Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Ken,
    
    Thanks for the good advice. It's a shame it took such a gruesome
    example to bring the point across. When I was a kid I used to hitchhike
    every day. I'm lucky I'm alive.
    
    Thanks again,
    Kate
    

The average woman is so f*cking unable to defend herself it makes me sick.

She is dead and now there's some lunatic loose in Maine or New Hampshire.

Blood was found?  A struggle?  A physical confrontation between testosterone
and estrogen?  What a joke.  She hadn't a prayer.

Too bad she hadn't had a chance to read Harvard Law School's criminology 
*textbooks* which cite study after study showing that using a handgun for
self-defense is the most effective deterrent.  Properly trained, she
could have easily saved her life *and* potentially others, as could have
the *first* of the New Bedford murder victims.

WHEN WILL WOMEN LEARN?  No matter what miraculous changes take place in 
society, there will always be people who break the social contract and
commit violent acts against them.  

It is *YOUR* responsibility to be able to protect yourself in any situation,
(and, in my opinion, your family also).
	    						nancy b.

    I am trying to formulate a reply, but find I do not have the words.
    I did not work on Pam's shift, but worked at ASO nonetheless.  She
    started out with Dec and was well loved and respected by those who
    knew her.  There is no one here that does not regret what happened.
    
    I also think many people are more conscious, as I am, of violence.
    Until this time, I never personally knew anyone who knew of anyone
    who had met their death as she did.  Right now I am hoping that I am
    the only one from here who has seen the reply -.2
    
    Cathy 

    RE: .3  Clearification on License to Carry in Mass.
    
    In Mass you MUST have a License to Carry when ever you leave your
    home with a HANDGUN (for what ever reason).  You can transport any
    long gun (rifle or shotgun) but you must have a Firearms Identification
    card (F.I.D.), or a License to Carry.  You can possess a HANDGUN with
    a F.I.D. card, but you cannot transport it (no LTC = handgun stays
    home or maybe 1 year in jail).
                                
    
    Roger
                                                       

    re: .2
    
    Your tone makes me angry.  I realize that owning and carrying a
    handgun is an alternative, but you make it sound as if it is the
    ONLY one that works.  
    
    And as for your first line about women being so f*cking unable to
    defend themselves, if someone WANTS to kill you, they will probably
    succeed if they plan it well enough.  Perhaps you will take them
    with you, perhaps not.  I agree self-defense is a very vital issue,
    particularly to women, but men need to learn to defend themselves,
    too.  And guns are not the only way. 
    
    I am not anti-gun, or anti-knife, or anti-karate, or anti-anything.  I
    just think each person (man OR woman) should be permitted the freedom
    to DECIDE how they wish to defend themselves (or even whether or NOT
    they wish to take up some form or method of self defense). 
    
    This is, indeed, a sad turn of events.  And it reminds us all to
    be careful when dealing with strangers - a vital lesson we were
    often taught as children, and sometimes forget as adults.
    
    -Jody
    

    I have just received a request from a member of the conference for
    a certain amount of sensitivity.  Please speak on of self-defense
    and caution, but speak of yourselves, and from yourselves, and try
    not to conjecture about Pamela Webb's situation (post facts if they
    are confirmed, we are all concerned about this).  It was brought
    to my attention that, as written in the basenote, her boyfriend
    is a DECcie, and may read the file, and we should be sensitive to
    those close to Pamela who may be feeling some pain about this.
    
    Also, if it seems appropriate, there are other topics in this file
    to take the discussion to:
    
    237 is about self defense, following a NH rape case
    284 is about the model mugging course that teaches self-defense
    210 is about gun protection
    
    thanks,
    
    -Jody
    

    I had a similiar reaction to Nancy's when I heard about Pamela Webb. 
    My anger about it matches my anger for my friend's sister who was
    killed, and for Priscilla Gustafson and her two children who were
    killed.  It is not blaming the victim.  I wish that I could have
    prevented every senseless death and attack.  In my helplessness to save
    anyone I wish they could have saved themselves.  It seems natural to me
    to wish that all women would have the skills to defend themselves
    somehow.  My anger is at the person who did this murder and at my own
    inability to personally create a safe world for us all.  I am every bit
    as angry as Nancy at the horror of it all.
    
    Dondi
    

This is probably not the note to discuss self defense as pointed out, and
I would *NEVER* attempt to speak for Nancy or any other but I don't believe
it was meant to "blame" the victim. I believe the statement was made
as a venting of anger at the situation.
my sympathies to her friends and family
Amos    

    
    	A truck driver is being questioned about 13 abduction/murders
    on the NH, Vermont, Mass, borders. He is known to have been in jail
    during the time of a couple, but has been placed in the area of
    others during those events. Maine and NH State Police want to question
    him about Pamela. Police have some other leads and other suspects
    already. 
    
    Ken

    At the request of Pamela's friends and colleagues, this topic is
    closed.
    
    						=maggie