Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I often wonder what it is in my make-up that does not allow me to
    *both* forgive and forget.  And that seems to be the secret for
    making some things work again that were once torn apart.  I have
    read/heard that in really forgiving, one does put it aside and forget
    what occurred, moving on to build anew.  
    
    I find I can forgive, once I have worked out the whys and wherefores,
    but I rarely have been able to forget enough to try again.  
    
    Perhaps that is the major factor needed in beginning again with
    the same person.  
    
    One thing I thought about when you wrote 
    <...in the far off future when he has decided we "might" be able
    to get back together.
    
    Does that mean he expects you to wait upon him making a decision
    as to that effect?  Does that mean he is offering you the opportunity
    to "hope" for his return?  Or does that mean he has not removed
    his two feet from the door, holding it open a crack...and if so,
    is he doing that for *you* or perhaps because, until he decides
    to let go absolutely, he is holding it cracked for *himself* in
    case he does not find what he wants by leaving?
    
    As wicked as it sounds, I am beginning to believe that I dealt better
    with my husband's death than the break-up of my past relationship,
    and I think I prefer a situation where the body can't keep popping
    up at inopportune moments!  At least when its gone, it offers little
    hope of ever coming back!
    
    M

    I'm sorry, Barb. I did want you to know that I'll be saying 
    a prayer for you. Every once and a while I read a poem that
    you wrote. It gives me strength. I somehow wish I could give 
    some back to you.
    
    Kate
    

    Oy, Barb, how rotten for you!  I have no advice or info to offer, just
    many many hugs.  
    
    						=maggie 

    Warm thoughts, Barb.
    
    I think one of the sadder things an SO has said to me, after a breakup
    (most often instigated by them) is "Oh, I was wrong.  I do want
    to be with you.  I never realized what we had.  We were so special."
    
    I have not, to this point, taken any of the 3 up again.  The
    intense relationship I had that ended last May was very special,
    and I am currently hearing things such as "we were so special" 
    "nobody could be like us"  and "I miss you so much" from my XSO.
     I don't know what to do.  We're good friends right now, but I don't
    think I want to get into a relationship.  And I don't know if I
    could ever feel the same about him....there would always be memories
    of how it ended, and there would always be that question in my mind
    if some day he would come up to me again and break it off...after
    days, or months, or years....
    
    -Jody
    
    p.s.  I agree with the "don't wait around for him" bit...you're
    way too special to put on a shelf.
    

    Thanks for all the caring, friends!  I appreciate it, and am actually
    doing relatively well considering the fact that there was no fight
    and no real reason for the split other than he can't stand my 10
    year old son, but when one person wants out, any excuse will do
    and life *does* go on.  Marilyn asked if he expects me to wait,
    and from everything I've seen or heard from him thus far, I would
    say "yep!" that's exactly what he expects.  He still seems to want
    me as a wife, but at a distance; i.e. all the convenience and none
    of the responsibility or fuss.  I consider it a most interesting
    way of being married;)  The strange part is the disappearance of
    the "magic" between us--at least on my part, evidently I still evoke
    those feelings in him.  I figured it has something to do with the
    feeling of betrayal, selfishness, refusal to work things out, etc.
    but I don't really know for sure; that's why I asked my friends
    who *have* put things back together if they've ever recaptured that
    specialness and, to a person (women), they've said "no!"  If I decide
    that I would ever want to put things back together (which I haven't
    at this point--it's still too early), I don't know if I could live
    with "just another man" who isn't special to me or could make me
    feel that I am the most wonderful woman he's ever known.  It's
    something I value in a relationship and now it's gone...
    
    Hangin' Tough,
    Barb

    If your real problems stem from his dislike of your son, maybe you
    should try "Step Parents Association" group or facsmillie...  
    Especially if you decide to re-try the relationship.  I know step
    children/parent problems are a real kicker, I was in the same
    position myself.  
    
    Even though you're not married, I'd still give them a shot.
    
    Anna
    

    I can only offer a slight insight from my minimal experience. When
    I've broken a relationship or had one broken for me (never marriage)
    and we've never been able to "find" the magic or whatever in an
    attempt to try again. 
    
    I think it stems from a specialness being destroyed when one partner
    broke the relationship the first time. I would say it would be like
    dropping a delicate crystal vase and having it shatter. You gather
    all of the parts and begin to glue it with superglue. Little slivers
    are never recovered, the pieces don't quite fit the way they did
    as when they were whole. When you're done, surprise!! It will hold
    water but it's just not the same. It's not as pretty as when it was
    new and the value has diminished. What made it special was its
    wholeness and not the sum of its parts. Relationships are very similar.
    They depend on that delicate wholeness, and once that's been violated
    it can never be the same.
    
    I feel most sorry for the 10 year old. He must have sensed the dislike
    long before it was apparent to your husband or you. He will feel
    the guilt for breaking up your happiness. That's the most critical
    thing at this time. He'll need your reassurance that he's still
    special to you.
    
    As to the man. He needs a bit of help in recognizing why he dislikes
    the boy so much that he's willing to give YOU up. 
    
