Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I once dated a married man right up to the minute I found out he
    was married.  No clues.  He wore no wedding ring, made no references
    to a wife or kids, wore wrinkled shirts (a wife would have ironed
    them if she'd been a "good" wife, right? :->).  I dropped him like
    a hot potato.
    
    Dondi  who_was_madder_than_a_wet_hen_and_coulda_spit_tacks

    I haven't found topics anywhere that deal directly with this issue,
    but related ones include:
    
    (in this file) topic 113 - dating married women
    
    womannotes-v1, topic 234  Love Affair
    
    in QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS, topic 265, Sex With Others While Married
    (which may include viewpoints from the other side of the coin)
    
    -Jody
    
    

    
    Maybe it's because if the lady concerned is looking for a
    "non heavy" relationship then married men are *almost*
    guaranteed not to push the commitment angle too far.
    
    So says a girlfriend of mine.
    At least, that's how it starts.
    The hitch is that, having entered into the affair for that reason,
    my friend then found to her horror that *she* wanted to push the
    commitment angle i.e. she fell in love.
    
    Voila - the classic situation.
    

    my mother always said that i should date married men because they're
    motivated to be more discreet. that said, i don't know too many
    women who've dated married men, but i do know a few women who've
    dated married women. 
    
    liz

    Re .0, some women may not be angels themselves.  If you make something
    available (yourself) how can you blame people (women) for taking
    advantage of it (you).  Like .3 said, some women may be just out
    for a good time and if they think you're attractive and you make
    yourself available, maybe they think the fact that you're married
    is your problem and not theirs.
    
    Lorna
    

    I recall reading and article on this subject some months ago.
    
    Some of the reasons that I recall were, less chance of the
    man having VD or AIDS, (which I find debatable), the freedom,
    i.e. he doesn't want to be around all the time, lack of
    committment, and a larger pool of men to draw on.
    
    Bonnie

         We all knew I was gonna wade in here, didn't
         we????[grin]
         
         ---
         
         I really don't see a problem with married women or
         men dating [strange word I think to choose...it wouldn't
         have been mine]...but I think that *rules* are important
         if one decides to do so.
         
         *Rules* mean that everybody knows up front who is
         married to whom and who is or is not interested in
         changing that status.
         
         *Rules* mean that everybody agrees to the limitations
         of the relationship up front...like does it or does
         it not include sex, or does it revolve around one
         particular activity....[a shared hobby...]
         
         *Rules* mean that spouses "know" about dates.
         [Yes, indeedy...that one smarts....Hmmmm?]
         
         *Rules* mean that the "instant" one member starts
         to have doubts about the above rules or wants to
         "negotiate" a change in agreement...that member speaks
         up. If that means one person walks away...OK...that's
         what it means.
         
         *Rules* mean that you take responsibility for your
         actions. If you want to do "A", and you can do so
         without hurting "B"...then as far as I am concerned,
         go ahead. But you can't change your mind later and
         "confess"....you did it....you live with it.
         
         I full-well understand that 90% of the population
         of the US thinks my view on this is not only crazy
         but morally demented...[grin]....but, well, it works
         for me....and my friends....and my husband of 20
         some odd years.
         
         Melinda

    Re .7, I don't think it's "crazy" or "morally demented."  I think
    it's practical and realistic.  I think if we were all brought up
    to accept this type of marriage as the norm that we'd all be living in
    a much more jolly (and less sneaky) world today. (A few more of us
    might wind up staying married for 20 yrs, too)

    Lorna
    

    
    re:.0
    gee, i've been trying to get this one particular single woman to go out
    with me (happily married boy-o) for years...
    

    A couple of the people I've been known to pal around with have been
    married men or men in monogamous relationships, and their wives or
    partners haven't been included in a number of our activities.  I
    wouldn't call it "dating" though, because it all takes place within
    the context of friendship; I'm also friends with their wives/partners.
    
    Why would women date married men?  Well, I suspect there are two
    categories of women in this situation:  women in love and women
    not in love.  A woman in love with a married man might decide that
    bits of time with him are better than lots of time with someone
    else.  A woman not in love might be glad not to have to worry about
    the commitment issue.

    I'm not a FWO (wrong gender), but I'll answer anyway with a note I
    posted just a short while ago. 
    
    --------------------------------- 
    
           <<< RAINBO::$2$DJA6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V2.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 113.6                    Dating married women                        6 of 6
CURIE::MOEDER                                        18 lines   2-MAY-1989 12:36
               -< I understand, but that doesn't make it right >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Sometimes a relationship is far less than supportive and yet the 
	options open to either party are limited (to say the least). 
	Children might be involved, separate living might be
	unacceptable, or there might be some other (partially) valid
	reason. 

