Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    
    	There is no way to continue without a discussion or without
    confronting this with him. You must express to him that his position
    is unacceptable to you, else the resentment and anger you say you
    feel developing will express it _for_ you, most likely in a very 
    inappropriate way. You may begin to _act out_ this resentment, instead
    of just expressing the basis of it to him. When you act out your
    feelings cause you chose not to express them, another person very
    likely has no chance whatsoever of figuring out just what's eating
    you.
    
    	How you feel must be aknowledged and validated. You validate
    your own feelings when you're willing to say how you feel to another.
    
    	BTW, by avoiding this issue, you're basically showing him that
    this *is* acceptable to you; all he has to do is stay the same,
    to get what he wants. Think anything will change under those
    conditions? No way.                                                  
    
    	Joe Jas

All depends on the persons involved, but when I really, _really_ need something
from Joe (like this), I schedule a time to talk about it with him. Even though
I can go on at great length about exotic emotional interactions,
extemporaneously, he's more a batch sort of person. He likes to think it out,
and come up with all the answers before launching into interactions.

Also, make sure he understands how important it is to you. Again, we have our
own signals (scheduling the talk is a sure sign). 

In laws, visiting, and time seem like pretty classic problems. My mother got
around them be visiting during the day, when Dad was at work. Working women
rarely have that option, which seems like it should be a blessing :-).
	Mez

    thanks for the responses...just to clarify a little, we have spent
    numerous uninterrupted hours discussing this and I have yet to find
    a solution that is acceptable to both of us.  In the past, I've
    just gone on my visit and lived the weekend knowing that I've angered
    my husband.  This takes alot of the enjoyment out of going.  And
    you're right, I'm getting resentful and I've expressed it.   I need
    to think of an approach that will allow him to understand my need
    to visit, he isn't close to his family so he doesn't  understand.
    Also, he has 2 children from a previous marraige that live 5 minutes
    from my parents (but the emotion is too much to visit for him due
    to his 'part-time' parenting status - to quote him).  He does come
    occasionally, but when he does he argues all the way home (2.5 hours
    in a car arguing is not my idea of a good time!!!)  I'm really
    wondering if there is a solution or if sometimes we just have to
    do the things that are important to us and not worry about the feelings
    of others...He can find many things to say that hurt when it comes
    to my attachment to my family (which is not accessive) such as 'maybe
    you should live with your parents' , 'I can't do for you as your
    parents do', etc.......I'm not sure where it stems from, except
    that I've learned family is not important to him.  Another 'valuing
    difference' possibably???  Well, Thanks for your input.  
    

Isn't there a note on 'fighting fair', either in this version or V1 of the
conference? Sounds like it might be helpful to you.
	Mez

    	Here's how Mom would handle this if the same thing happened
    	to her:
    
    	She'd tell Harold (my stepfather) that she was going to
    	so-and-so's house and would he like to come along. If he
    	didn't, and he got angry, she'd go anyway and basically
    	say, "that's his problem."
    
    	Mom's always been one that did what she wanted. She will not
    	allow the anger/bad temper another ruin her visits.
    
    	If nothing else, I'd encourage you to visit, have a good time,
    	and not be overly-burdened by your husband's anger. I'm going
    	to assume that he'll get over it, and he'll also see that
    	his anger is, now at least, not bothering you as much as maybe
    	he wants it to.
    
    	Seriously hope this helps.
    
    	Scott

    
         I agree with .5.  If it is important to you it should be important
    to him, or at least he should respect what is important to you, and
    the resentment will build and build.  Resentment can be dangerous in 
    that we can no longer identify our true feelings if things get out of 
    hand.  This creates even a bigger mess in the long run. Just try
    and sort out what is really important, and save the arguments for
    those topics.  Try not to let the resentment start building, at
    least that's what works for me.  
    
    Willa 

    There are  two  issues here. The explicit one of how do you handle
    visits,  and  the  implicit one of how you handle disagreements. I
    agree  emphatically  with Mez that he isn't fighting fair. This is
    likely  to  be  the  hardest  issue.  It seems that family no only
    "isn't  that  important" to him, but is a real problem. Not taking
    an  excuse to visit his children shows an unwillingness to connect
    or  a  real  trauma having to do with family. I don't think you're
    likely to see him change much until he works out that issue.

    In the  meantime,  by  all means visit with your parents (and have
    them  visit  occasionally).  It's  important for children to spend
    time  with  their grandparents. It establishes continuity, and all
    that good stuff.

--David

    
    
        I don't think I understand.  What is it that makes him
    	angry? Does he not like your family for some reason?
    	Or doesn't he want to "waste" his weekend?
    
    	Nothing would keep me from visiting my family. Even though
    	I hate to argue, I would go anyway.  Doesn't he know that
    	this is important to you?  Can you maybe sit down and tell
    	him how important this is to you and ask him as a favor to
    	you to either go and be pleasent or stay at home and be 
    	pleasent when you get home?  Can you tell him that you 
    	understand ( I assume you do ) why he doesn't like to go there
    	but that it really is selfish for him to act like this?
    
    	IMHO I think you need to find out what is really bothering him about
    	your family.
    	
    	Good Luck,
    
    	Cathy     
    	

    I would also recommend _The_Dance_of_Anger_ by Harrier
    Goldhor Lerner.  She has a lot to say about how we get
    "stuck" in certain patterns of communication with other
    people, so that we don't/can't address the real issues.

