Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I got married last November and my maitron-of-honor (sister) held
    a Jack and Jill in our honor.  She just went to a print studio and
    had simple tickets made up.  She sold tickets for about $10.00 a
    head.  
    
    We had close to a hundred guests.  Gifts are *NOT* given at Jack
    and Jills.  The money for the tickets paid for the DJ, hall, and
    munchies.
    
    It is a lot of planning, but it shouldn't cost you anything.
    
    I think it is more practical to have a J&J as opposed to a shower.
    Bob and I lived together for 3 years and were pretty much established.
    So it was more practical for us to have money rather than duplicate
    toasters, etc.
    
    TB

    I personally feel that Jack & Jill showers are tacky and that to
    request one is even tackier.  There is no doubt that weddings are
    expensive but from day one of a marriage, you should not try to live
    beyond your means.  Having a "fundraiser" in order to have a more
    expensive wedding or expecting others to sell tickets to help furnish
    your first apartment is not what I consider "getting off to a good
    start".
    
    I know that when I'm approached for one of these events, I feel
    uncomfortable because this to me, is just one more thing I'll have
    dish out money on.  Attending weddings has become expensive to 
    the guests.  A family member of mine recently got married and I was
    expected to attend 3 showers, 1 jack and jill, the wedding and not to
    mention the purchase of evening clothes to attend a black tie wedding.
    This cousin's wedding costed me over $400.  
    
    I think Jack & Jill's should be banned!
    
    Debra
    
    

    Two things - Personally I think Jack & Jills are a lot more fun than
    the traditional "ladies only" bridal showers.  The "groom" is getting
    married too - and any gifts are really for him too! 
    
    Secondly there are many ways to do a Jack & Jill that won't ruin you
    financially.  I just went to one last weekend that was a lot of fun-
    Tickets were $5, it was at a hall with a DJ and everyone bought a small
    gift.  Any extra money was given to the couple Other ideas:
    
    1) Luau/outdoor barbecue/Beach party! (pool party if the pool is available!)
    Themes for the shower gifts could be outdoorsie stuff.
    
    2) Wine and Cheese tasting party - ask each guest to bring two bottles
    of their favorite wine, one bottle wrapped for the couple and one
    bottle for the party.  This type of party would be best planned around
    the cocktail hour.  Food may include cheese, appetizers, fruits,
    crackers and breads (shouldn't be a real big expense - you just want
    your guests to be able to clean the palette between tastings). Before
    each wine is tasted, ask the guest who brought the bottle to offer a
    toast to the couple.  Other gifts if guests don't want to bring wine:
    barware, champagne/wine glasses, champagne bucket, wine rack, carafe
    etc.
    
    
    3) What's wrong with a morning brunch for both the men & women? 
    
    4) If everyone in the families don't know each other real well, have a
    "Meet the family shower!"  One of my cousins had one and it was lots of
    fun.  Everyone had to have a name tag with their relationship to either
    the bride or groom and their name on it.  They had old family pictures,
    movies, baby pictures of the bride and groom, scrapbooks, highschool
    yearbooks, memory albums, newspaper clippings or the bride and groom as
    well as some of the other members in each family.  The movies were run
    off to the side and were really funny.  Pictures were posted on the
    walls. They only received two gifts, one was a copy of their family
    tree, the other was a enlarged photograph of their engagement picture
    with all of their friends signatures on the matted frame.  Later they
    played some taped music for dancing.
    
    
    Hope these ideas help.
    
    Suzanne

    AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!
    
    
    
    
    Another cash oriented party for a bride and groom!
    
    
    I have been to several Jack and Jill's and they were all worst than
    the others!
    
    
    
    
    The last person suggested some *LOVELY* ideas for "showers" to include
    the groom.  J&J's are just about as tacky as money tree's and dollar
    dances!  I would also suggest that someone ask the bride what she
    might like to do.  SHe might like something totally different!
    
    
    Sue
    

    re: .2
    
    I stated in .1 that people rather have a Jack & Jill *INSTEAD* of
    a shower/bachelor party, etc.  because they are all ready established.
    
    I didn't ask anyone to help establish our new home.  I didn't want to
    get gifts for my home.  I had a home for three years, so I thought it was
    a waste to have a wedding shower.  My sister thought it would be
    great to have a J&J.
    
    I had a great time at my J&J and everyone else did too.  
    
    I think it's pretty TACKY that relatives and friends think that
    the bride and groom are asking them to be financially burdened.
    
