Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Hi Judi--
    
    Please see my note 373.2 in this conference.
    
    Also, I am 37, no children, and recently married.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Jane

    Yes!  I'd like to hear from those of you who care to respond.
    Churchgoing/religion has fallen down the list of priorities,
    and we are trying to understand why, and what we can do to meet
    the needs of the people.
    
    Geographic location and religion are not major factors here.  What
    we're trying to find out is why people go to church/follow a religion
    or not.
    
    Thanks,
    Judi
    

    Judi,
    
    I'm 35, divorced, and have 2 children.  A summary of reasons
    for attending or not attending church are at the end.   
    
    I'm still meandering from church to church (with less and less
    frequency) looking for one that feels right for me.
    
    Religious background:  I was brought up as Presbyterian.  Since
    then I have learned that Presbyterianism includes a belief in
    predeterminism, which opposes my own inclinations, but that's
    fairly irrelevant to my religious meanderings.
    
    I've always felt it's important for children to have religion in
    their life, so they can make their own religious decisions as adults.
    My children have gone to church even when I haven't attended, myself,
    but I have never forced them to go.
    
    I wonder how different religions can think theirs is right and others
    are wrong, so when they hold that stance, I feel they're wrong for
    me.  They can't all be right, and I feel that part of religion should
    be tolerance and acceptance of others.  So, I tried Unitarian, which
    basically seems to feel that whatever you believe is okay.  I attended
    Unitarian churches for a while, and very much enjoyed the philosophical
    discussions, and the focus on "these are guidelines to help you
    through your every-day life."  Fire-and-brimstone and eternal damnation
    sermons aren't for me.  I prefer something with concrete relevance
    to my life.  Most sermons seem too abstract for me to be able to
    really get my teeth into.  I quit going to the Unitarian church
    when I moved to Colorado Springs, and in the introductory meeting,
    we were told that if we didn't want to volunteer x-amount of time
    and pledge x-amount of dollars (% of salary), they weren't interested
    in us!  Needless to say, that attitude was very offensive!  This
    in the name of religion??
    
    I tried the Presbyterian church, and found the people to be very
    unfriendly.  My daughter attended a Baptist church with our neighbors.
    They *were* friendly, she continued to go and be active in the
    church, and was baptised.  I supported her, but didn't often go
    with her, because I didn't enjoy the sermons.
    
    I'm getting married soon, and it's important to me to be married
    in a church.  So we'll be married in his church, and will probably
    be more active in the church afterward.
    
    Reasons for going / not going to church:
    
    1)  The content of the sermons - are they *really* relevant to my
        daily life, and do they blatantly conflict with my own beliefs?
    
    2)  Are the people friendly?  Do they talk to strangers, and introduce
        themselves, and tell you they're glad you came to their church?
    
    3)  How obviously greedy is the church?  If all you want is my money,
        forget it!  If you want *me* and make me feel welcome, that's
        a *big* plus!  
                                       
    Paula

    well, i was going to send you mail...but can answer here just as
    easily..so..
    
    I'm 33, no kids...
    I was raised Baptist, but decided in my teenage years there
    was too much hypocrisy (sp?) and my "social" beliefs didn't
    jive with theirs.
    So, thru college I went to one church then another; trying
    Methodist, Presby., Catholic, Church of Christ, Assembly ofGod,
    (yes, I'm from the south, in case you were wondering...)
    But none of them seemed to offer the kind of service/doctrine
    I could agree with.
    Once I started working I attended a Unitarian church with some
    regularity, but haven't continued that since moving to Boston.
    ...that's been nearly 8 years now...
    What am I looking for?  Well, much like (.4) I need the service
    to be relevant, pleasant, challenging, and one I can feel
    comfortable participating in.
    I don't want you asking for my time or money...if you offer me
    the 'fellowship' I'm seeking, I will gladly give you both...
    otherwise forget it.
    Unfortunately I also am a firm believer that the 'mind can
    only absorb as much as the butt can edure' ...so make the
    service a reasonable length of time!
    Also, having services at varying hours is much more to
    my liking.  I often can't make it on Sunday mornings, and
    am too tired to go on Sunday night...so Saturday, or 
    other days are welcome.
    Also, as (.4) indicated, I really expect the people to be
    friendly, outgoing.  If the churchfolk regulars aren't
    happy to be there--why will I???
    And I gave up long ago on those denominations/religions which
    practice the 'I'm right -- your wrong' doctrine.  We all
    have to live our lives to the best of our ability, with the
    guidance from whatever higher power we understand...
    
    oh well, enough...
    
    deb
    

    	28; Male; Single; No Children, No Pets, No Compromise...
    
