Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    
    
   Of course you should be concerned.  This is something that should
   always be closely watched to see if there's any changes.

   The first thing that came to my mind, when reading your note, was
   the possibility of fibrocyctic (sp?) disease.  This is not uncommon
   to women.  My mother has it.  Her doctor told her to stay away from
   caffeine in coffee, tea, chocolate, sodas, etc.  This is not a dangerous
   disease, just something that needs to be watched closely.  And, it's
   genetically inheritable.  My mother's doctor has found lumps in her
   breast a few times.  She had a biopsy done on one and has a mammography
   once or twice a year.  She, and her doctor, closely monitor her
   condition.

   Has this condition ever been mentioned by your doctor?  
    
   Personally, I don't think a *thickness* in your breast should be
   ignored.  If I were you, I'd get a second, maybe third opinion. 
   You can *never* be too safe.  I don't know any of the details of
   your medical condition but something doesn't sound right.  It could
   by my lack of knowledge in medicine...
    
   Best of luck to you,
    
   Denise
    

    REPLY TO 224.0
    
    I am a survivor of breast cancer (one of the fortunate ones).  I
    had my left breast removed in February 1979, the right one in July
    1979, and a year of chemotherapy.
    
    To try and answer some of your questions, at least superficially:
    
    	1.  No it does not effect only older women; I was 38 yrs. old
    	    when I was diagnosed and there was no prior family history
    	    of breast cancer to anyone's knowledge.                  
                                                                     
    	2.  I do smoke, but do not know if the incident of breast ca.
       	    higher in women who smoke or not.  Some studies on factors
    	    seem to indicate that women who are overweight (I am not 
    	    and was not), who have a diet high in fats (butter, red  
    	    meats, etc.), who drink alcoholic beverages in excess may
    	    be more likely to develop breast ca.  Family hx. is also
    	    an important predeterminate.  Also women who have not had
    	    children, women who have not nursed babies seem to have
    	    a slightly higher incident.  I honestly don't know if these
    	    are the latest findings, just things I discovered in my
    	    research and reading.
    
	3.  I think if you have any sort of "thickening" at all in your
    	    breast(s) you should be concerned to the point of having
    	    careful examinations and followup, up to and including a
    	    biopsy if your physician feels it is indicated.  If mine
    	    had not been caught early I wouldn't be here today in all
    	    probability.
    
	If you, or anyone else out there has other specific questions
    	that I can answer for you please send them along to me via this
	notesfile or at my ENET -- MILRAT::RYAN.  I'm far from an expert,
    	but will be glad to share my knowledge and experience.
    
    	Pat
            

       Having worked with many cancer patients in my previous career I
       can safely tell you that you should investigate any abnormality
       carefully. Many people have died from CURABLE cancers because
       they waited too long to find out what was wrong. You won't be hurt
       by getting another opinion or more checkups, you may be dead if
       you don't. The worst thing you can do is ignore it.

       If after a careful look everyone decides you are not in danger
       (and that is the most likely outcome) make sure your doctor keeps
       a careful record of what is normal for you. It's sometimes very
       difficult to tell if there is a change from the normal because
       normal has such a wide variation. A good base level set of x-rays
       or mamograms (or whatever) gives the radiologist the background
       he needs to make a good diagnosis. liesl

	The moment I first discovered a lump in my breast is indelibly
	etched in my memory.  I was taking a shower and felt "something."
	My heart stood still, then started pounding as my mind struggled
	for a way to deny it.  I knew that breast lumpiness rises and falls
	with the menstrual cycle.  "It will probably go away," I thought.

	It didn't go away, so the following week I went to the student
	health service (I was in graduate school at the time.).  The
	physician on duty that day was a woman.  She examined both of my
	breasts and agreed that there was definitely something there.  She
	said that in view of my age (35) and family history (no breast
	cancer on either side) it was probably a fibrocystic lump.
	Fibrocystic lumps are not uncommon; experts disagree as to whether
	such lumps will lead to cancer.  She wrote up a referral slip and
	advised me to get a mammogram.

