Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    If this isn't too rude so soon after her death... Lucille Ball was
    talented, but I prefer her films to her TV work.  I've not doubt
    the woman herself was independent-minded as well as smart and funny.
                                                     
    BUT-- I don't love "Lucy Ricardo".  The "I Love Lucy" show perpetuated
    a lot of bad stereotypes about women, men and how they relate. 
     
    Lucy wasn't independent (always asking Ricky for money for a new
    dress), her ideas never worked out to her advantage, and she was
    frequently a manipulating scheme-er (is that a word?). 
                                                     
    Yes, it could be funny, but somehow she always got "punished" by the
    end of the 30 minutes (didn't get the dress, didn't get to join in
    Ricky's floor show--or made a fool of herself doing so... ).  In the
    end, she always made me feel really kind of sad. 
                                    
    Helen                           
                

    I remember Lucy when she was a musical star.  She played in a musical
    called "DuBarry Was a Lady" and her marvelous leg showing sexily
    out the side-split of her gown was the come-on ad.  And although
    I didn't see her last month on TV, I understand that same gorgeous
    gam [at 77] was showing from a similar gown.  
    
    And it was at her insistence that her pregnancy we "allowed" to
    be part of the TV series "I Love Lucy" in the 50s..  Before that, any large
    bellied woman was shot from the waist up.  No wonder kids continued
    to believe women found babies under rose bushes!
    
    She was marvelous, larger-than-life at times, but never seemed to
    be that class of "star" which gives off the aura that they are
    untouchable.  
    
    She was of the era of Judy Canova, Joan Davis, Carol Lombard, Fanny
    Brice, and the great Gracie Allen.  I remember them all from radio
    and the movies.  All gone.  But old female codgers like myself still
    amuse ourselves over their antics when we play "do you remember..."  
    
    They are all probably now with Her trying to out do each others jokes
    and routines.  
    
    M

    
    I think you have to look at I Love Lucy in the context of 1950's
    society and 1950's situation comedy. For that time, it was unusual
    to portray a woman on TV who thought for herself and tried to get
    around having to "obey" her husband by using her wits.
    
    To say the show was sexist (not that you used this word; I may be
    inferring incorrectly), is a little like complaining that Abe Lincoln
    was a racist because he said he opposed full integration.
    You have to look at the time and context.
    
    Roberta

    I Love Lucy!  I liked her class.  Not like the gutter mouth comediannes
    of today.  As an example,  I find Married With Children about as tastless
    as day old bread.  Talk about exploitation.  At least Lucy's
    hairbrained schemes were funny (actually funny).  In the MWC show
    women are presented as over sexed, dumb, money grabbing, etc, etc,
    etc.  The children are portrayed as wild, unmannered.  The husband
    is about as funny as a dish rag.  Give me I Love Lucy over this
    trash any day.
    
    Back to Lucy.  The media reported that early in her career, 
    she was actually discouraged by her coach to pursue an 
    acting career.  I am personally glad she made movies.  One of my
    favorite shows is with her and Bob Hope (My favorite Brunette?) 
    She will surely be missed.
    
    Louise
                                                            

    
    I have to agree with .1. I was there there and that era is one to which
    I give much thought. The thing that really bothered me about it is that
    her schemes were labeled "hair-brained". She was frequently referred to
    as the dizzy red-head. Competence was NOT one of the adjectives used.
    
    How did she get her way ? Deceit, coaxing, fairly submissive behavior.
    These qualities were very much in line with traditional stereotypes.
    For the life of me, I can't see how Lucy would be any kind of role
    model.
    
    She was never portrayed as a particularly bright character nor can I
    remember many of my elementary school girls friends saying, when I grow
    up I want to be like Lucy. I know I didn't.
    
    I was a little disturbed when I heard her referred to as being a
    feminist.
    
    That same era did have one particulary great woman role model for girls
    my age ( grades 1 through 3 ) and that was Annie Oakley. In this show
    she was one of the most competent human beings I've seen. I always had
    a crush on her.
    