    	Raised Catholic.  Somewhere around age 14-16 I realized I didn't
    believe in any of it.  Stuck out the weekly attendence til I left
    for college.  Now set foot in churches only when absolutely required.
    I consider services an interesting intellectual exercise in what
    other people are willing to accept.
    
    	I'm comfortable with my own personal beliefs, and don't feel
    I need to be somewhere once a week for my own personal spiritual
    well being.
    
    	Don't believe my religion should apply to anyone else.  I'll
    discuss what I believe, but I won't argue about it.  I resent people
    who try to push their religion on me.  Don't think religion should
    dictate birth control, or eating habits, or how much money you should
    fork over to support the church or anything else like that.
    
    	Don't necessarily believe I'm right, but figure I'm as right
    as anybody else is.
    
    						--Doug

    After reading .7, I have an addendum to .4.
    
    I have my own "religious" beliefs, which are changing as I grow,
    learn, and experience more.  Most organized religions don't allow
    me the freedom and expansion in beliefs that I personally need.
    
    That may be why I prefer churches which allow religious tolerance
    and focus on how to live a "good life."
    
    Paula

    35, male, single, raised Congregationalist
    
    I don't attend church or follow any organized religion because:
    
    (1) There aren't any that I agree with on enough points. I don't
    like subscribing to a "party line", and if I'm not going to go
    along with a party line, why belong to the party?
    
    (2) Most organized religions (some more than others) seem to be
    overly concerned with dogma rather than karma.
    
    (3) I don't feel any great drive to worship in a community
    atmosphere. My faith is between me and God and no one else.
    
    --- jerry

    21, Married, No Children (Yet), Raised Episcopal
    
    I used to attend church weekly with mom and brother. (Dad didn't
    attend, his church is in his own heart)  Since moving to New Hampshire 
    (12 years ago) I hadn't found a church, more importantly, a Priest,
    I cared for.  Just recently I began to attend a Roman Catholic church 
    in the area, because in college I attended Roman Catholic masses.  
    (almost exactly the same as Episcopal)  I finally found a church 
    that I can go to and really feel like that's where I belong.  I now 
    go weekly because it is what I enjoy, not something that is forced.  
    I have joined the parish, and will be confirmed on Easter Sunday.    
    
    In case it wasn't really clear, I stopped attending because I moved
    not because I no longer wanted to go.  But I must admit, I could
    probably tried a little harder. (tee hee)  Although, I was only
    9 at the time, that makes it a little tough to check out other
    churhces.  
    
    -Michelle-
    

    25, divorced, no children, raised Catholic
    
    I haven't attended church since my divorce, I don't feel welcome.
    Even prior to that I virtually stopped going (except Christmas/Easter)
    when I moved out of my parents house. My decision was influenced
    inpart by my mother, who I feel to be a hypocrite about religion,
    she's left a bad taste in my mouth about what it means to be Catholic.
    
    The second reason would be my need to question authority, I can
    not feel comfortable with the ritualistic part of attending
    church. 
    
    The third factor would be that I disagree with many of the
    rules sent down from the Vatican. They are men (people) making these
    rules, not God. In my mind I know that God understands that I worship
    him in my own way and live an acceptable lifestyle.
    
    I feel that if/when I have children I will want them to be exposed
    to oganized religion. But I will never force it down there throats,
    it would only makes them resent it. 
    
    I will need to be self motivated to return to a church, I suspect
    I will follow a common pattern of returning when I have children
    to bring.
    