	I made an appointment with a clinic at Mass General Hospital.  I
	chose that hospital because I had worked there for ten years and
	knew it to be an excellent teaching hospital.  Unfortunately, the
	appointment was a week away, so I sat around and worried a lot.
	And did a little reading.

	Risk factors for breast cancer are
		family history - if your mother or sister has had breast
				 cancer, you are at a higher risk than the
				 general population
		age - only a small percentage of cases occur in women
		      under the age of 45 or so.
		childbearing - a full term pregnancy before the age of 30
			       puts you at a lower risk.

	Early detection is a key to survival.  Monthly breast self exam is
	the best thing a woman can do improve her chances of surviving
	breast cancer.

	At my first clinic appointment, the physician (another woman - a
	higher force was watching over me) agreed that it was probably a
	fibrocystic lump.  The procedure called for was a "needle biopsy"
	- if they are able to insert a needle into the lump and suck fluid
	out, it's a fibrocystic lump.  No luck.  Next step - a mammogram.
	The waiting period for a mammogram was 3-1/2 weeks.  (I later
	found out that this was a RUSH job.)

	In the meantime, I was finishing up grad school and interviewing
	for jobs.  I began to wonder who to tell.  I discussed things with
	a few close friends, but did not tell my family.  I didn't want
	them to be worried, and besides, there was probably nothing to
	worry about.

	The day of the mammogram finally came.  The x-ray technician was
	very pleasant.  The procedure was not at all painful.  I also had
	an experimental ultrasound done; the physician who performed the
	ultrasound was a young woman, like myself, and she reassured me.
	The ultrasound revealed that the lump was definitely solid.  The
	doctor said that 4 out of 5 breast lumps are benign, and mine was
	probably a fibro-adenoma - a benign, fatty tissue tumor.

	I went back the following week to learn the results of the
	mammogram.  Well, the radiologist gave an optimistic report.
	There was certainly something there, but it didn't look
	"suspicious."  I was to return the following week for a biopsy,
	an outpatient surgical procedure that should take only an hour or
	so.  The lump would be entirely removed and examined
	microscopically.

	The biopsy was late getting started, as the whole place was behind
	schedule.  I was nervous and impatient, but I knew that I would
	have some kind of answer before leaving.  In cases like mine, the
	tumor is whisked down to the pathology lab as soon as it is
	removed; the pathologist prepares and examines a slide of the
	tissue to determine if it is benign or malignant.  All went well
	during the biopsy; there was even string quartet music in the
	background.  The surgeon did a very neat job.  The incision was
	made around the boundary of the aureole, and would barely show
	once it healed.

	I went and sat in the little recovery room for a half hour or so.
	Finally the surgeon came over to tell me about the pathology
	result.  Only he didn't tell me.  He said that they just couldn't
	be sure; they had to wait for the more permanent slides to be
	made.  He would have all the information ready when I came to have
	my stitches removed the following week.  I was afraid that this
	meant really bad news.

	Through all of this, my friends were wonderful.  They let me talk,
	they reassured me, they told me stories of women who had breast
	cancer 20 years ago and were still going strong.

	Sometime during all this waiting and worrying, I accepted a
	"dream" job at Digital.  I knew that I would undergo a
	pre-employment physical and wondered whether that would disqualify
	me for the job.

	Somehow I got through final exams.  The day after my last final, I
	returned to Mass General to have the stitches removed.  The
	surgeon who had done the biopsy told me that the tumor was
	malignant and the recommend procedure in this case is mastectomy.
	I wept, I was frightened, I didn't want to die.

	I was also reluctant to undergo mutilating surgery.  The diagnosis
	was "intraductal carcinoma."  This, I was told, is the "best" kind
	of breast tumor - the one with the highest cure rate.  There have
	been advances in breast cancer treatment in recent years, but
	little change in survival rates.  In many cases, treatment
	consists of lumpectomy followed by radiation or chemotherapy.  The
	surgeon advised against this course in my case.  He said that
	there was some evidence that intraductal carcinomas are
	multi-focal (ie, there may be other, indetectible tumors in the
	same breast) and that mastectomy was strongly recommended.

