| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 705.1 | KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH | USEM::GALVANI | | Wed Jul 19 1989 14:58 | 27 |
| Lise,
I can understand how you feel. Although I lost my daugther when
she was 2 1/2 months old, the feeling of loss must be similar.
There is a hole in my heart that will always be there. I don't
think you will ever really get over the feeling. I have one four
year old and Kayla would have been 9 months old. Even when/if I
have another it will never replace her. Even though yours was
unborn, the feeling of what it would have been like are still
very real. I know for myself the worry of getting pregnant and
the possiblity of losing another (unborn or not) is my greatest
fear.
There are many support groups for this type of grief. After the
death of Kayla, I was directed to many. If you would like this
type of help, call your local hospital and they can refer you.
Also, support from your spouse is very important. Since they do
not experience the actual loss (not part of his body) I think they
make too little of how a woman is to feel or deal with it. Maybe
he could attend a support group with you to view how grief is coped
with by various people. I still and probably always will have
nightmares of that morning, but when I do my husband is very supportive
and comforting.
I wish you all the luck in having a healthy happy child in the future.
|
| 705.2 | I'm sorry | CHEFS::BAGGOTTC | | Wed Jul 19 1989 15:03 | 67 |
| Hi Lise,
I don't know whether I can be of any positive help, but I feel for
you and would like to help and support you.
My first baby was stillborn 7 years ago this spring. I know what
you mean about "mental shakes" - and there's the black hole/ache
in the bottom of the stomach as well. It was there for a long, long
time, and the feelings can still, even now, come up and be with
me.
The stillbirth was totally unexpected - I was about 2 weeks over
my due date, seemed to go into labour naturally, but something then
went wrong over the last few hours. My baby was probably dead before
I got into the delivery room, but I didn't consciously realize anything
was seriously wrong until after the forceps delivery when they whisked
him away, and we were there waiting to hear a cry, and then starting
to dread hearing a cry......because of the implications of oxygen
starvation and brain damage.
They weren't able to find any reason for the stillbirth at the autoposy
they performed. He was a perfect baby, there was nothing wrong....but
the complete journey of the baby towards independent life was never quite
finished.
I don't know whether it would have been easier to cope with if there
had been a "reason" - probably not, because then there could have been
the temptation to apportion blame. However, it takes a lot of
adjustment to come to terms with life and living when "fate" or
mortality comes and kicks you in the stomach and overturns the expected
order of things.
Grief is a very lonely emotion. And there is so much tied in with
conception and childbirth and the expectations of having and rearing of
children. There's grief for the child you will never see, for the
family life that you might not now experience. There's all the readjustment,
and rethinking you have to do. It is all very painful, and very
draining and wearing.
Your own physical body can take a long time to return to "normality"
after even a trouble-free pregnancy and delivery.
I very clearly understand what you mean when you say that you feel
"just not me", Lise, as I felt the same. And I never did return
to the old me, I became a new me. I was fortunate that I went on
to have more children - I now have a 6 year old son and a 5 year
old daughter. But I still grieve my first-born, and I still grieve
the loss of my own "innocence" and the pain I went through.
But mostly I'm proud of myself, and my survival, and of my strength. I
tend to be hard on myself, and want to control my life and my destiny.
On the surface I probably looked as though I "coped" very well, but the
true healing of the raw wounds inside only started to happen when I
stopped "coping" and allowed myself to hurt, while at the same time
getting on with living my life, and making the decisions necessary
to do that.
Give yourself time, be gentle to yourself, look after yourself. Talk
about it, share your feelings and your emotions with people who support
you and who you can trust.
Hope this helps,
Clare
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| 705.3 | | WOODRO::KEITH | Real men double clutch | Thu Jul 20 1989 08:16 | 24 |
| My wife and I lost twin girls in 1974. The first one was born with
the cord around her neck. While they worked on her, the placenta
detatched on the second. It was very rough on both my wife and
myself. We were relatively young, I was 25, she 23. We were somewhat
poor at that time. I was not in the delivery room at the time (this
was before lamaze (sp) was big). My wife went through the birth
without me. The doctor had asked if she thought I wanted to be there
and she said no. To this day, I am so glad she made that decision.
I regret that she had to go through it alone, but even she agrees
that she recovered better than I did, so me being there...