    Gail 

    39, female, divorced, one 15 yr. old daughter
    
    Religious Background: combination of Methodist & Congregationalist
    
    I consider myself to be an agnostic and have as little to do with
    organized religion as possible.  In my opinion organized religion
    has caused more harm and suffering in the world than it has good.
     I don't want to go into the details of why I believe this but I'm
    sure everyone has heard this opinion before and heard reasons why
    people feel this way.  Organized religion just hasn't done enough
    to help the wrongs of the world (crime, injustice, etc.) or enough
    to stop man's inhumanity to man (the haulocaust, slavery, racial
    discrimination, what's going on in S. Africa today, sexism, war).
     Organized religion is, also, to my mind just one more way of a
    few people getting a lot of power and keep the masses in line, and
    ignorant (birth control, sensoring books, etc.)  To be perfectly
    honest, it disgusts me.  I also hate the emphasis on being good
    so you'll get to heaven and live forever.  I believe people should
    want to be good to one another just because they want other people
    to have as happy lives as they want for themselves, and not just
    because they''re hoping for a chance at immortality.
    
    I also hate the fact that the welfare of animals plays such a small
    part in the organized religions of the world.  What about the other
    living creatures on the earth, besides self-centered humans?  I
    remember as a teenager seeing a picture of Billy Graham hunting
    with Lyndon Johnson and it made me want to puke.  This guy gets
    up on television and tells everyone how to live a better life and
    be better people and get to heaven, etc., and then goes out and
    murders innocent animals.  The hypocrisy makes me sick.
    
    I've also seen too many so-called religious people in my life go
    to church, and then turn around and treat their fellow humans like
    dirt.  I went to a Methodist sunday school for 6 years as a kid.
     At the end of the 8th grade I knew I didn't want to join the church.
     I told my parents I was quitting and they said the choice was up
    to me.  By then I had started reading books by people such as Henry
    David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Ghandi, Bertrand Russell, and
    the poetry of Walt Whitman, Carl Sandburg, and Robert Frost.  That
    was enough to let me know that there were a lot more ideas going
    around out there in the world than what I had ever heard of in the
    Methodist church.
    
    My ex-husband was raised Catholic, but left the church because he
    didn't agree with many of it's rules.  We got married by a JP, and
    when our daughter was born she was not baptised or christened in
    any church.  I'm proud of that.  She has not been exposed to any
    religious training, but I'd challenge anybody to find another 15
    yr. old girl, who is a nicer person or more decent human being than
    my daughter is.
    
    My ex-in-laws are born again Catholics, and many of my mother's
    relatives in Florida are born again Nazarene's.  I have become very
    sick of this type of talk in my life and have very little patience
    with religious talk.
    
    Lorna
    

    Just add me as a "ditto" to .12 (Lorna) as to why I'm not attending
    a church.  Organized religions insult me, especially in their treat-
    ment of women ( was raised Catholic so I found this out REAL soon).
    
    When I was in my 20's, I met an incredible person (and a paraplegic)
    who taught me about reincarnation and that made a great deal of
    sense to me and still does.
    
    But my BOTTOM LINE belief system is more simpler than even
    reincarnation.  It says that you do good because it is the right
    thing to do.  What happens if - instead of finding out there is
    a god, we find out that there is NO god, do we all go crazy and
    behave even worse than we do now?
    
    A thought occurred to me recently, if *I* were god, I would not
    want "my creation" to be concerned with constructing buildings 
    and taking time of their lives just to be concerned with pleasing
    me (OR asking for favors).  *I* would want them to be concerned
    about their fellow beings and in trying to make the word PROGRESS
    mean something.
    
    Therefore, I make difficult decisions based on what I consider to
    be the "right/moral" thing to do.  I don't view it from the stand-
    point of whether or not I'm going to heaven or hell.
    
    Oh, 40, divorced, no kids, live alone 
    
    Charlotte
    

    I was baptised Roman Catholic (my mother was an RC *yankee*)
    raised in the south by a Fundamentalist Baptist grandmother,
    married a fallen-away RC by a Baptist minister, joined the
    Episcopal church shortly after my 1st child's birth (she
    was baptised in the Episcopal church) and my husband joined
    the Episcopal church 10 years later.  All 4 children baptised
    and raised in the "normal mode" of Sunday school etc.  None
    attend today, my husband's funeral was from the Episcopal church.
    
    I joined Trinity at Copley in Boston 3 years ago, and attend at
    the evening services as often as possible.  
    
