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Conference turris::womannotes-v2

Title:	ARCHIVE-- Topics of Interest to Women, Volume 2 --ARCHIVE
Notice:	V2 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:	REGENT::BROOMHEAD

Created:	Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1105
Total number of notes:	36379

231.0. "Survey" by AWARD2::HARMON () Thu Oct 06 1988 14:31

    The following is an article from USA TODAY.  Not sure of the date
    and is reprinted without permission.
    
    
    "Career Women's Code of Conduct for the Office"
    
    Career women say flirting, wearing miniskirts and crying at the
    office undermine a woman's professional image, a new survey reveals.
    
    The survey of 8,033 "Working Woman" readers - mostly managers and
    professionals - in the October issue shows:
    - 78% say crying in the office quashes professionalism.
    - 76%, wearing miniskirts.
    - 72%, flirting.
    - 70%, losing one's temper or using profanity.
    
    Seventy-three percent also say that success should be based on job
    performance, ot your image.
    
    "Women still feel they have to be perfect," says Anne Mollegen Smith.
    "They think they have to be twice as good as a man in order to get
    the same salary or a promotion.  Plus, they have to have a polished
    image."
    
    Other findings:
    - 64% say a professional image is more important for women than
    for men.
    - Less than 1% say they'd be pleased if top management, clients
    or colleagues thought they were sexy.
    - 48% say they abide by the adage, "dress for the position you aspire
    to", 25% dress for the position they're in; 20% dress for themselves;
    1%, for the boss.
    - 70% admit they might find themselves at the office not properly
    dressed; 29% say they wouldn't go to work in clothes they couldn't
    wear to a board meeting.
    - 69% say they would be honest in explaining that they needed to
    stay home if a child were sick; 27% would avoid the issue by saying,
    "I have to be out of the office today, I'll call in"; 4% say they'd
    pretend to be sick themselves.
    
    The median age of the survey respondents was 35; median income,
    $30,900.
    
    P.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
231.1	I agree!	JJM::ASBURY		`Thu Oct 06 1988 14:49`	14
	Very Interesting! And I agree with much of what was in .0. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, I was having a discussion about one of those topics - use of profanity. I was talking to a fellow student in one of my evening MBA classes at Babson College (Wellesley, MA). Somehow, swearing at work was brought up. This fellow student, Brian, claimed that swearing at work, if done at the right time, ie sparingly and to make a strong point, could be very beneficial. It would tend to cause the 'swearing manager' to be taken more seriously. After some discussion, we agreed that this is less true for women in business than for men. -Amy.
231.2	Profanity is not need, nor appreciated.	SUCCES::ROYER	Fidus Amicus	`Thu Oct 06 1988 16:24`	13
	Amy, Swearing and profanity in my opinion are just crutches people use when they cannot find the proper word to use in the situation. In other words, the usage of language that is not proper is the sign of a mental cripple, whether male or female. No malice intended, just stating an opinion. :-) Dave
231.3	use of language, indeed	TFH::MARSHALL	hunting the snark	`Thu Oct 06 1988 17:47`	14
	re .2: > ...the usage of language that is not proper is the sign of a mental > cripple, ... > No malice intended, ... These two statements are contradictory. / ( ___ ) /// /
231.4		ULTRA::ZURKO	UI:Where the rubber meets the road	`Thu Oct 06 1988 18:09`	5
	I'd like to see the same survey on men, to have something to compare it against (besides my personal experience). I swear plenty. Mez
231.6	Is this going to be another rathole?	AKOV11::BOYAJIAN	That was Zen; this is Dao	`Fri Oct 07 1988 03:48`	19
	� Swearing and profanity in my opinion are just crutches people use when they cannot find the proper word to use in the situation. � Sometimes the "profane" word is the "proper word to use in the situation". So what do you do then? � In other words, the usage of language that is not proper is the sign of a mental cripple... � By whose definition of propriety? You may believe that some words are "improper", but I don't. So why should I be bound by your rules of propriety? Words is words. Ideas may be profane or smutty or whatever you want to call it, but the words aren't. To me, there's no difference between "feces" and "shit". We're talking about the same substance, so why is one word acceptable and the other not? --- jerry
231.7		HANDY::MALLETT	Foole	`Fri Oct 07 1988 14:11`	13
	I suspect that the idea behind the profanity question refers more to regular or constant use those "nasty" words. My experience tells me that for both men and women, the occasional profanity doesn't undermine a professional image while regular or constant usage does. Actually, from what I've seen in Manufacturing,� a woman has a bit more leeway as profanity from a woman is often interpretted by males as a sign of "toughness", an attribute of great value in Mfg. Steve � admittedly, an, um, unusual place. . .
231.8	and from the man in the know (so he sez)	NOETIC::KOLBE	The dilettante debutante	`Fri Oct 07 1988 15:29`	16
	Concerning the dress code for aspiring pros... In a recent article about J.T. Molloy (mr dress for sucess) he stated that most recent fashion mags have been misleading women saying that they may wear dresses to work and be respected. He says this is only true of women dominated fields. Otherwise ladies, you must suit up. He also claims that dark colors are mandatory (and I wear pink 80% of the time, so much for my sucess). A quote from Molloy... "Dark colors mean authority...that's why IBM executives and Hell's Angels wear dark clothes". liesl
231.9		AKOV11::BOYAJIAN	That was Zen; this is Dao	`Sat Oct 08 1988 04:58`	14
	With regard to dress, I disagree with the idea of dressing for the job one aspires to. It's far better to dress for the job one is currently in. Some years back, I had a woman working for me who seemed to feel that "dressing up" was the way to go -- though I confess that I'm not sure whether it was because she just liked dressing up or she felt it would help her "get ahead". Regardless, a fancy dress and high heels was not what I consider appropriate dress for a computer operator (and, working third shift, she wouldn't have had much of a chance to impress upper management with her "professionalism"). --- jerry
231.10	the job you're in	DOODAH::RANDALL	Bonnie Randall Schutzman	`Tue Oct 11 1988 14:33`	13
	re: .9 Sounds like she probably just felt more comfortable dressing up. I tend to agree about dressing for the job you're in now. If you want to be taken seriously in an engineering environment as someone with technical knowledge, you hadn't better wear anything much fancier than a sweater and slacks. Someone, male or female, who wore suits regularly would have to go several extra steps to establish that he or she knew what she was talking about technically and wasn't just spouting management jargon. --bonnie