Conference turris::womannotes-v2

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Note 350.46                       Women of Note                         46 of 46
HAMSTR::IRLBACHER                                    82 lines  13-JAN-1989 13:09
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    With the issue of abortion coming up before the courts *again*
    and the possibility that curtailment of abortions--for whatever
    "legalese" reasons--could be the result, I think this notes question
    is excellent.
    
    I have not had an abortion, but I have been closely involved with
    several women who did.  One was a daughter, one was a friend.  I
    would like to comment about what I was privy to in their struggle
    to make their decisions on whether to go through with the pregnancy
    or to have an abortion.  And I would also like to give my own
    personal feelings concerning my daughter's choice.
    
    My daughter became pregnant at 19.  She was "in love" with the
    child's father.  My husband and I were--deeply upset, very angry
    that she had 'messed up her life at such an early age', quite
    concerned about how she intended to handle a child when she 
    could not yet handle herself, etc. etc.--.  My first reaction
    was that she should get an abortion.  Once the rest of the
    family got involved (we *always* deal with each others problems,
    that is our strength as well as a pain in the tush) the concensus
    was "abortion for her sake" as well as the not needed child.
    
    Well, she finally decided for the abortion for herself, and the
    arrangements were made, the counselling received, the action
    done.  Less than 2 months later, she married the man, and immediately
    got pregnant again.  To this day we have not been able to discuss
    that first pregnancy and what happened other than her saying that
    she had it only because she felt so very alone
    as not even the father wanted her to carry to term.  The marriage
    eventually ended in divorce, and she has the only child--my very
    precious gson.  
    
    I do know that we as a family really felt at that time 
    that had she carried to term she would have limited herself in
    many ways.  And I cannot say I have changed my mind--her eventual
    marriage and pregnancy does not negate the fact that the choice
    of marriage might not have been considered at the first pregnancy
    and she would have become a single 19 year old parent with 2
    exceptionally reluctant parents having to take up the slack in
    her life.
    
    The other woman (now near 30) was a young 16 year old when she
    found herself pregnant by another 16 year old whom she had been
    "in love" with for years.  
    
    Her family was devastated, and although she considered an abortion
    as the only way out, her parents (deeply religious) refused to
    allow it and she went away to live with married relatives until
    the child was born.  A private adoption was arranged, and I am
    not sure that she was ever told of the sex of the child.
    
    I do know that she agonized over her choice of carrying to term
    and an abortion, and felt that her life would have been very
    different had she carried to term and kept the child.  
    
    Neither of these girls made their decisions without a great many
    tears and real soul-searching.  Both of them were very young, and
    each had parents who supported their eventual choice -- but I,
    for one, recognize that the *choice* was *not* made without 
    some coercion, and I personally have regret over that.
    
    I am a pragmatist.  I generally go on the premise that
    although I may not like and sometimes disapprove of
    something, if it seems the best course, I take that course
    and assume the responsibility that goes with having made
    the choice.  And yet, holding my daughter's hand while
    she underwent the abortion, comforting and assuring her that 
    things would get better, I inwardly sorrowed at losing what
    could have been my second grandchild.  You see, the child that
    was adopted was my grandchild, also.
    
    But each girl has become a stronger, more balanced and mature
    woman.  And I know that each one has come to terms with their
    decision. 
    
    Marilyn
    
    
    
    
    

Moved to follow the topic
    
    Bonnie J
    comod
    
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Note 183.494                    Abortion Concerns                     494 of 494
SALEM::LUPACCHINO "There's a world beyond this room" 32 lines  12-JAN-1989 14:53
                       -< Abortion concerns real time. >-
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This reply is being posted for a member who wishes to remain anonymous.

Ann Marie, co-mod.
                                                                   
                          
This whole note is a very painful one for me right now.

About a month ago, my oldest son came to my husband and me
to talk about the fact that the previous day he had gone with his girl
friend to be with her when she had an abortion. (They are
both attending college in another state).

The girl friend (I'll call her Beth) is on medication for
seizures. This medication is tetragenic (causes birth defects).
Beth's doctors had been experimenting with the dosage to her
medication. One effect of the changing dosages was to make
her nauseous. She was throwing up a lot and started taking
antiacids. She is/was on the pill but the combination of the
vomiting and antiacids caused her protection to fail about 6
weeks ago. (They were not aware that antiacids had a negative
effect on the pill.)

