Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I've been dating a lead guitar from a Boston-based band for one
    year.  He doesn't "play out" much, but does rehearse and record
    at the studio.
    
    Musicians, as you know, are difficult to have a relationship with.
    They usually have a full-time job plus their "moonlighting"....but
    their priority is their music.  My boyfriend works full time at
    Roundup (a cassette/CD/record distribution company) and won't work
    anywhere else because he "wouldn't fit in."
    
    Something to be aware of--I'm sure you are already, though--is the
    drug/alcohol syndrome that usually accompanies musicians no matter
    what his background or intellect or style of music.
    
    I like the spare time.  Have you accompanied him to his gig?  Do
    you enjoy his music?  Are you INTO music?
    
    Linda

	 Just a thought to ponder....

	 what's the difference between dating someone who's in a band
	 as opposed to someone that is really into playing sports, or
	 really into doing crafts (sewing, quilting, etc) or something
	 like that?

	 As I see it, nothing..you just can't revolve your life around
	 that person.  I play softball 3-4 nights a week....if I was
	 dating someone, they would have to understand that.

         Fill your life with other things you enjoy during the time
         when he is not around, and you will probably find that your
         relationship is better for it and you appreciate the time you
         DO have together! 


	 random thots written in a hurry...

	 k

    Comment on .2 - Seeing someone who has other interests that not
    only drag through most evenings but also weekend evenings is very
    difficult - particularly if you work full-time during the day.
    
    As an example, I held a part-time job waitressing - which meant
    1-2 evenings M-Th, plus a Fri/Sat or Sun on top of that - and I
    worked full-time during the day - when do you have time to concentrate
    on your social/love life?
    
    Luckily for you, you participate in a sport that does not force
    you to be tied up most evenings, and is usually done within a
    reasonable hour so that you can do other things - like have a date,
    go out for drinks, whatever.  I think .0 has a tougher time arranging
    something that simple - especially at 2:00 a.m.
    
    
    
    
    

    .1
    
    I use to go... every weekend, but after awhile it started to get
    to me.   I do enjoy the music...  but again...  
    
    I also have this note in QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS 752..  I guess the
    nights are getting longer..  He'll leave around 6-7 and return home
    around 2-3am.  4-5 times a week starts to get to you.  We no longer
    have a social life.  I have two boys and it's hard to plan things
    around the band's schedule and theirs..  As you know, generally
    Saturday nights they tear down the equipment, so that's addional
    time after the club has closed, and how far away they've played.
    So Sunday is pretty much a rest and relaxation day for him.    
    
    .3
    I too am on a softball league, but the games only last hour and
    a half.  I've yet had a six hour game...  And I'm home before dark..
    He's also on summer leagues for basketball..  Schedule get's pretty
    tight at times...

    
    Oh, wow! a topic about which i actually *know* something...
    
    Being a musician (classical) first and a computer jock last, I must
    confess that there is something almost sick-obsessive about musicians. 
    I suspect the problem with the sports-enthusiast analogy is the idea
    of 'career'. You see, we all want to be 'successful'. We very quickly
    bend away from the idea of making music for fun or for pure pleasure.
    We're doing it because we want to eventually, someday real soon now,
    'make it'. I doubt that anyone reading this has any such pretensions
    about a career in softball or golf or whatever.
    
    What effect does this have on relationships? Well, I am mostly lucky, in
    that my spouse is also a musician and appreciates the art and can share
    my enthusiasm. But while she is reasonably content music-career-wise
    (she teaches public school music), I am terribly frustrated and neurotic
    (one would never know would one?). So, my concerns and my little problems
    tend to overwhelm her sense of individuality; *everything* in our life
    revolves around my 'career'. It is, far and away, the biggest problem
    in our relationship. The good news is that Lauren and I are quite aware
    of the problem and can usually keep it in check. Also, we both still
    have enough faith to believe that I eventually *will* acheive something
    that will pass for 'success' and then my musician-neurosis will
    magically disappear and everything will be sweetness and light.
    
    Advice? Insight? I don't really have any. Perhaps rule #2 applies
    (never hang out with anyone crazier than you are). But I fear that at
    some point the musician in question must decide which is more
    important, their 'career' or their relationship. And from experience I
    know that too often we choose badly.
    

