Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    or at least make it appeal to the men. 
    Maybe we should put cami you know green
    and black stuff painted all over it.
    
    Just an idea
    
    

    Camouflage Condom
    They could call it "Rambone" (sorry...sorry...I know...I'm awful)
    They could advertise it... "They'll never see you coming..."
    	(oh boy, I'm gonna get it now - )
    
    Actually, if women ran things, I imagine it would be easier to find
    some things in the store.  And the stores would be set up more
    logically.  "Marshmallow" is a "cooking need", not a "candy".  NEVER
    put the candy across from the DIET SECTION.  Canned mushrooms are
    a VEGETABLE, and don't belong with pickles.  You get the idea.
    I do like the candy-free checkout aisles though - on those days
    when you Can't Stand Temptation.
    
    -Jody
     

    
    		re: .0 ('Ren Foster)
                -------------------
    
    
    		*padded* condoms       ????
    
    

    re: .0
    
    Uh -- I'm almost afraid to ask.... padding *where*??
    
    					andrew

    Re: .4
    
    >Uh -- I'm almost afraid to ask.... padding *where*??
    
    Inside, most likely....

You can buy green (Mambo) and black (Black Jack) condoms in any supermarket
in Sweden.

Martin.

    re. the camo condoms - you mean camo hat, jacket, pants and
    hankie aren't *enough* ? And besides, there are some things
    one must forego while deer hunting :-)

    Cammo condoms?
    
    They have them.
    
    Steve

    Hmmmm.  If women were "running things", mirrors would always be
    *behind* the toilets.
    
    Carol
    

    re .9
    
    Amen to that one. I'll never forget the DISMAY I felt when I sat
    down and saw myself in a full length mirror. There was a towel bar   
    across it, but no towel to block the view.
    
    

    You folks got mirrors in the *stalls*?  Ours are always over the
    sinks...oh, except for that convex magnifier over the urinals, of 
    course ;-).
    
    DougO

    No, its typically in someone's private home bathroom. Where the
    layout just happens to include a mirror that faces the person seated
    on the toilet.

    If women were running things...
    
    would all the men be wearing skirts ? Shaving their legs ?

    (Did anyone catch the episode of the new Star Trek where they
    visited such a planet ? I wonder how that outfit would look
    on me ? )

    IF WOMEN RULED THE WORLD:
    		
    		* Pantyhose would never run. (Except maybe on those hot 
                  and humid days when only the men had to wear them!
                  
    ^   ^
    0   0
      >
    \__/       Kate
    

    I would just like to see one man, one time, have one baby.  Or for
    that matter - have one gyn. examination.  Then the two sexes could
    communicate reeeeeaaaaal well.  Perfect understanding!!!!
    
    Sue
    

    we'd put a lot more research into preventing PMS and cramps.  We'd
    put a lot more research into contraceptives.  We'd have chocolate
    ice cream that had less than 25 calories a pint.  We'd have clothes
    washer/dryers that folded, too.  We'd have cars designed that put
    on the blinkers when you were changing lanes, whether the driver
    wanted 'em to or not.  We'd have government-sponsored health clubs
    where we could all get healthy together (EVERYBODY, not just women).
    We'd have government-sponsored panel-certified-and-regulated daycare.
    We'd have daily naps after lunch.  
    
    -Jody
    

    AND...!!!
    
    By law, all places of public function (i.e. theatres, restaurants,
    clubs) would have ladies' rooms with AT LEAST three times as many
    stalls as the mens'...
    
    This isn't discriminatory...it's practical logistics...
    
    DeBanne, who_is_only_a_temp
    

Re: .17

    Come to  a  regatta.  The last time I sailed in Block Island week,
    there  were  about 7 times as many men as women, and equal numbers
    of toilets for each sex. There were always a few women outside the
    men's  room  (which had long lines) gloating. (There were no lines
    for the women's room.)

--David

    and why do you think they were gloating? ;-)
    
    DeBanne
    

All cars would have air bags (and maybe side air bags too?) instead of those
over-the-shoulder-between-the-breasts-if-you're-lucky seat belts.

Men could proudly wear dresses, and baby boys could proudly wear pink.
	Mez

Re: .17

You may get your wish sooner than you think.  Some localities already
have building regulations that specify that there should be more toilets
for women than men in new construction, and others are considering such
regulations.  It won't change overnight (what will?), but it is happening.

			Steve

    re: .16
    
    "We'd have daily naps after lunch."
    
