Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I've read Linda Glover's report, and it is fascinating, interesting
    and thought-provoking.  Some of her comments regarding women-only
    support groups were intriguing and surprisingly relevant to this
    conference.
    
    I urge anyone who can to go see this presentation, or at least
    obtain a copy of Linda's report (it's about 25 printed pages).  Note
    that the recommendations are to Bill Heffner's organization (mainly,
    ZKO), but the conclusions are applicable around the company.  I
    imagine you can send mail to Linda at UCOUNT::GLOVER asking for
    a copy.
    
    I was unable to attend the original presentation - I will try to make
    this next one.
    
    				Steve

    Women's Psychological Development:  Theory and Application          
    
    All Colloquia begin at 8 pm in room 377 of the Science Center at
    Wellesley.  Take Route 16 to the College Motor Entrance.  The Center
    is a large modern building in the center of the campus, on the right.
    Parking is available in the main lot opposite the Center.
    
    617/235-0320x2838 for more information.                                                 
    
    
    7th December:  	The Mother-Daughter Relationship
    			--------------------------------
    			Janet Surrey PhD, McLean Hospital
    
    
    1st February:	Women and Suicide               
    			-----------------
    			Alexandra Kaplan PhD, Stone Center
    			Rona Klein MD, Stone Center
                                                                  
    
    1st March:		Coming Out and Relational Empowerment:
    			A Lesbian Feminist Theological Perspective
    			------------------------------------------
                        Carter Heyward PhD, Episcopal Divinity School
                                                                        
    
    5th April:		Relational Development: Therapeutic Implications
    			------------------------------------------------
    			Judith Jordan PhD, McLean Hospital
                                                                        
    
    3rd May:		Dysfunctional Families and Wounded Relationships
    			------------------------------------------------
    			Irene P. Stiver PhD, McLean Hospital
    
    
    7th June:		Women's Groups:  How Connections Heal
    			-------------------------------------
    			Nicolina Fedele PhD, Charles River Hospital
    			Elizabeth Harrington PhD, Charles River Hospital

    [moved by moderator] 
    
VIDEO::TEBAY "Natural phenomena invented to order"   22 lines  21-NOV-1988 10:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I just finished reading the Stone Center material that
    Steve made available.
    
    While in large part none of the conclusions were new
    to me in the sense of being different from my own; it
    was enabling and refreshing just to see them affirmed.
    
    The idea of woman only groups appeals to me and I believe
    the conclusions as to why they could be necessary are
    valid.
    
    The idea of not having to "edit" style and behavior is
    also a powerful one.
    
    However, as this conference has shown the "fear" that
    can be generated by these ideas is cetainly real. As is
    the classical use of techniques to continue discrimination.
    
    Are any of the Stone task force readers of this file?
    
    If so, I would love to hear more about the experience.
    

    A correction to 247.4 - the "report" was written by Joyce Roop, NOT
    by Linda Glover.  My apologies to Joyce for the mistake in
    attribution.  She should receive full credit for a very powerful
    and moving text.
    
    				Steve

    A note to the curious - the contents of .7 are the same as in the
    STONE_CENTER_RECOMMENDATIONS.TXT file I described in .4
    
    			Steve

    There's something I've been hearing from several women I know around
    here.  They are often surprised by the difficulty of going from Wage
    Class 2 to Wage Class 4 (salaried).  In fact, some have gone so far as
    to leave the company when wage class 2, find another job, and re-enter
    the company as a wage class 4, simply because it's FASTER and EASIER
    this way.  They talk of the "run-around" that management gives them,
    the promises that are made to them.  Sometimes they may be doing WC4
    work while under the WC2 classification. Forcing those who are desirous
    and capable of doing WC4 work to stay in a WC2 classification hurts us
    all - those who need their expertise, and those who are frustrated by a
    system that seems destined to trap them in what they may conceive as a
    dead-end job. 
    
    I believe DEC should help pave the way for this transition, in much
    the same way that they pave the move from technician to engineer
    (often without a degree) when the technician has a certain amount
    of experience (subject to discussion by some board of engineers
    or something, I'm sure, but if they're competent to make the move,
    then they will be able to pass any questioning board).  
    
    -Jody
    

  Since I don't know all of the positions and their associated wage class, I
wonder if it is really that difficult?  Or, at the very least, any more
difficult than moving from one position to a (potentially) unrelated position.

  My former group's secretary recently left her position to become a computer
operator, still wage class 2, and she is working on becoming a full system
manager (or whatever they're called these days).  I can think of two other
people I've heard through the notesfiles who've done the same.

    jim,
    
    i've met plenty of women who've had a tough time moving from wc2 to
    wc4. in some cases, they've been asked to do their new jobs for a year
    or more before being promoted. in other cases, they've had significant
    experience outside of the company but seem to have been "branded" for
    being a secretary at dec. in the cases i've known about, these women
    have been competent and probably even overqualified for the positions
    they were trying to move into. 
    
    my observation of people who try to move within the wc4 structure
    is very different. i've noticed that these people need to be
    persistent, dedicated and good, but there's usually a good-natured
    cooperative quality to the whole process that's missing when people
    try to make the leap from wc2 to wc4.
    
    liz

I've had to set both the pointers to the report and the text hidden. A member
of the community pointed out that the document is marked Company Confidential,
which means that it should be distributed on a strict need-to-know basis. I
contacted Linda Glover, and she said _no_one_ outside the company should have
access to it.
	Mez

    What does this mean exactly?  I've gotten copies (informally, in the
    mail) of both the "official" document and Joyce Roop's report.  I
    posted both in one department's notes conference and asked a friend to
    post them in another conference.  
    
    Is that okay?  Both conferences are restricted, members-only
    conferences.  
    
    Nina
    
    

    Considering that the preface to the official report urges recipients
    to forward it to anyone who got Joyce Roop's "event report", I think
    the labelling of the report "Company Confidential" was based on
    a misunderstanding of the term and who has access to it.
    
    I hope to be able to speak to Linda Glover tomorrow and ask her just
    what restrictions she wishes to place on the report.  
    
    However, any damage has been done by now....
    
    Note that there is a "Men's discussion section" being organized
    by the Stone Center Task Force tomorrow afternoon (1-3PM) at
    ZKO (Hustvedt room, ZK3-4).  I plan to attend.
    
    				Steve

    If anyone would like more information on the Stone Center Project,
    an account has been set up at UCOUNT::STONE_CTR.  They have several
    articles of interest (write for a list) as well as suggested books
    and will respond to requests for showings of the tape of
    the original presentation.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    Hi,
      
    Last week I received a copy of the memo 'women's issues &
    opportunities', being a member of the Workers council in Holland.
    
    I'm interested in women's issues, and trying to gather information
    about this, and trying to compare it with the dutch situation.
    
    Reading this memo, I was very interested about the backgrounds.
    
    I would like to get more information about the investigations etc.
    they talk about in the memo. 
    Is there information like this available?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    
    Clarie van de Langenberg

    re .17 Clarie
    
    The Spitbrook library has a video tape of the presentation on the
    Stone Center Project. We here at GSO borrowed it for one of our
    March Celebration of Differences calendar events. It is worth checking
    into!
    
    welcome to =wn='s (-:
    
    ~robin