| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 473.1 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Notes? What's Notes? | Wed Mar 01 1989 10:41 | 28 |
| >1. Can my son apply for Financial Aid declaring only my
> salary without me declaring him as a dependent?
> (which is what his father wants to do)
I believe that you will have to list him as a dependent. You may
even have to show that he has been carried as a dependent by you
for some time. Check with the financial aid people at either your
son's current or future school.
>2. If I need to take him as a dependent in order
> for him to qualify, would I be responsible for
> ALL other expenses that my son would incur during
> his college years? In our divorce settlement, he agreed
> to pay for 4 years of college and all expenses.
I think that the divorce settlement would still hold. Note that
you husband would, in all likelihood, not be able to claim your son
as a dependent. At least not at a 100% level.
>3. Is there anything you could think of that I should be wary about?
The college would most likely hold you rather then your ex responsible
for your son's bills. This could be a problem if you ex gets late on
payments.
Two suggestions. Call your lawyer and call a tax advisor. ASAP.
Alfred
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| 473.2 | | SSDEVO::GALLUP | It's a terminal drama... | Wed Mar 01 1989 11:06 | 18 |
|
>1. Can my son apply for Financial Aid declaring only my
> salary without me declaring him as a dependent?
> (which is what his father wants to do)
you must list him as your dependent....and I think they consider
the last two years of his life when making a decision on financial
aid, therefore, for him to actually get any money for financial aid,
it would be at least 2 years down the road.
>3. Is there anything you could think of that I should be wary about?
definately get some kind of legal advise in this matter. there
are loopholes everywhere in financial aid...be VERY careful, I've seen
too many times where people are told they will get money, and then
don't because of a loophole the financial aid dept found...
k
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| 473.3 | | CALLME::MR_TOPAZ | | Wed Mar 01 1989 11:21 | 18 |
| Good grief. Anyone who tries to answer these questions treads on
real thin ice -- did you notice that the node of the author of .0
isn't in the US?
Suppose, just for starters, that Marie-Helene resides in France
and is subject to French tax laws -- does anyone here have much of
a clue how these laws work? And the terms of her divorce
settlement not only seem vague (it sounds like sloppy legal work
to simply say that the father is responsible for paying for 4
years of college without being more specific about costs and
location), but they may even be unenforceable, especially if the
decree were issued outside of the country where Mme Levine lives.
The free advice given here may do more harm than good -- see a
competent attorney if you want to understand the ramifications of
various courses of action.
--Mr Topaz
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| 473.4 | talk to your lawyer NOW!!! | GIAMEM::MACKINNON | | Wed Mar 01 1989 11:39 | 24 |
|
Well I went to school in the US, and the way the financial aid systems
work as far as the government stands is that the parent that claims
your son as a dependent is considered on the FAF. It will be your
ex-husband's salary that would be considered and not yours.
I agree with the response in 3. You should definitely talk to your
lawyer and also schedule an appointment with your son's school's
financial aid officer. They can give you more details specifically
relating to their financial aid programs.
As far as talking to the lawyer. If there is a statement in your
divorce decree that states that your ex is responsible for 4 years
of tuition for your son, then what difference would it make to
the courts as to which school your son attends? I would assume
that a statement specifically stating the amount to be paid and
the school to be attended would have to be included.
IMO, your ex is not putting his son's education as a priority.
It is unfortunate that your son should have to suffer in the
long run becuase of that.
michele
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| 473.5 | One additional suggestion... | STAR::BECK | Paul Beck | Wed Mar 01 1989 11:51 | 11 |
| ... which doesn't tread the legal mire.
Since the additional expenses derive from your son wanting to go to a more
expensive school, I don't think it's out of line to ask your son to get a
part-time job and summer work to supplement - as far as possible - his own
education. (Your ex might have some grounds to suggest that the divorce decree
would give him some say what college your son attends, since he's paying.
I'm not taking sides, just raising the issue.)
Of course, if your son is already working his tail off to help out, ignore
this intrusion...
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| 473.6 | | ULYSSE::LEVINE | | Wed Mar 01 1989 12:07 | 11 |
| Thanks for the input so far.
I have dual citizenship and currently working in Valbonne,
returning to the States in 4 weeks so there won't be any
tax ramifications.
The divorce settlement unfortunately did not specify any
college or costs.
My son has worked to help with expenses and will work this
summer, but it's not enough.
Merci beaucoup!
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| 473.7 | Hold it on the lawyers!!!! | 2EASY::PIKET | | Wed Mar 01 1989 13:17 | 26 |
|
Having recently graduated, and having received extensive financial
aid while at school, I think I speak with some knowledge, assuming
we are talking about the US and not France.