    Ken

    BARB:
      I WAS JUST WANDERING THROUGH AND WAS CAUGHT BY THE DEEP FEELINGS
    OF YOUR SITUATION AND THE SUPPORT OF YOUR FRIENDS.I HAVE BEEN ON
    BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN . BETRAYED AND BETRAYER . I KNOW I CAN'T
    ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ,HOWEVER I CAN OFFER SOME PROFESSIONAL INSIGHT.
    THE REAL ISSUE IS DO YOU WANT TO MAKE AND KEEP THIS RELATIONSHIP
    GOING? ONLY YOU HAVE THAT ANSWER. ARE YOU TOTALLY HONEST WITH YOURSELF
    AS TO THE REAL REASON FOR THE SEPARTION? IS THERE ANY DIALOGUE ON
    THE DEEPEST OF UNDERLAYING FEELINGS OR 
    RESENTMENTS . I KNOW THAT THE HUMAN MIND HAS A LONG MEMORY,HOWEVER
    LOVE IS A GREAT ERASER . WE COULDN'T LIVE WITH EACH OTHER IN CLOSE
    QUARTERS W/O A GREAT DEAL OF COMPROMISE THAT IS ONLY AVAILABLE THROUGH
    LOVE.
    MANY PEOPLE SEE THESE SITUATIONS AS CHALLENGES TO THEIR EGOS AND
    CANNOT EVER MAKE ALLOWANCES ,BECAUSE IT MEANS LETTING A LITTLE BIT
    OF EGO GO AND WE ARE ALL TAUGHT THAT EGO IS SACRED.THE BIBLICAL
    GOLDEN RULE IS MOST APPRPRIATE IN RELATIONSHIPS. "DO UNTO OTHERS
    AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU." THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF
    FORGIVENESS IN THERE.
    BARB, I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST WHATEVER THE OUTCOME.YOUR FRIENDS
    ARE WITH YOU.
    

    Sounds to me like your husband wants to wait it out until your
    son is old enough to move out on his own.
    
    I have no advice to offer. I do note however, that you've not
    said much about how *you* feel about this. Would you prefer a
    divorce, a sticking together, this indefinite separation?
    
    --- jerry

    Re: Jerry-                                   
                                                 
    I'm still too freshly out of the relationship to make a definite
    decision at this point.  For the moment, I'm content (if such can
    be said) to leave things as a separation.  I need more time and
    distance to lend the perspective I need to come to a realistic
    conclusion.  Most of the time, I feel that it's over and treat it
    as such.  When I see Michael, I'm pleasant but somewhat distant.
    He still can't seem to see things as totally different and, frankly,
    I don't feel it's my job to try to show him.  I'm working on myself,
    being kind to myself, doing good things for myself, and doing my
    best to get back to "normal" so my children have a mother who is
    cheerful and optimistic instead of someone who's agonizing over
    a loss I couldn't prevent.  Thus far, I'm doing an excellent job
    with very few down times.  When there are down times, I get the
    feelings out (thanks to a lot of good friends who care and will
    listen), cry a little, then "pick myself up, dust myself off, and
    start all over again."  I'm tough with myself there.  It's okay
    if I fall, but I make myself get up and go on.  I've had to do it
    so many times in my life that I simply do it automatically, and
    each time, it's not quite as hard as the time before.
    
    Somewhere inside me, there's hope for a fresh start and perhaps,
    in time, a new relationship, but I'm also realistic enough to realize
    that I can't plan on a new relationship, so I'm building a life
    that will include the children while they're still around, and will
    still provide me pleasure when they are not.  I don't count on my
    current non-relationship to do anything, and I will no longer spend
    either the time or energy or revive something that may never exist
    again.
    
    Barb
   

	Barb,

	This is a difficult situation for you to be in - please make
	sure that you take care of your self.

	My SO Mark and I have been together off and on for the past
	6 almost 7 years.  About three years ago we broke up but 
	remained friends.  After about a year apart we started building
	the relationship again but there is a really big problem - 
	we don't really TRUST each other.  I am not sure if we will 
	ever really TRUST each other, I am not sure if we ever really
	did.  This is the specialness that was never very strong in
	our relationship and I am not sure whether it is a good or 
	bad thing that it is not strong.

	Mark and I are facing another critical time in our relationship
	and that the relationship is changing.

	Prior relationships for me have never ever been able to survive
	the break-up.  I don't know why this one seems to be able to.

	My only advice is that you do what you need to do for your
	survival and decide what you can live with and what you can 
	live without.  This may mean that you are willing to wait
	a few months or it may mean that you can not deal with this
	type of unknown for any amount of time no matter how small.

	_peggy

		(-)
		 |

			I can wait a loonnng time for something I want,
			I can not wait for something I need.

    Re .5

    >doing relatively well considering the fact that there was no fight
    >and no real reason for the split other than he can't stand my 10
    >year old son, but when one person wants out, any excuse will do

    Barb,

    I realise that your note was entered months ago and therefore this
    reply is somewhat academic, but I'd still like to say that coping
    with someone else's children is not as simple as you seem to think.

    I was involved with a man whose son I couldn't stand. For me, this 
    was certainly a 'real reason' to split up with him, not an 'excuse'
    and it certainly wasn't easy. Basically, I split up with him because 
    I couldn't see any other way of retaining (what was left of) my 
    sanity.

    I do hope things worked out for you in the end, together or alone.

    June.