    Oh no!  No way!  I'm not gonna take a nap. . .
    
    . . .'til I get some Graham crackers and carton of milk. . .and
    I want my blanket, too. . .
    
    Steve (whadaya mean I'm hot and cranky?)

Well :-), all jobs that are traditionally done by women, such as secretary,
    nurses's aid, cashier, waitress, bank teller, receptionist, social
    workers, child care workers, librarians, would all make as much
    money as jobs that are traditionally done by men, such as plumber,
    electrician, mechanic, carpenter, truck driver, dock worker.  I
    think that would be so nice :-).
    
    Lorna
    

    re .23 Lorna, if I could make as much money as a cashier
    or a receptionist, I wouldn't bother being a dock worker.
    
    I mean, the aching back, the injuries, driving forklifts,
    excersizing to stay in shape for work, who needs it ?
    
    Dana
    
    PS I work with women truck drivers, dock workers and warehousers.

    PPS if women ran things, they'd *stop* doing all those
        'traditionally done by women' jobs. On the other hand,
        if they stopped, they might end up running things ! 

    Re .24, Dana, you missed the point!  The point is I want to be paid
    just as much for doing what I was brought up to do naturally, as
    men are paid to do what they were brought up to do naturally!! 
    I don't want to have to turn into a man to get the money.  I want
    to stay *me* and get the money.  
    
    I, personally, think you'd make a very nice receptionist, Dana.
     You're friendly, outgoing, personable.  Too bad they wouldn't pay
    you what you're worth for that job!  :-)
    
    However, I've seen a few dock workers who would make terrible
    receptionists because they're too uncouth, surly, and inarticulate
    to deal with Digital's customers.  (But, they still make more money
    than receptionists.)  
    
    *I* think it's because our society has
    traditionally *valued* men (any men) more than women (any women).
     And, the only way society wants to value women now is if they either
    turn into *men* or if they just look cute and stop complaining.

    Lorna
    

    Not to get off the subject, of re: -.2, but I thought dock workers
    would be MUCH more highly paid than receptionists just because it
    is difficult work.  If they let me loose with a forklift, they would
    trebble my salary so entice me to leave before I bankrumpted the
    workman's compensation fund. There are those of us (me) that would be
    a menace in many physical jobs - no eye hand coordination to speak of,
    and others who would have trouble with programming (my job).  And yes
    I do speak from envy.
    
    Cathy  

    I must disagree - the dock-workers and truck drivers (and
    mechanics and carpenters) I know who happen to be female
    have emphatically *not* been 'turned into men'. They've
    rejected what you accept - the idea that some jobs are 'men
    only'. They rejected their 'upbringing', the stereotypes,
    the socially defined roles. And they're *still* women.
    
    ( Two asides : one, have you ever seen Laura, who drives 
    truck for one of DEC fleet's contractors ? male response - wow!
    Two, perhaps the prettiest woman I know is a carpenter,
    plumber, fixit, Jill-of-all-trades.)

    Dana

    Re .26, .27, well, I just seem to be unable to effectively communicate
    my thoughts today!!!  I wish I could think up the right words to
    make everyone in the world understand what I *really* mean.....SIGH
    
    Oh, well.  Dana, I was using the phrase "turn into a man" lightly
    and it was not meant in a derogatory way.  What I was trying to
    say is that *I* as an individual do not want to do heavy physical
    labor, but I feel that the type of work I do, do, is just as valuable
    in it's own way to industry, business and society, as is the work
    done by a forklift driver.  This company needs people to drive
    forklifts and people to answer phones.  Neither job requires a college
    degree.  While it might be more difficult for me to drive a forklift
    than to answer a phone, type, set up a meeting or distribute mail,
    I firmly believe there are forklift drivers who would find it just
    as difficult to do my job as I would find it difficult to do theirs.
     Yet they are valued more, and most of them are men.  Secretaries
    and receptionists are valued less and most of us are women.  So,
    I guess we just disagree.
    
    Re .Cathy, I believe that most jobs women have traditionally held
    are lower paying than most jobs traditionally held by men.  I don't
    think this is fair, and I don't think that the answer is for women
    to try to do the men's jobs unless they want to.  I also think that
    there are some jobs that are just plain underpaid in industry, and
    that most of those are done by women, so I don't think that forklift
    drivers or dock workers deserve any more money than I do.  Their
    job might be hard for me but my job might be hard for them.  (It's
    not easy to stay pleasant, smiling, attractive looking and articulate
    while most people around you are treating you like a half-witted
    piece of shit, and frankly I'm sick of it, and if I - a woman -
    were indeed running the world it would be different.) :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    Pardon me for heading back to the Porcelain Convenience route, but
    this his been bothering me for a while (not much on my mind, I
    guess...)
    