I'm not a musician's SO, although I have been. I am a musician, though,
and I can definitely agree with the previous replies that music is
something you can get absolutely obsessive about, and I can see how this 
could be a problem for you if your SO is like that. It's _not_ like
playing sports, where you get home from a game at a reasonable hour
and can relax. I come home most nights after work and practice. If I'm too
tired to practice or have another committent, I get a little depressed. 
On weekends, I'm gigging. It's sort of like having two full-time jobs. I 
don't know how I'd even _find_ time for a committed relationship at this point.

Being involved with a non-musician can be a blessing though, because the
other person can add a certain stability and sanity to your life. You
don't need _two_ insane people in a relationship.

I've only had a few relationships, and only one of those with a non-musician. 
It worked because he loved music, understood it to some degree, and gave 
me lots of moral support (musicians are a manic-depressive breed) and
understanding. He even took a class in jazz history. Not to say you should
subsume yourself in his music. But it helps if you appreciate what he's
doing and can respect it, rather than feeling like you are just indulging
an eccentricity of his.

A musician friend of mine wrote a little "quiz" for musicians. One of
the questions was "Your boyfriend/girlfriend asks you 'which do you
love more - me or music?' What do you answer?". 

I don't really believe, as JWHITE said, that we have to choose between a
relationship and a career in music. You just have to realize that asking
a musician a question like the above is a little like asking "which do you
love more - me or life?"

Roberta

    
    I think maybe I'll hide in this file... I'm getting daggers thrown
    at me in Human_relations..  It seems I'm hearing from all the singers
    and ex-singers... I guess it looks as if I'm being pretty selfish..  
    
    Help??????

    
    I am sorry if our viewpoints are coming across as daggers. They
    were certainly not meant that way. I wish I could sit with you and
    talk, eye to eye, then you would not misread my words because my
    eyes and my voice would tell you there is no malice in them. Since
    I cannot do that...here is another attempt. It is a highly
    fictionalized rendition of a letter I once wrote.
    
    I would hope that it might let you see that our comments are intended
    only to help you see the real need that musicians have...to understand
    it before you let it destroy your peace. If you can understand it,
    perhaps it will have less power to inflict pain on you.
    
    ---
    
    Dear...
    
    I know you are consumed right now with feelings of anger and
    disappointment about the demise of your relationship. I can the
    see the sorrow and the despair in your eyes. If you can spare me
    a moment, let me try in writing [it seems in words we have long
    since ceased to communicate] to explain my pain at seeing you this
    way...and my decision to remove the reason for it...me.
    
    You see, I am not a whole person. Yes, I know that all of us need
    other people to really live, but I am talking a more basic lack
    here. There is a piece of my soul that sings...all the time. Sometimes
    it sings quietly and I can be with folks and they will never know.
    But often times it sings loudly and distracts my attention from
    those I love because I might *miss* the next piece of melody...or
    I might lose the one piece of harmony I really need. I cannot turn
    it off....if I cannot hear it, at least faintly, I panic and think
    it has gone away to leave me deaf...so I practice it daily,
    religiously, so that it will not falter or leave me from neglect.

    You ask me to choose...you or my music. I can only answer that you
    ask for something I cannot give. It is not that I cannot give it
    to *you*...it is that I cannot give it because I do not have it
    *to* give. Go away from my music? Walk deaf in a world I know is
    filled with sound? Leave the roar of the crowds and the silent
    satifaction of my compatriots when I am really *on*? Do you know
    what you ask? You ask that I not be *me* so I can love *you*, or
    so you are comfortable loving me...it's one of those games that
    nobody wins at.
    
    It breaks my heart to see you wince when I turn my eye inward to
    listen. It tears me apart to see you learn to hate the music...it
    is like watching you learn to hate me. When we first met, you loved
    my music...you would sit in the back and listen so intently. I remember
    your earnest conversations about lyrics and meaning and how special
    it was to be *special* for someone who did that kind of thing. And
    then, you loved me instead of my music. And now you think it is
    not so special to be as you so aptly phrased it "second in line
    behind a guitar". And you are threatened by the on-lookers who like
    to rub elbows. I remember so clearly how they used to amuse you,
    and how the fact that you saw the humor was one of the things that
    drew me to you in the first place.
    
    So before you really learn to hate...I am leaving. You feel pain,
    and I feel remorse. I cannot change; and neither can you. So, let's
    choose sweet memories instead of punisment.
    