    TB

    "100+ people"--for a shower--that sounds more like a wedding to
    me!  I had always thought showers were for the "closest"family and
    friends, not the entire wedding guest list.  If what you're brother's
    suggesting is that he wants to be included in the shower, that's
    one thing, but asking you to throw a large party is another, and
    to agree with a few notes back, "tacky".  If the issue is whether
    or not to include men with the shower, there are pros and cons that
    can be easily sorted out..but it sounds like this is a bigger issue
    than that.
    
    On another point, I had always thought that showers were to be thrown
    by someone other than a family member, because the families already
    have so many expenses...                                
    
    Good luck.
    
    Susan

    To me a "Jack and Jill" implies buying a ticket or otherwise
    contributing money to the engaged couple. Is this the common
    understanding of what that means? People can have 'coed' showers
    without it being a 'Jack and Jill'.
    
    Bonnie

    We had a Jack and Jill shower when we got married, but I have never
    heard of selling tickets to the event.  It's the same thing as a
    shower for just the women where they are expected to bring gifts,
    so I don't understand why people think that it is more tasteless to
    have the Jack and Jill.  At our shower, we held it at a hall with
    a band and a sit-down dinner, but then that's what we normally do
    in my family for showers (and we had about 160 people at the shower).  
    None of us have ever liked the women-only at somebody's house routine.
    That way, it was more like a big party, and both the men and women
    got to have fun.  I figure that the groom is also getting married,
    so he should be able to take part in all the festivities.
    
    And we went by the Italian (Rhode Island Italian, that is) custom 
    where both shower and wedding gifts are cash.  The tradition goes
    back to the days when no one could afford a wedding, so the gift
    is basically to cover the plate for the shower, and to cover the
    plate plus a little for the gift for the wedding.  And my parents
    paid for our shower.  I did not expect any of my maids to give a
    shower. 
    
      

    There is a topic in Womannotes version 1 that discusses this, it's
    
    699:  Coed Showers - Your opinion
    
    -Jody
    

    RE: 7
    
    I think it depends on where you live - the definition varies.  I've
    always considered a Jack & Jill to be a shower that  includes the men
    as well as the women.  In certain areas/families, money giving is more
    common and accepted than in others.  
    
    Personally a shower for "ladies" which includes watching the bride open
    umpteen gifts is boring and I don't like attending them.  Unforunately
    I didn't let my maid of honor and my mother know that and that was
    exactly what they gave me.  I would have muched prefered something a
    little different that included my fiance and his friends.  So it is
    wise to ask both the bride and groom what they would prefer.
    
    I did go to one Jack & Jill which was really funny - the women had to
    buy gifts for the groom and the men had to buy gifts for the bride.
    Now watching them open these gifts was entertaining!
    
    
    Suzanne
    
    P.S. Tacky is telling other people that their customs for weddings and
    showers is tacky!
    

    I agree that Jack & Jill showers are different from co-ed showers.
    
    I think co-ed showers are great and should be encouraged.
    
    Proper etiquette does say that showers, etc. should not be
    given by immediate family.  On the other hand, if a bride and
    groom are already established because of their living arrangements
    prior to the wedding, then only a wedding gift is necessary.  Showers
    for couples established in a home are in poor taste in my book.
    
    Debra
    

    Ya learn somethin' new every day, I guess... Here I'd always thought
    "Jack and Jill" was a cutesy term for a co-ed shower, and had NEVER
    heard of such a thing as buying tickets to a party prior to the wedding.
    I suppose it could be a lot of fun, but I would have thought that if
    you're already planning a large-ish wedding and/or reception, adding a
    pre-wedding party for 100+ people seems like overkill. (But then, I
    think that 20 people makes a large party, so I'm not exactly heavily
    into socializing on a grand scale!)
    
    I'm not wildly fond of the idea of parties specifically for the purpose
    of getting cash gifts, but that's personal prejudice. (I don't like
    money trees either.) But if it's an acceptable form of entertainment
    within your social group, why not go for it?
    
    My basic theory: It is (or should be) an honor to be asked to undertake
    part of the responsibility for wedding-related activities - but if I
    were asked to do something that would take more time or money than I
    thought I could manage (or which exceeded my "tackiness" quota!), I
    would decline the honor with thanks. (Or, of course, suggest simpler
    alternatives that I thought I could handle, and see if that was
    acceptable to whoever was doing the asking.)
    
