Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    >I would like to see the following:
    >-	Open communication about the disease of alcoholism.
    
    	Agreed.  
    
    >-	Sharing of personal experiences, either as an alcoholic, as
    >	the relative of an alcoholic, or as the friend of an alcoholic.
    
        This presents a problem.  The so-called "12 Step" programs are
        all anonymous.  They were created as anonymous programs because
        at the time (1935 for AA) there was a horrible social stigma
        attached to alcoholism.  Why are they still anonymous? Because,
        despite progress in understanding and tolerance, there is still
        a stigma attached.
        
        All anonymous programs stress the protection of anonymity of
        their participants.  Now, an individual may choose to break her
        or his anonymity, but should strongly guard the anonymity of
        others. 
        
        I don't see an easy solution to this dilemma.
        
    >-	Questions and answers about the reality of alcoholism, what
    >	it is, its symptoms, cures, and controls.
        
        It's real.  
        
        Symptoms.  Varied.  I suggest looking at the book "Under the
        Influence." (Paperback -- I'll post publisher details later.)
        
        It's incurable (but arrestable).
        
        Controls -- the only reasonably successful program is AA.
        
    >-	Recommendations for how the general public -- and we as individuals
    >	-- should approach our dealings with alcoholics to be as helpful,
    >	yet non-judgmental, as possible.
        
        Learn more about the disease.  Read.  Go to open meetings of
        both Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon.
        
    >-	An honest attempt to share and learn.
    
        I've tried.
        
        				andrew
                                        

    Some clarifications and comments:
    
    >  "Learn more about the disease."
    
    That's what this note is intended to support.  While it would be
    nice if everyone who reads in this conference could take the time
    and the interest to attend Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon meetings,
    it's not likely to happen.  I, for one, would still like to
    learn more about the disease.  My reading a book on the topic
    might help me, but it will not aid the understanding of any of the 
    other noters.
    
    Whether the sharing takes place in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting
    (and I don't want to give the impression that I think this note
    is a valid substitute for such a meeting) or in a forum such as
    this, for people to learn about the disease will require people
    who know the disease to share.
    
    ***MY INTENT IS NOT TO EXPOSE INTIMATE DETAILS OF THE ALCOHOLIC
    EXPERIENCE, BUT RATHER TO SHARE THE UNDERSTANDING AND SUPPORT GAINED
    FROM LIVING THROUGH THOSE DETAILS.***
    
    If anonymity is the issue, this conference has a method for preserving
    anonymity.  That doesn't mean that anyone who is truly uncomfortable
    discussing their own or a loved-one's alcoholism should feel obligated
    to contribute.  But there are people who have felt comfortable enough
    to share their experiences elsewhere, and I started this note in
    the hopes that they and others might be willing to answer a few
    more questions and clear up some misconceptions.
    
    I will enter my experience with alcoholism in another reply to the
    base note once my schedule permits.
    
    Karen

My experience with alcoholism has been limited and on the fringes.  In 
many ways I'm like a stone along the shore.  I've felt the ripples of 
disturbances further out and have recently been hit by a few waves.  
I've never personally experienced the full-force of the hurricane.  
Who knows what the future might hold?

But I have a dear friend who has lived in the midst of the storm for 
all of her adult life.  She was married for over 20 years to a man who 
drank excessively.  Whether he is an alcoholic is unknown, but the 
deprivation and physical suffering she and their four children 
experienced by living with this man are indisputable.  Three times she 
kicked him out of the house and filed for divorce, only to take him 
back when he promised he would change.  She loved him dearly.  
Finally, on the fourth try she went through with the divorce.

She then spent eight long years pulling her life back together, 
struggling with the debts for his excesses that were "her share" of 
the property division, and avoiding any healthy male/female 
relationships that came her way.  Instead, for several years she 
sought out dangerous and hurtful relationships, as if to prove to 
herself that men were worthless, and she deserved the pain she had 
suffered.  But she's strong and she's pulled through and her life was, 
for the first time as an adult and in her own words, "worth living."

Then X came into her life.  She had known him through work for a long 
time.  He is the one who had it all, a promising future in a 
upper-management position of a major company, a beautiful wife and 
family -- and a problem with alcohol.  Because of the latter he had 
lost all of the former.  He'd hit bottom and lay there in apparent 
indifference for a while.  Then he started going to AA and found 
himself a job that would never pay the big money he'd once known, but 
did provide him with a feeling of being needed and a roof over his 
head.  It's at this point of his history that he started calling my 
friend and asking her out.

For months she avoided him.  Wouldn't take his calls.  Turned the 
other way when she saw him coming.  Told him outright that one 
alcoholic in her life was too much; she'd never again get involved 
with an alcoholic; leave her alone.  But people who knew them both 
kept telling her that he had changed.  He'd recognized his problem and 
was getting help and was a new man.  And he was charming!  So 
eventually she gave in, and they started dating.  One thing led to 
another, and before I knew it he had moved in with her and they were 
known as "a couple."