    
    IF women ran the world, there would be no such thing as a "women's
    urinal". The thing is totally useless - it *had* to have been
    invented by a man! And it takes up a perfectly good bathroom
    stall, which I've NEVER seen anyone use in 5 years in the same
    building!
    
    (And it's damn cold if you miscalculate!)
    
    There, I feel better - I've wanted to complain about these things
    for *years*! :-)
    
    --DE
    

            
re: .29:    
    IF women ran the world, there would be no such thing as a "women's
    urinal". The thing is totally useless - it *had* to have been
    invented by a man! And it takes up a perfectly good bathroom
    stall, which I've NEVER seen anyone use in 5 years in the same
    building!
    
What?  Never heard of a "woman's urinal"!  Could you explain?  Where
did you see these things?  What a bizarre concept.

Incidentally, a far as more female restrooms being a good thing, I 
agree.  What I don't understand is why the lines are always so long.
When I am with a male, and we both go in to the restrooms, I almost
*always* come out at the same time or before my companion.  Do other
women take longer, or are there just more of us using the restrooms?
(Or maybe I just hang out with really *sloooow* men.  That wouldn't
surprise me... :-)

D!

    re .29, .30, do you mean the urinals in the women's rooms at MRO1?
     I always assumed that they used to be men's rooms?  It is sort
    of silly not to take them out and put in *real* toilets, tho.

    Re .30, I think some women do seem to take forever in public restrooms.
     Sunday I was waiting in line at a women's room at a beach in Rye,
    N.H., and two women were in those stalls *so* long, I wondered if
    they either had diarrhea, or if they were reading and had gotten
    caught up in an especially good book, an especially *long* good book.
    
    If women ran the world I would definitely install more women's rooms
    at the Centrum and Worcester, Mass., and at Great Woods, in Mansfield,
    Mass.  One of the low points of a rock concert is realizing you
    have to go to the women's room, and knowing you'll be in line forever
    missing the show!!
    
    Lorna
    

And all clothes would be comfy, easy to move in, and have lots of big pockets.
And durable. And perennial (in terms of fashion).

And grass would stop growing so damn fast.
	Mez

    Clothing manufacturer's would realize that women come with different
    size arms, legs, and waist proportions -- just like men do.  
    
    We'd be able to walk into any store and know that a size 10 is a 10 and
    the same as a 10 anywhere else with any other label on it, and there
    would be size markings for sleeve length and leg length -- and a 
    good selection of different lengths.  Manufacturers would not assume
    that any woman over 5'7" wears at least a size 12, nor that any woman
    under 5'4" wears at most a size 8.
    
    There would be shoes that make your legs look good AND are comfortable
    to stand in for more than 3 minutes AND allow you to walk with a normal
    stride length (no more mincing!).
    
    Beth

    ....and everyone's favorite goodies would be available in
    no-calorie/no-fat versions!
    
    We'd invent pills to make you tan, have curly/straight hair, maintain 
    the weight you want, fingernail length AND color, hair color, etc.
    
    There would be NO PMS!
    
    Nylons wouldn't run.
    
    Jane

    re - .21
    
    Too true.  New York calls it the "Potty Parity" law.  
    
    re - .30
    
    You should check out the bathroom at the only existing drive-in here in
    Colorado Springs.  Definitely a "woman's urinal" and definitely
    unappreciated.
    
    :-)
    
    Carol
    

    back to the reply about clothing... if I was running things,
    I'd see to it that all shirts/blouses with buttons down the
    front would have buttons in the *correct* place. Are there
    any busty women out there who know what I'm talking about?
    Does the term 'gap-itis' mean anything to anyone? :-)
    

    G'Day Folks,
    
    	Without wanting too many gory details, nobody has yet told us what
    the ladies urinal is.  I find it hard to imagine a woman using anything
    but a normal toilet.
    
