Conference turris::womannotes-v2

                              
    	Any communication medium will serve as a filter to someone's
    "real self" or whatever. It's been shown that people prefer it that
    way - otherwise, we'd all have "picturephones" at home by now. 
    
         People dont want others to "see" them at whatever inopportune
    moment they may "call". Some people dont even want others to *hear* 
    them at whatever inopportune moment they may call - they "screen"
    their calls with an answering machine. (Can you imagine getting an 
    obscene phone call where the caller can *see* you? Your "real self" 
    - at least appearance wise? No Way!
    
    	That this medium also allows *time* as a variable for presentation
    gives one an opportunity to compose that which you feel is best
    representative of what you want others to see you as. Is this bad?
    Is it any wonder that people take advantage of this fact? I realize
    that some do not...However, I would say that some credit is due to those
    who do - it says something about the person.
    
    	Myself, I think Notes is too much of a filter - it's limited
    to ASCII characters. I want to take this mouse thing and draw cartoons,
    and put *that* up as a reply!
    
    	Joe Jas 

    I notice that some noters seem to have different personalities (or
    , rather, show different facets of themselves) in different
    notesfiles...
    
    -Jody
    

    I seem to remember a similar discussion (started by Jim Baranski?)
    in V1. 

    re:.2
    It seems logical to act differently in different settings. We are
    all multi-faceted.
    
    Kate 

    
        The thing about NOTES is that people are more capable of
        saying things than they are person-person.  I mean, I
        wouldn't DREAM of saying half the stuff I say if I actual-
        ly had to make eye contact while doing so.
    
        And people tend to get more hostile in NOTES, seeing how
        there's no real danger of physical contact ... just a forth-
        coming reply with as much hatred as yours.
    
                                                       Shawn L.
    

    in re .0 , actually Mark, it was when I made the connection
    between the man writing about his wife's pregnancy and the
    same last name and node name in soapbox that I made the comment
    that I was surprised that you and the 'doctah' of soapbox
    were the same. (aside, after a nice correspondance about and
    during the last weeks of the gestation of the Levesque's new
    daughter I had lunch with the proud parents and daughter.)
    
    Once I was told by someone at a party (and I am sorry that I
    no longer remember who said it to me) that they had expected
    me to either look like a librarian in her 50s (gray hair, bun..)
    or Dr. Ruth.
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

    re: .5 (Mike Z.)	good observation Mike, also very interesting!
    
    	.6 (Shawn L.)	Re: hostility and uninhibited noting- how true
    			    sometimes, especially in MOANS.

    And it can work both ways -- when I get thinking, and take the time to
    write it down in a reasonably articulate way, at times I get lots of
    nice letters saying things like "I love your notes", "I'd like to meet
    you", "You're so articulate", etc.  
    
    So people form an impression of me that my somewhat shy and often
    tongue-tied-in-person self has a hard time living up to.  Sometimes at
    noters' parties I think people are disappointed in the difference
    between the noter and the person.
    
    Holly

    There is a discussion earlier in this version of womannotes called
    "Who is the rest of your nonNOTES person?".  It is topic 105
    
    -Jody
    

    I went to a notes party last summer, where after one particular
    introduction, the person *refused* to believe I was Les Slater.
    I had to produce indentification.
    
    Les

   RE: -1   You too huh?  I went to a woman notes party, and almost
    had to do the same thing, except Jill corwin was there and she could
    vouch for me.. (Honest engine Maggie.. it really WAS me! :-)..)
    
    Gale

    This is a very interesting note, I have often thought of this myself.
    
    Good point, Shawn, by the way.
    
    I think, like someone said,  we are all multifaceted.  I may present
    myself different ways in different files, but it's sort of like
    the old "when in rome..."  My favorite conference (and the one I
    can identify the most with) is Heavy Metal.  In HM, I am 100% "me"
    because it's acceptable to be that way in that conference, I am
    among my peers who don't judge me because they are the same way.
    
    For instance, what if you met someone who is known to be "intellectual
    and serious" from this file and they turned out to be a long haired
    heavy metal person with tiger striped spandex?  Wouldn't you think
    differently of them?  Are you ever surprised by people's ages when
    you meet them?
                  
