Conference turris::womannotes-v2

I can really empathize, but I have no solid suggestions. What kind of agencies
are you looking for in NH? It sounds like basically you're worried that your
friend is making choices in her life that aren't healthy for her. The only
thing that really seems to work when friends do things like that are support
and suggestions, but the support has to come first. I suggest starting with the
areas of her life _she's_ unhappy about (like; if she loves this guy, don't try
to get her to move out; work on her job instead). Offer her books, go to
movies, or bring her to alternative life events. Write her letters. Phone her.
	Mez

    
    
    I can offer you advice, but you probably won't like it.
    
    Back off.  Let your friend grow up and be responsible for her
    own life.  
    
    One comment in your note stood out-you seemed taken aback that her
    parents would 'charge her rent'...your friend is an adult.  She
    has an income.  By all rights she should expect to pay for her
    living space, be it with her parents or a roommate.
    
    I wish less people had 'taken care of' me when I was your friends
    age.  I wish more people had treated me as a responsible adult.
    Eventually everyone has to learn to be responsible for their own
    life and circumstances.  I wish I'd learned earlier in life.
    
    Deb
    

    	Both Mez and Deb seem to have the right solution. Help her
    	with the parts of her life she's unsatisfied with. Leave
    	her alone regarding the rest. After all, it's her life.
    
    	Be there when/if she needs you.
    
    	Scott

    	Not all of us have the same goals. I agree with Deb.
        
    Kate
    

    re:.2
    
    
    Deb,
    
    Regarding the comment I made about her parents charging her rent.
     I want to make one thing clear!  She had been charged rent (along
    with her other sisters and brothers), since she was 14-15!  She
    had a little part-time job back then making NOTHING, and it had
    to go to her parents for rent, and they all also had to help with
    groceries!  I have no qualms about ANYBODY paying rent to their
    parents IF they have the income (or if they are just not doing anything
    with their life) BUT she can't AFFORD rent there.  Yes, she is an
    adult NOW, but she wasn't back then.  Because of the way I was brought
    up, I don't believe in charging rent to my kids, but that's me,
    everybody has a right to their own opinion.  
    
    The one thing that bothered me was that her parents HAD money, they
    were building a cottage up in Maine, and they had 5 cars in the
    driveway.  
    
    I'm not asking anybody to "take care" of her, I just wish there
    was something I could do.  I know that I should just let her grow
    up, but she's made bad choices in the past.  What if she got pregnant
    by this guy, then where would she be?  I personally don't think
    he gives a rats as* for her!  She does care for him but she does
    NOT plan on spending her life with him.
    
    I am not asking for criticism here on my part, I am just asking
    for advice on her part.  I am not the bad guy, and I don't expect
    her to have the same goals as I do, but I want to see her happy,
    and that is far from what she is now!
    
    stephanie
    

    I'm guessing but I don't think anyone wants you to think you're the
    "bad guy".  It's just that it's easy to see that you really care about
    your friend and have many concerns on her behalf.  The problem is that
    you probably can't do anything for her except be there when she needs
    you.  It means that you may have to sit back and let things happen and
    that's very painful to do.  One can't easily and accurately judge for
    another person what the right choices in life might be.  And one can't fix
    mistakes for other people either.  Good luck to you and your friend.
    
    Dondi

    Stephanie:
    
    I wonder if she is in a way "vacationing" now.  I picked up from your
    notes that she has been under alot of pressure for some time - and
    probably very discouraged about losing two jobs.  I wonder if she
    really, really needs breathing space and a non-threatening atmosphere.
    
    I think you just don't want her to get caught there - and pregnancy
    would surely do it.
    
    I think your concern for her is wonderful - continue to show it without
    putting any more expectations on her than she can handle.
    
    Does any of this ring a bell for you?
    
    Briana

    
    
    
    I apologize if I sounded like I was implicating you as "the bad
    guy"...I even added (then deleted) a line that said something along
    the line of "It's really hard to see someone you care about in a
    bad situation."  I should have left that line.  It would have
    softened my reply.
    
    There are a number of unpleasant things that can happen to your
    friend.  Pregnancy might possibly be a real hardship.  However,
    you really can't 'help' your friend until she starts helping her-
    self.  
    
    I agree with those who said "be there for her"...
    
    Perhaps her parents (I can only surmise) charged their children
    'rent' to help them learn responsibility and good money management.
    I have a 9 year old boy.  It's VERY difficult for me to say "no"
    to something he really wants, when I can afford to buy it for him.
    But I do.  Because I know in the long run, he will be better off.
    He's currently paying the rental fee on his violin, out of his al-
    lowance, because he did not hold up his end of the bargain and
    practice over the summer.  Do I feel good about the situation? No.
    I feel guilty as heck.  Do I feel I made the right decision?  Yes.
    
    I hope your friend makes it ok.  And I think she is very fortunate
    to have such a caring, concerned pal.
    
    Deb
    

    
    When I was in college I watched all of my friends go through a
    process of growing up.  That is exactly what this girl has to do.
    However, she has to do it in her own time and her own way.
    You can support her when she needs it, but you can not make
    her change her situation.  She will in time realize what is best
    for her and take action on it.  But again the decision is hers
    to make.   
    
    Hang in there, it is tough watching someone you care about in
    situations you feel are not to thier benifit.  Be there for her.
    You really can't do much more than that.
    
    Michele

It might help you to articulate some of the things you're worried about, then
decide if it's appropriate to help, then figure out how to help. For instance,
you've mentioned pregnancy. If you know she doesn't want to get pregnant, help
her get on a form of birth control that fits her relationship (if he doesn't
give a d*mn, don't rely on condoms!). If you don't know, ask her or talk to her
about pregnancy, children, safe-sex, stuff like that. I bet there are a lot of
agencies that can help her with birth control, even if she's broke.
	Mez

    In some cases we are able to offer advise to others, usually the best
    time to do this is when they ask for it. If your friend comes to the
    point that she can ask for help from you, then dig in and help her.
    Meanwhile you need to realize that we all make decisions that effect
    our lives and we must be responsible for those decisions, good or bad.
    We can not make these decisions for others.

