Conference turris::womannotes-v2

A little intimidated. But, as my astrologer told me, I have this knee jerk
reaction that makes me _want_ to appear 'different' from the norm!
	Mez (female, for those who don't know me)

    let's see if I can get this out right. sometimes the things that one
    best 'knows' at a gut level are the hardest to translate into words
    that are commonly understood.
    
    first, I'm a bit egocentric [aren't we all?] and while everything
    doesn't have to be _about_ me, I am my best point of reference.
    
    that being said, I experience no discomfort finding people of both
    genders extremely attractive beyond the aesthetic.  Sometimes a voice
    or the turn of a wrist or fingernails can touch me 'way down in my
    wishbone' so-to-speak.  to my mind 'sexy' equates to this drawing
    inward feeling of magnetism, because the person epitomises, for me in
    that moment, a sexual being.
    
    I am frequently shy of speaking of this attraction I feel for other
    women, but rarely shy about speaking of men in this context, because
    all too frequently I am misunderstood to mean that that person is an
    object of my sexual desire or fantasies. I don't know about you, but
    the world I live in frequently freaks out faced with such a
    possibility.
    
    so, yes, sometimes I succumb to the peer pressure and remain silent
    happily enjoying the admiration I feel and the pleasure I enjoy living
    in a world of magnetic and fascinating people of both genders.
    
    after all, I can choose the way I live my life, but I can't choose who
    I find attractive. can I now?
    
    am I making any sense?
    
      Ann

     
    
    I made a comment that I don't think that women are sexy to me.  I'm not
    intimidated I just don't see it. There are times when men are oogling a
    female and my thoughts are " what does he possibly see in the skinny
    dumb blond or what ever." I don't think that because someone is
    exposing themselves in some scanty artical of clothing or less, makes
    some one sexy. There have been some very attractive women mentioned in
    the sexy woman topic, but that, IMHO, is just what thy are, attractive.
    Everyone who is attractive is not sexy, male or female. Just because I
    do a double take when I see a good looking person doesn't mean I think
    they are sexy. Sexy hits me in my gut, sometimes a set of nice buns is
    sexy, but that doesn't necessarly make the person supporting them so. 
    

    IMHO...Intimidated?I don't think so,....probably "odd" would
    describe my feeling here. Even tho I'm female, There are some
    qualities that I find attractive in other women that makes me
    wish I were more "like that" (i.e. "I wish I had a sultry voice
    like Carly Simon...if I were a guy, I would find that attractive")
    Some qualities are from with-in and I find that radiance in
    people in general quite appealing.
    
    Sexy (in describing women) means there's qualities that I admire/
    wish I had......
    
    Sexy (in describing men) means there's qualites that I LUST after
    and make make SWOOOON with romanticism.
    
    make sense?
    
    
    pat
    

    I've already replied on this in the "When is sexy OK?" topic,
    but to reiterate-- I agree with Pat Jeffries. "Sexy" to me
    involves sexual attraction, which I just don't have for men.
    
    If the question was "Who are the handsomest men alive?" I
    could reply with a long list, but there are no men who strike
    me as "sexy" because I don't react to men in that way.
    
    --- jerry

Interesting question, Dana

In college I realized that, by and large, the people I liked 
always struck me as being sexy.  While my hormones only say
:)  :)  :)  in connection to men I find sexy, whatever
it is that makes me pronounce a woman sexy is not intellectual.
I like A. Johnston's (.1?) idea ... related to one's aesthetic
sense.

>  uncomfortable ... intimidated ? ... indifferent

Maybe "unconscious" of our own reactions.  I had had this reaction
for years before I consciously realized it.

>   I admit to knowing *one* very sexy man, but I only know
>   he's sexy by how women respond to him. 

Tell us who. We'll take a vote.  :)

    
    I don't feel a man is sexy because of the way others respond to him.
    For instance, I don't thing Robert Redford is sexy, I wouldn't even put
    him on my list of most handsome men, there is nothing about him that
    appeals to me.

    I have to agree with the noter who said that she can, at the very
    least, tell what would probably appeal to men she knows.
    
    I think that sexiness is an attribute that transcends looks.  I
    was married to someone who was rather plain, and no one else would
    ever have described him as sexy, but he was to me.
    
    Male or female, there seems to be a glow, a healthy energy,
    playfulness, passion, and gentleness that makes me think of someone
    as 'sexy'.
    
    Cat
    

I'm mostly attracted physically and emotionally to women but it
certainly is not an all or nothing thing.