It took us a number of years to almost fully recover. You never
really do. Things will remind you of your loss. Mine were born 2
days before my birthday. So each year, I am reminded.
Our second attempt ended in a miscarriage. This one was rougher
on my wife than me. Maybe I was still recovering from the twins.
Finally three years later, we had our first son. I was there this
time and wondered the whole time it it would be a success.
Whenever I meet someone who is pregnant, I relate this story.
My wife and I were not prepared for something to go wrong. At least
if you consider it a possibility, if it occured, maybe it would
not be so devastating.
I cannot imagine losing a baby to SID or as a toddler or child.
Steve_who_wonders_what_Joy_and_Jessica_would_be_like_today
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| 705.4 | | RAINBO::LARUE | An easy day for a lady. | Thu Jul 20 1989 09:29 | 14 |
| Steve,
I really feel for your losses. I have never lost a child but came
very close when my son drank a poison at two. At the risk of seeming
unfeeling, I would be very upset if I were pregnant and I were told the
sad stories I've heard here. During both my pregnancies I had a
constant underlying worry that the babies might not be all right. If I
heard what you went through, it wouldn't have prepared me for the worst
at all. Anticipation can do terrible things to one's emotions. This
is purely my opinion but I have watched what worry does to the friends
that have lost children. I don't think it's kind to dwell on sadness.
Am I reading your note incorrectly? I don't wish to do so.
Dondi
|
| 705.5 | Find help *now* | PENPAL::JAMES | | Thu Jul 20 1989 09:40 | 18 |
| Hi Lise. I lost my son at a much later age; Augie was 22 when he
died last year. Many of the things that Clare mentioned really came
home - "loss of innocence", "loss of control of my destiny", a strong
feeling of being cheated, robbed somehow of the joy of having
successfully raised a child. I have a lot of anger and blame boiling
inside me yet, and it takes a lot of time to work through it. I
miss him and think about him every day.
One organization that has helped me is Compassionate Friends. It
is an association of parents who have lost a child. I don't know
where you are, but the meetings I attend are in Concord, Mass. See
the EAP. There are resources out there to help you cope. Don't do
it alone.
Best of luck to you and may you find peace,
Estelle
|
| 705.6 | Please get some help | DEMON::CROCITTO | PhantomoftheOPERAtingSystem | Thu Jul 20 1989 10:49 | 37 |
| Lise--
I am so sorry for what you went through, and are still experiencing.
I hope that you can find ways to work through it and find peace with
it.
When I met my husband 3 years ago, he had lost his 2 1/2 year old
son, Bobby, a year before. He had drowned accidentally just 2 weeks after
his sister was born. A month after that, my husband's first wife took
the new baby, and left him. I met him a year later, and we have tried
to work through the feelings ever since.
Although this was not *my* son, and I never knew him, I have dealt with
what happens afterwards.
At first, he did all the talking, and I did all the crying. (I have no
idea what loneliness, fear, hurt, and loss he went through all alone)
We visited the gravesite often, and I grieved for both of them.
Gradually we got to a place where we talk about him quite normally, and
we still visit the cemetary. His daughter, Lisa, is now four, and
knows about Bobby, and why she can't see him. There is no sorrow or
fear on her part, but curiosity, and we try to answer all her
questions. We keep his pictures up, and I feel that he is with us,
no matter what.
I guess what I am saying is, however you do it, get help working it
through. Talk, weep, get angry, and talk some more. Getting your
feelings out is really important. That way you can come to terms
with what has happened, and accept it as part of your life, and go
on. You don't forget about it, and I don't think we *want* to
forget; just have the pain recede from the memory.
Please keep us posted, and please remember that you are not alone.
Take care,
Jane
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| 705.7 | Pointers | LYRIC::BOBBITT | invictus maneo | Thu Jul 20 1989 11:12 | 14 |
| I have not found any topics specifically on death of the unborn,
but I know that Eda Le Shan has written many books on dealing with
death, and one of those may help. Also, the following topics may
have useful information:
In this file: topic 374 - Dealing with Death
Parenting Notesfile: Topic 139 - The Unspeakable - Children & Death
Human_Relations Notesfile: Topic 323 - Deal with Death
Topic 247 - Necessary Losses
-Jody
|
| 705.8 | Thanxs and still trying! | ANT::MPCMAIL | | Thu Jul 20 1989 11:14 | 12 |
| To all that have replied, Thank-you. I am *trying* to verbalize
my shakes, my tremors, my feeling of mental exhaustion, I am still
physically shaking at the end of the day and still not sleeping
too well at night. I am having trouble concreating for any lenght
of time. Sometimes I wonder if I am making it or not.