    Is your husband maybe feeling threatened about the time you
    spend away from him?  Would it help to set aside some special
    time(s) just for the two of you?  You can't make him feel
    less threatened (only he can do that) but maybe you can
    understand whatever's bugging him...

    Good luck!

    -- Linda

    I concur with .9, from your husbands comments it sounds like he
    is jealous of or threatened by your attachment to your family.
    Since he isn't close to his own, he doesn't understand that you
    need them in addition to him, but that it doesn't take away from
    your love for him.  Doesn't he see that if you visit them it makes
    you happy, and that when you are happy, you are more loving?  (At
    least I always am)
    	Linda

    
    I aree woth .5. Go and visit with your family, and stop worrying
    about whether you are pleasing him or not. If he does not care and
    respect you enough to respect your decision, then why should you
     worry about angering him. After all, he is angering you by not
    allowing you to go. When you return, totally ignore the snide comments
    and behave like normal.
    
    Desryn.
    

    It's totally reasonable to expect him to respect your need / desire
    to see your family -- or any other need you feel strongly about,
    for that matter -- even if he doesn't happen to feel that need
    himself.  Even if he thinks it's totally silly *for himself*, he
    should be able to respect your right to need something he doesn't
    understand.
    
    However, there is something to beware of here.  It is *not* reasonable
    to expect him to *like* your need, or to fully understand it to the
    extent that he feels that same need himself. (I fall into this trap --
    if it doesn't apply to you, please don't take offense.  The following
    represent errors I would be likely to make, not accusations.  OK?)
    
    For example, expecting him to participate in finding a mutually 
    acceptable way for you to visit your family is reasonable.  Expecting
    him to live up to any resultant agreement and ACCEPT your visits with
    adult behavior, is reasonable.  Expecting him to BE HAPPY that you are
    visiting your family is not reasonable. Expecting him to WANT you to
    visit your family is not reasonable.  
    
    Expecting him to visit your family with you from time to time and
    to behave in a civilized fashion MAY be reasonable, if the two of
    you can agree on it.  Expecting him to LIKE those visits or to be
    HAPPY about going is not reasonable.
    
    Those times that I have forgotten the above guidelines have resulted
    in great hostility -- because I have overstepped getting my needs
    met and am now trying to legislate what someone else "should feel".
    (Ugh) 
    
    In any case, best wishes in your efforts to find an agreeable solution.
    Beth

    There are two notes in other conferences that I could find about
    this:
    
    womannotes-v1
    340 - Fighting Fair
    
    human_relations
    696 - Fair Fights and Happy Marriages
    
    -Jody
    

I think "Mom Critz," mentioned in .5, is the sanest person with the
heathiest outlook in the whole string.

If one of you must be "unhappy," let it be him.  So far, there is
nothing on his side to favor you and your child giving up the visits.

>    	Mom's always been one that did what she wanted. She will not
>    	allow the anger/bad temper of another ruin her visits.
    
Good for Mom Critz.

Rule Number One in my family was tiptoe around dad, and 
for God's sake, don't upset him.  Observing the rule never 
helped anyone much, including him.

    It seems to me that your husband is trying to force you to
    choose between him and your family. My position is that someone
    who cares about me (i.e. a friend) *does not* force me to choose
    between two parties. Someone who does is, by my definition, not
    my friend.
    
    I don't think that it's right to put the burden on your parents
    to have to always be the ones to drive 5 hours round trip in
    order to visit with you.
    
    I agree with a couple of the previous replies that perhaps he's
    jealous of the time you spend with your family -- that the weekends
    are when you are "supposed" to be spending with him. Personally,
    I don't see why he can't live without you for one weekend out of
    4-6.
    
    I also agree that it's unreasonable for him to *like* the situation,
    but he should at least accept it.
    
    --- jerry

    Sounds to me like you've got more of a problem than you think. 
    The notes that recommend you go visit and let him live with his
    anger could cause some more problems.  He is clearly ignoring your
    feelings by his actions concerning your family.  Don't compound
    the problem by ignoring his feelings of anger.  Two wrongs DO NOT
    make a right.  As a Digital employee, you are entitled to some
    counselling sessions through your medical plan.  It is only an opinion,
    but, someone or both of you have some deeper needs that are not
    being surfaced.  Some of the notes have speculated (probably acurately)
    that your husband has some reasons for not going, guilt about other
    children, resentment of his own family, etc.  You too may have some
    deeper feelings.  Why do you go to see your family so often?  Is
    there something you are going away from rather than going to?  Again,
    I'm just speculating,but, I absolutely adore my family.  We have
    a great time together.  Unfortunately, I just don't have the time
    to visit them every 4-6 weeks.  My work, scial, and family commitments
    are very hectic.  That's not a complaint, I like my life.
    
    Maybe one or both of you should take advantage of a little counselling.
    Half a dozen sessions (not years of therapy) can help us open up
    and face things about ourselves and others.  You may realize that
    the family issue is just the iceburg and your husband is totally
    intolerant about a lot of things.  Or maybe you are not being honest
    with yourself.  Whatever the issues, try some personal, confidential,
    unbiased, advice.  We can only comment on your side of the story.
    
    P.S. my sister's husband hates to visit our family.  He is a bit
    of a loner and we can be overwhelming at times.  She visits when
    she feels like it and he doesn't complain.  It can work if that's
    all the problem is.
    
    Good Luck,
    Kerry
    

    RE: .12
         IMO, your evaluation of what is reasonable is very well put.
    This is something I often forget also.  I have read your reply several
    times because it is very helpful in realizing what we should expect
    from our SO's.  
    
    Thanks,
     Willa