	I suppose I ought to have sought a second opinion on this, but I
	didn't.  I wanted to have it over with.  I also felt ... betrayed
	by my breast.  How could she do this to me?  I scheduled myself
	for surgery the following week.  The procedure to be done was a
	modified radical mastectomy - removal of the breast and the
	axillary (armpit area) lymph nodes.  The lymph nodes would be
	examined for evidence of metastasis.  If there was no evidence of
	spread, I would have an excellent prognosis.

	Now it was time to tell my family.  I called my sister and said,
	"Get a box of kleenex and sit down," which she did, though she
	didn't need the kleenex.  She was calm and concerned and invited
	me to recuperate from the operation at her house.  I went to visit
	my parents and told them in person.  I was afraid that they would
	be horribly upset, but they were wonderful about it.  My mother
	blamed herself - she had taken DES while pregnant with me.  I told
	her that there was no evidence at all linking DES exposure in
	utero with breast cancer.  My job for ten years involved
	working with many carcinogenic organic chemicals and radioactive
	isotopes (I was a lab technician); if there was blame to assign,
	it lay in the lab as far as I was concerned.  

	I was to be admitted to the hospital on Thursday afternoon; the
	surgery was scheduled for the following morning.  The admitting
	office runs a check to verify insurance coverage.  Waiting for
	the OK was one of the most horrible half hours of my life.  Would
	I really be covered by student health insurance that cost $125 for
	a year?  Yes.

	My friends helped me "move in" - they brought me pillows from home
	and paid for the TV rental.  My hospital roommate was really nice.
	The surgeon who was going to do the surgery paid me a
	pre-operative visit.  He explained everything that was going to
	happen, drew a picture of the incisions that would be made, and
	answered a hundred questions.  I actually felt informed by the
	time I signed an informed consent form.

	I know that some people regard Mass General as a "factory," where
	patients are "cases" and the care is impersonal.  My experience
	was quite the opposite.  Every member of the staff with whom I
	came into contact was competent and friendly.  I did not feel
	neglected or objectified.  Case-in-point: as soon as I woke up
	from the anesthesia, one of the doctors dialed my most-worried
	friend and held the phone to my head so I could tell her I was
	fine.

	My family and friends kept me busy for the 3 post-operative days.
	This really helped to keep my spirits up.  My chest didn't hurt
	much, though I didn't turn down a painkiller at bedtime.  When it
	came time to look at my chest, I was almost prepared for it.  Even
	two years later, I'm sometimes surprised to look at my chest and
	see a scar instead of my breast.

	I checked out of the hospital on Tuesday and went directly to my
	sister's house.  My next visit to the hospital was scheduled for a
	week and a half later.  At that time I would have the stiches
	removed and find out the results of the lymph node biopsy.  This
	was the most agonizing period of waiting.  If the pathology report
	was "bad" I would undergo chemotherapy and face an uncertain
	future.  How would all this affect my dream job?  What about the
	pre-employment physical?  Were there things I wanted to do in case
	my life was going to be shorter than originally planned?  Why me??

	The pathology report was favorable.  No malignancy was seen in the
	20 lymph nodes examined.  The surgeon in charge of my case wrote a
	letter stating that I could be considered cured.  It was a new
	lease on life.  In fact, May 29 is New Lease On Life Day in my
	calendar!  My most-worried friend and I went out and had hot fudge
	sundaes to celebrate.  
	
	I went to a walk-in medical clinic for my pre-employment physical,
	which revealed that I am mildly myopic and recently underwent a
	mastectomy.  I mailed the report in to the Digital health
	services.  Would they call me up to say that as a poor medical
	risk, I would not be hired after all?  Nope.  I was hired.

	So here I am.  What is my prognosis really?  I go for frequent
	check-ups and an annual mammogram.  I eat well and try my best to
	enjoy life.  I passed the two-year milestone in May.  Five years
	is another big milestone.  Ten years is the new survival benchmark
	for breast cancer.  80% of women with my medical history survive at
	least 10 years.