    It is kind of funny how wild people can get over these differences in
    family traditions. Republican and Democrat can marry and live happily
    ever after, but those who open Christmas presents on Christmas Eve
    should never marry into a Christmas-morning family...
    
    -b

    
    As the orginator of the note, I guess I should explain
    for other's in the U.S. and elsewhere, Jack and Jill
    means a lot of things, some of which have been mentioned
    here. I never heard of it myself (I grew up in Maynard)
    til a friend of mine from Fitchburg mentioned it was
    a tradition in that area. It can mean buying tickets, 
    throwing a "couples shower", and can be in an ethnic
    tradition. 
    
    A lot of ideas here are great - I think
    the only one I have a problem with is selling tickets -
    I would feel weird sending invitations to people 
    and asking for money. (That just my preference, I know
    people that have had a great time at some, and they 
    can be done in good taste). 
    
    Just some things I wanted to stress about this particular
    situation:
    
    My brother is requesting this, not his fiance. 
    
    Her family is New York and only her mother will 
    be attending - the rest of her friends are so
    scattered that I imagine we will only meet them
    at the wedding.
    
    
    It's my BROTHERS friends that live in the area and
    he wants to attend - he seems to be concerned about
    having a bash and having fun with his friends. I am
    feeling this event should be something for HER and
    with the geography problems, a quiet event is in order. 
    My problem is my brother wants to be the center of
    attention - so I wanted to avoid a couples event
    where he is star of the day.
                                
    He caused "problems" at my shower and my sisters. I
    won't even go into it, but this may clarify my dilemna....
    
    Thanks for the suggestions so far!.
    
    
    

    hi, 
    
    it sounds to me like you're really not interested in having a shower
    that your brother attends and that you're somewhat offended that
    he'd try to tell you what kind of shower to give. it also sounds
    like you have some big concerns about what will happen if there
    are men at the shower. 
    
    i liked the idea of talking to your future sister-in-law to ask what
    _she_ wants. also, i wonder what would happen if you didn't serve
    alcohol (i may have gotten the mistaken impression that that's been a
    problem at past events). maybe your brother's best man could throw him
    a bachelor's party somewhere so that he can be a star and hang out with
    his friends. one last suggestion: i went to one shower (where, btw, we
    gave _very_ inexpensive presents) where the groom showed up for about
    15 minutes at the end -- he dutifully admired all the presents, we
    embarrassed him unmercifully in a cute way, and then we disbanded...
    hope this helps... and i hope that you and your mother find a good
    solution that includes what _you_ feel comfortable with. 
    
    liz

    I have a suggestion.  Since it is your brother who is interested
    in the party, and since he seems to want it for his friends to have
    a good time, maybe you could have something with just that group
    of people.  When my brother-in-law Rick got married in Nashville, his
    wife's family planned lots of events for the few days before the
    wedding since all of Rick's family as well as the bridal party was
    coming from out-of-state.  The bride had already had several showers
    (one in Nashville, one in Charleston, and one in Boston), yet none
    of the groom's family was able to attend due to distance.  So the
    bride's sister planned a lingerie shower where the bridesmaids and
    the groom's family was invited while the ushers and rest of the
    men went out for a bachelor party.  The shower was held at a
    restaurant, and we all pitched in for our own food.  After that,
    the women met the men at a nightclub at a pre-arranged time for
    dancing into the wee hours of the morning.  The bride and groom
    had also rented a hotel suite so that people could crash there instead
    of going back to their hotels on the other side of town.  Maybe
    you could do something like this so that everyone would have a good
    time (to satisfy your brother), and you could still have a shower
    that is within your budget.  You might also want to do it when some
    of the out-of-town guests arrive if you think they should be included.
     In my brother-in-law's case, all of the out-of-town folks were
    either siblings, parents, grandparents, or members of the wedding
    party, so there wasn't an unmanageable number of people.
    
    

    
    Liz you hit the booze problem right. That turned into
    a problem at my sister's shower, and I would not want
    the fiasco repeated - this was at my parents home, so 
    they could have been held responsible for the stupid
    actions of others. Unfortunately, my sisters mother-in-law  
    insisted ALL people from her side of the family attend
    this shower, which is why it swelled to 100+, which
    when you think of it is coming close to having 2 weddings! 
    