During the following 6 weeks she experienced such severe mood
swings that our son was afraid that Beth might take her life.

Tho my husband is on the 'pro-life' side of the abortion question
and I on the 'pro-choice' side we were both united in our feeling
that they had made the right decision, and in our love for both
of them.

    Catherine,
    
    Thanks for starting this topic. All of us (on both sides of the
    fence) who don't have any personal experience in the matter can
    argue theory and politics and morality until we're blue in the
    face. But it's the folks that have had to deal with it personally
    (either directly or indirectly) who really have something to say
    that the rest of us need to listen to.
    
    --- jerry

      I think part of the problem is that people try to generalize the
    whole subject. I personally think that each "case" is its own "case"
    After reading eash persons reason/experience/final choice I find
    myself agreee with the author.
    
     My opinion, I am pro-choice! I'm a firm beleiver that if the male
    population could get pregant then abortions would have been legal
    a long time ago. Each person has to decide what is the best choice.
    Pro-lifers do have the right to protest. Their opinion is their
    choice, but don't try to jam it down on me!
    
     
                     REK

    Re: .4
    
    Exactly!
    
    You took the words right out of my mouth!

    Thank you.
    
    -Dotti.    
    

re: .4

	Thanks for your input, but I would like to make sure that keep this 
topic on track.  It's intended for sharing one's own experience 
making a personal decision to have or not have an abortion.  Since men are 
never faced with making this decision for themselves, I suggest this FGD 
topic may be used to share the experience of persons who have been
involved in making the decision with someone else in their life, such as
a daughter or wife. 

    Re:6 But I feel the final choice is the females. A male cannot really
    understand the feelings of having something growing inside of you.
    I'm reading the FWO note about this and most of them made the choice
    on how they felt, I didn't read too much male input into the choice.
    I'm not saying that that is the best way, its just that the male
    should not impose his choice onto the female. She should have the
    final say.......
    
                     REK

    re .7:
    
    I agree with Catherine, this note should be for discussion (or more
    properly; presentation) of one's feelings concerning the experiance
    of abortion. 
    
    > But I feel the final choice is the females. A male cannot really
    > understand the feelings of having something growing inside of you.
      
    This is a political argument.
    
    What Catherine is suggesting as a direction for this note is, for
    example, for men to discussion their personal experiance and emotions
    when one of their loved ones was considering or undergoing an abortion.
    
    No, a male cannot really understand the feelings of having something
    growing inside them, but they can still feel the loss of their child
    that is aborted. 
    
    Yes, the decision to abort is _ultimately_ the woman's alone, but
    that does not mean the father is never involved in the decision.
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    I'm not sure if this is the right topic for this, but I'd like to
    share a friend's experience.  I'll call her "Jane".  She was seventeen,
    and inher first semester at college.Her high school boyfriend "Jim"
    and she had been drifting apart.  At school, she met a new boyfriend
    "Bill", with whom she was not yet sexually active.  Home for
    Thanksgiving, she decided to call it quits for good with Jim.  Too
    much to drink, etc., and they wound up in bed.  She's pregnant.
     Her parents urge her to have an abortion.  Her friends urge her
    to have an abortion.  Jane doesn't feel she can handle a baby,
    but also doesn't feel she can handle an abortion.  Jim  wants to
    marry her.  She returns to school, breaks up with Bill, and the
    pregnancy continues.  When she returns home for the summer, her
    parents are horrified- what will the neighbors think,etc, and ship
    her off to a home for unwed mothers to complete the pregnancy. 
    Jane has by now decided on adoption.  Her daughter is born.  She
    sees her, and feels she can't give her up.  But after six months
    of baby, and therapy, she decided that she needs to get her own
    life back on track, and makes the adoption decision-- with much
    regret.  She graduated from nursing school last summer, four years
    after her daughter was born.  She was both psycologically and
    physically scarred by the experience, but I know that she was also
    strengthened.  And she says that she's comforted by the thought that
    she "created a family" for a couple who could not have children.

    My sister, Wendy, has always wanted many children.  Most of the
    time she has been lukewarm to the idea of having a husband.
    
