Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    re: .0
    
    I never heard of using Pennyroyal to keep bugs away, nor have I heard
    of any cautions not to use it during pregnancy.  I know there are
    herbal remedies which "promote menstruation", and it wouldn't surprise
    me if Pennyroyal was one of them.  But the note doesn't state the route
    of ingestion, and assuming she was using an oil to smear on her skin as
    a bug-repellent, I'm not sure it would have the same effects as if it
    was ingested (as a tea, for example.)  So, in a nutshell, I don't know.
    
    An alternative to bug-repellants that contain DEET (and other stuff
    that makes mucous membranes like your lips numb for hours) is Avon's
    Skin-So-Soft.  It's a bath oil, and it feels like a bath oil, but I've
    always found it to work well.
    
    If you're going camping or going to be in the outdoors, it helps to
    stay away from sugar and to eat garlic before (and during if it's
    overnight) your outing.  It will keep some bugs away.  Some people,
    too.
    
    (Ooooh, my goodness!  How flattering to be cited as a resource! ;^)  )
    
    Susan

    Pennyroyal is   an  abortifacent.  period.  If  you  want  to  get
    pregnant,  or stay pregnant avoid it. I have heard of at least two
    cases  where  a  large  group  of  women  used pennyroyal as a bug
    repellant  (it does work), and they *all* got thier periods within
    a day. In one case they were burning the plants, in the other they
    used the oil.  Drinking it as tea also works some of the time.

    I believe  that  the  mode  of  operation  is that pennyroyal is a
    spasmodic  (causes  muscle contractions), so you should also avoid
    it if you have tight muscles or muscle cramps.

    (A plug  for  =wn=  parties):  some of this information comes from
    talking to Suford et al. at the last =wn= party.

--David

There's a study in the latest Smithsonian on Skin-So-Soft. According to the
study (which I did not read myself), while it does repel bugs, it doesn't do it
nearly as well as DEET.
	Mez

    Mez,
    
    I read the article in the Smithsonian, I'm not sure of the figures
    but the efficacy of Skin-So-Soft compaired to DEET was on the order
    of 20-30%.
    
    Bonnie

    re .3, .4:
    
    I don't need the article to tell me that Deet-based bug repellants
    work very well for me (and all my friends), and I know that
    Skin-So-Soft is, at the very best, a very mediocre bug repellant
    for me.  Most my friends get the same results.
    

 DEET is a very useful bug repellant, and works on many different types of
biting bugs. It is somewhat malodorous compared to SSS. Skin-So-Soft seems to
only work well against black flies, but smells much better. I would not
hesitate to use SSS on my baby, but I am somewhat concerned about using DEET
containing products on her. One reason is that she tends to like the taste
of those types of repellants (as do my cats) and tries to lick my arms when
I have some on. As I am unsure of the longterm effects of DEET on the
nervous system (or any other system for that matter) I shy away from using
DEET on the baby.

 The Doctah

    DEET doesn't have to be malodorous. We've found an unscented version
    of Off that is very high in DEET. The same Smithsonian article that
    Mez and I referredto earlier indicated that DEET has been extensively
    tested and that no harm has been shown to come from injesting small
    amounts of it.
    
    Bonnie

    A friend  of  mine who is a doctor told me that about a quarter of
    people  tested  showed skin sensitivity to DEET. The test was done
    on  the  inside of the elbow, which tends to be quite sensitive to
    chemicals,  so  fewer people would have trouble with it if it were
    used elsewhere.

--David

    Now, what we need is someone to market a #15 or higher sunblock
    containing DEET....
    
    /Charlotte

      SSS is widely used by those of us in the horse world. A standard
      mix is SSS + water + oil of citronella or oil of eucalyptus. It
      may not be the best but it works and I've never had a horse get an
      allegic reaction which I have had problems with using the real
      bug repellants. Luckily, here in Colorado bugs aren't as big a
      problem as elsewhere. liesl

	If you follow the directions regarding what to avoid (on
the DEET label), keep away from synthetics etc., I found DEET worked
quite well when I put it on my socks and collar, instead of on my skin.

			Kbear

    Slight digression here....RE: ingestion vs rubbing on skin
    
    As a massage therapist, I am well aware that what is rubbed on the
    skin ends up in the bloodstream. Take a piece of garlic and put it
    between your toes. Tape your toes so it doesn't escape, and put a
    sock on. Within an hour (could take less time, probably won't take
    more)  you'll taste garlic in your mouth. And from the medical
    point of view, this is exactly how nitroglycerin works. 
    
    The point is, if something's toxic, it may be just as toxic appplied
    topically as ingested. Or if not actually toxic, it'll still DO 
    whatever it DOES, to a greater or lesser extent. 
    
    Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.
    
    --DE
    
    

I couldn't find the right note but this was related.  There was a
discussion about the herb Pennyroyal and that it *should not* be used
when pregant.  I remembered reading about others.  Here they are:

Autumn Crocus
Barberry
Golden Seal
Juniper
Male Fern
Mandrake
Pennyroyal
Poke Root
Rue
Sage
Southernwood
Tansy
Thuja
Wormwood

They are emmenogogues which stimulate activity in the uterus.

From Holistic Herbal, By David Hoffman

The following herbs are emmenagogues (which stimulate the uterus) and
SHOULD NOT be used during pregancy (according to David Hoffman, The
Holistic Herbal).

Autumn Cross
Burberry
Golden Seal
Juniper
Male Fern
Mandrake
Pennyroyal
Poke Root
Rue
Sage
Southernwood
Tansy
Thuja
Wormwood

john

Since she's been pregnant a couple of times and has an herb garden and reads
a lot on the subject, I took a copy of .13 (only) home to Merle.  Here's her
comment:

'Actually, quite a number of the herbs listed in .13 are herbs that shouldn't be
taken internally, period, like autumn crocus, poke root, mandrake, rue and
tansy, as they are either extremely toxic or have a high incidence of strong
allergic reactions among users.  Two books that I'd recommend as references for
women's herbal medicines are "Hygieia: A Woman's Herbal" by Jeannine Parvati,
and "The Rodale Encyclopedia of Herbs."  The Rodale book is especially good to
consult if you are concerned about the potential toxicity of any particular
herb, although it does tend to knock old herbal standbys like comfrey for
containing potential carcinogens.  However, I prefer erring to the side of
caution when it comes to taking herbal remedies.
							- Merle Insinga'

    in re comfrey,
    
    We had a comfrey bush and used to eat its leaves as 'greens'. We
    stopped doing so because we read an article that indicated it
    was linked to stomach cancer.
    
    Bonnie

    The one about sage is kinda frightening. Sage stuffing in the turkey
    is part of what makes our Thanksgivings special.

    	Would anyone know the effects of breathing sage while burning it?
    	
    
    Mjo