    I make a conscious effort to be the real me all around.  I am 
    friendly and outgoing and more than a little wacko, but when I
    first meet people they might think I'm different, because I tend
    to observe more than contribute the first few times I meet someone.
    Say, for instance, the Heavy Metal luncheon we had a few weeks ago.
    Me, who is crzy in notes, was relatively quiet.  I was among a group
    whom most of which had met before, and I was pretty much just sitting
    there people watching and listening to the sounds of people's voices,
    watching people's faces, sorting things out.   Doesn't mean the
    next time I get together with them I won't be more of a participant!
    
    I try to be the real me in all of the conferences.  Sometimes I'm
    tamer than others, depends on the forum.  In HM we act a lot different
    than people do here.  I'm adaptable, it doesn't mean I'm masking
    myself.
    
    Ask people who have met me (first times don't count-that's not the
    "real Dilly") and know me.  I'm exactly the same.
    
    Dilly
    

    
    Ladies and gentlmen of note lets talk personalities and percieved
    personalities here!
    
    Though I nag everyone I meet in the office about how helpful notes
    can be (dare I say fun also) I rarely ever meet anyone who even
    reads notes. (My children even check out the adventure conference
    and nintendo when I have fallen asleep at the terminal.) So I can
    honestly say I haven't a clue what anyone is like in person outside
    the notes file. However when I was in the USMC we used to have to
    babysit the barracks one night a month and where we used to sit
    there was a duty phone. There were women out in the real world that
    loved to (for what reason I'll never know) talk to the Duty NCO
    of the barracks and these conversations would go on for hours. Well
    sometimes love would fan the flame these conversations would start
    and the young Marines would meet there telephone friend always.
    I always chuckled when they were stunned by the results (the dates
    often wound up being religous zealots who wanted to convert them)
    I asked who did they expect to meet this months Playmate? They
    generally did.
    
    I had one other interesting experiance with this dualism. My first
    day on the job at XEROX 13 years ago I was assigned to travel with
    a senior tech rep. He was a very percise neat clean-cut young man
    whom you'd love to have your daughter date. That was in the office.
    When we went out to the car he turned into super-grouch. He was
    mean to the customers telling them all that they should be doing
    whinning about how the company was all screwed up and he was the
    only one who had all the right answers and on and on. Well after
    a week of this I asked to ride with someone else. I guess if I hadn't
    made the assumption that what I saw was what he was like I would
    have made somemore correct assumptions.
    
    About myself? These notes replys are pretty much on target. I can't
    say hello in less than 3 sentences. When I really get steamed about
    a topic like getting rid of company cars or something I can't even
    reply because I fear I'll never finish the reply! And I have an
    opinion about just about everything!
    
    Fred Mudgett
    

    re:.9
    
    Ditto here, Holly. At parties, unless I know a lot of people *really*
    well, I tend to just wander around being very quiet. I have no problem
    blabbing away in Notes, though.
    
    --- jerry

    RE:JERRY,
    I'm just the opposite. I'm rather outgoing and extroverted but
    my notes are short and to the point. I am more talkative in person
    because the interaction helps stimulate 2 way conversation. I hate
    to read dribble and I hate to write it. There is one writer in
    particular in this file whose notes I never get through! If she
    was on the phone with me I'd fall asleep with it off the hook!
    
    Some people write long notes with content and others just babbbbbble.
    
    Kate

    One of the great things about communicating via the terminal is
    that it cuts down (to 0) the judgements that we tend to make about
    a person based on looks. Those judgements could be positive or negative
    but they are eliminated here. We are judged on how we are able to
    express ourselves in writting.
   
    It is also true that many people could not say what they can write.
    Although I have no problem socializing and doing small talk, when
    it comes to serious issues I tend to write better. I believe that
    is because I can finish an idea without interuptions. If only we
    could cut and paste while talking. 
    
    Even with my SO I tend to write out more serious issues. That way I
    can reread them and know that the note really expresses what I am 
    trying to say. Then I zap it over to him (ah, the wonders of an 
    E-mail relationship)
    
    I hope that my Noting personality is no different than the real
    me. 
    
    Gail
    

    Re .13, why do you think that no "intellectual" people like heavy
    metal?  (That's not saying much for the medium is it?  If only dummies
    like it? :-)  )
    
    Re .16, how do you know that just because somebody writes boring
    that they also would talk boring on the phone?  Aren't they two
    completely different forms of expression?  
    