    Love,
    
    Melinda
    
    
    

    
    Melinda, 
    
    Thank you...
    
    You brought tears to my eyes.... This is such a painful topic for
    me and my SO..  
    
    Hugs...to you!!!!
      
    
    Maria

    I can definitely relate to this. I used to be part of a group of
    musicians, though I wasn't in the "band" per se. 
    
    Music is not unlike sports (contrary to what Roberta said), in that in
    order to be reaaly good, you have to develop a sort of tunnel vision
    (unless you are overflowing with talent. Having done both sports and
    music, I can see many parallels between them.
    
    I sold my guitar to my younger brother. I loved to play; I just didn't
    have the time with my family and other interests and all. It wasn't
    fair to have that beautiful instrument sitting in the case all the
    time. I still play it just about every time I go to my parents' house.
    One time, my eldest daughter remarked to her mother that she felt
    really bad that I didn't have a guitar anymore- and she wanted to get me
    one for my birthday. I told her not to feel bad. I don't have time to
    make it worthwhile.
    
    To excel at music takes alot of time and energy. You definitely get a
    high when you get a particularly difficult passage down. You can feel
    the adrenaline flowing when things are happening.
    
    I feel the same energy when fishing. I love the sea- she is almost like
    a mistress to me. It is impossible to explain the excitement of a
    really large fishing crashing through the baits, or the sensation of a
    hookup. One of the best sensations is capturing a picture of your
    quarry before releasing it to live and reproduce, and perhaps lighten
    another hopeful fisherman's day. The special magic I feel when I am one
    with the ocean closely parallels the feeling I get when I play a really
    wild lead or get the sound exactly as on the record.
    
    re: Michele
    
     Many musicians (and sportsmen for that matter) are unable to strike a
    suitable balance between their passion and their personal life.
    (Suitable meaning one that is acceptable to both parties) It is best to
    recognize this early on, to minimize your sense of loss. A relationship
    with a musician is difficult. Some musicians can apportion their time
    reasonably well between their relationship and their passion; many
    cannot or will not. It  is most likely that your SO is one of the
    latter. It would be best to talk to him and explain what your
    expectations are. If yours and his are not compatible, the solution is
    obvious. You will end up with alot of pain if you try to change him and
    he does not want to be changed.
    
     I have made the choice that I was willing to give up playing for my
    wife. Many make a different decision. I could have continued to play
    and still be married if I didn't have so many other interests. 
    
     Good luck,
    
    The Doctah 

    RE .10, you don't fish for 2 hrs. every nite though, do you? :-)
    
    I think there's a big difference between the way you view music
    - as a hobby that you can stop doing and still be happy, and the
    way - I hate to say it - but the way real musicians feel who feel the
    way Roberta does that giving up music would be like giving up life.
    
    I lived with a musician (who felt the way Roberta does) for 2 1/2
    yrs. and the best way for me to understand it was to understand
    that even though I don't have anything in my life that I feel quite
    that way about I do have things/activities in my life that I realize
    I would not give up for any relationship because they mean too much
    to me.  When I was younger, 20 or so yrs. ago, I used to think that
    I would be willing to give up everything for "true love" and the "right
    man" but now I realize that's nonsense because my own life and my
    own interests are too important to toss aside on a mere whim, [like
    falling in love :-)].
    
    I think if that's the lifestyle of the person you love you either
    have to decide if it's worth it for you to adjust to it, or it isn't.
    
    Lorna
    

           
    (Sigh) Here we go again Mark. 
    
    Yes, Lorna is right. I don't think your view of music is that of 
    a "musician". You may have loved it, the way you love to fish or do 
    sports or whatever, but for a musician, there aren't ten other things 
    that interest you as much as music and that are interchangeable
    with it.  
    
    I have heard lots of people (including many engineers at DEC) say
    "I got used to having the money and the comforts of a full-time
    job, so I gave up on music." I usually keep my mouth shut, but inside
    I can't help thinking that if they really loved music that much,
    they couldn't have given it up. An interesting side note  is that
    I can generally tell what these people will play like before I hear
    them play. Ability is in direct proportion to dedication, in music
    as in all things. Some people can do music casually,
    but I didn't get the impression that .0's SO is one of them.
                                                    
    I don't think we're talking about someone who plays "every time
    I go to my family's house." We're talking about people who _have_
    to play _every_ day, and who go into withdrawal if they don't. I
    don't mean to be cruel, Doctah, but please realize that there _are_
    people like that, even if you don't consider yourself one of them.
    