With much concern for her and what she'd been through, I finally met 
him.  And he won me over, well, not immediately, but completely.  We 
socialized with them and included them in our most personal 
celebrations.  Each time I saw her, she was glowing with happiness and 
telling me how well he was doing.  They were both going to AA so she 
could learn more about his disease and they could handle it together.  
There were even murmurings of possible wedding plans, not that any of 
us would have been surprised.

Then he slipped.  At a grand celebration party (she had just been 
promoted to a wonderful new position, had finalized the property 
settlement dispute over the house she and her ex-husband had owned, 
and her children were well launched into productive lives of their 
own, so she decided to throw a party) he served as bartender.  I 
worried about his being in such a vulnerable position, but she and he 
both assured me he was ready for this; he knew his limitations; he was 
strong, because look at all he had to be strong for!  But he took that 
one "little" drink that led to another and another.  Today he's back 
into the same pattern that cost him his "first life."

Within weeks there was a storm raging.  She was kicking him out of the 
house, and he was pleading his way back in.  I hurt for both of them 
because they were so obviously unhappy.  They'd been such a beautiful 
and perfectly-suited couple.  She deserves happiness so much!

The last time I spoke to her she was in anguish because she had 
decided he had to get out of her life and had moved all his belongings 
into the driveway.

The last time I spoke to him was when I called a few days later to see 
how she was doing and he answered the phone.

I haven't heard from either of them for over three months, unless you 
count the message on her answering machine.  She's avoiding me much 
the same way she had tried at first to avoid him.

I don't understand how he could give up this chance for happiness.  I 
don't understand how he could hurt the woman he so obviously loves 
deeply.  I don't understand how a person who can be so witty and 
charming and sensitive and giving can turn into the monster he is when 
he drinks.  I don't understand why she has withdrawn from contact with 
the friends who could provide support.

I don't understand.

Karen

    Your friend's story is heartwrenching and unfortunately not uncommon.
    
    May I suggest you read note 51.0 about co-dependency.  The concept of
    co-dependency begins with the understanding that the person who is
    taking the alcohol, drugs, whatever is a symptom, however painful, of
    an entire SYSTEM that doesn't work.  Part of that system is the
    (substance) abuser, and s/he is quite visible and painful to see; and
    the other part is the significant other(s) who engage in behaviors that
    function to support the abuser and the abusive system by denying that
    it happens, denying its implications, discounting personal worth,
    etc.etc.
    
    It's a whole system of behaviors and patterns and the people next to
    the abuser are as locked in as the abuser.  Some significant others
    become "rescuers"; they're the ones who clean up the vomit, call the
    ambulance, make the excuses for social engagements broken or disrupted,
    etc.  ["Rescuer" is just one type of "enabler", a general term used to
    describe the significant others in the abusive system; "enabler"
    acknowledges that the others function to maintain the status quo just
    as much as the abuser does.]
    
    In addition to the obvious trap of supporting an abusive system, there
    are hidden traps for an enabler.  An enabler is USED TO being treated
    in a certain way; for example, is used to the fact that the abuser is
    unpredictable and can't be counted on.  It becomes a self-fulfilling
    prophecy when an unhealed enabler moves on to a new relationship,
    because s/he typically seeks out a relationship that is FAMILIAR (not
    necessarily "comfortable" or "comforting"!!) Another trap is that many
    of the behaviors in which an enabler engages are actually quite nice,
    social kinds of things to do...like taking care of other people.  The
    problem is, the enabler doesn't get taken care of, i.e. doesn't get
    his/her needs for nurturing met; and it's hard to make the transition
    from "being nice to the abuser because that's the way this system
    works" to "being nice to people because we're in a mutually respecting
    relationship."
    
    [Bythebye, "enabler" is a fairly common term within the body of
    codependency writing and such; "abuser" is my own term, I don't know if
    it is accepted within that body of writing and practice.  We used to
    call the abuser the "identified patient" in family therapy practice;
    meaning that this is the person with all the obvious symptoms, but the
    family or whatever system was unhealthy just as well.]
    
    To reach the point of a long reply: it sounds like your friend is an
    enabler.  Having put a label on it, I still want to stress that it's
    painful and difficult to break out of that pattern.  I also want to
    stress again that an enabler seeks what's FAMILIAR, and we shouldn't
    think enablers seek abusers because they "like" it...it's habituation
    and a lot of behavior shaping.
    
    If this makes any sense, or you want to pursue further, I can be
    reached at CURIE::HAROUTIAN.
    
    (Bythebye, I was an enabler for a long time...and when I moved out of
    that system, my kid sister took over as the rescuer.  She knows it and
    isn't happy about it, and is working to change it.  I'm being
    supportive, AND it's real clear between us that it's a matter of "her
    life and her choices", with a lot of caring between us.)
    
