Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    For the past few years I have been using a form of "talking to myself"
    that was instigated by my therapist.  I do *massive* amounts of
    writing---and I use word processing for several reasons and in several
    ways.
    
    I date the entries, and then write whatever and everything that
    I am thinking about on that subject no matter what rolls off my
    brain.  And then I leave it alone for a day or two, but will often
    go back over what I have written and re-read it.  As I think about
    whatever negative emotion I am dealing with during the course of
    the day, I incorporate some of those written statements and "work"
    them in my head.  Are they true, untrue, do they reflect the *why*
    of the negativity I am feeling.
    
    That sounds quite a lot, and rather complicated.  Perhaps you would
    feel it much too much effort to put into your problem.  But I have
    found the side benefit of this has been a broadening of my
    self-knowledge that goes beyond the problem in question.
    
    I have just come out of a very difficult and convoluted situation
    in the past 4 1/2 months which included a broken relationship, a
    death, an impending death, and a major break between one of my children
    and myself.  By writing (and I wrote *reams and reams*)  and talking
    it over with very close friends, I think I have come a long way
    to self-understanding and some contentment.
    
    Anger is so very self destructive---and it should be dealt with
    as soon as possible and as in-depth as one can permit themselves
    to go.  
    
    Marilyn

    Yeah, there's someone I feel that way about.  I finally found
    a thought that calmed me and gave me *great* satisfaction:
    
    "She has to live with herself twenty-four hours a day.  It must
    be hell."
    
    						Ann B.

The way I deal with anger about names is to let it out in a womannotes topic,
or to a sympathetic friend. Then I get the good, supportive "yeah, that pisses
me off too". Then I can let go.
	Mez

    
    If it were me I'd write her a really cutting, biting letter telling
    her what a pathetic loser she is. I'm pretty good with those kinds
    of letters. Just ask my ex-boyfriend! :^)
    
    But that's just what _I_'d do.          
    
    Roberta

    I have one of those too.  When I get hooked by the anger (and it's
    usually because I get caught by surprise by something) I do everything
    in my power to avoid getting into a p***ing contest with that person.
    I always lose in one way or another.  So I climb something, dig
    every weed out of the garden, bake bread(so I can knead the daylights
    out of it), walk.  Something physical.  Sometimes I beat the stuffing
    out of a pillow.  Then I write it all out.  As many times as I need
    to.  Then I talk it out.  I do all that until I get tired of letting
    that person take up my time, space and energy.  
    
    Just a light note: I'm kinda impressed by someone who can manage
    to remember that kind of specific detail and use it to needle you
    over time and space.  Sorta makes me wonder what she does in her
    spare time.  Does she thrive on strife?  
    
    Dondi

    Hi--
    
    I understand how you must feel!  I had a similar situation, and
    using some of the techniques other noters have mentioned, i.e.,
    talking it out, really helped to diffuse the bomb.
    
    RE: her letter, it could just be that she sent it the way Emily
    Post would have: Mrs. XXXXXXX  instead of MS. XXXXXX, with no 
    "malice aforethought"...
    
    (BTW, are you Lisa from the TKDKC??  Hi!!)
    
    Jane 

    Thanks everyone for all your thoughts... I think just writing it
    down and hearing some "me too"s has really gone a long way toward
    feeling "finished" with this thing. 
    
    Re: .2 "She has to live with herself 24 hours a day..."
         I laughed out loud!  Too, too true -- and I never thought of
         it that way!
    
    
    Re: .5 "Does she thrive on strife?"
         YES!  And where none naturally exists, she creates it.
    
    
    Re: .6 "...no "malice aforethought"...
         For many reasons too numerous to go into here (and bore everyone
         with) I'm sure it was _not_ accidental.  I'm not paranoid --
         I just know this woman all too well.
    
         (BTW... I _am_ Lisa from TKDKC -- how are you?  Glad to see
         "It's JB"C" now", congratulations!)
    
    
    Feeling better already!          ...Lisa V...
                                                 

You could always call up the IRS and ask them whether the company
really and truely paid the W2 sum, since the name isn't the one
you used at the company. "Perhaps they could check with the company
and see whether there was some mistake."

If you want to spend $2.00, a Certified letter to the treasurer of
the company asking the same question will quite possibly be
adequate revenge.

Even if you never write the letter, just the thought that you could
should bring on a smile.

Martin.

    Instead of feeling anger at her, try feeling sorry for her.
    It sounds as if her life is the one that is deprived if she
    feels that you've had too much "personal freedom" in yours.
    