	While I do not say that such meanderings are OK, I do understand
	why someone, either male or female, might seek some form of
	companionship with the *full* knowledge that there are NO
	commitments from *either* side. 

	Such a person might just be seeking a few moments of adult 
	conversation (where the result is not another argument), they 
	might just need a few moments away from the spouse or just need 
	someone to smile at and be smiled back to.
	
					Charlie........

>         *Rules* mean that everybody agrees to the limitations
>         of the relationship up front...like does it or does
>         it not include sex, or does it revolve around one
>         particular activity....[a shared hobby...]
         

	
	I use to date married men many, many years ago.  At that time
	it was because I wanted the freedom both in time and what I did 
	Also I did not want to get into a serious relationship.  Unfortunately,
	I ended up in love with a married man & it was the most painful
	relationship I have ever had.  I definitely advise against it.

	I've never felt that a totally monogamous realitonship was 
	neccessarily the best way to go.  This is abit of an aside but 
	I never minded a mate being attracked to or even having sex with 
	someone else if it was done with class.

	In my opinion that means that I would still come first.  I would
	not be left at a party because he found someone else.  That he
	would still pay attention to me when we were together, he can
	make dates on his own time.  AND number one rule was that the
	encounter be more of a one-night-stand and not a full blown love 
	affair.
	
	I think that the married person is under alot of strain, especially
	if they try being honest and caring to both people. To keep balance
	and communication with one person in a supportive, sexual relationship
	(as opposed to a parent-child or friend-friend) is difficult enough.
	Plus I don't know how they find the time to carry on an affair.  


	Jayna

    The following response is from a member of our community who wishes to
    remain anonymous at this time.

    						=maggie

    ===================================================================


    Why do women date married men? 

    There seem to be a range of reasons. I have a very close friend who 
    has been in therapy for 4 years dealing with her inability/fear of 
    commitment -- one of the key symptoms for her is dating only married
    men.  In her words, they're "safer" since there's no hope for
    commitment.  The pain, though, of falling in love and having limits on
    the relationship  has been difficult to live with.

    As for me, I've never been able to figure out the reason. I dated a
    couple of married men while in college -- it never lasted long, and I
    think there was a certain thrill to the secrecy of it.

    But then I met the man of my dreams -- who happened to be married. He
    asked me to go to lunch, just as friends, but within days we were madly
    in love. It was the most painful and most lovely time of my life. 6
    months later he left his wife, and we were married 2 years later.

    I wonder often why I agreed to go out with him, knowing that he was
    married and "off limits". I tend to believe it was meant to be -- we
    are such soul mates that one way or the other we would have met.

    Would I do it again? That, too, I wonder often. As much as I love this
    man, the pain I saw him go through, and the pain his children have gone
    through is difficult to ignore. It has also not been easy for me to
    become "instant stepmom".  In my dreams I wish he'd been unmarried when
    we met -- it would have made things much easier. We could have
    concentrated our energies on us, rather than battling the
    unpleasantness of his divorce.  I also wonder whether he would have
    stayed in a loveless marriage if he had not met me.... he had been
    pretty miserable for years but not enough to do anything about it. 

    I don't recommend dating someone married, but I am less likely to judge
    others after what I've been through. We each have to decide why we do
    something, and then whether it's healthy for us to continue. In my
    case, I got the best part of my life, but paid a tremendous emotional
    cost in the process.

    Five years back (before I was married) I dated my now husbands best
    friend "Frank".  Frank was engaged when we first started to date,
    but I being "In Love" with him and having a wonderful time together
    let the relationship go on.  I dated him even after he married.
    It was indeed a strange relationship, his fiance told him that she
    was pregnant with his baby, he wasn't 100% sure the baby was his
    but "wanted to do the right thing" since he grew up without a father.
    I stood by him and continued to see him on a regular basis.  As
    a matter of fact, he told his fiance the night before their wedding
    they guys were giving him a bachelor party but we spent the night
    together and the next morning he left me in his tux and headed for
    the church.  Like I said the relationship last for quite some time
    after the wedding but then I lost interest when his wife became
    pregnant again (this one was his).  I ended up dated his friend
    Bill and eventually we married.  We still keep in touch with Frank
    and he has admitted to us recently that the first child isn't his
    and that he screwed up his life by getting married, he isn't happy;
    but Bill and I have a wonderful marriage.  I got the better end
    of the deal and am glad I didn't hang on any longer.