    I've found that sometimes some friendships do not endure the test of
    time. You have grown into an adult with quite different attitudes and
    values than your friend. It is often hard to accept that a person with
    whom you share a common background could grow to be so different from
    yourself. But it happens. If you can not accept her lifestyle and she
    is in no hurry to change it then it may be time to step away for a
    while. Be there for support but you can't tell her how her life
    "should" be run.
    
    Gail
    

    
    	re: Stephanie
    
    	I have a similar situation.  A friend I have had for years
    	got pregnant at 20 and married the guy.  She has a beautiful
    	little girl who I love to death.  But I *don't* like her
    	husband.  I do put up a good front though when I'm with them
    	as I don't want her to be hurt and if he knew, he'd probably
    	forbid her from seeing me. (he's done it with some of her other
    	friends)  She also has a little boy who was fathered by someone
    	else when she and her husband were separated.  (He was drinking
    	alot and would hit her)  I will give him one thing...he has
    	taken the boy as his own.  But my friend works full time, comes
    	home, takes care of the kids and waits on him hand and foot.
    	I have never once seen him help out with anything.  She can't
    	go out anywhere without him very often.  When she does want 
    	to go she has to ask his "permission".
    	He's been in jail and is frequently out of a job.  And he has
    	lost his license many a time meaning she takes him everywhere
    	he needs to go.
    
    	She loves him (why, I don't know).  And because of this, I don't
    	say anything.  I just continue to be her friend.  It isn't easy
    	not to say anything, but it's not really any of my business.
    
    	All I can say is to be her friend and the time will come when
    	she'll need your help and advice.  Just make sure you're there.
    
    	JJ
    
    	

    I grew up in that area, and Rochester is a full blown city, not
    the "Boonies", (although it does have some rural areas like Gonic).
    There are a number of large places that pay pretty well for unskilled
    labor, although I don't know if they are hiring. Places that come
    to mind are General Electric in Somersworth (this is a non-union
    GE), Pratt-Whitney in North Berwick, Prime Tanners in Berwick, Davidson
    Rubber and Clarostat in Dover. Also, the University of N.H. In Durham
    is always looking for administrative and custodial help (I don't
    know about the pay but they have excellent benefits, which include
    being able to take classes for free). Also, there are a lot of small
    factories that tend to pay very well. If she can get to the federal
    building, and pass a civil service exam, the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard
    is an excellent place to work as you can get a lot of training there. 
    
    Don't discount places like supermarkets. My 16 year old cousin is
    getting $7.50/hour just bagging at one of the larger supermarkets
    in Dover!
    
    Good luck,
    Deb

I am surprised nobody has suggested you help her with your time.  I could be
wrong but it sounds as though she has a case of very low self-esteem.

I agree that you can't change her but perhaps you can help her improve her own
self image.  Talk with her to find out her likes and dislikes.  Try and 
determine what she wants out of life.  If she is unreceptive to your probing
then back off, but possibly she will talk to you.

If you can determine what she likes, maybe you can show her how there is hope
to benefit from it.  She sounds as though she expects to fail before she tries.
Some people change, others don't.  The best thing would be to find something
that she can be successfull at on her own.

While you can't change her and you shouldn't force yourself on her, you may be
able to offer positive encouragement that will give her some hope.

Stan

I have been there too.  I had a friend in high school who dropped out of HS
in her junior year.  She moved in with her boyfriend of two months; she
started doing drugs regularly; she didn't use birth control because she
"sorta wanted to have a baby"; she worked as a receptionist or salesclerk or
other low-paying job, but couldn't hold down a job for more than 3 months;
etc.  I was really worried about her, but all my attempts to help her
instead drove her away from me.  Eventually I got so frustrated at not being
able to help her that we drifted apart.

She called me this summer though.  She moved to CA with her boyfriend (same
one, 6 years later, although at the time I guessed they wouldn't be 
together for more than a year.)  She is pregnant, she wants to be pregnant,
and is taking good care of the baby.  She has a job that she has kept for
some time (not sure how long, but more than 3 months) that will allow her
to remain working after she delivers.  She is going back to school part
time to get her diploma.  Things seem to be working out for her.  She is
still not living the life *I* think she is capable of, but that is her
choice, and she is no longer teetering on the edge of ruin.

My point, I guess, is that she needs to grow up, and trying to help may
drive her away.  Eventually she will get her act togehter.  Maybe what she
*needs* is a trip to the bottom to get her started.  True, it is really
awful to picture your friend homeless/pregnant/jobless/futureless.  But
sometimes some people need to hit rock bottom, and have nothing to lose,
before they can find the motivation within themselves to make life better.
Sort of like Al-Anon says you shouldn't continually try to "take care" of
your alcoholic spouse/relative/whatever, because even though it might keep
them from hitting the bottom, it might also keep them from really seeing
how bad their situation is.

D!

    I agree with the gist of former replies.  One thing that I'd add
    from my experience is to suggest that you be sensitive to her
    resentment of any help you offer.  Twice, I've had to back off when
    it became apparent that what I said was being rejected and was coming
    between me and these individuals.  I might well have destroyed the
    relationships if I had continued to "interfere".  In both cases,
    the individuals came back to me later and said I had been right,
    but that they had been unable to even see my good intentions at
    the time.  They just had to go through the hurt that I was trying
    to "save" them from.  And it hurt to keep my mouth shut, but I did.
    
    Bud