Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    for views about Long distance relationships see Human_Relations note
    198.* especially .86.
    
    As it appears in your note, you have 2 major issues to work out. I would
    suggest you make no plans to move until both these issues are closer to
    being resolved.
    
    Have you talked to your manager? I think you need to discuss why your
    expectations for your position have not panned out. He/She should be
    able to work with you, set expectations. The two of you should also
    discuss possible career paths for you here, including educational needs
    (you mentioned you are considering returning to school). You may find
    that a series of talks with your manager may clear up many of your
    fears/concerns. 
    
    Armed with a better (or worse) feeling about your job, you can then
    tackle the feelings you have for Dan. I would say that the feelings of
    missing him are quite normal. Look what you have done recently. Moving,
    changing jobs, being separated from loved one, these are all very
    stressful events, no wonder you feel confussed. As best you can, you
    need time to relax. I'd call Dan, tell him your going to take x amount
    of time away from him (cold turkey). Think about the relationship, why
    you want it, is it more than lonliness? What about a future together,
    is he even the type you'd want to spend the future with? Why?
    
    Personally I don't think LDR work. I think people feel bad when they
    move away. But the way I see it, had the relationship been that
    meaningful for you both, you'd have changed your mind before you left.
    If what you need in a relationship is companionship a LDR is not going
    to fit the bill.
    
    I think if you settle into your job, are clear what you should be doing
    and can see some direction and future in it, you will be able to begin
    to reach out to the new community you are living in. You may find that
    the people here are no different from the people there, you just don't
    know them yet.
    
    Good luck with it, try to deal with the issues one at a time!
    
    Gail

    A large  part  of this decision is a matter of priorities. Up till
    now your priority was a career, and you've just started to rethink
    your  priorities.  That's a hard thing to do. I was lucky in being
    able  to  do  so  without any outside pressure, and it was about 5
    years  from  the  time  when  I  was adamant that I wouldn't let a
    relationship  interfere  with  my  education  until I decided that
    nothing is more important than people.

    The other  issue  is  how  good is your relationship with Dan? You
    don't  seem  too  sure  that it will work. How serious is he about
    you?  He's  unwilling  to  move to follow you. While traditionally
    women  moved  to follow their husband's job, I know of several men
    who  have  moved to follow their wife's job, particularly when the
    wife was in a field where jobs were scarcer.

    I had  to  think  about  this  briefly  several months ago when my
    girlfriend  thought  she  might  be  a  job  offer that would have
    involved  moving.  I  told  her that if it was a good enough offer
    that  she  wanted to take it I would move out with her and hope to
    find a job there. It helped that I knew we could afford to live on
    her salary (particularly if she got the sort of offer that she was
    likely  to  move  for), but that wasn't the first thing I asked. I
    was  unwilling  to  give  up  on the relationship, and if I had to
    quit  my  job  to  be  with  her,  so  be it. I later talked to my
    personnel  rep  who told me that they would work with me to find a
    Digital  job  if  I  moved, and that they had just done that for a
    member of my group who wanted to move to be with his parents. It's
    nice to know that there is technical support, but you have to know
    what you want first.

--David

    
    I don't quite buy the argument that he "can't" leave his friends
    and family and everything to be with you -- women have been doing
    it for centuries and nobody thinks there's anything unusual about it. 
    
    I'm not saying he should move -- that's a decision only he can
    make -- only that before you do anything drastic, you should
    seriously think about what kind of relationship you're going to
    have with this man if things do work out between you.  Is it going
    to allow you the independence you need, or are his career, his
    friends, his family, his needs, always going to come ahead of
    yours?  
    
    --bonnie

    I think that you need to give your new position some time, and give
    yourself a chance to make friends out here and be on your own for
    a while.  Decide that you are going to like having moved, and start
    to get involved in things so that you can meet people and make some
    friends.  You don't have to give up your relationship with Dan just
    because you no longer live in the same area.  You just need to do
    some planning around when you can see each other such as on week-ends
    and holidays and such.
    
    I have been in the exact situation you are in now, and things worked
    out for me.  I was dating my husband during college, but took a
    job in Pennsylvania upon graduation because it was the perfect job
    for me.  Also, although I felt that we were right for each other,
    I wasn't quite that sure, and I needed to be independent for a while.
     I moved down there without knowing a soul, and decided that I would
    like it.  I got involved in some church activities and met some
    friends through work so that I had a good social life and career
    down there.  I managed to get back to Boston about once every 6
    weeks to see Mark, and we talked on the phone once a week.   We
    did that for 1 1/2 years before we decided that we wanted to be
    in the same place, and I relocated because it was easier for me to 
    get a job up here.  At that point, by the way, we still weren't 
    sure we wanted to make a permanent commitment to each other, so 
    we waited another year and a half before we finally got married.
    