As to what I find sexy, who knows.  Some of it is physical, some
emotional, some comes from a place that is beyond categories and
analysis.

I wonder if homophobia did not exist and if in the gay and lesbian
community there was no pressure to be exclusively homosexual, what
the situation would be.  

john

    re .9, (not explicitly directed to John)-
    
    >  I wonder if homophobia did not exist and if in the gay and lesbian
    >  community there was no pressure to be exclusively homosexual,
    
    The second clause of this premise confused me, and I realized I don't
    know if it is true or not.  Anyone care to enlighten me?  I had thought
    the gay and lesbian communities were philosophically opposed to any
    sorts of pressure regarding individuals...
    
    DougO

RE:  .-1

For various reasons, *not everyone* in the gay and lesbian communities
is comfortable with bisexuality and/or of people being attracted to
people of the opposite sex.  Perhaps those who are in the gay and lesbian
communities can comment of why this is.  On the other hand, I should
add that many gays and lesbians are very supportive of bisexuality.

Personally, whatever way people choose express there sexuality is fine with
me - gay, strate, or bi.

My own theory is that most of us somewhere between strate and gay.  We
are all socialized to be strate.  Since the gay liberation movement,
it is becoming more OK (to the strate world) to be gay and there is a
supportive community there. Our society still does not seem all that
comfortable with things in between, with things that can not easily be
categorized.  

IMNSHO  (In my not so humble opinion) ;-)
 
john

      I agree with John on this one. I feel most of us are more or less
      on a graduated line between heterosexuality and homsexuality. The
      concept of many being bisexual doesn't seem strange to me. I have
      seen women who I thought were sexy looking, meaning I felt an
      attraction to them. I am primarily interested in men but if I was
      to be placed in a situation where there were only women possible
      as lovers I'd probably end up with a woman without a major
      pychological trama.

      Back in the early 70's I was involved in the fringes of the gay
      community in Denver. You know how it is, all the outcasts, the
      gays, the hippies etc hung out in the same areas. For those of you
      know Denver it was the Capitol Hill area near east Colfax. There
      didn't seem to be a problem with them in associating with those of
      us of other sexual persuasions than their own. I knew several
      bisexuals that were an accepted part of the group. liesl

    Like I said in one of the other topics, occasionally I see a woman,
    whether in the movies, TV, or real life, and the thought will just
    come into my mind, "If I were a man I'd be really attracted to her,"
    or maybe even, "If I were a man I might want to ask her out."  I
    don't know why those thoughts pop into my mind, they just do.  On
    the other hand, if I see a man I think is attractive the thought
    is likely to pop into my mind, "jesus christ, would i love to jump
    on his bones!"  (you might say there's a little more immediacy to
    it when it concerns attractive men)  I might say that there are
    some men I would rape if it were possible, while I have a mild awareness
    that there are a very few women I consider attractive.  Maybe this
    is all due to the conditioning of a society which strongly encourages
    people to be heterosexual (to put it mildly).  Maybe when the thought,
    "If I were a man I'd be attracted to her" pops into my mind, maybe
    what I'm really thinking is, "If it were okay to be attracted to
    other women, I'd be attracted to her."  Who knows?  (I *do* think
    it's *okay* to be attracted to other women, but I wasn't brought
    up to think so.)  I guess the bottomline is that even though I may
    sometimes be vaguely attracted to other women (like Kim Basinger
    or Stevie Nicks) it's nothing compared to how attracted I am to
    some men (like Bruce Springsteen or Dennis Quaid or maybe even a
    few *real life* guys).
    
    Lorna
    

Re:  .13

>   I might say that there are some men I would rape if it were possible,...

I sure hope you don't mean this, Lorna, after all of the discussion in this
file about rape being a crime of violence, not of sex.  I can understand that
you might feel sexually attracted to some men, but would that cause you to
want to do violence to them?

Please, let's be careful with language here.

Did you perhaps mean to suggest that you would seduce them if it were possible?

					--Q (Dick Wagman)

    Re .14, yes I meant I would like to be able to seduce someone as
    attractive as Jon Bon Jovi or Harrison Ford. :-)  Don't worry, I'm
    not about to violently rape any unsuspecting, poor little male
    womannoters!  Anyone who has met me and knows what a huge, strong,
    violent looking person I am would surely tremble at the thought
    of having to defend themselves against me!
    
    I realize rape is not something to joke about, but since I am a
    95 lb., 5'1" weakling, I can't help but think that the thought of
    *me* raping, say, Harrison Ford, would be a joke.  As a matter of
    fact, while the thought of men raping women, because it has
    happened so often in our society, strikes me as a tragedy, the thought
    of women raping men, does seem a bit of a joke.  Sorry if that seems
    sexist....
    