    If I didn't think I was going to go back to music fulltime in the
    near future, I'd probably give up on life. Like I said, music _is_ life.
    
    Roberta
    
                                               

>    RE .10, you don't fish for 2 hrs. every nite though, do you? :-)
    
    If there were any way I could... But I have a number of other interests
    as well (even some related ones). I tie my own flies for fly fishing.
    Fishing tackle, especially that used for the larger species of
    pelagics, must be kept in tip top shape- a time consuming task to be
    sure.
    
>    I think there's a big difference between the way you view music
>    - as a hobby that you can stop doing and still be happy, and the
>    way - I hate to say it - but the way real musicians feel who feel the
>    way Roberta does that giving up music would be like giving up life.
    
    I used to feel that way. Music is still important in my life, though
    now instead of playing it myself, I listen to others. I never really
    had enough time to devote to it anyway- which is why it was not quite
    at obsession stage. Engineering school takes alot out of you, then with
    work and all. One of the things that kept music from being an obsession
    with me was my love of the outdoors. There are only so many things you
    can multiplex into 24 hrs. I simply ran out of time. Before i went to
    college, I had plenty of time to devote to music- then it was almost 
    an obsession. I call it a passion, because it is something that you
    really love to do and is a part of your essence. My essence has changed
    over time, and my values have become modified- especially since the
    addition of my family.
    
    It is largely an issue of priorities. If I had my way, I'd fish 365
    days a year. It is a constant challenge- and I don't like to back down
    from a challenge. I actually could fish that often, but it would be at
    the expense of my family, and that is just not worth it to me.
    
    I don't think you have to give "everything up" for your SO. I think
    that you do have to make some compromises. Some people are not willing
    to compromise their passions.
    
    The Doctah

    
    .10...
    
    Doctah, thanks for entering that. I think all of us occaisionally
    forget that there other passions besides our own. Of course *ours*
    are [better? bigger? worse? grander?] than anyone else's but...[grin]
    
    .11...
    
    Lorna, I keep finding myself agreeing with a lot of what you say.
    I guess I don't have the hard edge I see in your replies about this
    anymore....but I sure relate.
    
    And I guess I would have to disagree a bit about the nature of a
    passion defining its impact...[use of the word even apologetically
    "real"]...for instance...there's a passion for music and then there's
    a passion for "playing"....and then there's....etc.
    
    I think that perhaps the real "greats" of any genre are indeed "driven"
    but I also think that there is a whole lot of room left on the spectrum
    between total immersion and hobby....Some of us do indeed have the
    ability to turn the damper down....that does not make the gift or
    the passion any less full of wonder....bittersweet? maybe.
    
    I myself would hesitate to define another's passion as paltry only
    on the basis of my own...or even my perception of another's. Maria's
    "passion" for her children and her "pain" over the relationship
    is [from where I sit here in the bleachers...] as imposing a passion
    as her SO's music...it is merely different in nature. And the Doctah's
    passion for fishing and the sea...[and his ability to put aside
    his music]...is certainly as imposing as my *inability* to do so.
    I *think* it is merely the flip side of the same coin.
    
    I *think* it is the folks [like the Doctah maybe?] who manage to
    balance the coin on edge that get along the best. Those of us whose
    coins are always heads or tails are forever losing the bet [a
    statistically accurate] 50% of the time.  Hmmmm?
    
    ---
    
    About passions...[such a good analogy Doctah!]...it occurs to me
    that the only truly frightening state of existance might be to be
    without passions...Hmmm?    
    
    Melinda
                           

    �
    re:.12
    exactly! my thoughts expressed far more coherently than i ever could...
    

    
    re: .-1
    
    Uh, my name's Roberta. And you're very welcome.
    
    Roberta
    

    In a way, it's rather like being involved with a workaholic.  The
    concern that's been voiced is not so much "I'm jealous of his interest"
    but "I'm jealous of the time he spends."  Music is his consuming
    interest, work is a necessary evil (!), and the relationship gets
    pushed to third place in terms of time and attention.  How many
    people would be content to take third place with someone they care
    about?  And how many people could do it and really be happy about
    it?  Not many, I suspect.
    
