Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I think that males are told early on the uncertainty/insecurity
    is the sign of cowardice or weakness.  Girls, on the other hand,
    seem to (often by nature of their play) "aim to please".  I was
    taught to "go play in the housekeeping/doll corner", to carry the
    hors doeuvres at family gatherings, to always question how well
    I waas doing (either verbally, or non-verbally).  Without that
    assurance (particularly among a group of other girls) - there would
    be no support, and thus I was not "okay".  Girls routinely
    ostracized one another based on rules that seemed to fluctuate on
    a day-to-day basis.  Whatever the "leader" thought was cool, was
    cool - and there was a definite pecking order set up.  Of course,
    a pecking order can have only one leader, so I learned to be submissive
    (another thing that was "appreciated" in girls).  
    
    For a long time I doubted my self-worth, my abilities, and *most
    important of all* I REFUSED (for some odd reason) TO OWN MY SUCCESSES.
    Yes, I was aware that I did good things.  But for some reason I
    thought they were flukes.  I was convinced they were not something
    I could repeat, that I was not responsible for the achievements.
    The first step towards overcoming an insecure self-image is to own your
    successes - realize that your capabilities are often only limited
    by your beliefs in your own boundaries.  Expand the boundaries,
    and your capabilities often increase.  You will grow to fill the
    requirements you place on yourself (within reason, of course - start
    small, then find the sky's the limit).
    
    Also, I went through a good deal of time over a period of several
    years when I was the only female in an all-male shop in high school.
    I did not feel I was as good as the men, because they set out to
    make me feel this way (most likely unintentionally, it was perhaps
    their conditioning).  I was uncertain and insecure.  How could I
    explain all the feelings I had - when I was surrounded by bravado
    and certainty.  But once I could speak with other women - I found
    I was not alone.  The key to owning your own abilities and successes
    often comes with the realization that you are not alone, you are
    not the only one, and it's okay to be unsure.  Absorb the feedback
    that people give you, and really *listen* to their compliments.
    Tell *yourself* that you are okay (you really are, you know, and
    you're probably better than "just okay", too!).  Spend time with
    yourself, spend effort on yourself, do what *you* want for a change.
    Many women spend too much time doing for others, which tends to
    lower the self-image, and force them to gain the picture they hold
    of themselves only from the words of others.  Listen to yourself,
    talk to yourself, know yourself, grow yourself.
    
    -Jody
    

    This note hits home for me.  I go through phases-- periods of
    self-doubt bring on the shyness and then I go through periods when
    I'm feeling good about myself and feel more outgoing.  It's the
    strangest thing I've ever had to deal with.  I'm keenly aware of
    my moods when it comes to this yet I have no way of overcoming my
    periods of self-doubt.  I practically have to force myself to look
    people in the eye when I'm feeling low.  
    
    I think a lot of my problem stems from the fact I was raised to
    be submissive.  This was the way it was for my English-born and
    raised mother.  I was also the 5th of 6 children (my only brother
    is the 2nd child).  At holidays and family gatherings I observe
    carefully each person's behavior.  WE WERE ALL RAISED TO BE SOMEWHAT
    SUBMISSIVE REGARDLESS OF SEX. 
    
    Now that I am aware of my problem and where it comes from, I have
    to make an effort to overcome this shyness (that feels overwhelming
    at times).                                                
    
    There I days I feel I am making tremendous strides and then there
    are days that I feel taken advantage of and walked over yet do not
    speak up because of the way I was brought up. This bottled-up anger
    will then explode at a time that is not the best time.
    
    I'd be curious to know how other (recovering) submissive people
    deal with this type of anger....
    
    
    

    
    	I think shyness is due primarily to not enough self-confidence
    and low self-esteem.                         
    