    So I do think that long distance relationships can work.  I think
    it's possible that right now you are missing having the familiar
    surroundings and people, and you might be looking for excuses to
    go back to what was familiar.  Try getting involved in outside
    activities to meet people and make some friends.  And you and Dan
    can get together for a week-end once in a while, and talk on the
    phone frequently.  I think that all relationships require some work
    and commitment on the part of the people involved.  It's just that
    long distance relationships sometimes require a bit more work, and
    some creativity to keep them going.
    
    Cathy

Some mail just went out recently on a _lot_ of sales and sales support
openings, located around the country (I believe), opening up. KO is putting an
emphasis on sales now, so going into sales may not be the career hit you assume
it is. I can probably get copies of those mailings (I deleted them) if you're
interested.
	Mez

    I have  the mailings that Mez refers to. (Our manager said that it
    wasn't  a  hint,  but  when  I got that 5 minutes after my keycard
    stopped working I wasn't sure.)

    How far  is  "long  distance"? I know of two couples that survived
    living  2  hours  apart  and one where they were 4 hours apart. In
    each  case,  one  of them commuted every weekend. In two cases the
    woman commuted, in once case the man did.

--David

    My aunt and uncle are a two-career couple that live and work a fair
    distance apart.
    
    Walt lives in Marblehead, Mass. and works in Lynn.
    Jean lives and works in Washington,DC and has a position which requires
    her to travel around the country from time to time for assignments
    which last from 3 days to 4 months.
    
    They see each other two or three times a month and talk on the phone
    three or four times a week.  They take vacations together.  They are
    quite happy and very committed to both their careers and to each other.
    
    This arrangement has worked for them for over eight years now. 
    
    Early in their marriage [they've been married for 38 years] the
    arrangement was similar -- he worked in Munich, she in London.  When
    they decided to have children, they had three and lived full-time
    together.  She did not work until the youngest was in 1st grade.  When
    he, the youngest that is, entered high school she extended her job
    search and found one that suited her in DC.  The kids stayed with Walt,
    and she came home every week-end.  When the kids were no longer at
    home, Walt began to travel more extensively.
    
      Ann

You have my sympathy.  If we were in a saloon, I'd buy you a beer and
we could swap "relocation" stories.  In fact, I'm surpised there are
not mucho support groups for relocatees, inside and outside DEC. 

For me, moving from Illinois to Massachusetts was incredibly
painful. Took a loooong time for me to feel that this place was home.

I've talked to a lot of people about how they responded to moving to a 
new place, and almost no one enjoyed it.  Lots of us took quite a 
while to cease longing after the old place and start liking it here.

Moving to a new place can be *** real *** hard.  The new place rarely 
has much warmth and the old place, especially with a sweetie there,
draws us back with a thousand feelings.  

Many people dislike talking about the trauma of moving.
In fact, a fellow who talked about his relocation blues was rather 
curtly treated in a members-only notes file that is otherwise 
*very* solicitious of members feelings. The curt responses more or 
less equalled, "Gee, I felt at home right away. What's wrong with 
you."  Surprising to me ... as almost every one I ever talked to about
it found the experience painful. Many bennies after a while -- 
I'm delighted that I live here now -- but it took a while.)

Good luck. Feel welcome to call or write if you want to chat about it.

     Meigs

    I will echo .8 about the difficulty of moving.  Particularly if
    you move *into* New England *from* almost anywhere else, it is
    difficult to meet and make new friends.  The only times I have moved
    into a new house and not been greeted by the new neighbors with
    enough food to make a meal have been in New England.  My mother
    said that it took her *years* to realize that people coming and
    sitting in church with an empty seat between her & them thought
    they were sitting "next" to her in New England.  As a culture, New
    Englanders prefer more personal space than other US sub-cultures.
    
    For many years, Ma Bell kept records about their New England customers
    for about 10 years.  Apparently, native New Englanders return to
    New England after leaving the area within about 7 years -- they
    get lonely for their family!  However, if you didn't grow up with
    them, you are a 'transplant' just about forever.  Almost all of
    my close friends are New England transplants, not natives.
    
    It takes a little more work at finding compatable souls and similar
    interests, but it can be done.  Hang in there for a while longer
    before deciding that what you want isn't here.
    
    Alison

RE:  .0

Sounds like a tough situation.  Hang in there; I'm sure things will be
clearer later.  One thing I noticed in your note was worry about what
other would think (like your mother) and what you had been trained to
think was important.  If I was you, I'd try and throw that out and
really try and focus in on what I wanted and what my own priorities
were.

Also, it sounds like you feel you are in a pressure cooker.  Is there
a way to take the heat off yourself a little?  Maybe you can agree
with "Dan" to keep your options with him open for a while as you try
and sort things out.

Draw on your inner strength. What was meant to be will be.  We get
exactly what we need to grow if we can listen and be aware...

best wishes
john