    Lynn 

    Where I come from we have a saying if you don't want to get hit
    by the train get off the tracks.  If a person admits to their
    alcoholism doesn't mean they accept it. the same as a person saying
    yea I know I gotta take these daily insulin shots takes them but
    doesn't do anything else healthy. what good are the shots?? yu got
    get serious. If this man was a admitted alcoholic and was involoved
    in any type of treatment, then the person or whatever he was seeking
    treatment might have  pointed out that being a bartender in early
    soberity is quite dangerous! in any situation.
    
    >how can a person go from dr.Jekyl to mr Hyde?
    
      alcohol affetcs each of differently when we get drunk, we have
    the lamp shade wearer, the joke of the party type or the quiet meek
    type the person who doesn't say a word, then you get the person
    who when he/she gets drunk gets quite angry and abusive.
                                                  
     The best way to treat any drunk is try to get the keys away from
    him/her and let them sleep it off, cold showers don't work, coffee
    just makes a drunk more awake. If they insist on driving themselves
    home ( hosts bewaare if they get ina accident you can be held liable
    in ma) I would follow them (can't think of anything better unless
    knocking them cold will work).
    
      When a alcoholic is active then denial is a part of his/heer diease
    it says they don't have it and they aren't that bad even if eeverything
    falls down around them they aren't that bad.
    
        How to treat an active "TOUGH LOVE" go to Al-non for this they
    are good at showing you how to practise it.  
    
        If you are living with an active alcholic please go to al-non,
    the active alcoholic can wreck havoic with the people he is close
    to. mentally. 
       
         Most of all to those around yu know this IT"S NOT YOUR FAULT!!
    
    Lise

    Re: .1
    
    Andrew,
    
     There is at least one other reason for anonymity. That is to promote
    humility in the alcoholic (not humiliation). Believe it or not,
    alcoholics have enormous egos - even the quite passive ones. Because,
    (among other things) they feel like they have control of themselves,
    and they can stop anytime.
    
     It's to teach the value of humility to the corporate executive
    alcoholic, who may think himself to be "above" the rest of the people
    in the AA meeting - like the skid row down and out types.
    
     Gregg

    This is an anonymous respose from a member of the community.
    
    -Jody
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Karen -- It is obvious that you care a great deal about your friend.
    She is very fortunate to have someone like you to support her.  Even if
    she cannot acknowledge it today, you are helping her with your calls,
    because they show you care. 

    As I understand your notes, you have asked two questions -- 
    1) What is alcoholism? 
    2) Why does my friend do what she does? 

    I would like to address the second question, with some references to
    the first. 

    Please understand that what I have to say here is out of concern for
    your friend, her "special person", and you, and is not meant to be a
    judgement of any of you. 

>>> They were both going to AA so she 
>>> could learn more about his disease and they could handle it together.  

    The way I understand it, AA is to help alcoholics stay sober. For
    non-alcoholics, open AA meetings can help with an understanding of what
    alcoholics had dealt with in the past, must deal with in the present,
    and may have to deal with in the future.  For the non-drinking
    friend/spouse/relative, it's the best place to get educated about the
    disease of alcoholism and all it's insidious twists and turns. 

    *HOWEVER* -- AA can do little to help your friend with herself.  If she
    is not trying to stay sober herself, then she could benefit greatly
    from attendance in a family-oriented program such as Al-Anon. The
    Al-Anon fellowship was formed to help answer many of the questions you
    ask in your note.  I'm sure your friend has asked herself these
    questions MANY times; I know I did. 

    What I learned in Al-Anon was that my husband's sobriety (or lack of
    it) was *HIS* business; how I reacted to that, and how I lived my own
    life were *MY* business.  

    Al-Anon helped me to have compassion for a sick and suffering active
    alcoholic, but to not confuse this compassion with love.  Because of
    drinking behavior, justice did not exist in our household.  I was told
    that love cannot exist without justice. 

    Al-Anon gave me hope for my future and that of my children.

>>> I don't understand why she has withdrawn from contact with 
>>> the friends who could provide support.

>>> I don't understand.

    If you have ever suffered a personal loss, how frustrating it
    is for someone to say "I know just how you feel" when they have
    never had a similar experience!  The same is true for those of us
    who have lived with compulsive drinking.  The people in Al-Anon 
    understand as perhaps few others can what living with an active or 
    recovering alcoholic is like.  The best way to get answers is to 
    "ask the man who has one". 

    Encourage your friend to try some Al-Anon meetings -- 6 is a 
    recommended number before deciding if Al-Anon is appropriate --
    and Co-Dependent Anonymous meetings.  If your friend is a Digital 
    employee, there are notesfiles available for Al-Anon, Adult Children 
    of Alcholics, and AA members.  They are listed in the Easynotes 
    directory.

    One word about returning to old patterns (in this case, drinking
    again).  In AA, this is called a "slip".  Simply put, this could stand
    for Sobriety Loses Its Priority.  It doesn't have to be a permanent
    condition.  A setback needs to be dealt with, much as a setback in any
    other disease. 

    I wish all of you peace on your journeys -
    - call me "Grace"