    	I was shy when I was younger.  I know that because when I
    was introduced to anyone by my parents and siblings it would
    be this is my child, she's shy, or this is my sister she's
    shy.  So I knew I was shy.  As I grew up, I found that
    being shy wasn't exactly the best thing in the world to be,
    especially in the business world.  So I examined why I was
    shy and discovered to my surprise (:-0!) that I had no
    self-confidence and very low self-esteem.  
    
    	High self-esteem and confidence don't come easy.  I think
    that as Jody suggested you have to talk with yourself, find out
    what you're good at and excel in that and tackle the problem
    head on.  Do difficult things.  Even something as small as
    going somewhere you are not comfortable with a friend is a
    step in the right direction.  And when you've done something
    pat yourself on the back.  The more difficult it was for
    you, the more you pat yourself on the back.  Over time perhaps
    you can build up some confidence and raise your self esteem. 
    
    	Today, I really can not describ myself as shy, however, when
    I am out of my comfort zone, I tend to go back to exhibiting the
    behaviors that was comforable when I was shy.  But I continue to
    try because I really believe that being shy is neither profitable
    nor productive.
    
    Veronica.
    

    I read a book reporting studies done of youngsters - under 10,
    fer sure - but exactly which ages I don't remember.
     
    One of the conclusions was that young boys are encouraged in taking
    risks, "failure" being neither here nor there. Young girls, on the
    other hand, are generally encouraged NOT to take chances, and to
    always be "right".
    
    Girls are also discouraged from taking physical risks - climbing
    trees, jumping *out* of trees, etc. Boys are encouraged to do so.
    
    Certainly, individuals of either sex may have experienced different
    things, but the conclusion as always, was of a general trend.
    
    I think a non-risk-taking style is learned early (*everything* may be
    learned early), and it's very difficult to overcome this reluctance
    in adulthood, when one realizes that rules of all the games we play
    (corporate and otherwise) were written by the people who were trained
    in a risk-TAKING style, rather than the risk-AVOIDANCE style *we*
    learned.
    
    --DE
    

I feel shy a lot of the time. Most of the time no one can tell but me. 
(Unless I'm called upon unexpectedly to speak in front of a large 
group of people. ;) ) I think my self esteem is just fine, though it 
wasn't when I was growing up. 

I kind of believe that everyone feels shy sometimes, even if they 
don't show it. 

Jenny

    last month I took a class called "collaborative politics".  It was
    one of the most eye opening experiences in my life.  In the class
    the instructor explained that there are indeed male and female
    polictics.  The differences start in childhood as most of us are
    deeply aware. Boys/men are taught from youngsterhood that they must
    compete against other boys/men in order to succeed. through sports
    they are taught the power of teamwork. They know how to make the
    rest of the team notice them.  They are taught that if they fail
    or fall and hurt themselves, get up, try again, and again till you
    succeed.   Girls/women are taught to be singular,
    nurturing, giving.  girls/women as a rule were not taught to compete,
    how to be team players etc.  now that we are "allowed" into the
    male arenas, we are saying "treat me as a equal". Since we were
    not taught to continue to try till we succeed, we have a tendancy
    to add the line---- "but don't hurt me".  so if for some reason
    we fail at an endevor, instead of trying again and not taking the
    failure personally, we have to "heal" or hurt and maybe try again
    if the risk is not going to hurt.  From what I have seen, this is
    true for all women.  we don't know the male political policy and
    procedures so everything we do we have to work harder at to succeed
    whereas if we just worked like the men and followed the game plans,
    we would succeed everyday.
    I have applied many of the concepts in my business life since the
    class and the difference was a lightening bolt difference.  the
    good thing about the whole change is I never, ever once compromised
    on my womanness or my self esteem.   
    
    vivian
    

    re:.1
    
    A lot of what you say, Jody, is true for me as well.
    
    I'm very shy (at least in person), and tend to be very quiet in
    the presence of people I don't know well. A lot of this is linked
    with a lack of self-confidence and -esteem.
    