    I am not sure if I attend because of faith--I believe, help thou
    my unbelief is my general attitude--or because I truly love the
    dignity and history of the Episcopal church--or because my happiest
    days doing work in a church was in Virginia--or because I long for
    the times that I am able to step out of myself into the mystery
    of the communion service--I have no real idea.  All of that, and
    more.  But does it add up to a strong, definitive belief in all
    that the Church purports to teach as *true religion*?  I doubt
    it.
    
    Church attendence and religious beliefs are generally very subjective
    issues.  
    
    For a survey, I wonder if this won't be a useless answer.  But I
    thought I would add my 2c worth anyway.  
    
    Marilyn
   
    

46, male, no children, baptised Lutheran, confirmed Episcopalian.
      guess i'm now sortof a pantheist...

Attended church/Sunday School regularly through High
School...  continued past my senior year 'cause it
was a good place to meet my girl/woman friend who
lived under very strict rules...
Stopped when the realationship ended because I didn't 
believe what "they" were/are dishing out.

It's taken me this long to finally understand the root causes
of my dissatisfaction
    "they" interpret religious
      metaphor as historical fact, 
    "they" insist on acting as intermediary
      between me and the deity, thereby preventing me
      from any meaningful experience
    to maintain their power, "they" act
      as guardians of the secular status quo

    /bruce

    I am 41, married, 5 daughters, I am LDS (Mormon).
    
    I was born into the church, drifted away, then after wondering around
    like a lost soul, came back into the fold.  I love my faith.  It
    makes me stronger everyday.  I don't find that religion has to be
    a hinderance in our growth.  Instead, my life has unfolded and I
    have found new meaning.
    
    I don't believe in pressing others to believe as I do.  I feel good
    about what I believe.  Instead of being weighted down by the guilt
    that is sometimes passed on by other religions, I believe that we are 
    all here to make choices and what we are in respect to humankind,
    is governed by the choices we make.  My church makes no demands upon
    me that I feel are illogical or too difficult.  Instead, I find
    a peace with those who choose to worship with me and know that we
    are all brothers and sisters.  It feels good.
    
    Louise 
    
    

    
    
    I am 33, married, 4 children, I am a Buddist.
    
    I was baptized Luthern, took first Communion as an Episcapalian
    and stopped going to church in my early 20's.  For me Christian
    religions just didn't explain why some people were born poor, crippled
    or suffer so greatly in this life.  When my oldest two children
    went through a really terrible experience it further drove me from
    a belief in a God.
    
    5 years ago I met a person who talked about a 'religion' that actively
    worked for world peace and believed in Karma.  I looked into it
    and I found that it held the answers I had been looking for a long
    time.   
    
    I like the religion because:
    
    1. I take responcibilty for my life and have the power to change
       it to be the best for me.
    
    2. It promotes the theory that I can change the world by changing
       by little peice of it.
    
    3. This particular religious sect has never been involved with any
       armed conflict in the name of 'educating the masses to there
       wrongs'
    
    susan

    WM, 35, single, no kids. Raised RC, dabbled in Taoism, now
    convinced atheist.
    
    As Rand pointed out, faith and reason are opposite. I chose sides.
    
    Dana Charbonneau

    33, married, 2 kids, atheist.
    
    I was born and raised a Roman Catholic. My experiences with organized
    religion are very similar to that of Lorna and several other noters,
    so nowadays when I go to church, it's only to listen to concerts,
    or to admire the stained glass windows or the architecture.
    
    My husband is also an atheist. Both our girls were not baptized
    and are not raised in any religious belief, though they have received
    a fair amount of informational data on the "main" religions, and
    have been told that they are perfectly welcome to join a church or 
    believe in a higher being. Melinda (15) doesn't believe in anything
    and can't be bothered. Laure (9) believes in God and Jesus, but
    religion bores her (her own words, not mine!)
    
    Joana
    

	32, Single, raised RC. Currently non-practicing RC...

	There are a lot of things in the RC that I do not agree with.
	However, I am unconvinced that there isn't any superior
	being(s).

	Organised religions do not currently fulfil any needs in my 
	life that are not better met from other sources.

					Tom_K

    29, Female, Divorced, one 2 yr old son
    
    Baptized Methodist but raised and confirmed Episcopalian.  I attended 
    services pretty regularly into my early teens before teaching Sunday
    school classes into my late teens.
    