    Re Holly & Jerry, I know what you mean.  I think it's time people
    realized that just because a person may be capable of writing
    interesting notes that that does not mean the person is an extrovert
    who will speak publicly in front of hordes of people in exactly
    the same style as they write their notes!
    
    Introverts *are* capable of sitting to a terminal and typing their
    thoughts.  What does bother introverts is being the center of attention
    talking to a bunch of strangers.  In fact, notes is an excellent
    way for shy people to express their thoughts to a wide audience
    without having to (god forbid) speak at length in public.  I never
    expected to have such an opportunity  to force other people to hear my 
    views, without being a published author.

    It is true that when you first meet them, most noters are kinder
    and gentler in person than in their notes.  But, I'm sure that if
    we all got to know each other really well, that we would soon find
    that we are all just as capable of being rude and obnoxious in person
    as we are in notes. :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    Aw, come on, Lorna, rude and obnoxious people?  In Womannotes?
    
    Naw! 8^}
    
        
    Karen

	 I'm one of those noters who writes what she thinks and rarely
	 goes back and re-reads what I write.  Get's me in trouble
	 quite often.  8^)  Depending on the way I am feeling that day
	 (happy, depressed, etc) you probably either hate me or you
	 love me.

	 There are subjects I feel really deeply about and I try to
	 express that--if you met me and did not know me through NOTES
	 you would probably NEVER know that side of me.  I also
	 read/write in NOTES because I LOVE to learn.  I'm constantly
	 open to change in my views on just about everything.  I'm a
	 very open-minded individual, but because I don't have the
	 time to re-read and edit my notes, a lot of that
	 open-mindedness gets lost in the translation!

	 I've had other noters guess my age to be much older than I
	 actually am...no one has been close in 'picturing' me,
	 either.

	 Some people actually like me in person!  hahahahaha.....  



	 The way a person writes is only a small facet of their
	 personality. (at least in my case.)

	 kathy

    Hmmm.  I think I'm pretty much a what-you-read-is-what-you-get
    kind of person, but I'm not sure exactly what that means.  
    F'rinstance, what can be said of one who discusses human rights
    at a =wn= party while wearing a Moe, Larry, and Curly button?
    It'll be kind of neat to check this note out after the upcoming
    party(s).  
    
    This note reminds me of when I used to work as a radio "jock"
    and the omigod-you-don't-look-at-all-like-you-sound reaction 
    I occasionally heard; I learned quickly not to follow that remark
    with "Oh. . .what did you think I looked like?"
    
    Steve
    

    I hope for the most part that I come across the same way in notes that
    I do in person.  Bonnie R, can you vouch for me? ;-)

    Sure Kristy, you are definitely one of the warmest, huggable
    people I've ever met!
    
    hugs
    
    Bonnie

    Kristy...
    
    No, you come across way *taller*
    
    :-)

    Taller, eh, Gale?  What a letdown when you meet me then, huh? ;-)
    
    Thanks Bonnie!  I knew I could count on you!

    I think I am probably very close to being a WYSIWYG.  Only writing
    allows me a greater opportunity and more time to *carefully* insert
    *both* of my feet into my mouth.
    
    I recently read in a textbook that as one gets older, one becomes
    less inhibited.  Wow!!!  I can hardly wait for next year to come;
    figure it will be just the right age to use that as an excuse to
    *really* let myself go!
    
    m
   

         [Oooopps!]
         
         I had the occasion recently to meet a gentleman from
         far afield in the DEC world that I had previously
         only communictaed with in Mail and NOTES.
         
         He was rather taken a-back...his reason? He said
         I was *exactly* what I said I was..he wasn't expecting
         that...[actually he said I scared him sh***less,
         but I *think* he might have exagerated just a tad....]
         
         [chuckle]
         
         Melinda

    If I have time, I think I write pretty much in synch with who I
    am outside of NOTES, altho when I get partuicularly enthused about
    something I probably go overboard.  But truth be known, I too, am
    basically shy.  Of course when I have to become assertive my co-workers
    all call me "the pushy broad".
    
