Conference turris::womannotes-v2

710.0. "In NEW_HAMPSHIRE Notes..." by IMBACQ::SCHMIDT (Bush: Triumph of rites over rights) Tue Jul 25 1989 11:53

  Atteched are some goings-on currently going on in the PICA::NEW_HAMP-
  SHIRE notesfile.  They relate to State Senator Tom Magee, who was
  elected to the senate with an Anti-Abortion, Pro-Morality stance as
  one of his major planks� but was recently embarrased when found in
  attendence at a private strip show.

                                   Atlant


� His opposition at the time was incumbent Barbara Pressley, who came
  down squarely on the side of Pro-choice and was soundly defeated,
  apparently mainly on that issue since that's most of what Tom Magee
  talked about during the election.

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


          <<< PICA::DISK$ADMIN:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NEW_HAMPSHIRE.NOTE;2 >>>
                             -< The Granite State >-
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Note 823.0               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers              12 replies
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights" 26 lines  24-JUL-1989 09:27
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Spinning off a tangent from Brian's reply:

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Note 804.82               TAXATION WITH REPRESENTATION                  82 of 85
TURBO::PHANEUF "Business Info Tech (Matt 11:12)"     31 lines  21-JUL-1989 20:53
                          -< 52-40, or fight!! 8^{) >-
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    ...I'm a card-carrying, anti-tax, pro-life, Reagan
    Republican! I grew up in Nashua, and live there (almost as a 
    resident alien) now. I'm not ready to give up the fight, yet!!
    We managed to elect solid conservatives from the 1st Ward,...
    =======================================


  I was away on vacation while the story was breaking, but upon my
  return I was surprised to find no mention of the Ward 1 mini-scandal
  in this conference.  (There mustn't be enough Nashuans that follow
  both real politics and this conference.  Or maybe the story wasn't
  printed in the Union Bleater.  It made it into both the Globe and
  the Telegraph -- I read about it in the Globe while in Vermont!)

  How do you feel *NOW* about Tom McGee and how well he hews to the
  morality espoused by the religious right?

                                   Atlant


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Note 823.1               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 1 of 12
MINAR::BISHOP                                         3 lines  24-JUL-1989 13:21
                            -< So, what happened? >-
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    How about giving us the story before the editorial?
    
    		-John Bishop


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Note 823.2               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 2 of 12
CHIRPA::SWONGER "What more could you ask for?"       16 lines  24-JUL-1989 13:36
                                 -< The story >-
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>                            -< So, what happened? >-

	  That was Atlant trying to emulate his favorite paper, the
	Union Leader, by not giving the story. 8^)

	  What happened is that a lounge in the Clarion Hotel lost
	its liquor license for a week (I think). The reason for this
	was that two strippers were found to be performing "sexual
	acts" at a stag party there. Tom Magee was in attendance,
	which is probably the only reason the story would get any
	ink. Or, at least front page ink. (I heard it on WGIR
	myself) The report I heard said that the penalty was
	comparatively minor because the Clarion had been very
	cooperative and has had a very good track record.

	Roy


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Note 823.3               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 3 of 12
NSSG::FEINSMITH "I'm the NRA"                        12 lines  25-JUL-1989 09:43
                                -< Sodom of NH >-
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    Apparently, an inspector for the State Liquor Authority (or whatever it
    is called) was in the Clarion on a standard checkup when he "observed"
    the stag show, which was a private party. He spoke to the manager of
    the hotel, and the Police were called, and subsequently raided the
    party. 
    
    It amuses me to see this very "useful" application of police resources,
    while drug dealers are operating in French Hill! Sounds like the
    inspector wasa ticked off that he wasn't invited. In all, a total waste
    of taxpayer money and police staffs.
    
    Eric


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Note 823.4               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 4 of 12
DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Conliberative"                    10 lines  25-JUL-1989 09:48
         -< They should only enforce the laws *I* think are important >-
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>    It amuses me to see this very "useful" application of police resources,
>    while drug dealers are operating in French Hill! Sounds like the
>    inspector wasa ticked off that he wasn't invited. In all, a total waste
>    of taxpayer money and police staffs.
    
    I don't find the "don't they have better things to do" argument very
    convincing.   You could argue that they shouldn't be giving speeding
    or parking tickets, etc. etc. etc.
    
    	db


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Note 823.5               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 5 of 12
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights" 43 lines  25-JUL-1989 09:57
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  Here's the story from the July 3 Telegraph -- There's probably an
  earlier article but my review of the not-yet-recycled newspapers
  didn't find it:

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  MAGEE: STRIP SHOW NO BIG DEAL

  Liquor Commission probing June 10 party

  NASHUA -- State Sen. Thomas McGee said today that he thinks an incident
  involving a stag party at the Clarion Somerset Hotel has been blown out
  of proportion and would probably not have even become an issue if he
  hadn't been there.