    	All this reminds me of last summer when I was at the Sydney Cricket
    Ground for a day/night cricket match.  As most of you know we aussies
    don't mind a beer or two (especially at the cricket) so there is always
    long lines at the gents (and to a lesser extent the ladies).  On this
    particular night about halfway through the game something happened to
    one of the ladies toilet blocks rederring them unusable.  What did the
    women do??  They used then mens' of course but they didn't even bother
    waiting in line they just barged in.  There was a few surprised faces
    on the men that were already in there but it all seemed to work out in
    the end.
    
    	Oh yes, we did beat the west indies that night!  C'mon Aussie
    C'mon!
    
    David.
    
    

    re .33/.36
    Will never happen .... far too practical.  Whoever the designers are,
    they do not have to wear what  they design or else things WOULD be
    different no matter WHO ran the world ....

    re: .37
    
    To where?
    
    Steve

    I *hear* where you're coming from on the button-down shirts.  I
    should buy stock in a safety-pin company.  Sheesh.
    
    In addition to washer/dryers that fold - add to that one that can
    iron.  And skirts that don't billow up at the hint of a breeze (it
    may be okay for Marilyn, but not for me....).   "Lingerie" that 
    doesn't wrinkle if it's not on a hanger every minute.    
    
    Fridges that signal you when something's "expired" on the lower shelves
    ;). 
    
    -Jody

re: .36

Yes, buttons would be in the right place!  *Also* for busty women - there would
be bras that were supportive, comfortable, cool - and available in all the
colors and lacy styles that only the smaller women seem to be able to get
now!

If women were running things, toilet seats would go down automatically
after use by men!  (At best...or at least make it a felony to leave the
damn thing up!)

D!

    re - .38
    
    A ladies urinal looks like a cross between a normal toilet and a mens
    urinal, with no seat.  It's also higher than a normal toilet.  I was
    never potty trained on one :-) so I guess we women are supposed to 
    just stand there and "do our thing".  Unfortunately, it's wide enough
    so it's unconfortable to stradle and too thin (and cold) to sit on.
    And there's *no way* a little girl can use it without help.
    
    Carol
    

    re: women's urinals - I agree, definitely not invented by a woman!  I
    think they are more popular in Europe for some reason (some people fear
    disease if they actually sit on a toilet seat, anyhow).
    
    Have you ever tried to use a Chinese ladies' urinal???  Rather than
    being up too high, they are mounted in the floor - never did figure out
    how to manage gracefully without taking off most of my clothes - which
    may explain the long lines for these dubious "conveniences" (but I was
    only on holiday there for a week; there was probably a catch to it that
    I didn't figure out).
    
    I always figured that the long lines at concerts and things to get into
    the "facilities" were due to the time it takes to struggle out of and
    into hose, girdles, etc. (compared to how easy men have it).  Someone
    computed that for an equal number of women and men there should be
    one-third more stalls for the women's room than the men had, to
    equalize the lines.
                                          

    re .29   women's urinals....
    
    I never knew what those DAMN things were!  I've been here at MR01
    for close to 7 years now and never knew!  I've never used one either.
    I thought it was some sort of handicap item; I'm so naive sometimes!!
    
    If I had my way, men would have to either get pregnant or at least
    wear the 'empathy belly' that I saw on Donahue a few weeks back for
    the entire 9 months!
    
    Anna
    

    Re .45, I'm very naive as well.  I always thought that at one time
    the women's rooms with urinals at MR01 were men's room's!  (Before
    DEC bought the building or something.  In fact, I think somebody
    actually *told* me that a long time ago - that the company that
    owned MRO1 first had almost all men working for them and had hardly
    any women's rooms!  Do you mean to tell me after all this time that
    story is not TRUE? !)  :-)
    
    Geez, I'll be 40 in two months and I find out there's such a thing
    as women's urinals.  What else don't I know?
    
    Lorna
    

    If Woman were running things I probably have
    a harder time finding a Mens clothings store (-:
    
    The talk about "jobs traditionaly done by men" and
    "traditonaly done by woman" I feel is bordering on sexist
    which note 1.0 asks to avoid.
    
    But my .02 on the topic is that if a Woman can solve the
    social ills of this Country, provide better entry level paying
    jobs than those already discussed, and make the equal pay issue
    go away...then she ought to RUN THINGS
    until then ...
    
    --Christopher

    As long as we're on the subject of urinals:
    
    Has anyone ever seen a Turkish toilet?  While in Europe I occasionally
    came across these.  They look like a big shower stall with two raised
    "footrests" in the middle, and a drain hole near the back of the
    floor.  You step onto the footrests, squat and do your business.
    The pressure of standing on the footrests activates a flushing
    mechanism that whooshes down ( and scares the sh*t outa you!) thereby
    flushing the wastes away.  Well, try doing this with jeans on without
    getting them wet!  No wonder most European women wear dresses with
    no stockings!.
    