    And...my notes and mail messages are more verbose than my in-person
    self.  the "person" tends to come across as more serious than i
    feel i really am.
    
    unfortunately, i don't have any "surprise!?"feedback from noters in 
    this notes community since so few of you get out here to California!
               
    maybe someone will enlighten!
    
    rene

    
    I haven't gone back to the base note to reacquaint myself with it,
    but having just meant a bunch of noters for the first (and second)
    time this past weekend, under the most spectacular of circumstances,
    I have to say that I am more outspoken, honest, and at ease when
    sitting at a terminal and tapping on the keyboard.  In person, I'm 
    very often shy and can seem to be (I've been told) aloof, 
    disinterested, bored, uncommunicative, or "spacey".
                          
    Christine

       >511.0 Notes_self .NES.  Real_self?  31 replies

       re:  .0 et al

       Hm m  dejavu.  Seems like we've seen this topic before elsewhere at
       another time in another notesfile before today. true ?
       
       I agree with ML suposition that the noter_person is not necessarily
       an accurate reflection of  the  person  themselves.    However, the
       noter person may not be  the "whole" person, but it is at least one
       part of the "whole" person.
       
       Let me tell you why.  Recently, while attending a seminar on how to
       modify  our  own  behaviours  patterns    (not    the  title),  the
       "Stand_Up_speaker_who_sez_of_the_greatest_magnitude" reported  that
       while the person  who is speaking (such as me) may not be the exact
       person that my critics  see  (such  as  you);   both are at least a
       significant part of me.
       
       Assuming this to be true (it was  stated  as  being true;  as if it
       were  fact  of  psychology, and not just fact  of  belief  in  that
       principle) ..  then the "Noter Person" we percieve  is  part of the
       personality   structure  of  the  person  we  meet  face  to  face.

       Occasionally, the person we meet seems to be directly in opposition
       to the noter person.  There is a very good reason for this.
       
       My belief (that is, my opinion of the facts presented) is that when
       we write notes (attend meetings, get married,  date  someone, go to
       parties)  we  are  showing  (displaying  but  ONE  facet    of  our
       personality to those present.
       
       That  facet  is further distorted by the opinion we  hold  at  that
       time,  of  what  we read (are we happy, sad, emoting,  sympathetic,
       callous, jerky,  nerdy,  single).    We  then  attempt to construct
       thought pattterns through  this  emotional filter on the pretext of
       "intelligent thought".

       TEN Minutes later, we  can get a phone call regarding our (date was
       cancelled, sheriff is serving a  summons,  our  boss  is  sick, the
       lights went off, the coffee maker  got sick, our secretary lost the
       report that is due in 5 minutes,  the  moderator returned our reply
       to us with rotten unfair comments attached, the dog got sick on our
       floppies, the baby got sick, our link just died ...),
       
       ..  and our opinions seem to  change  ....    so  our Noter self is
       percieved as being changed.
       
       Sometimes, we can get a phone call from someone who we  may date in
       the  near  future,  and  they  can be the sweetest, lovable, caring
       (just ask  them)  person in the world.  But break the date for what
       THEY call a  callous, capricious reason ...  then WATCH OUT !!!  (I
       use this example, because it really happened to me.)

       Often it seems we  are not whom we seem to be.  Often, when seen in
       the  light of circumstances which  may  be  uncomfortable,  we  are
       percieved as being "different". This needs to be understood, also.
       
       Some people can go to parties, and thrive on the atmosphere, others
       may  feel threatened by strangers and odd  people;    wh  may  just
       prefer the quiet and solitude of the deep  woods, but go to parties
       to  "meet"  other noters out of curiosity or respect.    Respect  ?
       Why  not  ?    SOME  noters  are not only great  people  in  notes,
       perceptual of  imagery  in  the  written  context,  resourceful  in
       providing insight, and  just  plain  fine  people  to  have around.
       Others just seem to  have  a  Sunbeam  on  the all the time, and it
       feels contagious to have them there. Others .. just plain shy.
       
       Is this a real problem,  to  have  these  varying  opinions  of the
       difference between the Noter_self and the Real_self ?  I guess that
       depends on what sort of relationship the  two  plan to have between
       them, doesn't it ?
       
       Bob_the_Hiker
       
       If Cleanliness == Godliness
       and IF I am clean,
       
       Therefore, I am Godly ???