    Those ideas are wonderful - I myself figured several
    small showers to accomodate family and friends could
    be arranged - i.e, for those in New York, friends
    where they live in Maine, and one here. The brides
    mother prefers the focus to be in this area, which
    is why we, the groom's family, are getting TOO involved
    for my taste. When my husbands brother married 
    in Virginia, we stayed a week and had several occasions
    and events (with women only, men and women cocktail party, etc)
    and it turned out to be fun, and we got to know the names
    and faces. 
    
    However, this wedding is in Maine, and most people are planning
    only a two night stay, making things tight. We will 
    be near Kennebunkport, which is expensive - many will 
    have to plan well ahead for the cost as it is. The bride
    has met all of our family through parties and holidays
    and the respective parents are scheduled to meet soon.
    
    One thing our family here came up (today, yes we 
    are getting stressed out about this now) with is get a hall 
    from 3-7 in the late afternoon, with some hors'oevres
    and buy your own drinks. After 7, everyone is on there 
    own... that could work!  
                 
    I am really fascinated with the variety of traditions 
    and experiences people have written about here. I
    hope to hear more!                       
    

I wanted a co-ed shower (I called 'em J&J, but that had nothing to do with
tickets). My mother could not live with inviting _her_ friends to one. So...

The 'traditional' shower started in the afternoon, in door, at my cousin's
house. The men who came 'early' (with their female SOs) hung out outside (with
a keg, though that sounds like a problem for you). We did the giving of
'female-type' gifts, punch, surprise male dancer, etc (there was a glass door
to the outside, and the guys really enjoyed 'peeking' in.) The J&J portion
started in the early evening, with plenty of time for mom's friends to retreat.
People who came then gave us gifts like gumby's, and we hung out and played
cards (the J&J crowd tended to be my friends).

I bet it required a lot of work, but it didn't seem to require too much money
(you can save by cutting out the male dancer, or getting a friend to stand in).
	Mez

    Reading this note has been a good lesson in Valuing Differences! It's
    interesting to see the different perspectives and attitudes towards
    J&Js/cash/coed showers.
    
    Personally I find J&Js offensive because the seem to be an outright
    request for cash.... but that's based on my experience with that type
    of pre-wedding event.
    
    Regarding your situation specifically, I really think that you and your
    Mom (and siblings?) need to determine what (if anything) you feel
    comfortable doing -- regardless of your brother's desires and desire to
    be center of attention. Given your comment that only the mother of the
    bride would be coming to a Maynard local event, why don't you consider
    some of the ideas from earlier replies, such as a
    meet-the-bride-and-mom cocktail hour and limit it to 2 hrs or so. I
    also thought the idea of bringing wine and cheese for a party was nice,
    and inexpensive.
    
    Bottom line is that you and your Mom should not be pressured into
    something costly nor something where you have to manage large groups of
    unruly people.
    
    And remember -- Miss Manners Etiquette: The rule of thumb is that the
    MAID OF HONOR is responsible for coordinating the shower!
    
    --Lynn
    

    
    I can't believe it, but we came upon a solution that
    seems to fit:
    
    Not putting my Mom through the nightmare of hosting 
    over 100 guests, 
    
    Not spending a lot of money;
    
    Includes both men and women;
    
    Is not TOO boring;            
    
    and will probably keep most people in "control".
    
    We have decided to host a cocktail hour from 3-7 at 
    a local restaurant. They will provide us with a 
    bartender for $50, the lounge, and provide appetizers
    at a reasonable price. They will also serve cake,
    etc to the guests. People will be responsible for
    their own drinks.                     
    
    Since this is a restaurant, we figured most people 
    will be on their best behavior, and this solves 
     what we thought was a "potential problem" of 
    people getting out of hand. 
    
    Both sides of the wedding parties will attend and 
    at least we will have met them and the brides Mom
    before the wedding. If people want to stay after 7 for 
    dinner, or stay for entertainment later in the evening,
    the have the option of doing both if they wish. 
    
    I noted the mention of the maid of honor doing the planning -
    Unfortunately, she is out of state and not familiar 
    about this area, so this is how we ended up with it.
    We have talked with her on the phone, and she's sure
    everyone will enjoy it. 
    
    I think this is going to work out well! I hope
    people still reply about their experiences - there
    have been some great ideas mentioned. 
                          
    
    
    
    
    
                                          

    When I married the first time down south, I had a traditional southern
    wedding with a twist of New England (as my Mother is from Mass,
    ironic I should end up here).
    
