Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    RE: .0
    
    I feel sad for you, but you must be strong.  I've had the same 
    problem, and also cervical cancer.  The doctors have told me that
    my chances of carrying a child are slim to none.  I've had many
    operations but for tumors, not to correct the infertility.
    
    I love children and always wanted many.  But sometimes these things
    just aren't meant to be.  I still believe there may be a chance,
    although I know in my heart that there isn't much of one (maybe
    GIFT or In-Vitro).  Adoption of a child is a wonderful, giving thing.
     Believe me, the children I babysit are like my own.  I think that
    you can get over this feeling of "not creating" this child.  All
    children need love, nurturing, protection, and a good atmosphere
    where they can be happy and thrive.  You can provide these things
    to an unfortunate child who might not have much of a future were
    he/she not put up for adoption.
    
    If your SO cannot accept the fact that you cannot give him the son
    he wants, that's his problem.  Love isn't conditional, it should
    not hinge on the fact that you can/cannot have children.
    
    Good luck.  Maybe you should try counseling.  When I lost my twins
    in an ectopic pregnancy, I was devastated and sought counseling.
     It really helped a lot.
    
    Tammi
    

    I looked up topics relating to infertility and having children,
    and found the following topics which might also interest you:
    
    WOMANNOTES-V2
    387:  infertility - alternatives to the alternatives
    
    WOMANNOTES-V1
    253:  infertility
    719:  infertility support group
    
    PARENTING
    310:  infertility frustrations
    
    MEDICAL
    314:  infertility
    432:  infertility specialists

    PSYCHOLOGY
    30:  comfort for a woman who can't have children
    
    

if the original author feels comfortable enough - please send me mail. Perhaps
I can add something for you to think about.

julie

    I know you asked for comments from the women of this community,
    so please disregard this if you wish.

    We also tried for many years to become pregnant.  I think it was
    infinitely easier just to never get pregnant than to endure
    the tragedies you've described.  Clearly your desire for children
    is strong to still be searching for solutions.

    I encourage you to contact RESOLVE, an organization helping
    people work through infertitliy difficulties.  Also, you both
    may want to seek some councelling to better understand what
    you really want.  This helped us a lot.

    We knew that having children was more important than that
    they result from our pregnancy.  Adoption is a way to make
    this happen.  For us, it became 'first choice'.
    
    The language of adoption is very difficult, but just a comment.
    People with both adopted and biological children would not refer to
    only some as 'their own'.  This is because all their children
    are 'their own', in every sense of the word.  Once born, they
    are all just kids, who you can love and love you back, who
    imitate your every move and reflect back your worst and best.
    It may not be right for you now or ever, but it is always one
    way to build a family.
    Take care,
    bob

    re: .4
    
    Perhaps you could send mail to the co-moderator who posted the
    basenote, and they could forward it to the anonymous poster.  This
    gets your information to them, while preserving their anonymity...
    
    -Jody
    

    I wonder if surrogacy has been considered and discarded?  I'm not a big
    fan of surrogacy, but understand it can work for some situations.
    
    My understanding is that if you are still generating eggs, they can be
    extracted and placed in a petri dish to be fertilized by your husband's
    sperm, in vitro fertilization.  The fertilized ova can be implanted in
    a surrogates uterus to be carried to term under a legally binding
    agreement.  
    
    There are *lots* of issues around it, and it's risky as we all learned
    with the Baby M case.  May be worth a thought though.
    
    all the best,
    Marge

    to the anonymous author of .0
    
    My heart goes out to you. You ask for advice and it's very hard to
    give.
    
    First, my own track record:  I had a daughter, who died of crib-death
    at age six-weeks.  A year later I lost an unborn son 7.5 months into a
    pregnancy due to an accident.  Then for 6 years we did not attempt to
    have children.  When we began to try again, we found out we were unable
    to conceive.  We were devastated.
    
    That was four years ago.
    
    We began to look at the alternatives involved and the implications of
    each.  We began to look strongly at our own motivations as well.
    
    Obviously we couldn't just let nature take its course.  
    
    Many of the alternative measures available require the use of drugs
    that are not expected to be harmful, but have been in use for so brief
    a time that the long-term effects are not known.  We asked ourselves if
    our desire for a child was strong enough to ignore the possibility that
    these measures might result in problems similar to those associated
    with DES or other massive hormone treatments used in the 1950's [the
    root of our own especial problem].
    
    For us, the answer was 'no.'  For us, 'yes' would have meant putting
    our desire for a child above the welfare of that child.
    
    Adoption is an option which we have not eliminated.  However, it is not
    an easy one either.  There are so many lives impacted by an adoption,
    trying to find a healthy and equitable arrangement for all of the lives
    involved makes that SALT talks look like deciding on what toothpaste to
    buy.
    