I try to put onthe happy smile even through the tears. But the
facade isn' working too well. I feel like I have reached that knot
in the rope and I am hanging ono it for dear life.
I am also working through the grief of two other friends that hve
died since the baby's death. God help me please.
Lise
|
| 705.9 | | TOPDOC::SLOANE | Opportunity knocks softly | Thu Jul 20 1989 12:01 | 16 |
| We lost a 5-year old son 12 years ago.
You cannot rush the grieving process. Don't try to fight your feelings
or tough it out. Take it a moment at a time. Eventually you'll be able
to take it a few hours at a time. Don't worry about a facade or what
other people think of you or their expectations. Your first
responsibility is to yourself.
Rely on your special friends. Get therapy if you want. Maintain
closeness with your husband, and don't let this tragedy cause a
rift in your relationship.
My thoughts are with you during this most difficult time, and tears
are welling up.
Bruce
|
| 705.10 | I am so sorry for your loss | HICKRY::HOPKINS | Peace, Love, & Understanding | Thu Jul 20 1989 12:11 | 22 |
| You need your time to grieve. What you are experiencing is normal.
My daughter died at the age of 6 1/2 from a genetic disease (cystic
fibrosis) and for the first year and a half to two years I didn't
think I'd make it either. I got angry when people said "you have
to get right back to work, you have to go on with your life, you
have to.....". Who were they to tell me what I HAD to do. You
will have sleepless night and trouble concentrating and all of the
things you are feeling. My biggest problem was that the people
around me made me feel crazy. What you are feeling is NATURAL.
Don't let others pressure you into hiding what you're feeling.
I didn't believe when people told me it does get better. Actually,
even now, 4 years later, I still don't think it's 'better', it's just
easier to get on with life. I miss my daughter so much I can't
put it into words. I'm just more sure than I was in the beginning
that she'll really always be with me spiritually if not physically.
Compassionate Friends is a wonderful group. Going to a few meeting
may help. I think that they have groups similar to Compasionate
Friends for people who have experienced losses such as yours. Your
local hospital may know of some bereavment group in your area. If
I can help by lending an ear, feel free to send me mail.
|
| 705.11 | I Can Relate to That .... | MAMTS1::TTAYLOR | | Thu Jul 20 1989 14:09 | 43 |
| Lise --
My heart goes out to you, for I was in a similar situation.
When I was 21, I suffered the loss of very much wanted twins. My
SO and I had been together for three years and it was very tough
on him, as well. I miscarried the first twin at 4 months, the
other twin was ectopic and they didn't find her until I was close
to 6 months along. It was a very life-threatening situation,
which has rendered me incapable of bearing children normally.
You must talk to him and tell him your feelings. My SO was the
"stong, silent type", he cried once the whole time I was going
through the ordeal. But I tried t remain strong and just couldn't.
When I saw children (not babies, any age) I would freak out. When
I heard a baby cry, I would cry for hours and hours. I went to
professional counseling with my SO and alone as well. I don't
think it helped either of us, we weren't ready to let go of our
feelings and grief. One day we went to a friend's wedding and
after the reception, we talked for hours. I finally told him
exactly how I felt and he finally opened up to me, as well. It
helped enormously. With his support, I found the strength to
deal with my pain. But it took lots of honesty and lots of
opening up on both our parts. It affects the woman much more
than the man, they can't experience the changes a woman goes through
during pregnancy, and therefore, can't relate to the loss of
something "not tangibly there".
It's been almost 7 years since I lost my babies, and I will never
forget, but the pain has diminished and all I can say to myself
to assauge the guilt and pain is "it wasn't meant to be".
BTW - My SO and I are no longer together, it was this incident that
finally split us up, after 5 years of dating and 8 of friendship,
now we are the best of friends and have been for almost 10 years.
I left him because the guilt was too much for me to deal with.
Good luck and take care.