    	Well, I'd never heard of women's urinals until this topic, either
    	(although I have a very strong suspicion that the people who
    	invented/installed these devices in women's rooms got a huge
    	kickback from the Women's Shoe manufacturing business for doing
    	it.)
    
    	From the way these women's urinals have been described (and without
    	submitting an illustration to prove my point,) it sounds to me like
    	these devices would tend to facilitate the diversion of urine into
    	one's footwear.  :-)
    

There would be Top-free Equality (I love that concept). Then Mom's could nurse
whenever they felt like it, pretty much, if they wanted to.
	Mez

    Re. urinals -
    
    my grandmother used to use those, I remember.  They were a big help,
    apparently, for women who used to wear those girdles that had no
    crotch panel, but were constructed like a tube.  Developing the
    proper coordination must have been quite an art, but you probably
    didn't have to worry about germs, either.
    
    For people who can't picture them, haven't you ever walked into
    a stall and seen something that looks like an oblong toilet with
    no seat?
    
    

    one more on urinals:
    
    regarding the turkish toilets. when I lived there in turkey, they
    didn't have flushing, they had a faucet you turned on to run water down
    or a bucket placed nearby.  they consisted of a hole in the ground with
    two planks on either side(in the gas stations) or nicer marble
    constructs with the same principles.  anyway once upon a time, 
    our family was taking a trip through the back country where there were
    no regular toilets.  one gas station we stopped at my poor mom had to
    go, well at the time(60's) they didnt' use toilet paper and the
    bathrooms were literally "bathrooms", you had to take a bath
    afterwards.... anyway, mommy went, used the toilet paper she had
    brought with her, and a gust of wind came up through the pipes, blew 
    the paper back up, she caught it, added more paper, tossed it down
    again, again a wind blast, pretty soon, mom had almost the whole roll
    of tp in one giant ball and she was slam dunking the stupid thing 
    and she and I were dying laughing. after washing up and getting back 
    to the car my dad couldn't figure out how we had used to whole roll 
    nor why it had taken so darn long.....
    ah, the joys of travel....
    
    vivian

    When I was small my parents had a Shell gas credit card so all 
    our automotive needs were done there.  On long trips this always
    subjected me to the Shell ladies room which usually included a
    regular toilet that didn't work and a 'ladies' urinal.  I always
    thought the urinal was used for moms with small boys in tow.
    
    Anyhow, I got so fed up with the Shell restrooms that I vowed as
    an adult, I would *never* do business with them, and I haven't.
    
    Jodi-
    

    
    Is this ladies' urinal we're talking about
    the same as a 'bidet'?
    
    D
    

    no, not even close.
    
    

    
    I love the discussion on the women's urinals.  I work in MRO1 too,
    and it took quite awhile for me to remember that the first stall
    is the one I won't use.  I've seen other women using them but I
    think it's impossible if you're wearing slacks of some sort.
    
    Regarding 'gap-itis'... if you can find one, a shirt (or whatever)
    with the buttonholes installed horizontally seems to solve the problem.
    I've only had one or two blouses with buttonholes like this.
    
    CQ

    >The talk about "jobs traditionaly done by men" and
    >"traditonaly done by woman" I feel is bordering on sexist
    >which note 1.0 asks to avoid.
    
    It's the concept that is sexist - not the discussion of the concept.
    
    >... if a Woman can solve the social ills of this Country, provide 
    >better entry level paying jobs than those already discussed, and make 
    >the equal pay issue go away...then she ought to RUN THINGS
    >until then ...
    
    This sounds like you're saying women must be BETTER than men to be 
    considered equally qualified, (or to be allowed or whatever), to run 
    things.   Men have not as yet been able to provide the above and they
    have the inside track to do so!  Doesn't that make them worse for
    having the opportunity and NOT using it to the advantage of society?
    Simply because these ills still exist, we should take a look at who
    IS running things and if THEY aren't doing such a hot job, we have
    everything to gain and nothing to loose by trying something, or some-
    one, else.  That women aren't proven superheroes is a lame excuse for
    rendering them "unqualified" to try.  That those already running things
    HAVE proven that they are NOT is much more telling, don't you think?