Conference turris::womannotes-v2

245.0. "A Serious Problem" by ESD56::SLATER () Wed Oct 19 1988 12:48

    I believe I am seeing a symptoms of a serious problem at DEC.
    
    This past June, I was one of the moderators of the SOAPBOX notesfile.
    One member of the noting community decided to make an issue of what
    he considered "freedom of speech." He said that the file and by
    extension the company should allow the use of such phrases as "lynch
    niggers" in the personal name field. To illistrate his point he
    indeed used the same form in his personal name field: "lynch
    communists."
    
    I objected to him and to the other moderators. I tried to argue
    that this particular case was a very bad precedent and could indeed
    lead to the acceptance of similar forms. That the particular "lynch
    communists" should not be allowed.
    
    I got very little support in that conference so I brought the
    discussion to three other conferencess, BLACKNOTES, WOMANNOTES,
    and MODERATORS.
    
    The discussion was not resolved within the SOAPBOX conference and
    it was removed from the net. A new SOAPBOX was formed with new rules.
    I thought this issue was settled. Not so, it has surfaced again.
    
    I raised the issue in the MODERATORS conference and some very
    interestingthings have been revealed.
    
    I tried to explain that the particular "lynch communists" could
    just as well be replaced with "Lynch Niggers", "Kill the Jews",
    "Rape Lesbians", or a whole series of similar phrases that essentially
    advocate, in slogan form, the bodily harm or denial of rights of
    identifiable individuals or groups of individuals.
    
    I also tried to point out that the particular medium is not of deciding
    consequence here.
    
    There was one person that said the deciding factor should be whether
    or not it was a threat to the well being of the company. I responded
    that under that criteria he would be comfortable supporting the
    "right" of employees in a WW-II German munitions plant to wear "Kill
    the Jews" buttons.
    
    He responded that he would *not* be comfortable with such a situation
    but would defend those wearers rights to "freedom of speech." He
    said he would be just as uncomfortable with "Vote Communist" buttons.
    
    He also said the use of the personal name "Elect Dukakis" was just
    as threatening to him. This is a very serious confusion of the gravity
    of what should be protected at DEC and what should not.
    
    I believe that if there were a complaint to personnel about a person
    wearing "Lynch Niggers", "Kill the Jews", "Rape Lesbians", "Kill
    Foggots" or other similar expressions of intimidation, that personnel
    would rule that this is not allowed. Why should this be different
    on the net?
    
    I believe what is being allowed on the net and the discussions thereof
    could very well set a precedent that we are not protected from such
    abuse in the electronic medium.
    
    There is no fundamental difference between the hallway and the net.
    Let's not by mystified by the technology. The issues are the same.
    
    Les

        Les,
        
        Why are you doing this?  The preceeding is taken totally out of
        context, has already  been  aired in various conferences in the
        last few months, and  resulted  in  the close-down of a popular
        conference.  Added to that,  the person who confronted you over
        this is dead and buried - why regurgitate it, especially here?
        
        Andy
        

    A problem like this is never "dead and buried", and should be brought
    up often!
    
    People can nitpick about "Freedom of speech", saying that certain
    personal name choices, no matter how innocent, can insult.  A light
    example:  someone who has a song line in their PN field might offend
    someone who hated that particular song.  THAT is nitpicking.
    
    But things like "lynch niggers" or "Kill a commie" or what-have-you
    are not only insulting to a large populace, but are also concidered,
    to me, very dangerous.  
    
    Also, though "freedom of speech" is for our country, this is a DEC
    network, (correct me if I'm wrong), worldwide.  And in the rules of
    DEC, such phrases are not allowed, PERIOD.  Once again, feel free
    to correct me.  (I am fairly new still).
    
    "Vote Dukakis", "Vote Bush" or even "Vote Roger Rabbit" are hardly
    the same.  They do not suggest violence, simply stating a political
    opinion which is not insulting in any way.   "Vote (*), or else!"
    is not in the same vein.  A friendly suggestion vs. a threat.
    
    I agree, this is a serious problem.  And it should not be allowed
    to continue.  Freedom of speech should not be abused, or used for
    selfish purposes.   
    
    Peace to ALL peoples of the world!
    
    K.C.

        Re: .4, K.C.,
        
        I agree with what you say;  my point is that the quotes as used
        in .0 are  _totally out of context_, as proven by your response
        to them!  The  "lynch  *" personal names were used deliberately
        by a noter to illustrate an point of view, _NOT_ as a sincerely
        held belief.
        
        &y.
        

    To the base note author:
    
    You have brought this topic up in several conferences. After the
    explanations you've received, especially in the moderators conference,
    I'm surprised that you're continuing to drag the issue around the
    network. As someone has already mentioned, you've taken the problem
    way out of context and are asking us to judge the situation with
    limited information. Your actions remind me of a little boy who
    asks the other parent for something after the first parent has already
    said "no". This appears to be a personal issue between you and the
    soapbox moderators. Please work it out with them.
    
    Liz Augustine
    CoModerator, Womannotes