    --- jerry

I'd just like to interject that FEELING ANGRY ISN'T BAD. It means something.
Now, if you go on and hurt _yourself_ because of that anger, then there is
something to change. But anger is real and valid and points to real things that
need attention.
	Mez

    I agree with the .11.  Feelings aren't good or bad; they're
    just feelings.  And I certainly understand why you are feeling
    angry with this person!
    
    Sometimes the most freeing thing to do when angry with someone is
    to forgive them.  It is NOT EASY!  Especially when you feel that
    they don't deserve it. 
    
    When I broke up with a guy I had been dating, I thought the anger
    I felt toward him would go away.  It didn't.  I resented him more
    and more every day.  A year later I realized how it was eating 
    away at me and hurting me.  Forgiving him made me feel better.  
    He no longer had power over me.  But it didn't happen overnight.
    
    Writing was essential to the healing process.  I wrote him a letter,
    which was not to be sent, explaining how I felt about him, why I
    was angry, and how being angry was hurting me.  
    
    I also wrote all the times I felt I hurt *him*, and asked him to
    forgive me.  Now maybe some of you are saying "HEY, that's just
    going a little too far...".  But it _helps_ if we realize that
    none of us are perfect.
    
    Writing this letter helped to resolve the anger for
    *myself*.  It certainly didn't change him, but it did change me.
    
    The relationship can never truly be resolved, however, unless both
    of us communicate.  And that's another step.  
    
    Getting back to the base note, it doesn't seem like the other woman 
    would be too open to this!  You can't change her, but you can
    begin healing within yourself.
    

    
    I'll have to go along with .12 in regards to writing it all down.  I
    have always found writing a letter to the person I am angry with and
    getting it out of my system a great relief.  After the letter is written
    and I'm feeling better, I tear it up and throw it away.
    
    There is also a great book that's out called "Dance of Anger" for help
    in dealing with feelings of anger.  I bought the book when my marriage
    broke up because the anger and bitterness I felt toward my husband was
    eating away at me constantly.  The book presents many different 
    scenarios where anger is present and suggested ways of handling them. 
    It shows you how to deal with anger constructively rather than destruc-
    tively.  I highly recommend it.
    
    Beckie

    Hi,
    
    	I've been read only for a while, but I wanted to write
    something to this note since it is so current.
    
    	Whenever I've had anger that seems to linger, it's
    due to the fact that I am also hurt.  In fact it's hard to
    tell where the angry begin and the hurt ends or vice verse.
    At these times, I find I'm feeling this way because I am
    angry with myself for allowing myself to be hurt or made 
    angry by another human.
    
    	I thinks someone mention forgive the person.  I would
    like to add also forgive yourself.  Once I have forgiven
    myself, it is easier to forgive the other person.  Writing
    and walking also help in the beginning but ultimately
    forgiving becomes necessary.
    
    Veronica.

    re .13 Beckie, do you have the author's name ? In case I need to
    have B. Dalton's order it.  
    
    Thanx,,,Dana

    
    Dana,
    
    I don't know the author's name off hand but I'll look it up for you
    when I get home.
    
    Beckie

    Anger isn't good or bad -- its just IS!  Some experts say it is
    a "secondary emotion."  By that they mean that we are hurt, afraid,
    embarrassed, etc., and that that primary feeling results in anger.
    An illustration is a parent whose teenager is very late coming home.
    The parent has all kinds of worried thoughts that the teen has been
    mugged, raped, in a car accident, etc., etc.  But when the teen
    comes home, the parent "chews the kid out" in anger rather than
    expressing the fear and worry, which were the primary feelings that
    triggered the anger.  (Example from a book on parent-child communication.)

    I'm not sure whether or not I agree that anger is *always* a secondary
    emotion, but I *try* to examine what other feeling may be underlying
    it when I feel angry.  HOWEVER, this is a long way from considering
    it an "over-reaction!"  That does not follow at all!  (The parent,
    seeing that the teen is ok, is angry at the teen for *causing* the
    fear and worry, for not keeping faith, etc.)
    
    Nancy
    PS - Have I contradicted myself????

    re: .0
    
    Then there are those who like to do something a bit physical.  Some
    people I know swear by long walks and aerobic workouts; others 
    claim that breaking a few glasses (in the designated "this-one's-
    for-you,-bozo" area of the basement) is the *only* way to go.
    I kind of like a few good kicks and punches at a door - hollow-
    core, usually the junky ones in the basement, tho' upon rare occasion,
    those still on hinges have been at risk. . .).  I know several
    people who have dedicated "punching" pillows.
    