    Two nights before the wedding we had a casual barbeque/pool party
    at a freinds house.  This was my first experience of "Jack & Jill"
    party.  We were not expecting gifts, we planned this as a way for
    all the families and friends to meet in a relaxed atmosphere.  It
    was great.  However, being from a Southern Baptist area, the liquer
    was very limited.
    
    Kim

    When my husband and I were married, we had what I refer to as a
    Jack and Jill...it was held in a hall, my parents and relatives
    did the cooking.  Men and women were invited (family and very close
    neighbors only).  The entire wedding guestlist was NOT invited.
    We had a GREAT time!  Even my husband enjoyed it.  Unlike the
    previous replies, our shower was not the type where tickets are
    sold.  I'd find that kind to be extremely in poor taste.
    
    I specifically asked for that type of shower (actually, I just wanted
    a simple family picnic).  I don't think that it was wrong to ask
    either.  One of the responsiblities of the maid of honor, is to
    plan a shower.  Sorry, but it is quite expensive to be a member
    of a wedding party.  
    
    Personally, I hate all-women showers.  I find them to be very boring,
    and I try to avoid them if at all possible.  I also decline to attend
    most showers if the couple is living together already, or if it's
    a second marriage.  At that point, the primary thing they need is
    money, which I do not give at showers.
    
    Robin

>"    I also decline to attend
>    most showers if the couple is living together already, or if it's
>    a second marriage.  At that point, the primary thing they need is
>    money, which I do not give at showers.
>    
>    Robin"

Fascinating.  The people I know who are getting married are in their early
to mid-twenties, do live together and many are in or just starting to get
over the stage of 2 knives, 2 forks, two towels in their household.  If
people were inclined to give these people any gifts, sets of towels and
all that setting up stuff is precisely what they would need and like!

--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*

About the shower business in general...

I've never *heard* of inviting guests to pay for a shower by buying
tickets!!!  And, I'm from western Massachusetts, originally.  A jack and
jill shower to me is just a co-ed shower.

To me the big showers that people are having with more than 100 people in
attendance are not showers at all but engagement parties.  My understanding
of the difference is based on size.  For a shower you might have 15 people
who you are close to while for an engagement party you might have 30-200.

Tamar

    I am 30 years old and a vet of two divorce(one marrage was a common
    law). I quite by accident met a man with whom I was willing to try
    one more time. It is his first and we agree our last marrage.
    
    I wanted to elope. I mean why waste the money, right. Well he wanted a 
    formal wedding with all six of his brothers and sisters there. And he
    wanted all of his brothers as groomsmen(four of them). He has another
    good friend as a bestman.
    
    I tried for weeks to talk him around, but this was very important to
    him. SO the wedding is Sept 16 and there are going to be 200
    invitations sent. Many are out of town and probally wont arrive.
    
    The point is that with me living week to week supporting my children
    and with his "bachlor habits"there are many things that we have not 
    been able to replace as they have worn out. Towel and sheets being 
    on that list.
    
    One of my friends gave a lingere party for me and it was a lot of fun.
    Another is planning a Tupperware party/shower that will go on while
    the men and children are in the (large, heated suitablly furnished)
    garage having a party of their own.
    
    I have never heard of a jack and jill party. I agreed to the Tupperware
    party as it was an easy way of letting people know some of the things
    we want/need. I have had some opinions expressed to me and the ladies
    that have volenteered to host the parties about having a Sales oriented
    shower and my imediate feeling is where were they when we started 
    brainstorming about is 3 months ago. The party is being co-planned and
    one of the planners is adamant about keeping the integrety of a 
    "Bridal shower" whatever that means. I just felt that if we were only
    going to do this once and we are choosing to take the trouble of
    planning this celebration. It would be fun to have some bridal
    showers and silly stuff like that. I also thought a product that
    I cant get enough of would be easy to plan and make gift giving 
    easier. Lingere and Tupperware fit that catagory.  They also offered a 
    variety of low cost idems that I need/want that it would make it easier
    for some of my friends to afford to participate. I would't mind if they 
    didnt get me a present but I have been asked so many times "Well what 
    do you need?" That I thought this was a simple solution.
    
    I do have a hard time getting money as a gift. As much a I truely 
    appriciate it I have a hard time figuring out how to express my 
    thanks appropriatly in the Thank you card. 
    
    Question:Do people who have the 200 plus "jack and jill" partys send
    out thank yous?
    
    janet
    
    P.S. I am sending out invites for the wedding to include the familys of
    our friends and relative so we are expecting 100 to 150 men, women and
    children to show.
    
