Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Women's Law Collaborative, 620 Massachsetts Ave, Cambridge MA 02139.
    (617) 492-5110.  Maureen Monks saw me through the most traumatic
    time of my life with support, wisdom, knowledge, and wonderful common
    sense.
    
    My very best wishes at this time.
    
    DeBanne (who is here temporarily)
    

    Having been through this, I will offer the following suggestions.  Be
    very gentle with yourself at this time.  There will be plenty of time
    later to consider, reconsider and re-reconsider every little thing that
    went wrong.  Give yourself some free time now not to think about those
    things.
    
    When you're considering the material goods split, remember that most
    things (microwaves and VCRs etc.) can be purchased again.  The things
    which cannot be purchased, including photos and household pets, and old
    recordings, are generally not considered of much value by lawyers and
    judges.  You and your estranged husband should work out between
    yourselves an equitable split on those items, so they don't end up as a
    footnote somewhere.
    
    big hugs,
    Marge

    Though I'm be no means was in a similar situation as far as the
    length of marriage, children, $$ is concerned, I felt the same
    emotions in your note as I (and I'm sure the majority of women)
    felt going through my divorce - final just 3 months ago.
    
    The few things that I felt helped me the most were - 1. keeping
    a diary of all my feelings during the process - I wanted to
    be able to look back and reread it and see how I was able to
    grow and be proud of myself!; 2. meet regularly with a professional
    therapist and just drain yourself of everything your feeling - no
    holds barred!; 3. don't think any farther ahead than 1 day, sometimes
    even 1 hour, worst times 1 minute.  Just concentrate on one foot
    ahead of the other.
    
    And remember most of all that YOU WILL!!! get through it - YOU WILL
    be able to look back and know its behind you - YOU WILL build a
    better life for yourself!!!!!
    
    From one who's been there very recently - I can still feel the
    pain for you...
    
    martha

My heart goes out to you.  I was in a somewhat similar situation four
years ago, though not with the imbalance of assets/income that you seem
to have.

I cannot assist you with referrals, but can tell you that what frightened
me most during that dark time was the fear of the unknown.  I had been 
married for over eight years to the first woman who I had even dated, and
thus had never really been "single" as an adult.  I had no idea what it
was going to be like.  But even worse was the fear that I would lose my
son, who was just turning two.

What helped me most was friends - more than I ever knew I would have -
reaching out to me with sympathy and an ear to bend.  The communities in
the notesfiles, especially HUMAN_RELATIONS which I later adopted in
gratitude, shared their own experiences with me and taught me an important
lesson: I was not alone.

You may find some comfort and advice in QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS note 25.
I look back on what I wrote back then, and can see how far I've come in
that time.  It hasn't been easy, by any stretch of the imagination.  But
in many ways, I feel I am stronger, more self-assured and happier than
I was before.  And I have a full life with my son, who will soon be six.

Don't expect to feel instant relief.  The grieving process will continue
for a longer time than you might think, and it is important to the
healing process.

Good luck to you.

				Steve

    As someone who has been through it and has alos represented people
    in divorces I would make the folliwng suggestions
    
    1)  Get a therapist if you don't already have one.  EAP can make some
    recommendations if you need referrals.  This important to your
    emotional well being and because the feelings (fear,guilt, anger etc.) 
    can really get in the way of working the legal issues.
    
    2)  Shop for an attorney that is both competent and experienced in
    handling divorces with major property issues and that you are
    comfortable with.  Remember that this person is going to be involved
    in teh most initimate details of your life.  You must be able to trust
    them and to work with them.  Don't be shy about "interviewing" more
    than on attorney before you make your decision.
    
    3)  Find out up front what the approximate cost will be.  If a flat fee
    is quoted (unlikely with your circumstances) then find out what is and 
    what isn't included in the fee.  If an hourly fee is quoted, ask for an
    estimate of what cases of your complexity normally cost to settle. 
    Getting this clear up front will help to prevent money from becoming an
    issue between you and your attorney down the line.
    
    4)  Once you find an attorney that you like, be totally honest with
    him/her.  Find out what you can do to expedite the process.  Ask
    questions and be sure that you fully understand everything that is
    happening.  (In the interest of saving money and aggravation, you might
    want to make a list of questions as you think of them and call the
    attorney when you have several.  Phone calls are generally billed in
    increments of 10 minutes or 15 minute increments so fewer calls should
    be cheaper.)
    
    5)  As Marge said, the more of the "little" stuff you and your husband
    can work out up front the better.  Otherwise things of emotional value
    will become bargaining chips in the financial settlement.  There still
    may be some of that but it helps to minimize it if you can.
    
    6)  Your attorney may decide that you should use the "grounds" for
    strategic reasons.  However, there are contested no-fault as well as
    non-contested no-fault divorces in this state.  Generally the property
    issues are the reason for the divorce being contested.  I'd state my
    preference for a "no fault" but let the attornye make the final
    decision.
    
    7)  Long term alimony may not be appropriate in your case but some
    short term alimony which allowed you to get further education, job
    skills etc. might.  Discuss it with your attorney.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Polly 
    
    3)   

    The following response is from a member of our community who wishes to
    remain anonymous at this time.