    
    Renee
    
    Renee

    Lucille Ball was not Lucy.  Lucille was a shrewd and talented performer
    who was not afraid to take risks, not afraid to make herself look
    foolish. 
    
    She got her big break in an Eddie Cantor film "Roman Scandals". 
    According to the story I read:
    
    	"The script called for a villain to hurl mud at Cantor, who
    	with perfect comic timing would duck, allowing the mud to
    	hit one of the Goldwyn Girls in the face.  But none of the
    	chorines was willing to be the target.
    
    	"No one, that is, except leggy young Lucille Ball, who
    	volunteered.  She wasn't afraid of looking silly."
    
    I don't see why people should criticize her just because she chose
    to be a clown, certainly not one of life's more high-brow professions.
    Lucille Ball was a talented performer and successful businesswoman.
    Lucy was a character she played.  Can't people separate the two?
    
    				Steve

    	Another thing is that, regardless of the particulars of the
    	"Lucy Ricardo" character, the show was a record-breaking,
    	trend-setting television classic (and it was built entirely
    	around one individual *woman* character.)
    
    	Although it might be said that the characters were a foursome, 
    	the show was clearly from Lucy's perspective (and she was the
    	established star and the comic center that made it all work.)

    	She also demonstrated that women could sustain quality work
    	during pregnancy.  The night of the show where Lucy went into
    	labor and gave birth to 'little Ricky,' Lucille Ball appeared
    	while she was *really* in labor (and gave birth to Desi Arnaz,
    	Jr. that very night,) then returned to the show as a new Mom
    	a relatively short time later.
    
    	She was also the co-head of Desilu, which was an unusual
    	accomplishment for a woman at that time.
    
    	One other thing that may not have occurred to many people is
    	that Lucille Ball was born in 1911 (which made her around 40
    	when 'I Love Lucy' began.)  For the early 1950's, it was somewhat
    	unusual for a woman of that age to be regarded as attractive
    	and appealing (not to mention a "first time Mom.")
    
    	We take it for granted now that women can be extremely attractive
	over 40, 50 (and later,) but in the early 1950's, that wasn't
    	the case.

    	Although I agree that the Lucy character was not exactly a
    	role model, I think other important messages are possible simply
	from the example of Lucille Ball's success at a time when so very
    	few other women were able to equal her accomplishments.

    Another thing about the I Love Lucy show that hasn't been mentioned
    here, is that it was largley through her determination that the
    show over came some considerable racism. The fact that Desi Arnez
    was Cuban was regarded as a very negative factor by those who had
    the power in broadcasting. There was, for example, great reluctance
    to list Arnez as a co star (rather than supporting player) on the
    show.
    
    Bonnie

    A movie that I really enjoyed with Lucy was "Yours, mine and ours."
    with Henry Fonda.  She really was a talented actress no matter what
    kind of role she was doing. And as someone mentioned earlier, a very
    astute businesswoman.  She was the force behind Desilu Productions, and
    bought out Desi Arnez when they divorced, and continued to run a very
    successful business by herself.
    
    I think Feminist is a very good name for her.  Look at the woman, not
    the characters she played.  (Just proves what a good actress she was)
    
    Beckyf

    
    re .8
    
    Wow, I hadn't even thought of the racism angle. Ricky and Lucy may
    have been the first inter-ethnic couple on TV!
                                                   
    Roberta

    
    	I love Lucy! 
    
    	I just read all the replies and have to agree, Lucille Ball
    	was not Lucy Ricardo.
    
    	And not once when I had seen her accept an award or be a hostess
    	for an awards ceramony was she "hair brained".  I think she
    	was  "CLASS" all the way.  Never a sleazy dress or mouth! But
    	always came across as an intelligent Lady.
    
    	Cathy
    
    

    RE: .10, she had to FIGHT to get him as a character on the show in the
    firstplace, let alone arrange correct billing.
    