On the FAF, the form that almost ALL colleges have you submit to the
folks in Princeton, NJ who do a computer analysis of your financial
need, the parent is asked if he/she gave more than a certain
amount of support to the student last year. This determines if the
student is a dependant of that parent or not. If the parents are
divorced, I believe both parents are requested to fill out a form.
Most schools will also request that both parents fill out the school's
own form as well.
When you submit the form, you are also expected to submit a copy
of your tax return (either to the school or to NJ; I can't remember
which). So what you and your ex-husband tell them better match up with
what you tell the IRS.
Before you spend money on professional advisors, pick up an FAF
(either from your kid's current college's financial aid office,
or from his high school), read the instructions, and then, if you're
still confused, contact an accoutant. No reason to rush out and
get one before looking into every other (free) source of info.
Roberta
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| 473.8 | Please, see a lawyer! | TOPDOC::SLOANE | A kinder, more gentle computer ... | Wed Mar 01 1989 13:59 | 19 |
| Re: -.1
The FAF (and I just got one back yesterday for my daughter) only
sets up a guideline or yardstick for the college's use. The school can
give you more or less or no aid at all, and over the 8 years I've
had kids in college, all of these have happened.
Furthermore, the FAF cannot unravel complex legal problems.
So, please, please, consult a lawyer! If your ex- has enough to
pay off his $300K condo, and the divorce decree says he has to pay for
college, no school in earth will grant you financial aid. But my
advice is about as worthless as everybody else's in this note.
Many lawyers will give you an initial consultation for a minimum or
even no fee. It will definitely be worth it. Don't sacrifice your
child's college education for the sake of a few bucks.
Bruce
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| 473.9 | Read the fine print. | JAIMES::GODIN | This is the only world we have | Thu Mar 02 1989 14:33 | 20 |
| Regarding U.S. only:
FWIW, we've just completed the FAF games (for this year), and there
appear to have been some changes in the system since some of the
previous noters had first-hand experience. The parent who completes
the "standard" FAF is the CUSTODIAL parent (not necessarily the
parent who claims the student as a dependent). The custodial parent's
income plus spouse's income (if any) is considered. PLUS each of the
schools where my daughter is applying required the non-custodial parent
(and spouse, if any) to complete their own version of the FAF.
So, in our case, four adult incomes -- and assets -- are being
considered, and it will be a miracle if we receive any financial
aid (still waiting to hear).
Don't know whether this will help the original noter or muddy the
waters more.
Good luck.
Karen
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| 473.10 | let your son be independant of both parents | CYRUS::DRISKELL | | Thu Mar 02 1989 18:48 | 22 |
| another option...
the forms (as i remember then) ask you to report last years & this
years income, and to state if you are 'dependant' or indepandant'.
(dependant is if you recived more than $x amount).
If your son is willing, have him wait a year (possibly go to a cheaper
local school, just to get in the habbit) but to live on his own
& support himself. He must not live with either parent for more
than 2 consequtive weeks.
he is then an independant, so long as no one claims him on tax forms.
the past year or this year.
the financial aid is then determined on HIS income, which would
probably be barely enough to keep him alive. That way, he'll get
maximun aid from both school & gov't.
In the past, I've seen seniors in HS leave home to "rent" from
a relative after dec 31. They find some way to scronge enough
to survive the first year of college, then they get "full support"
for the next 3 years. In my case, I wasn't an "independant" till
my junior year, but it did make the last years easier.
|
| 473.11 | Don't rip off the schools | ULTRA::WITTENBERG | Secure Systems for Insecure People | Fri Mar 03 1989 14:03 | 23 |
| Re: .10
It's clear that I come from a different culture. The top priority
in my parents' house was (and is) education. Almost anything else
would be dropped in order to pay tuition. A major goal of my
financial plans is to have enough money to send my children
through school. I'm planning for that even though I'm not yet
married.
Given that culture, and the thought that parents are responsible
for providing their children with an education which is part of
the culture (If I went back to school tommorow, my parents would
try to support me.), it seems really unfair to apply for financial
aid independently from one's parents. Schools are short of money,
and to ask the school to pay for someone's education so his father
can buy a $300k codo strikes me as unfair and rather sleazy. In a
time when schools are having trouble finding operating funds it is
important to save scholarship money for people who really can't
afford it, and not those who want a free ride through school so
they have more money for toys.
--David
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| 473.12 | But you can't control other people | SSDEVO::YOUNGER | GODISNOWHERE | Fri Mar 03 1989 14:31 | 10 |
| I think the views of .11 and his family are admirable. It would
be nice if everyone had such values.
However, if your parents *won't* give you any money for your education,
is it fair to be unable to apply for financial aid on your own (after
all, you *are* on your own). I agree that .0's ex is a real sleezeball
for doing things this way, but neither .0, her child, nor any of
us have any control over that.