    When she was 15 she began doing some pretty serious hallucinogenic
    drugs and got pregnant. She wasn't _entirely_ sure who the father
    was, but felt reasonably certain.  It didn't really matter.  She
    was entirely apathetic. Didn't want an abortion.  Didn't want a
    baby. Didn't want to talk about adoption.
    
    Mother informed her that she was going to live with me [I'm 10 years
    older and was 1,000 miles away], she was going to have the baby,
    and she was going to put it up for adoption.  [All this before I
    had a clue, but that's another issue].
    
    I took Wendy to my doctors [father, son, & daughter] and things
    were going well until month 4 when Wendy began to hemmorhage.  The
    placenta had attached almost directly atop her cervix and would
    tear loose.  While the conditon of placenta praevia is sometimes
    workable, the loss of blood from this severe a case is life-endangering
    to both mother & fetus.  Her doctor advised that the pregnancy be
    terminated.  Wendy's answer was 'whatever you say...'  Mother's
    was 'I lived through it, it's not so bad' [the first part is true,
    and Wendy was the result.  The second I would hotly debate, but
    that too is another issue].
    
    The ball was in my court so to speak.  I was faced with an entirely
    apathetic teen-ager and a mother who put the possible live birth
    of this child above the life of her daughter.  Having lost my own
    baby daughter 5 years previously, I was unable to reconcile this.
    I sat down with Wendy's doctor and we discussed many options.
    Amniocentesis[sp] was done and what came back was a male child with
    multiple abnormalities.  This broke through Wendy's apathy, she
    wanted an abortion.
    
    She had one. I was with her, except in surgery. Mother showed up,
    called me a murderer, and took Wendy home with her.  Wendy still
    does not regret her decision.
    
    Four years later, she was in college and despite precautions became
    pregnant again.  This time, having an abortion was an absolute
    condition of continued support from our parents. [I didn't hear
    about this one until 3 years later; but apparently the 'you can't
    be hanged twice' argument was put forth].
    
    Wendy had another abortion.  She bitterly regrets this decision.
    She suffers from mild depression on what would have been the child's
    birthday.  She is still working through the guilt of having panicked
    and not looked into available options.
    
    In a very real way, Wendy had no Choice in either of these abortions.
    Those in authority in her life told her what she could and couldn't
    do.  The lack of choice in the first case could have cost her her
    life.  The lack of choice in the second has cost her emotional anguish.
    
    At 21 Wendy was married and pregnant when her husband changed his
    mind about wanting a child.  Her continued refusals to abort the
    child culminated one night in a beating that left her with a broken
    jaw, three cracked ribs, and fear that the child would die as he
    had kicked her repeatedly in the stomach.  In this condition, she
    begged hitchhiked to the Atlanta bus terminal and begged fare home
    to my parents.
    
    4-1/2 months later, on the 4th of July no less, she gave birth to
    her perfect daughter.  Wendy does _not_ regret her choice, even
    now that her daughter is 2-1/2, ;^).
    
    Wendy still wants many children. She'll probably have them even
    though she's now _VERY_ cool to the idea of a husband.
    
      Ann
    

    It has been pointed out to me that I entered my reply to Note 392.14,  
    reprinted below, in the FWO version of this string.
    
    I realize that I'm under no obligation to do so, but to keep that
    Note untainted by male hands, I've set it hidden there.  
    
      Alan
   
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Note 392.15           FWO: Making a decision about abortion             15 of 16
FDCV01::ROSS                                          9 lines  28-APR-1989 10:57
                            -< Or Is It Schwartz? >-
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    Re: .14
    
    > Private adoption is not necessarily an automatically 'safe' or less
    > controlling option...case in point...Joel Goldstein and the nightmare
    
    His name is Joel Steinberg, but what the hell, all those Jewish names
    sound similar, anyway.
    
      Alan 

                          <** Moderator Response **>

    Thanks, Alan; I think I can speak for most of them women in here in
    appreciating your courtesy.
    
    						=maggie 

    This is just a reminder to adhere to the request for sensitivity
    expressed in the basenote here, 393.0.  Also, remember that discussion
    of abortion itself belongs in topic 183.
    
    -Jody
    

Re: 392.36

Wow.

Thanks.

It says so many things, so well, so powerfully. Thank her, from me, for letting
you share it.

It brought tears to my eyes.

	-- Charles