    						=maggie

    ===================================================================


    I was divorced 10 years ago after 18 years of marriage with two teenage
    children. My situation was somewhat different. I dropped out of working
    on a PhD to put him through Medical School with the agreement that when
    he finished I would go back.  Of course along came the Vietnam War and
    then his residency and finally practice in a small Indiana town.  Then
    he didn't want me to work or go to school.

    At the time of my divorce everybody had advice for me.  It seemed that 
    everything I was doing was wrong.  Of course all these people who were
    so free with their advice had not been divorced.  The best advice I got
    was from another woman who had just recently been divorced from a
    doctor. Fortunately I listened to her and to myself.  She told me two
    things.

    	Her whole list of friends changed.

	She got badly cheated on her settlement.

    I can now look back and say that I am proud of what I have done.  My
    life is certainly different.  I have not remarried.  I live more
    simply, work for Digital, travel, have hobbies and take a big interest
    in the lives of my  children who are now grown.  I think I am happier
    now than I have ever been in my life.  I have to tell you that I was
    very unhappy for a long time. What I did during that time was to work
    toward my goals.  My first goal was to finish raising my children, then
    to get myself a job that would allow me to enjoy a good standard of
    living and finally to build for my retirement.  The very first
    objective was to get as good of a settlement as I could.  Now I will
    start to give you advice.

    You will have to work very hard to get any kind of settlement.  Do not
    assume that "Society" is going to see that you get what is coming to
    you.  As a matter of fact that "Society" thinks that everything belongs
    to the man and that he should see that you and your children ( if they
    were young ) do not starve. If you think you should live somewhere
    above the poverty line you will have to work for yourself.  Even a good
    lawyer will not see to it that you get what is coming to you.  Do the
    following.

	Get a good lawyer who specializes in divorce.  

	You do not need a lawyer to pat you on the back and tell you what
	a brave little woman you are.  You need a lawyer to fight for you.
	Go for one who tells you the truth.  Even the truth you do not want
	to hear.

	Start making a list of all assets of the marriage.  Think of everything.
	Insurance, Bonds, Stocks, Real Estate, Boats, Guns etc.  If you
	remember the cost of these items write them down.  Obtain copies of
	your income tax forms, insurance policies.

	Remember your retirement years.

    It is good that you recognize that your husband is clever.  He is going
    to turn all that cleverness toward cheating you and he is going to do
    it in a way that will make him look good.  You will come out as the
    "Woman Scorned". Remember what the woman scorned attitude did for Karl
    VonBulow.  If I could do one thing over it would be the following. I
    would fight like hell ( just like I did ) while saying very nice
    condescending things about him.  I didn't do the latter.

    None of this is going to make you happy.  Happy can wait until after
    things are settled.  You will have the rest of your life to be happy or
    to wallow in self pity.  Right now you need to be tough and mad.

    [....]

    Good luck.

    P.S.  Two attorneys I've referred friends, prospective clients etc, to 
    are
    
    	Ed Mahlowitz - Don't have his number handy but he's in Cambridge, I
    think on Fresh Pond Road.  Have alot of respect for Ed's abilities.
    
    	Joanna Scannell - Sherin & Logan, Attorney's at Law, 100 Summer St.
    Boston, MA  02110.  (617) 426-5720.  Joanna is also very good in this
    area.

    I don't have a lot of advise, but I do want to compliment you on
    having things well in hand. You've done some major work, just facing
    the situation as it really is. Realizing you need to take steps,
    make plans, be prepared for change requires thought patters some
    women are not capable of when going thru divorce. Give yourself
    a pat on the back, plus a big hug. 
    
    I was divorced after 22 years of marriage. Our two daughters were
    just a year or two short of child support any by the time finances
    were resolved it was water under the bridge. 
    
    Being scared is natural. There are many feelings ahead that just
    have to be worked thru, unfortunately, there's no other way. But
    it gets better each day, just take a day at a time.
    
    Sorry, I can't help with a reference for lawyers. But for support
    groups...try your local chapter of NOW, look at the reference section
    on books about divorce, some libraries have a reference drawer on
    support groups. One on one psychotherapy might help in just talking
    through your feelings. 
    
    I presently attend a support group for battered women that meets
    in Hartfort, CT. I learned that you don't have to be hit to be 
    battered. Some women experience emotional battering, economic
    battering, sexual battering...all are addressed in these groups.
    
    If you think of anyway I might be supportive, or you just want to
    write you can reach me at MRC::FLECK or FLECK @ENO or DTN 324-4308.
    Good luck and God bless you. 
    
    Regards,
    Linda 
    
    

    
    Meditation helped me immensely with the emotional side when I moved
    out of a three-year live-in relationship.  You can get a book on it
    to learn it, or join a group or class.  Thank God I didn't have all
    the other things (economic, legal) to contend with at the time.
    

    The following request for information and advice is from a member of
    our community who wishes to remain anonymous at this time.
    
    						=maggie
    
    =====================================================================
    
    I am pregnant, and the parent of a two year old.  If my husband wants a
    divorce, and I do not, can he leave and get shared physical custody of
    the children?  He says he would settle for nothing less than having
    custody 50% of the time.  Can I really lose my children if I do not
    want the divorce, and have done nothing wrong?

    Any recommendations for an attorney and a marriage counselor, in the
    Acton,Massachusetts area would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you.