    In order to survive, a relationship needs compromise so that the
    needs of all parties can be met enough to keep everyone happy. 
    An obsessive interest cuts down the room for compromise.  Any
    compromise will most likely involve more give on one side than another.
    No doubt there are people who would be able to accept that and be
    content with it, but I'm not one of them.  (Then again, I'm on record
    as being unabashedly and unreservedly selfish.)

    I'm with Roberta on this. I'm not a "musician", though I play music,
    because I'm not *driven* to it.
    
    A writer, I pretty sure it was Harlan Ellison, said of writers (para-
    phrased):
    
    	"A writer isn't someone who wants to write; a writer is
    	someone who *has* to write."
    
    I think musicians are the same way, or those in any similar artist
    endeavor.
    
    I think telling a musician "it's either the music or me" would be
    like asking a mother to give up one of her children.
    
    --- jerry

    
    	Re .10-
    
    >with a musician is difficult. Some musicians can apportion their time
    >reasonably well between their relationship and their passion; many
    >cannot or will not. It  is most likely that your SO is one of the
    >latter. 
    
    	How can you make this ascertation, oh great Doctah of "I dont
    have the time for it" chin? How can you speak of the "likelihood"
    of another person's behavior, unless you have observed *them* over
    time, which is something you claim you have very little of to begin
    with? I seriously doubt you've done this, for the specific case of 
    .0's husband...
    
    	Perhaps you might stop scaring people with your expressions
    of certainty, which are really merely conjectures on your part!
    You paint a VERY black and white, all or nothing picture of the
    situation, which suggests a most inflexable arrangement. It is
    this kind of thinking which can lead to the destruction of an
    otherwise fine relationship - via trully *lousy* reasoning - I 
    believe.
    
    	Joe Jas

>    	How can you make this ascertation, oh great Doctah of "I dont
>    have the time for it" chin? How can you speak of the "likelihood"
>    of another person's behavior, unless you have observed *them* over
>    time, which is something you claim you have very little of to begin
>    with? I seriously doubt you've done this, for the specific case of 
>    .0's husband...
    
    Well, Joe, I am forming my opinion based on the base note, .4 and .7.
    And unless I misunderstood, they are not married. Perhaps you'd do
    better to pay better attention while reading. :-)
    
>    Perhaps you might stop scaring people with your expressions
>    of certainty, which are really merely conjectures on your part!
    
    Unless the English language has changed recently, "most likely" is not
    an expression of certainty.
    
>    You paint a VERY black and white, all or nothing picture of the
>    situation, which suggests a most inflexable arrangement.  
    
    Actually, I think she is the one who is telling us of her experiences
    here, and they seem to be rather black and white. It *appears* that her
    SO has an obsession or consuming interest with music that he cannot or
    will not compromise with- though the base noter does not tell us the
    extent to which they have discussed the situation. It maybe that he
    doesn't know he's bothering her by spending so much time away.
    
    Sorry you don't agree with my assessment. Time will tell who's correct.
    Have a nice Friday,
    
    The Doctah

    
    .21 
    
    My SO and I have talked about this topic until we're blue in the
    face.  I'm hoping there's someway to compromise.  But with singing
    there doesn't seem to be.  Either you sing out or you don't...
    Either I stay or I leave?  That's the real question...  
    
    I too have a dream, I would love to move to Atlanta.... possibly
    relocate.  Is this different?   I've "kinda" put this on hold, until
    we can come to decision...  Honestly.....until the band becomes famous
    or breaks-up...  I suppose this is my fault... If I really wanted
    to go, I'd go, but I can't.  I can't just leave him... "Sorry babe,
    got to go"....  "This "IS" my  dream"....  I've been yearning to
    go ever since we last visited there two and a half years ago..  I've 
    checked into everything...housing, daycare, jobs, cost of living...etc.
    I also have family down there.  He's expressed an interest in going 
    as well... but doesn't know what to do about his band... So we
    WAIT.... until one way or another something happens with the band.
         
