it's not necessary to "rob
    Peter" to "pay Paula".
    
    Marge

�    That is, it's not necessary to "rob Peter" to "pay Paula".
    
    Marge, confess!  You've been just WAITing for a chance to say that,
    haven't you?!?  ;')
    
    						=maggie

    
    Just so I understand . . . that pool of money for folks going from
    WC2 to WC4 is for all WC2's not just secretaries.  Am I correct
    in this assumption?  If so, I feel that non-secretarial folks will
    profit more than secretarial.  It all comes down to the preception
    managers have of secretaries.  Until that is changed, it will still
    be status quo.
    
    just my 2c
    
    emh
    

    Yes, it's all WC2.  This year, I would expect many folks who are
    currently in the TMP pool to take advantage of its existence, male and
    female.  It is NOT specifically for secretaries, but it certainly
    provides managers ample opportunity to promote secretaries into WC4
    slots where before they may not have.  It guarantees nothing, of
    course....it simply provides the framework.
    
    Marge

    I started out as a secretary here a little over 5 years ago.  A month
    into my secretarial stint, I became the group's system manager.  I did
    both jobs for secretarial pay and my manager was very supportive.  He
    was impressed with my ability to learn newer technical things.  His
    boss couldn't have cared less.  When I decided to make the career
    change into System Management, one interview really ticked me off.  I
    had interviewed with a few individual contributors in this one group
    and was feeling good, as they too seemed rather impressed with my
    ability to solve technical problems.  I went into the manager's office,
    and sat down.  He looked at my resume and the first words out of his
    mouth were "How can you ever expect to become a system manager when
    you're ONLY a secretary?"  I stood up, and told him, "Probably because
    I can run circles around you on any VMS system.  But frankly, this
    would be a waste of both our time because I would never accept a job
    working for an a**hole like you."  He was quite flabbergasted as I
    walked away.  
    
    I was a WC2 until this past June.  I lucked out when my promotion to a
    WC4 position came through.  The monies for the promotion even came
    through 2 weeks before the salary freeze hit.  In my last job, I was
    making $3+ less than the group's secretaries.  My manager in my current
    group felt that I deserved to be making at least the same amount as the
    group's secretary.  The overall group rapport is fantastic and is like
    nothing I've seen anywhere in this company.  It's really wonderful to
    feel like you belong.
    
    While it is difficult to make a career change from the secretarial
    field, it isn't impossible.  
    
    -- Kristy

    I'm often at a loss for words when I start reading these replies
    and I know that some deserve responses of some kind.  My feeling,
    being a secretary, is that it is an honorable profession and one
    that can make a difference if done well.  The dilemma is that not
    everyone thinks the same way and therefore many people feel it is
    a job one should only strive to "get out of".  Granted the money
    and respect are not always there but that could come in time providing
    we're able to change the way people think.  Not an easy task!
    
    I believe what Digital and a lot of other companies need to do is
    look at ways to "Keep" secretaries and make the job/career a rewarding
    one.  One of the most important skills in being a secretary are
    People Management skills, and this is a skill set that not everyone
    has here at Digital.  We can't all be individual contributors. 
    Some people are good at Support roles and should be encouraged to
    continue doing what they do best.  
    
    I was hoping that the Job Rotation program for secretaries would
    afford secretaries a better perspective as to what's out there for
    them - and in some cases prove to them that they are all ready doing
    what they do best or like doing.
    
    I once took a course titled "A SECRETARY IS A MANAGER" and it really
    didn't sink in until a few years later when I realized after working
    for several busy managers how important my work was to their success
    or perception of not being as successful as other managers.
    
    Secretaries have a lot of power that many have not discovered or
    felt empowered to use.  I hope I see the day that all secretaries
    feel valued and rewarded for what they do.
    
    

>    Secretaries have a lot of power that many have not discovered or
>    felt empowered to use.  I hope I see the day that all secretaries
>    feel valued and rewarded for what they do.

 I hope I see it too. Only when you have had a great secretary and lost her (or
him) can you appreciate their value. This is a tough way to learn, however. :-(

 The Doctah

    RE: 1
    
    Thank you, you have said it all!