    
    
    
    

On Thank You cards for cash:

I tell 'em what I'm going to spend it on. After the wedding there were
honeymoon bills, which it went towards (in spirit, if in fact I did not make
sure the exact dollar bills went to pay them off). 

Food is nice too :-). I wouldn't mind being thanked for a tenderloin dinner.
	Mez

    I had one of those large double showers with about 160 people.  It was
    held about a month before the wedding, and all gifts for both the
    shower and the wedding were cash with the exception of 3 gifts (The RI
    Italian custom is cash for weddings and wakes).  When it came to
    thank-you notes, I wrote one note to cover both the shower and the
    wedding gift since both events were so close.  I don't know if that's
    proper etiquette or not, but it seemed to suit the purpose.  
    
    Cathy

    
    The shower I started this whole note about is 
    taking place this weekend. I hope to God never
    to have plan a long distance Jack and Jill/Couples
    (or whatever you want to call it) again. 
                                     
    I think I have come to some conclusions about showers.
    My personal opinion is the wedding party should 
    make a decision of what is affordable for 
    a party, what logistics are involved and number
    of people that can reasonably invited. 
    
    I think people and the wedding couples lately are 
    expecting a shower to become a FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT.
    And I figured that's where the problem is. It's
    not a nightclub, a drunken blowout cookout, a 
    luau, a beach party. It's a shower for the bride
    to get household items to start up a home. I 
    figure if women cannot go, talk with their girlfiends
    and aunts and cousins and have a few drinks and
    bite to eat without getting bands, DJ's and halls
    involved, too bad. 
    
    Two years ago, I managed to be the bride at an all 
    women's shower, and it was just fine. I managed to 
    wait til my wedding day to have the 150 people 
    join me in a party then. 
     
    I feel much better now. I will post a note about how
    it goes.
    
    PS - Can I just say again "I AM NOT THE MAID OF HONOR"! 
    I GOT STUCK WITH IT CAUSE SHE"S OUT OF STATE. OK?
    
    

        The nonsense here seems to me to be oriented around money and no
        around having two sexes at a shower. The latter makes sense to
        me. Concentration on the former makes me remember how much a
        native of the 60's forced to live in the 80's I feel like.
        
        JimB.

    I had a Jack and Jill shower for a member of this community at my
    house a couple of years back.  He knew about it, she didn't. We mainly
    sat around, even played those dumb games that the party stores sell...
    opened gifts, and generally had a very good time.  I had made a cake for
    them both, and we had the usual cheese/crackers/chips to help the games
    along.  I told everyone coming if they wanted alcohol to bring it, and
    the whole evening worked out well..  if you need some suggestions,
    please feel free to send me mail at the above node.
    
    Gale

    
    Well, here's how the shower went:
    
    Our chosen place and ideas for the party turned out great. The shower 
    itself was sucessful, and it seemed to please all. As I had 
    mentioned in previous notes, alcohol, for some relatives was a 
    problem, and this turned out to be the case when people 
    were invited back to my parents. As a result, several persons
    are not attending the wedding. (ie not invited for lack 
    of control, for fear they will ruin the wedding - bride and
    grooms decision)
    
    What a hard thing this was for my family. This problem would
    have happened at the next event or holiday, of that I am 
    positive.  One blessing is we can relax somewhat and attend 
    the wedding not worrying about the behavior of others. 
    
    If anyone sees this notes and recognizes a similar problem
    among family or friends, follow your good sense and plan 
    the event the way you think it will work best. We learned
    the hard way, that for sure! 
    
    
    
                                                           
    
    
    
    
                                 
    
    
    
    
    

    One way  to  deal  with  people who can't handle alcohol is not to
    serve  it. For several reasons, we won't have a bar at our wedding
    (We're  still  trying  to  decide whether we will have a champagne
    toast,  I  expect  that  we will.) Not having a bar cuts the costs
    considerably,  and  deals  simply  with people who might drink too
    much.

--David

    
    One problem with not serving drinks, is that you are not
    always the one with the choice. In our case, the brides
    family is hosting the wedding. Why should they be asked
    to do this because of 2 people from our family who can't behave? 
    Eliminating these 2 as guests was an easier solution. 
                       
    Cost is not a factor, as people pay for their own drinks.    
    These people have caused trouble at other holidays, so
    they had their chance, blew it, and will have to get
    their act together before they will be invited to any
    family gathering. It's sad, but no one will put up 
    the fear of another rined eveent.