    I've was always fairly active in the Church-sponsored activities.  As
    mentioned in earlier replies, I look for the warmth and fellowship of
    the other people, and I've always found it.  My attendence has dropped
    drastically over the last few years due primarily because I am not
    presently driving for medical reasons.
    
    My son was also baptized and will be raised in the Episcopal Church
    until he is old enough to decide for himself.
    
    Beckie

    31, female, 1 son (almost 14 months), married
    
    I was baptised a Catholic (in Germany, my mother grew up in an orphange
    run by nuns).  I went to a Catholic church with an older couple that
    were neighbors (my twin also went) when I was about 4 or 5.  My parents
    (I believe) just wanted us out of the house so that why we went with
    Flo and Joe.  I started Sunday School at the church when I was 6.  I
    hated it.  I was very naive (since my parents didn't have any interest)
    and was made to feel stupid because I didn't know who Jesus was.  I was
    always so scared (so was my sister).  After awhile, when Flo and Joe 
    sent us to the classroom, we would sneak out and wait by the car.
    We eventually stopped going, I'm don't remember exactly when or why.
    
    We moved to another town when I was 9 and was told by my parents to go
    find a church to go to on Sundays.  We (twin and myself) were told to 
    ask a friend where they go.  That's when we started going to a
    Protestant church (1st congregational)  I loved it.  I had perfect
    attendance until my teenage years and was involved with fellowship,
    which I loved.  
    
    My son was baptised Protestant although we don't attend a church at
    the present time, I want to start when my son gets a bit older.
    
    Anna
    
    

    
    
    Age 42, 3 boys, 1 Girl, married, I was raised Episcopal, my wife
    Roman Catholic.
    
    I was very active in the Church until I left for the Army.  Just
    after my return I discovered that several members of the church
    were playing politics and were undermining the Priest!  This shot
    my entire faith in religion.
    
    Looking closer I firmly believe that humans would love to believe
    there is some superior type being that rules the universe. Who's
    to say the Indians with their Maniotu, or Buddhism, or Judism and
    so on isn't THE correct religion. 
    
    I'd like to believe there is some form of supreme being, so I guess
    I'm Agnostic.  
    
    To me it's following a simple rule.  Treat others as you would like
    yourself treated.
    
    I go to church as many of the others do, only if absolutely necessary.
    
    Cal.
    

   Age 24, married, no children, (two dogs)

   Raised Jewish, in that I was sent to after-school Hebrew
   School for a year, and for the next two years attended a
   Hebrew Day School (half a day of regular school, half a
   day of religious classes). Although I had a religious
   education, my family did very little  that  I associate
   with religion: sure, we received our presents on Chanukah
   instead of Christmas and we lit a menorah, but we never
   observed the Sabbath, or kept kosher, or went to synagogue
   (it was too boring for my father).

   I remember that even in fourth grade, I just didn't believe
   in a god. I placed as much belief in the "God" as I did
   in the Greek Myths I'd read; it was something that primitive
   people believed in long ago. Needless to say, I argued an awful
   lot with my religious school instructors :-) I still don't
   believe in a god or any type of superior being.

   I've always had much difficulty with the hypocrisy I found in 
   the religious leaders and teachers I knew personally. To put
   it mildly, they were not nice people. Somehow, it didn't matter
   what you did, or who you hurt, as long as you went to church or
   synagogue, prayed, and believed. Perhaps part of my problem is
   that when I was growing up Jewish in South Florida, there were so many 
   people trying to "save" me, telling me that I'd burn...
   I didn't understand. If there were a god, wouldn't he/she look
   favorably upon those who were good because it was right to be that way,
   rather than upon those who were good only out of a fear of "burning
   in hell"?

   Anyway, I consider myself an Atheist. I was married by a JP, and
   my father, therefore, almost didn't attend the wedding. Somehow,
   he thinks that my denial of a belief in a god has something to do
   with the Holocaust. Don't ask.

   Obviously, I don't attend church (or synagogue) because I don't
   worship a superior being. Also, the synagogues and churches I've
   been more familiar with have been much too concerned about taking
   my money than saving my soul.