    Lorna
    

    There are  a  very  few  cases of women raping men. It may be even
    more under-reported than men raping women because a man would have
    to  admit  that a woman overpowered her. It's best to avoid joking
    about it.

--David

    RE .16 >because a man would have to admit that a woman 
    overpowered  her
                 ===
    hmmmmmm......

    

    Re .16, thanks, I'll keep it in mind.
    
    
    (I can't help but wonder which I'd rather do this afternoon, rape
    a man or burn the American flag.... )
    
    Lorna
    

RE: .18

    Depends who  you want to offend. I'd be more offended if you raped
    someone.  Most  of  our  politicians would be more offended if you
    burned the flag.

      There's something about these last few entries that makes me think
      of the times I've heard men say that if they were a woman they
      would be a slut and sleep with everyone. I suppose these same men
      would claim that they would love to be raped by a woman. Of course
      either of these replies tells me they have no concept of what sex
      means to a woman and how it's different when your body is invaded
      by another that you did not invite or want. liesl

    
    
    however, I have heard a bad story about an old college buddy of mine
    (a man) that was raped by some other men.  Not a pleasant experience,
    let me tell you.
    
    No, men are rarely raped by women, but they are sometimes raped by
    men.
    
    /Eric

    Re: .20
    
    On a tangent to the tangent:  I was pondering the "passionate sex with
    the mysterious stranger" fantasy today.  The telling difference between
    fantasy and reality is that one is always in control of one's
    fantasies.  Even the so-called "rape" fantasy is usually a "mysterious
    stranger" fantasy under close control.  Any tingle of fear never
    deepens into the real emotion because the fantasizer *knows* that
    nothing bad or unpleasant will happen.
    
    I don't know, of course, but I suspect men and women have some very
    different perspectives on sex simply because of the anatomical
    differences.

    re:.13
    
    In essence, I agree wholeheartedly with you on this, Lorna.
    The difference is that I haven't ever felt any attraction
    for another man. No "if it were OK to be attracted to a man,
    this would be one I was attracted to". To me, it's no
    different than my not being attracted to many women I've met.
    Admittedly, it could well be that I just haven't found "Mr.
    Right", but until I do, how can I tell?
    
    --- jerry

        My reaction here is pretty much Jerry's. I don't find myself
        attracted to men so relative to me and my judgement, I don't
        find them sexy. And for all the time I've spent with women, I'm
        still not at all sure what they find sexy, or even if you can
        categorize women's tastes in a way that speaking of "what women
        find sexy" makes sense, so I don't find I specualte on whether
        other men are sexy to women.
        
        I could rate men as handsome �sthetically, or attractive in the
        sense that their appearence makes you want to get to know them,
        but that's different. There are women I find attractive as
        people in that same way and there are women I find sexy. They
        often overlap, but I've known very sexy women I found
        unattractive (in the above sense) and women who were extremely
        attractive but nearly asexual, or even sexually unattractive.
        
        Of course, I could be unconciously suppressing my true feelings,
        but I don't think so.
        
        JimB.

    I've run  into  people of both sexes who somehow exuded sexuality.
    The  two  most  memorable  were actors on stage. The man was quite
    attractive  by most standards, but only showed this sexuality in a
    particular  play (I saw him in several other shows, and he had the
    locker  next to mine at the gym, so I did run into him a bit.) The
    woman   wasn't  terribly  attractive  by  social  norms,  but  was
    absolutely  sexy  in  the  play  (she  played  the  female lead in
    "Anything Goes".)

    Since seeing   those  people,  I  believe  that  I  can  recognize
    "sexiness" in both sexes, and to some degree, be affected by it.

--David

    "Sexiness" doesn't always imply physical arousal.  When I think of
    icons like Garbo and Hepburn, what I recall are moments of blank
    wonder, their sheer presence momentarily slapping me out of context. 
    All-consuming lust and love cause the same disorientation but, as so
    often in sexual matters, "it's the same, but different".
    
    This sense of the marvelous, of the world suddenly opening into
    possibilities that one hadn't the imagination to dream of, can (much
    more rarely) be given by the "wrong" sex as well.  Lester Bangs
    described having "an erection of the heart" when he first saw Elvis
    Presley.  This doesn't mean that he would've been capable of performing
    sexually with the King, but then I could never picture myself in bed
    with Garbo either.
    
    Ray