    As an aside, on of her earlier film roles were with three comics known
    as:
    
    The Three Stooges.
    
    Eric
     

    She picked the title "I Love Lucy" because the 'I' would refer
    to her husband.
    
    Bonnie

    When I was 7 I never thought of the world as sexist or prejudiced.
    But I did like to laugh.
    
    I feel as though a little piece of my childhood is gone but not
    forgotten.
    
    I love Lucy. May she rest in peace.
    
    Kate
    

    My mother loved Lucy.
    My mother looked liked Lucy and she had the same crazy personality.
    My mother died ten and a half years ago at the young age of 47.
    
    I always looked at Lucy as my mother, they seemed so much alike.
    As Lucy aged I imagined what my mother would have looked like had
    she been allowed to grow old.

    Now I feel like I've lost my mother all over again.

    Goodbye mom, goodbye Lucy...I love you both.
    
    
    Jodi-
    
        
    

    My parents were both big fans of Lucy.  I imagine her death will
    serve to be a reminder to them of their mortality.
   
    Lucy was a very talented person.  She made alot of people smile
    and laugh.  If making people feel better and making people laugh
    is included in the measure of success, then she was surely successful
    in many ways. 

         You know, this conversation brings a lot of questions
         to mind that I have never really sorted out in my
         own mind. I still don't have many answers...[I do
         have some opionions....per usual....]....but I thought
         I would share some of the quesions....
         
         The issue of whether Lucy [or any other female at
         large...but especially "female of notariety"...]
         was a feminist strikes me as a moot point. Why?
         
         Because...
         
         I keep asking myself what is it feminists *do* for
         us? There is a whole list....incite, support, bear
         the torch, publicly announce...etc. But isn't the
         *real* thing they do "embody" the spirit of our dreams
         of equality?
         
         And isn't it humanly impossible for any *single* person
         to embody that dream for us all?
         
         And isn't it true that each woman we perceive as
         a role model "feminist" is just a bit *more* interested
         in *this* point or the other?
         
         And if we all were to list the single woman that
         gave us the most moral support and courage to be
         independant and self-defined...wouldn't we all list
         someone different?
         
         And isn't it *all* of our duties to take one little
         corner of the dream and try to live it so others
         who share that special thought see a role model?
         
         And doesn't that make the housewife down the street
         who has pride and assurance in what she does and
         loves doing it as much of a feminist as I in my office
         and corporate suit?
         
         So....
         
         I guess I think that settling on the answer of whether
         Lucy was a feminist or not seems way beyond my simple
         powers of deduction.
         
         I prefer to think about the millions of women who
         have watched her craft over the years and come away
         with a smile and less care; and about a lady who
         managed an empire level fortune with sense and guts;
         and about a person who did not hesitate to make fun
         of herself if that's what it took to win just a "few"
         of the big battles.
         
         Nope, I don't really care whether she fits the "mold"
         of feminist or not. She was a *woman* of strength
         and character....that is all any of us can hope to
         be, I think...
         
         Melinda

	I wasn't crazy about I love Lucy.  The pretense of a Cuban Band
    Leader and typical(?) surburban Houswife was so alien to the type
    of life I was familiar with that I couldn't identify with it.  Weemed
    too strange.  There were comics I like better at that time.  If
    you think about it, there were only tow sitcoms at the time.
    "The Jackie Gleason Show" vignette, "the Honeymooners" and "I love
    Lucy"  Gee, that makes it the first full-time sit-com.  I was watching
    history!
    	Lucy was in a lot of other movies as the female lead.  She was
    good at them.  I still remember them and she was a straight man
    to a lot of the funnier comics of the day.  She was better in her
    real life.  I'm looking forward to her various biographies.
    
    

    I'd like to mark the recent passing of two more great artists:
    
    Sir Laurence Olivier
    Mel Blanc
    
    Both masters in their own right......