  Magee was a guest at a June 10 stag party at the Clarioin which was 
  broken up by a State Liquor Commision inspector.  The party was broken 
  up after two women strippers at the party were charged with indecent
  exposure for allegedly having sex.

  The liquor commision is now investigating the incident to see if any 
  liquor laws were violated.  Laws prohibit indecent performances w[h]ere 
  liquor is served.

  "I don't see what the big deal is," Magee said.  "This really wouldn't 
  be a big deal if I hadn't been there," he continued.  "You guys don't 
  cover half of the Board of Aldermen's meetings, but I show up at a party
  three weeks ago and, all of a sudden, you're writing a story on it."

  Magee said he was an invited guest to the party, which was held for 
  local businessman Chris Fokas, owner of Martha's Exchange Restaurant 
  on Main Street.  At the party, strippers began having sex together and 
  were later arrested, according to Magee.

  A spokesman for the State Liquor Commision said today that no violations
  have been issued as a result of the investigation.  Mark Long, of the
  commision's enforcement division, said, the commision probably won't
  have a report of any violations until later this week.

  The two women arrested at the party were identified as Joanna Robato,
  22, 91 Broadway, Everett, Mass.; and Laura Schaeffer, 24, 23 Russell
  Court, Malden, Mass.


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Note 823.6               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 6 of 12
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights" 19 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:04
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  Here's the article from the New England News Briefs section of
  the July 5th Globe:

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  Strip Show Spurs license investigation

  NASHUA, N.H. -- State Liquor Commission investigators are expected to
  report this week on whether a hotel's liquor license was violated when
  two female strippers performed sexual acts at a bachelor party in a
  hotel meeting room.  The strippers performed at a party attended by 50
  men, including state Sen. Thomas Magee (R-Nashua), at the Clarion Som-
  erset Hotel.  "It wasn't a male and a female, so I don't know if you
  would call it sex," Magee said.  The June 10 party was broken up when a
  commision investigator on routine rounds discovered the women apparently
  having sex together and called the police.  David Austin, chief of en-
  forcement for the liquor commision, told the Sunday News of Manchester
  that the commision is investigating the party to see if any liquor laws
  were violated.  (AP)


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Note 823.7               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 7 of 12
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights" 64 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:19
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  Here's a follow-up article from the Telegraph, dated about July 10th
  or so:

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  CLARION LOUNGE LIQUOR LICENSE SUSPENDED

  By Kevin Landrigan
  Telegraph Staff

  CONCORD -- The State Liquor Commision today banned private liquor 
  parties and the sale of alcohol in a lounge at Nashua's Somerset 
  Clarion Hotel for five days -- starting July 27 -- because it was
  the scene of a bachelor party where two female strippers engaged
  in sex acts with each other.

  The action quickly dispenses with the June 10 case that liquor 
  officials say was reported by liquor investigator James Camp who
  "just happened by" the private party in a Clarion function room
  attended by about 50 men, including state Sen. Thomas Magee, R-Nashua.

  After little debate, the two sitting members of the three-person 
  liquor commision decided not to touch Clarion's second state liquor 
  license to serve alcohol in the hotel's restaurant.

  The third commision member, Costas Tentas, retired on July 1 leaving 
  the agency short-handed until Gov. Judd Gregg names a replacement.

  "The Clarion, from July 27 to August 1, can't sell any liquor 
  without serving food.  Whether it's in a lounge or a private party, 
  that sale won't be allowed," said George Mouflouze, chief of the 
  commission's enforcement division.

  Deputy Chief David Austin said the restaurant's liquor license was 
  left untouched because of the Clarion's previously unblemished record 
  with the state liquor aency, since it opened in January 1988.

  "Their past has been clean.  We're recognizing this with the 
  recommendation," Austin said.

  Commissioner Roger Boisvert said today that the panel culd have
  yanked both licenses for up to seven days.

  "I'll accept the suspension and hope nothing like this occurs 
  again," echoed Commissioner Lyle Hersom.

  The luxury hotel was charged with violation of state laws and liquor 
  agency rules by permitting an "unlawful, disorderly and immoral purpose."

  The commission report described theparty as "a live pornographic 
  exposition performed by two females for a private male audience with
  actual participation in said exhibition by certain members of the 
  audience."

  The party was held for Chris Fokas of Nashua, owner of Martha's 
  Exchange Restaurant on Main Street.

  Magee has said organizers didn't know they were breaking the law.  
  Last week, Magee said none of the members of the audience participated 
  in the show.  Today he revised his statement to say that he didn't see 
  any such participation, but such could have occurred.

  The two women subsequently pleaded guilty to indecent exposure in 
  Nashua District Court and were fined $224 each.