Tammi
|
| 705.12 | another perspective | CASPRO::WASKOM | | Thu Jul 20 1989 17:51 | 21 |
| to .0
Please, please go talk to either someone from EAP or your 'spiritual
adviser'. What you are experiencing is common, but you seem to
need more help than we in the file here can realistically provide.
Having read the other portions of your story in the adoption note,
I sense that you are mourning not just the loss of *this particular*
pregnancy, but also that of the children you had hoped/expected
to have and now probably will not. It is very difficult for us,
as women, to feel that we are failing at being able to have children.
In many ways, our self-image is often dependent on being able to
accomplish this basic female function. Reading in both this file
and the Parenting file about other women who are having trouble
conceiving may be helpful. Possibly their support groups would
be more helpful to you than those for folks who have lost a baby
or young child.
May you find the peace of mind which you are seeking.
Alison
|
| 705.13 | Greive | STORK::ROBERTS | | Thu Jul 20 1989 22:31 | 13 |
|
I also had a miscarrage at 6 weeks. before the mis. I lost
a little boy, my water broke at 20 weeks, I was able to hold my
very tiny fully formed baby and say good bye. So far this has
been the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with.
Reading this note brings back all those feelings again, I am
crying my eyes out,for me and for all.
It really helps to talk about it. I found that friends did
not want to bring it up, so I did and then they would listen.
I will never forget the dates I lost my babys, and I don't
want to.
Cathy
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| 705.14 | I know too | WOODRO::KEITH | Real men double clutch | Fri Jul 21 1989 08:34 | 25 |
| RE .13
Having written a reply here and read even more devastating stories
here, I too am reminded of things that have not affected me this
way in years.
I have thought of a lot of things that changed because of that event.
Things that could have been. Things that changed for the worse and
for the better. Things that have rippled all the way up to today.
I is very hard because people do not know what to say to you. When
I went into the bank where my wife worked ( I needed a small loan
to bury my daughters), her boss asked if she had gone yet. I tried
to smile, then asked her to step into a closed room, told her, took
care of all the loan paper work, then asked her to let me leave
before telling anyone else. She was visably shaken when I told her.
It was the same where I worked. People come up and ask how the baby
is doing, then you tell them as nicely as possible......
As my father said (paraphrasing a US president I think) at the burial;
'They will be you little children forever'
Steve
|
| 705.15 | let me explain myself | ANT::MPCMAIL | | Fri Jul 21 1989 09:46 | 29 |
|
RE.14
That is beautiful and excatly for some reason what I needed to
hear, today.
and for those that said get help. I am the type of person that has never
found it comfortable to cry and release emotions on a strangers shoulders.
Mu family and my boyfriend (baby's dad) have chosen to not want
to talk about it and tell me that I SHOULD?? be over it by now,
it SHOULDN"T be affecting me like this?? Well I don't mention
it to them, but where I live with my boyfriend who doesn't understand
why I feel how I feel or what I feel, I don't discuss it with him,
instead I have found one or two close friends that understand my
need to talk at moments and at times I still do cry.
also I have realized that since that baby's death there have been
not 2 but 3 more close friends that have died that I have knowen.
so while I am still on mourning for the baby I am trying to work
through 3 other deaths. If I seem like I am mourning, more than
one loss I am. I am trying to seperate one loss from the other,
I'm sorry if I have strayed off the base note but maybe this will
help other noters before they say speak to your family or boyfriend,
or anything else. I do not have anymore support from them. I have
used my alloted time to mourn.
Lise
|
| 705.16 | | RAINBO::LARUE | An easy day for a lady. | Fri Jul 21 1989 10:26 | 14 |
| Lise,
You have all the time you need to mourn, more than what's allotted
if you want it. It can take forever. My first husband's grandmother
lost two of her children. She mourned every time she came to see us
because my Seth looked just like one of her boys who died. It broke my
heart because I too couldn't find the words to offer comfort. It's
been said that the greatest tragedy is that a child dies before her
parents. The bond between a mother and father and a child is so deep
and complex, the healing of the breaking of that bond is equally deep
and complex. It's so hard to know what to say. I don't want to add to
your sadness by bringing it up. Like so many others I really wish you
peace and coming to terms however you need to do it.