    --- jerry

    As a child I was shy because I was afraid of saying the wrong thing.
    In High school, I didn't care what others thought of me (they didn't
    like me anyway) so I became a little more outgoing, but still had
    a very low self-esteem.  A year after graduation, my (then-boyfrind,
    now husband) helped me out by convincing me into a new hairstyle,
    nice clothes, and good attitude.  Now I like myself, and others
    like me, too.
    
    Last year I received two quotes that helped me also:
    
    	"When you recognize that you are the one in charge of your life,
    you will be way ahead of where you would be if you think of your
    life as something that just happens to you."    - ?
    
    	"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." 
    - Eleanor Roosevelt
    
    For the record, I had such a low self-esteem in high school, I hit
    the first stages of Anorexia.  At 100 lbs, I thought that I was
    very overweight. (I am 5').  Thank God that it was pick up on in
    time!  I ended up having to gain 20 lbs.  I look back at photos
    of me at that time and shudder.  I am still on a strict diet.
    
    K.C.

re: .2

I'm working with inappropriate anger right now, so I thought I might have
something to share of value. I don't seem to be a very submissive person :-),
but my anger does indeed come from overvaluing the opinions and wishes of
others. Some of the things I've done:

1. Recognised my anger. I didn't use the word 'angry'. I was pissed, miffed,
excited, anything but angry!

2. Talk about the situations when I was angry to a trusted friend, lover, or
therapist. Get validated that my emotions are/were ok. Being angry is _ok_! It
means something. For me, it often means I care. 

3. Then, go on to think about how I can better wield my anger. It's ok to be
angry. But it's dumb to piss off somebody that I want something with. Talk
about what I can do next time the same situation arises.

4. Try to recognise my anger in real time. That's where I am now. I see it
after the fact. I'd like to see it during (or even coming). Then I can learn
more about myself by thinking about what I want in real time, and trying to get
it.

I highly reccomend 'Getting to Yes'. It's helping me things in terms of
win-win, instead of win-lose.
	Mez

    
    	   For those who think only women are shy, allow me to set
    	you straight on that point.  Men are often shy too.  
    
    	   And I don't buy this stuff about low self-esteem and
    	poor self-image.  I know I'm God's gift to the earth, and
    	I'm still shy. ;^)
    
    	   Don't ask me why, but I find it awkward to feign interest
    	in meeting other people who want to tell me their boring
    	life's story over cocktails in a noisy bar.  I'd much rather
    	just sit here at home and write provactive notes, in the 
    	safety of my Aimes chair where YOU can't touch me.  That way
    	I get to read your mind without having to be bothered by the
    	interpersonal protocols of close contact (breathe away from
    	their face, look into the eyes, wipe that stringer from your
    	nose, don't spit when you talk, etc, ad absurdum).
    
    	   Someone once told me that only the shy people note heavily.
    	If there's any truth in that statement, I'm about the shyest
    	guy around. ;^)
    
    	- Greg

    I remember that as a kid, up until the age of 15, I was extremely
    shy - soft-spoken, did not participate well in a group, tended to
    listen instead of talk, etc.
    
    What happened at age 15?
    
    I entered a school for the deaf - a place where I could finally
    have a chance to understand EVERYTHING around me, who was saying
    what to whom, what the teacher was saying (instead of an 85 percent
    comprehension, I was getting 100%), and so on.  The medium of
    communication for the school was sign language...  (The first 2
    months were rough - learning was hard - after that, all uphill!)
    
    In terms of friends, I was finally "equal" to those around me -
    we could communicate on a peer level, and there was no "well, you'll
    have to do this for me, but you don't need me to do this for you"
    types of things, like facing me when you speak...  Suddenly, I was
    in a place where *everybody* was facing you all the time, out of
    simple visual necessity...
    