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Note 823.8               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 8 of 12
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights" 32 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:25
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Eric:

>    It amuses me to see this very "useful" application of police resources,
>    while drug dealers are operating in French Hill! Sounds like the
>    inspector wasa ticked off that he wasn't invited. In all, a total waste
>    of taxpayer money and police staffs.

  Whether you think this was a waste of money wasn't the question I
  was raising, although you're comments are, of course, welcome.  The
  question I raised was "If you voted for Magee for his pro-morality
  positions (as exemplified by his opposition to Abortion), do you
  still feel strongly that he represents your position?"  Here's a
  bit of .0 to remind you:


>> ...I'm a card-carrying, anti-tax, pro-life, Reagan
>> Republican! I grew up in Nashua, and live there (almost as a 
>> resident alien) now. I'm not ready to give up the fight, yet!!
>> We managed to elect solid conservatives from the 1st Ward,...
>>    =======================================
>
>   ...
>
>   How do you feel *NOW* about Tom McGee and how well he hews to the
>   morality espoused by the religious right?


  I also find it fascinating that the only individuals who were
  officially penalized in this whole incident were the two women.
  I guess "nobody" must have paid them ehh?

                                   Atlant


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Note 823.9               Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                 9 of 12
NSSG::FEINSMITH "I'm the NRA"                         9 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:26
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    RE: .4, except that nobody was being bothered by the PRIVATE PARTY,
    except for an uptight inspector. This wasn't a pay-per-view open show,
    it was private and the "entertainment" was supplied by two consulting
    adult women. To bother with raiding the party was bulls*&t! As was
    discussed earlier, if a politician wasn't there, the whole incident
    might not have occurred, or at least the papers wouldn't have bothered
    covering it.
    
    Eric


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Note 823.10              Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                10 of 12
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights"  5 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:29
     -< (Remember, as a Senator and Alderman, he helps *MAKE* the laws.) >-
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  I also find it fascinating that Tom, by his own statement, didn't know
  that it was "wrong" to pay two women to perform sex in front of a
  crowd.  Or shall we believe that he thought they did it for free?

                                   Atlant


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Note 823.11              Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                11 of 12
IMBACQ::SCHMIDT "Bush: Triumph of rites over rights" 16 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:32
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Eric:

>    RE: .4, except that nobody was being bothered by the PRIVATE PARTY,
>    except for an uptight inspector. This wasn't a pay-per-view open show,
>    it was private and the "entertainment" was supplied by two consulting
>    adult women. To bother with raiding the party was bulls*&t! As was
>    discussed earlier, if a politician wasn't there, the whole incident
>    might not have occurred, or at least the papers wouldn't have bothered
>    covering it.
    
  You've come *EXACTLY* to the point.  Now, would you mind explaining
  why Tom believes that abortion and other matters of your morality and
  mine are the state's business, but matters of his morality are his
  alone?

                                   Atlant


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Note 823.12              Anti-Abortion but Pro Strippers                12 of 12
NSSG::FEINSMITH "I'm the NRA"                        15 lines  25-JUL-1989 10:33
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    RE: .8, I would have included both replies in one, but our replies
    passed on the network.
    
    I think the issues are two separate items. My own view on abortion is a
    moral belief which is based on the idea that all parties involved are
    not consulting adults, but this isn't an abortion note. I view this
    type of stag show in the same light as legalized prostitution. As long
    as no one is being coherced into it and those involved are consenting
    adults, it should be no one else's business. The two "entertainers"
    have decided to make their livings doing such shows, so who am I to try
    to tell them they're wrong as long as they do it of free will.
    
    My issue was that the raid was a waste of time and just harassment.
    
    Eric

    Tom sounds pretty consistent to me.  Judging from what I've read
    above, he appears to see women's bodies as something created for
    men to use/abuse.  
    
    I especially liked Atlant's comment about what women do with their
    bodies should be the state's issue but what Magee does on his private
    time should be his business.  That sums it up...
    
     

    re: .0
    
    I don't know if you asked the people in the other conference whether
    or not you could cross-post their notes to this notesfile, but,
    fwiw, it's considered bad notes etiquette not to consult noters
    before cross-posting their notes.  
    
    -Jody

    I *loved* the part about the "consulting adults"  - I laughed
    right out loud.  What ignorance - I'm glad he's not trying to
    speak for the pro-choice movement!!
    

    Re: .3
    
    The part that popped my eyes was McGee's idea that since it wasn't a
    male and a female, it wasn't really sex.  Yo, McGee!  Clue in!

    RE: .3, whether you believe it or not, typo's do occur (the term
    consenting was used later on, which is what the "consulting" was
    supposed to be. And how are you defining "ignorance"? Since the two
    "entertainers" agreed to do their act, I think consenting is a fitting
    term. Do you disagree?
    