    Before someone sends the people to take me to a rubber room, I should
    indicate that such behaviors work as energy dissipators as opposed
    to methods of momentarily warding of human mayhem.  Anger, like
    all emotions, carries with it a certain physiological state and
    many people find that to engage in some strenuous physical activity
    helps purge that state.  I personally find that once I've whupped
    on the door for a bit, I can settle down and reflect more effectively
    on the total moral and ethical depravity of my adversary.
    
    
    re: .17
    
> I'd just like to interject that FEELING ANGRY ISN'T BAD. It means something.

�   It probably means that one is over-reacting ...  
    
    Why "over" reacting?  It seems to me that sometimes people act like
    jerks and treat others in very rude and offensive ways; I think
    that anger may be an entirely appropriate reaction.
    
    Steve
    

    What a good bunch of replies!  
    
    I keyed on this remark:
    
    "... I give up my power to her."  
    
    Yes, you're sure right!  She may be a person who needs people's hatred,
    who lives off the power it brings her.  Forgiveness restores your
    control over your personal power.  You need it, not her. Forgiveness
    is All.
    
    Best to You!
    
    Donald Reinke
    
    

Let's assume her name is Sue.

Buy a postcard, a big, beautiful one, that is so wonderful
people must pick it up and look at it.

Mail it to her at the company.

----------------------------------------------------
  Dear Sue,

  From your latest communication, I see you are still 
  a jackass.

  Consider therapy. Even you can afford.
  Or consider changing jobs.  The nice people
  who work with you would look upon this as a 
  special blessing.

----------------------------------------------------

Not very nice, but the mailroom would enjoy it.

    re:.22
    
    That reminds me of Harlan Ellison's method for dealing with crank
    letter-writers:
    
    Send the offending material back to them with a cover letter
    saying something like:
    
    	"There's something I feel obliged to bring to your
    	attention. Apparently, as you can see from the
    	enclosed sample, some utter moron is writing letters
    	and signing your name to them. You might want to
    	contact your local Post Office and see what can be
    	done to stop this from happening again."
    
    --- jerry

    You know, I'm really feeling better about this whole thing.  All
    your responses have really given me  a) support  b) some new
    perspectives  c) a sense of humor  and  d) some great suggestions
    for retaliation  :-)  (re: .22 & .23 - two great ideas!  Should
    I?  hmmmm...)
    
    In reading all your replies, I realized that since Ms. X apparently
    thrives on anger and strife, letting myself get all hot and bothered
    is letting her win, since this is exactly what she wants.  My best
    "revenge" is to just ignore her, which is just what I'm going to
    do.  She's certainly not worth my time or attention!
    
                             ...Lisa V...
    

    Famous old saying...
    
    "The best revenge is to go ahead and live a good life anyway."
    
    Don't know who said it, but I've discovered it works!
    
    Barb

    	As me mother would say, "I wouldn't allow the actions of
    	another to cause me grief." More less what she would say.
    
    	The bottom line: don't allow this woman to burden your
    	life. Forget her. Seems that most people saw her for
    	what she was anyway. Don't waste time stewing (great
    	work) about her or her actions.
    
    	Scott

    Just because someone tells you to go to hell doesn't mean you have
    to do it!

    But anger can be so much fun!  Under the right circumstances, it's
    a very satisfying emotion.  (Mixed with indignation, it's great;
    mixed with frustration, it's usually awful.)  Anyway, don't feel
    guilty for feeling angry.  As far as retaliation goes, I'd stick
    to fantasy rather than action.  That way, it can't backfire and
    you're guaranteed to come out ahead.  Indulge in a few daydreams,
    really let her have it and hopefully get it out of your system.
    If your mind doesn't move on to other things after a few days, you'll
    need to figure out why it's so hard for you to let go of the situation.
    What was it about her behavior that really hurt you?  Why do you
    feel the need for some form of revenge?

    <-- re: .30
    
    I really don't feel the need for "active" revenge; just ignoring
    her, which is sort of "passive" revenge.
    
    But just fantasizing about some of the really creative ideas mentioned
    here is, as you said, a lot of fun!
    
                             ...Lisa V...
            

    
    Dana,
    
    The author of "The Dance of Anger" is Harriet Goldhor Lerner, Ph.D., a
    psychotherapist at the Menninger Foundation.
    
    Some of the chapters included in the book include:
    
    The Challenge of Anger
    Old Moves, New Moves, and Countermoves
    Circular Dances in Couples
    Using Anger as a Guide
    Who's Responsible for What" The Trickiest Anger Question
    Tasks for the Daring and Courageous
    
    I really found the book very helpful and have found occasions where
    rereading portions of this book helped put things back into perspective
    once again.
    
    Beckie

    Or, your husband could send her a note and sign it...Mr. Lisa
    Veilleux...