Elizabeth
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| 473.13 | | ULTRA::WITTENBERG | Secure Systems for Insecure People | Fri Mar 03 1989 16:32 | 19 |
| I see nothing wrong with students whose parents won't give them
any money applying for financial aid. From my culture I find the
parents sleazy in not supporting their children.
What I do object to is parents saying "pretend you're independant
for a year so we can spend the money on something else." The
father in .0 clearly has money, he should pay for his kids
education.
Every year I contribute to my alma mater's scholarship fund. I do
so inorder to allow people with less money to go to college. I
don't donate money so people with lots of money can spend more on
their toys. This sort of fraud has been around for a long time,
and I object strongly to it, just as I object to people not paying
their student loans. In both cases people who have money are
trying to take advantage of our belief in the benefits of
providing an education for people who can't afford it.
--David
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| 473.14 | | SSDEVO::GALLUP | It's a terminal drama... | Fri Mar 03 1989 16:51 | 22 |
|
Well, you could always have parents like mine who paid less
than 25% of my schooling, will never let me forget it ("oh,
we went without soooo much for you...." They are fairly well
off, and my school was very inexpensive.) and refused to *not*
claim me on their income tax.
Catch-22...Financial aid for me had their income on it, yet I
didn't get much help from them at all. (I believe when I
applied, the combined income of the parents had to be less
than $35K for financial aid help at my school.)
I got lucky...I got out with no loans....but scholarships are
the only thing that got me through.
There are PLENTY of scholarships out there...if you know how
to find them....the financial aid office can help you on that
one too.
k
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| 473.15 | | ODIHAM::PHILPOTT_I | Col. Philpott is back in action... | Tue Mar 07 1989 08:31 | 19 |
|
.0 and the subsequent comments about 'culture' bring the following
to mind: I went to university in England, where students get free
tuition and a support grant the amount of which is decided by a means
test: the more the parent or guardian earns, the smaller the grant.
I had a friend who failed totally to extract the 'supplement' from
his father who simply said "if you want to go to university - you
pay for it!". In the end my friend sued - succesfully - and got all
maintenance payments enforced by the court.
Since you mention in .0 that "In our divorce settlement, he agreed
to pay for 4 years of college and all expenses" it seems to me that
the time is right to get a lawyer and go back to court to get the
original settlement clarified and enforced. It seems to me that your
ex is trying to break a legal agreement by "small print-ing" it,
presumably without substantial support (unless of course the agreement
was for four years of college at the cheapest available college).
/. Ian .\
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| 473.16 | personal experiences | TSG::LEE | No job is too small to botch. | Mon Mar 13 1989 13:50 | 55 |
|
FWIW, I was stuck with a similar situation when I was in
school: my parents are divorced, I lived with my mother, and
my father (who had the significantly higher income) refused
to contribute anything to my education.
As mentioned earlier, it is the custodial parent who applies
for financial aid, using the FAF form, which includes the
income of the custodial parent and any support payments as
part of its information. The non-custodial parent is not
required to complete a FAF, however, most (if not all)
schools will require the non-custodial parent to supply the
same sort of information.
With this information, they compute the "family's" ability to
pay - i.e. the amount they expect the parents to contribute.
Some schools split this up between parents, others leave that
for you to do. Any difference (in a need based financial aid
system, which most of them are) will be made up by the
school.
In my case, the school took no notice of the fact that my
father would not pay any amount, informing me that that was
basically my tough luck, since he was capable of doing so.
In your case, you should be aware that regardless of any
amount agreed upon, the amount the school computes for your
ex-husband's contribution may be above it. (I don't know for
sure what force a legal agreement has - you should check with
the school in question, and possibly also a lawyer to find
out. In fact, you should definitely discuss the whole thing
with the school's f. aid office, they can be very helpful
sometimes)
Also, you should be careful about having your son declare
himself financially independent. Although the government
only requires one year of independent living, schools often
have their own requirements (my school said that you had to
be on your own for *four* years, or be 23 or older). There
are also limits on the amount of money one can receive from
one's parent(s) during the time one is establishing
independence.
Finally, (this is much longer than I originally intended) I
think that you should definitely resolve how much your
ex-husband will be required to contribute, I agree with the
others when they say that (a) he is a rat for putting his
son's education at such a low priority (I should know, I
have had plenty of experience with such a rat) and (b) that
you should check with the schools f.a. office/a lawyer/an
accountant for info. and help.
Andy
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| 473.17 | Keep Trying | PERFCT::NOVELLO | | Mon Mar 13 1989 23:44 | 12 |
|
IMHO, I'd pursue things, even if they say no the first time.
I applied for FA when I was unemployed. The forms only asked
about my assets, and NOT my expenses. And, since I owned a
house, I guess they figured I should sell it if I wanted to
continue my education. After several letter/phone calls to
managerment types, they agreed to give me some money.
Guy Novello
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