	 23, single, no kids (and don't want any)

	 I was raised as a Christian (First Christian Church, then
	 later the Church of Christ).  It was not until my youth group
	 was infiltrated by the Crossroads Movement (if you want info,
	 send mail) that I began to question a lot of my teachings.

	 I was always taught that our church was THE church and that
	 the Bible was law. When I finally began questioning my
	 beliefs, I can up with the following beliefs which I hold
	 today.

	 1) The Bible has been translated MANY MANY times and the
	 contents thereof cannot nearly be intact enough for me to
	 take every sentence as being law.

	 2)  The Bible consists mainly of stories, and letters and
	 recounts of things that happened in Biblical times.  The
	 people of that time lacked guidance and needed strict rules
	 as to how to live their lives.  I feel a lot of what the
	 Bible demands was strictly as a result of the way things were
	 in that time.  1989 is not anything like 50 AD...While
	 I believe the scriptures of the Bible, I interpret them in
	 my own way and apply them to my life in my own way--if they
	 apply at all.

	 (for example: sex before marriage...there was no safe way to
	 prevent a child from being conceived at that time.  Without a
	 father in that time it was near impossible to support a child.
	 Things are very different now...hence I do not feel this
	 'rule' is essentially valid anymore.)

	 3)  Everyone is different, and without divine guidance from
	 God, the scriptures can not be interpreted correctly by any
	 one individual.  Hence, I tend to resent a preacher standing
	 at a podium TELLING me how I should interpret a given
	 scripture.  I want the ability to interpret it myself and how
	 it applies to my life.

	 4)  There is no one church by which people must attend to be
	 'admitted' to heaven.  I feel that if a person lives their
	 life truly believing they respect the Lord and are fulfilling his
	 wishes, they will be granted passage into the kingdom of heaven.  


	 I do not attend church...I feel I can worship the Lord by the
	 way I live my life.  When/If there comes a time when I need
	 the spiritual support attending church can give me, I will
	 go...usually to a Church of Christ because that is what I am
	 familiar/comfortable with.  If (God forbid) I ever have
	 children they will be given every opportunity to experience
	 every form of religion they wish...I will not hide anything
	 from them, but I will not force anything on them either.  


	 kathy

    31, married, no children, 3 cats, 2 dogs.
    
    I was raised to think for myself.  We attended a Unitarian church
    until my brother and I decided we didn't see any point to it.
    
    If pushed I'd say I am technically an agnostic, because I admit
    the possibility of the existance of God, but I don't believe it,
    so feel like an athiest.
    
    I particularly object to hypocrisy, and to people who can't believe
    that I can be a good person without fearing God's retribution.  I
    think that people should be good to each other for no other reason
    than that we're all people and must share this planet.
    
    Interestingly, I was talking to my father about this last time I
    visited, and he told me something which may have influenced my
    beliefs.  He said that they first sent my brother and I to a 
    Lutheran Sunday school, because my mother was raised Lutheran.
    I came home crying one day because I'd done something wrong and
    the sunday school teacher told me "Jesus won't love you if you
    do that".  I don't remember the incident, but Dad said they
    never made us go back.
    
    Karen.

    re:.27
    
    � "Jesus won't love you if you do that" �
    
    No, *that* is hilarious!  Don't they know their own faith?  Isn't
    Jesus supposed to "love the sinners" no matter what they do?
    
    --- jerry

    
    	   I gave up on the Baptist church at the age of 14.  I was
    	the first in my family to do so, but the rest soon followed.
    
    	   I'm 28 years old now, and my feelings have grown stronger
    	on the matter.  Not only do I not attend church regularly,
    	I avoid it actively.  My neighbor is forever trying to drag
    	me to church, "just so you can see what this church is like...
    	it's not like other churches."  
    
    	   My pat answer to why I left the church is that it is filled
    	to the brim with hypocrits.  In fact, it also has a lot to do
    	with the fact that I am a very self-sufficient person with no
    	need for religion to dictate what is right and wrong for me.
    	I grew weary of the sermons, always revolving around the basic
    	concepts of good and evil and how they affect various aspects
    	of your life.  In short, I just got bored.
    
    	   Since then, I have stepped back from religion considerably,
    	and have seen how the masses are molded and controlled by the
    	churches.  It bothers me to see the political power of the
    	churches.  I see religion serving less and less of a Godly
    	purpose, and more and more of a political purpose.
    