Dondi
|
| 705.17 | August issue of SELF? | LEZAH::BOBBITT | invictus maneo | Fri Jul 21 1989 10:41 | 10 |
| As I was skimming through some magazines recently, I noticed the
August issue of SELF magazine has a whole article on ectopic
pregnancies. They go into the fact that there are more ectopic
pregnancies now than ever, some conjecture as to why, and they focus
on the fact that there is MUCH more reassurance and consolation
offered to mothers of fully-born children who die, than to women
who lose their children prior to birth. Maybe it'd be worth a read.
-Jody
|
| 705.18 | Just keep plugging away .... | GRANPA::TTAYLOR | | Fri Jul 21 1989 12:19 | 19 |
| Lise:
Take all the time you need to grieve. I still haven't gotten over
it, after 7 years. It took a long time for Freddy and I to talk
about it, there was a LOT of guilt involved because we weren't married.
His family was VERY distraught, he was the head of the family,
how could he betray them like this??? That sort of thing. Anyway,
my family was VERY supportive, but initially they were very upset
because Freddy and I weren't married and we had done "something
stupid" in their eyes, like not legalising the union before attempting
to have children. Well, these things happen, right?
Anyway, give it some time. It took Freddy and I almost a year before
we could talk about it without fighting or breaking down.
Mail me if you like, I'd be more than happy to talk!
Tammi
|
| 705.19 | A long time ago, far far away. | OTOU01::BUCKLAND | mus ogre otigoc | Wed Jul 26 1989 11:43 | 24 |
| Many years ago I was travelling around Europe when I got a call to say
my son (Terry 21 months) had been taken to hospital with suspected
luekemia. I rushed back home and managed to see him just before he
died. I still vividly recall my father in tears as he told me the bad
news. We kept asking why, what had we done wrong? We blamed ourselves
as there was no-one else to blame.
My wife and I received terrific support from both family and friends
as well as each other. This support, more than anything else, helped
us to get through a very difficult period.
We were lucky. Exactly 365 days later our second son Kevin was born.
My wife is a buddhist with a belief in reincarnation. She still holds
to the belief that Kevin is a reincarnation of Terry, a belief that
whilst I do not share, I will not argue with. This belief has also
helped her to deal with her grief.
Kevin is now over 16 years old, Terry would have been 19. We often
wonder what might have been.
The grief will never go away, I still cry whenever I tell anyone
about Terry, but it does ease over time.
Bob
|
| 705.20 | Go in peace | BRONS::BURROWS | Jim Burrows | Tue Aug 01 1989 01:22 | 48 |
| My wife and I lost a little one to a miscarriage about two years
ago now. I've written about it in a couple of files since then,
and if I make it through this one without weeping, it'll be the
first time. I don't think I will.
It's hard, and there's nothing that can be done about that. You
just have to work your way through it and live your life. In our
case the baby would have been our fourth, so we are very lucky,
we have three lovely boys who remind us every day about how well
it can work out and how lucky we are. It would have been a lot
harder, I'm sure, if it were our first that we lost.
The things that helped me the most were our friends--thank you
Ann for being there when I could not--and the realization that
for all that I miss the poor little one I loved it ("it" not
because it was a thing but because I don't feel right using
"him" or "her" without knowing) for the time we we given, even
if it didn't make it out into the world. For a few months it
brought us joy and pleasure, and then it was gone. All-in-all
I'd rather live with my sadness and have had they joy than not
had the joy at all.
It was also very hard on my oldest boy losing the baby, and he
and I still cry together over it sometimes. This year's premiere
episode of Star Trek, the New Generation in which Troia's
new-born died/left had us both in complete tears and he was just
overhearing it from the next room.
Strangely enough, it was easier on Selma losing the baby than it
was for me. She'd never grown quite as "attached" to this one as
to the others, and upon reflection is fairly sure that it was
because it didn't feel quite right. Thus she had a lot longer to
get used to the idea that something was wrong, and it didn't
come as such a surprise.
Well, it turns out I still can't write about it with a dry eye.
I'm getting to the point where I don't have to stop writing
because I can't see through the tears any more though.
I'll miss my little one. I'll never forget it. I'll never stop
loving it. And I doubt I'll ever stop missing it or crying for
it either. But more important to me are the ones I have, and the
wife who bore them. Loving them, and being loved back, and being
able to share both the joys and the sorrows is a much larger
part of my life. And I'm still glad it visited with us for even
as long as it did.
JimB.
|