    In retrospect, that experience gave me the boost I needed to "take
    control" of myself in less-than-advantageous situations, like when
    a person does not know sign.  Sometimes the "control" that is exerted
    is simple, like choosing the first chair at a table (or "steering"
    her to the opposite chair :^) and they never notice.  Indeed, it
    is often unconcious for me, now.  Other times, things like "would
    it be alright if I turn on this light, so that I can see your face
    better?" are often met with quick acquiesance...  The confirmation
    that I'm paying attention in such a dedicated way never hurts what
    they're saying, either...
    
    I digress.
    
    My basic point is that perhaps shyness is often apparent when the
    person feels at a disadvantage.  It takes a major kick in the a**
    for that person to overcome, and take control of the situation and
    even things out...
    
    Low self-esteem?  Poor self-image?  Hmm.  Sometimes you know you're
    good, and you know you can do it, but you are afraid you won't be
    able to "defend" your efforts adequately...
    
    Bill

    I am not exactly shy.  I'm inexperienced enough with social forms
    to take them seriously.  I don't like most chit-chat because it
    feels so artificial.  A simple "Nice talking to you" becomes an
    obligation instead of a real sentiment.  So, in most purely social
    occasions, I'm not terribly comfortable among relative strangers.
    (This is why I don't go to many parties and don't stay long at the
    ones I do attend.)  Put me in with a group of friends or get me
    talking on something I know about and I'm fine.

re .11

    Bravo for you, Bill!  ALthough my hearing loss is only 25%, I
    sympathize with much of what you say -- I wear hearing-aids,
    ask my employer to provide a volume control on my phone, ask
    people to turn down volume on stereos, etc.  (For those of
    you fortunate enough not to have a hearing loss, it is
    weirdly true that a person with a hearing loss often feels
    pain at a lower decibel level than others.)  I particularly
    dislike big noisy parties, or having to try to follow what's
    happening in any group of more than about 6-7 people.

    Keep it up -- they'll never know you used to be "shy"!

    -- Linda

    
    re .12
    
    More's the pity... Breakthroughs occur when you take risks.
    Staying safe doesn't yield any breakthroughs. 
    
    So only friends are worth listening to..?
    

    re: .14
    
    Would it be fair to say that breakthroughs *often* occur when
    one takes risks - sometimes breakdowns are the result, no?
    This isn't to praise "staying safe" per se and I can think
    of few regulars to this conference who could speak more
    personally to the breakthrough and growth possibilities
    of wise� risk-taking than you, Bob.  I suspect that I'm
    hardly the only person who's noticed that the fy '89 version
    of Bob Holt is a *very* different person from the '88 version
    (imo, changes for the better) and, though you didn't make a
    big deal about it at the time, I do recall the risk (mucho
    high-intensity seminar) taken to make the breakthrough.
    
    Still, I don't think Chelsea said that ". . .only friends are
    worth listening to.." but that it's easier for her to be
    open with those perceived as friends; seems to me that's
    a fairly normal response.  Then too, I think that, like
    a game of chess, the "right" move at the "wrong" time can
    be disastrous.  I'd hazard a guess that for most folks, there's
    a time for "staying safe" and a time for "taking risks" 
    (". . .turn, turn, turn. . ." McGuinn, MacGuire, et al.).
    
    I think that "staying safe" is only a "problem" when a person
    feels that no other options are open; the self-perceived
    ability to choose to take a risk makes all the difference.
    
    Steve                       

    � I'd describe "wise" risk-taking as that which is carefully
      considered in terms of possible benefits weighed agains possible 
      losses, alternative actions, and timing.

    Re: .14
    
    >More's the pity... Breakthroughs occur when you take risks.
    >Staying safe doesn't yield any breakthroughs. 
    
    Gee, somehow that had never, ever, ever occurred to me ....
    
    >So only friends are worth listening to..?
    
    Hardly.  I'm simply not comfortable among most new people.  Certainly
    not when the new people outnumber the old people.  I'm also not
    comfortable among larger groups of people (like more than 10-20).
    Essentially, I'm a hermit.  The disadvantages of not having a varied
    social life, but the advantages of being comfortable with one's
    own company.