    Am I really being THAT selfish???  Our lives revolves around the
    band...  In every aspect...   As I mentioned earlier this didn't
    come about until two years into the relationship...  When the band
    started, "I" encouraged him to go, because it wasn't fair that he
    make a commitment and then bag them.  Imagine that!!!  Neither one
    of us had any ideal this would consume soooooo much time...At least
    I didn't.  The other band members had all previously been in bands.
    I thought since he sang around the house, he would enjoy this...  
    (I know what you're thinking) I encourage him to go, and now I wish 
    he never joined...  EXACTLY!!!  I could kick myself in the butt!!!!
                                            
    He's been told by friends, the band members, and the audiance that
    he makes the band.  If he should quit...the band will desolve..
    That's alot of guilt as well...  He'll admit sometimes he wishes
    he wasn't in it...  
                        
    

    
    
    I really feel for the spot you're in. I often wonder if I'll ever
    be able to make a commitment to someone, knowing that "settling
    down" and having kids would mean compromising on the music.
    
    One thing I think is pretty clear, though, is that he shouldn't
    stay with the band out of guilt. The truth is most bands don't make
    it, rock singers (no offense) are a dime a dozen, and your SO should 
    do what he wants, not what the guys in the band want. Yes, he made a
    commitment, but that doesn't mean for the rest of his life. Two
    years is a decent amount of time to commit to a band. If he quits,
    the other guys in the band will live.
    
    As far as him loving what he's doing and not wanting to give it
    up, I can't say much. Has he checked out the music scene in Atlanta?
    I know nothing about it, but maybe you and he could discuss the
    possibility of him finding a band down there (rock bands, like singers,
    are a dime a dozen. Not to put anyone down; it's just a fact).
    
    Roberta
    
    
    

         Oh my...
         
         First off...Roberta....words of wisdom. Noone could
         have said it any better.
         
         ...
         
         Maria,

         Sounds like a lot of heartache to me. I wish I could be pithy
         and drop some tid bit of advice your way....but....

         Well....

         I guess hugs and hope will have to do.

         Both to you...

         Melinda

    re: .22
    
    Just one quick thought here (I have several, but am on too tight
    a schedule right now to enter them):
    
    If he really is the spark plug of the band, finding another shouldn't
    be terribly difficult.  Rock singers *are* a dime a dozen, but good
    ones aren't (sez I as our band goes through the lead singer audition
    cycle yet one more time).
    
    And, though it isn't Boston (an admittedly rich musical scene),
    "Hot Lanta" is a pretty happenin' town for music; perhaps, if he
    could spend a week or two checking out the scene there, there might
    be some room for movement.
    
    Steve

    
    	I agree with .25 -
    
    	Perhaps guitarists, *good* guitarists, are a dime a dozen. I'd not 
    make that blanket claim about good lead singer/front persons. In that
    case I suspect it's the *bands* that are a dime a dozen - a good lead 
    singer/front can pick 'n choose whatever "band" they would like to
    work in. Most bands would be _damn_ glad to have a "good" one
    too, because they know this.
    
    	As a consequence of what you said others have told you about
    his ability as a singer (makes the band) it seems (only) logical
    that he could - easily - join up with a different outfit in some
    other part of the country. Georgia gave birth to REM and the 
    'Satelites, to name two recent "successful" bands from that area.
    It could be just as good as Boston, as far as the music scene goes...
    
    	If he compromised, quit this band, moved to Georgia with you,
    then joined up with another one, would that be _end of issue_ for
    you? Or would your feelings just be brought full circle when he started
    spending a significant amount of his free time with the "new band"? 
    	
    	Be careful with your answer, really try to discover how you'd
    *really* feel! This is _very_ important, considering your dillema.
    If you're sure you'd feel the same way anyway towards it, it'd be my 
    guess that "moving" would be a poor solution. In fact, I'd guess under 
    those circumstances doing so would just make things worse for the
    relationship. He'd come to resent you for feeling that way, despite
    his agreeing to be "flexable in the relationship" and give up his band
    here to move to Georgia with you.
    
    	Best of luck to you - 
    
    	Joe Jas
          

      I see this as an issue of time and priority. That won't change
      with a new band in a new location. However, if you move near your
      family maybe you won't need so much of his time and will be more
      content because you would have family to fill some of your needs.

      This is an age old problem for soldier's and doctor's spouses. Or
      for anyone married to someone with a passion. You often read in
      biographies of famous persons that their interpersonal
      relationships suffered. There is only so much time and energy
      available to a person, if you need a lot of someone else's time
      you better find another man. I would never want to be in the
      position of making someone give up their dream for me. liesl