    Having lost our own daughter, we would not wish to deprive anyone of
    access to a child given up for adoption.  I still occasionally wonder,
    wistfully, what she'd be doing now and what she'd look like; I do not
    know if I could bear knowing that [of not knowing if] she were alive
    and that I would _never_ see her again.
    
    For awhile I was obsessed with having a child to the point that it was
    despoiling an otherwise happy life.  That's no longer the case.  We
    will most probably never have children, but we are happy and fulfilled
    and do not feel ourselves to be lacking.
    
    You will have to come to terms with your own priorities and needs and
    take a hard look at your life in ways that most will never have to.
    
    I am hoping that you can find answers that are, for you, as happy as
    mine are for me.  I am at the net-address above if you feel the need to
    'talk'
    
      Ann
    

    Dear Base noter:
      My heart goes to you. I just lost my 3rd child 1 month ago tomorrow!
    I know the pain and the grief and my arms reach out to you. 
    The first was a healthy baby boy whom I put up for adoption, the
    second I lost during my 3rd month and the 3rd was etopic. I lost
    my right tube and the baby!
      I have to do these things so I don't bring myself down.
    I tell myself that I am very lucky not to have died, I make a gratuide
    list that I read everytime the tears flow.
      I let the tears flow and let them stop naturally! I don't pick
    up a 2x4 and hit myself though I'd love to because I can't have
    anymore due to MY neglect.
    
      I know the bleakness you can see when you see no children I have
    seen it too! I also can see the sunlight that * I * am alive today!
    
      I know that I turned to God and at times I blames God. Today
    I can ask help from God to help me with the feeling of the failure.
      
      I know the feeling that all women you look at are pregnat or all
    babies are just new born and feeling cheated!
    
      Person that wrote this I know your pain I am still feeling and
    as I am typing I am crying! 
    
      I also face a childless future not by choice but whether I like
    it or not I don't have 3-5 thousand for in Virto and neither does
    my boyfriend.
    
       I am lucky he doesn't hold any hard feelings. 
    My heart aches for you Pls write me peersonnaly if you feel like
    it.
    
    Lise K.

Re: 696.8

   If you are a Digital employee, and you are insured through
 the John Hancock administered plan, Digital *WILL* pay for
 IVF.

    You have to meet any one of several criteria.  I don't
  remember what they all are, but blocked tubes is one of
  them.  I imagine that having one or both tubes removed
  could qualify you.

    Contact John Hancock.

    I know this is true.  My wife has just gone through
 her *fourth* IVF attempt.  Digital has paid the *vast* majority
 of expenses on each attempt.

 (I've really wondered whether Infertility and Adoption
  should get their own notesfile.  The material in previously
  mentioned conferences just doesn't address what is a very
  large issue.)

re: .0

  I feel there is probably nothing I can say that will help
 you deal with your grief.

  When you feel up to it I urge you to get in touch with
 the local chapter of Resolve. Any good fertility doctor
 or adoption agency (or phone book?) should know how to
 get you in touch.  The local chapter where I live
 has a monthly lecture, but, they also have a meeting room
 at the lecture where you can meet along with others, and a
 trained counselor, just to discuss how you feel.  It can
 help.

   On adoption,  right now I can understand how it doesn't
 have much of an appeal.  The education my wife and I have
 gone through on our own and what is required by the adoption
 agency we're dealing with can be quite enlightening. For
 myself, I've gone from seeing adoption as some sort of
 fallback if the IVF didn't work to a *fantastic* way to
 build a family.

 re: Peoples remarks about why you don't have (more) children.

  "Just one child?, one was enough, heh?"

  or some other nosy remark.

    Most people just ask question like this to make smalltalk.
  You can't hold it against them to much.  Do your own bit
  for education.

  The next time your someone asks you an insensitive question
  like the above, don't hedge, tell them exactly what your
  going through, they *did* ask.  It will probably be a short
  conversation and that person will likely never make that kind
  of remark again.  I can make you feel better.

 Fertility Doctors:

  If you have a fertility problem I have one piece of advice.
  (Seven years worth of fertility experience speaking.)

  Go see a *REAL* fertility specialist.  An OB/GYN (or something)
  who also does fertility problems just doesn't measure up.
  You should go see a group of doctors (I can't believe one doctor
  alone can handle fertility problems.) who have done at least some
  successful IVF work.  I think a nice figure is *more* than
  50 *full term* IVF pregnancies.  If you have a fertility
  problem, temperature charts, post-coital tests, and simple
  sperm tests are at least 15 *years* out of date.  This should
  be the clinics only purpose.  The two clinics that my wife
  and I have worked with do no OB/GYN work.   Going to a
  real fertility clinic can save *YEARS* in resolving your
  fertility problems.