    	   Another thing that bothers me about the cburch is the way
    	they use brainwashing techniques to 'soften' the crowd.  That
    	smacks of mind control, and the only one I want controlling
    	MY mind is me.  
    
    	   There, in part, are the reasons I eschew religion.  There
    	are other reasons, of course, but these are the main ones.
    
    	- Greg

    
    About three weeks ago I attended the christening of my next 
    oldest brothers youngest daughter (about 7 months old).  As
    young adults we were both very active in the church (Episcopal)
    
    Although exposed to several different religions I never really
    looked at them objectively until I was 15.  At that age I
    attended a boarding school in Jamaica.  Although we were supposed
    to attend the church of our choice it was pretty easy to skip out
    and attend a bar instead.  It was during these bar sessions
    and subsequent walks to and from that I began to discuss religion
    with friends of mine.  From that time I've nurtured my own beliefs
    centered around nature and the laws of science being the only
    governing power of our universe.
    
    What really amazed me from this last church attendance is something
    I hadn't noticed before.  Along with the christening was a full
    communion service (something I've attended at least 100 times
    in the past).  During the whole service there is not one mention
    of the beautiful earth we live on.  Not about the sky or the
    mountains or the woods.  Nothing about the wonderful animals who
    share our planet.  Unlike other religions - notably those of
    the Native Americans and various primitive tribes around the
    world as well as some of the eastern influences - Christianity
    is devoid of expressing the beauty of the world we live in.
    
    My own opinon  (no need to flame...)
    
    Luis
    

    re .30
    
    Luis,
    
    The Prayer book used by the Episcopalian church in America includes
    several prayers which reference ' a reverence for this fragile Earth
    our island home ' or words approximating this.  This week the priest
    was constrained to use the prayers dedicated to the sacrament of
    baptism.
    
    Additionally, members of my Episcopal congregation have established
    a recycling effort to allow the youth group to be self sufficient.
    
    I have not yet read the base note; so my response is limited to
    only the items above.
    
    Don
     

    
    I was baptised Presbyterian (my parents were brought up Presbyterian
    and Church of Christ), raised and confirmed Congregationalist. I grew
    up in a community that was 85% Jewish, 10% Catholic and 5% others. As
    one of the 'others', I gained an appreciation for alternate spritual
    approaches (in addition to an appreciation for being an 'other'). The
    church I grew up in was very large and very liberal, having an attitude
    towards dogma lax even by Congregationalist standards. As such, I
    believe in the spiritual aspect to our lives and see churches in
    general as being good things insofar as they strive to promote
    spirituality. As others have noted, however, a disturbing proportion of
    churches seem to spend far more energy on telling you what you *should*
    believe rather than helping you on your own spiritual journey. While
    living in Pittsburgh, I finally got myself to go to a Quaker (Society
    of Friends) meeting (having, over the years, attended a number of
    different services at a variety of churches, not particularly on a
    quest, simply out of a general interest). As some of you may know,
    Quakers have no doctrine, no clergy, no 'service' to speak of. My
    mother, quite happy at the Congregationalist church, asks, 'well, but
    what do you *believe* in?' To which the true Quaker replies, 'I may
    personally believe in many things: God, Jesus, Good and Evil, but the
    Society of Friends believes only that each of us is a Child of the
    Light and it is our joy to seek spiritual truth'. So anyway, I list
    myself as Quaker (as does Lauren, my spouse, who was raised
    Presbyterian). Now, as it happens, we practically never go to meeting
    and do all sorts of things that, strictly speaking are considered very
    un-Quakerish (e.g. drinking and gambling- which are frowned upon not
    because they are terribly immoral per se, but because they interfere
    with the Inner Light and the search for spiritual truth). We contribute
    extremely sporadically to the financial side of the meeting and are not
    listed as official members. It's one of those things I keep saying I'll
    get around to. On the other hand, I follow some other traditional
    Quaker modes of behavior, not taking oaths, pacifism, etc. Ultimately,
    I guess I feel that I would rather be a bad Quaker than anything else.
    
    I should also mention that through some of the discussions here in =wn=
    I've become very interested in pre-patriarchal religions and have
    included their study in my spiritual contemplations.