    Eric

    re .5:
    
    I noticed that you used the term "consulting adults" TWICE in note
    #823 in NH notes, which is why I labelled it ignorant.  I didn't think
    it was a typo since you used it twice.  You used it in 823.9 and *again*
    in 823.12.  Maybe you corrected it in another reply in NH notes, but I
    did not see that reply because that reply was not in the string in .0
    of this note.
    
    If they *both* *were* typos, then I apologize.  If they weren't typos,
    then I'm glad to know that you learned something about the English
    language.  There are too many people who can't use it very well.
    

    A reread of the base note shows the misspell in .9, but correct
    spelling in .12 (line 7 of text). The spelling in .12 was my intent. 
    Typing is not by strong point, and often the brain packets and the hand
    packets have collisions, resulting in "ult" instead of "sen".
    
    Eric

Look people, relax about the spelling.  At any rate, his
point was made (and I am in no way saying that I agree with
it!).

What really irks me is that, as pointed out earlier- the
two women received the only fines.  I wonder exactly what
the organizers of the party got, and if the owner of Martha's
Exchange Restaurant is still getting married.

Terri

    I presume that the two women were the only ones fined because they're
    the only ones (other than the Clarion management) who broke any
    laws.  The Clarion did receive a rather mild punishment from the
    Liquor Commission (whose rules they broke).
    
    Personally, I find the entire matter ludicrous and a show of bad taste
    and judgement on the part of the people organizing the party and the
    Clarion.  As for McGee, this incident did not do him any good, though
    I attribute his definition of "sex" more to ignorance than malice.
    After he made the widely quoted remark about it not being sex because
    it was two women, he then added something like "Well, I suppose you
    could call it sex."
    
    McGee is certainly on my "vote against" list.
    
    				Steve

> I presume that the two women were the only ones fined because they're
> the only ones (other than the Clarion management) who broke any
> laws.  The Clarion did receive a rather mild punishment from the
> Liquor Commission (whose rules they broke).
    
  Yesterday, as a comment from the news editor of the Telegraph defending
  their coverage of the story, a bit of an earlier story was quoted.  (I
  didn't read nor post this earlier story.)  I won't post the out-take
  but the original story was apparently a toned-down version of the ac-
  tual complaint filed in the case.  In this story, the audience was
  described as participating in a number of mild (but definitely sexual)
  ways with the two women.  I don't know what sex-acts-for-hire are sub-
  ject to prosecution under any existing "john-laws" in NH or Nashua.

  Magee's comment about it possibly not being sex as it was only
  between women does not reflect the events as they actually occurred
  and, based on the action described, I find it hard to believe he
  wasn't paying attention�.

                                   Atlant

� Please note that I *AM NOT IN ANY WAY* suggesting that he was a direct
  participant.

 I know Tom Magee and Chris Fokas. There is little doubt in my mind that the
incident would not have garnered the attention it has had these two people not
been involved. I am somewhat surprised that the story was covered by the
Globe, as it is a rather commonplace occurrance (especially in Mass.)

 Tom is not my idea of a particularly good state senator, but that decision is
largely a matter of our personality differences. I don't agree with his views
on abortion. He's not really a bad guy, though.

 Chris is an ok guy. I am not particularly surprised to see that he had this
type of stag party at the Clarion, as he has quite a bit of money. I am
somewhat surprised that the girls involved were actually performing sex acts
though. I would have expected that Chris would have a "classier?" party, but
I suspect that the best man had alot more to do with this than Chris did.

 In general, I'm not exactly sure what people expected Tom to do. If you were
invited to a friends bachelor (or bachelorette) party, and things began to get 
out of hand, would you leave? What if the police strolled in as you were
about to leave? What if people made a big deal out of the fact that you were
there, when you were trying to make a graceful exit? I do not know that
any of these things happened, but I think I would feel that things were
blown out of proportion.

 I can see how people can look at the situation and cry foul, but there are
some differences between stripping and abortion. It does appear that some
people with a strong position are looking for any reason to discredit people
on the other side. I think that a more effective (and intellectually sound)
method would be to fight the issue as an issue, not fight the people on
the other side. The issue needs to be examined on the merits of the issue
itself, not on the merits of the personalities involved.

 The Doctah

    re: .11
    
    .0 said that McGee won his election by being an outspoken advocate
    of the religious right, and is calling him an hypocrite for attending
    such a party.  also, i didn't see any quotes from McGee saying that
    he was on his way out, or was offended by what was going on.
    
    well, okay, he didn't win his election ONLY by joining the RR, but
    it was a major plank in his platform, yes?
    
    at least, that is how i have read this story.
    
    i also noticed the lack of punishment for whoever hired the
    entertainment.  seeing as it was a private party, i would guess
    that the hotel itself didn't hire the two women.  somebody had to
    have done it.