	See you in '96?

	Dale

    From "Digital This Week"
    
    "A mobile mammographic unit will visit the Stow facility on Nov 2
    from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.  Th unit will be outside in the reserve area
    adjacent to the South Dock (behind the cafeteria).  A mammogram
    is an X-ray of the breasts that may help in the early detection
    of cancer.  The entire process takes from 20 to 30 minutes.  X-ray
    reports will be sent to your personal physician.  Women who plan
    to have a mammogram should bring their doctor's name, complete address
    and phone number.  A list of doctors for referral will be provided
    for women who do not currently have a doctor. 
    	For answers to your questions, or to make an appointment, call
    Health Services, DTN 276-9033, or send a message to Susan
    Marston-Burkley @OGO (PRYDE::SMBURKLEY)."
    
    -Jody
    

    Gee, it would be nice if this service was also in other areas of
    the country as well.

    I have a friend with the fibrocystic (?) condition and have seen
    what she has gone through worrying each time she finds a new lump.
    Thank goodness, they've all been benign.   From this I talked to
    my doctor about mammograms and should I have one (at the time I
    was 34).  He looked at me funny and said we'd discuss it at my next
    check-up.  We did, he told me to have one as women 35 an older should.
    
    I had it done at the Women's Health Clinic (I believe that's the
    name) which is associated with Marlboro Hospital.  I found it to
    be painless, I'd heard some stories to the contrary, and quicker
    than I thought.  I'm basically a modest person, but not to worry
    there....all mammograms are done by female technicians.
    
    My point is to check with your doctor if you have any questions
    and don't be leary of a mammogram.  They can only help.
    
    P.
    

    When I was growing up my grandmother had a "fake boobie" (that's what
    we called it as little kids, we all knew because it would slip once in 
    a while).  Little did I know that not all grandmothers had this wonderful 
    toy!  You see, my grandmother had breast cancer and all they did back 
    then was a radical mastectomy.  I don't know exactly how long ago, but
    I'm nearly 30 now and I can't remember a time when grandma *didn't* have 
    the "fake boobie".  She fooled all the doctors (prognosis was not
    usually too good back then) and lived life to the fullest for a lot of 
    years - she was never one to 'let little things' bother her.  When she 
    died a couple of years ago at the ripe old age of 90 it was from a heart 
    attack, no cancer involved.
    
    Conni

    My grandmother also had a 'fake boobie' tho if you had called it
    that to her face she would have been terribly offended..she was
    definitely a woman of the old school.
    
    Grandma lived with my Mom for 14 years after she had a stroke which
    was over 20 years from when she had the radical mastectomy...she
    finaly died in her late eighties of simple old age...of heart failure.
    and I love and remember her with great fondnes...she was a lovely
    woman.
    
    Bonnie

re:: 11,12 Am I seeing double ??

My mother_in_law also has a 'fake boobie' due to a radical mastectomy
about 30 years ago. Only problem is after the operation they discovered
she didn't have cancer. Back then the only "cure" was a radical and
diagnoses was not what it is today. So "accidents" like what happened
to my mother_in_law happened. Today diagnoses is much better and
the survival rate is much higher. 

I have an idea of what one goes through , my wife and a friend of hers 
had tests done this spring. They were on pins and needles waiting 
for the test results. My wifes came back negative, our friends didn't. 
She didn't get the radical, but went for lump removal and radiation 
treatments. 

dave

    My father once told me how he used to visit one of his grandmothers
    when he was young.  She was a Christian Scientist, and refused medical
    opinion and care, although by this point it may have been to late
    for doctors to help her.  He remembers walking into her kitchen at
    one point and seeing her remove a rag from under her shirt.  She
    rinsed it in the sink.  He says the sink was full of blood - the
    cancer must have been pretty bad at that point.  She died shortly
    thereafter.
    
    Sometimes I am suddenly reminded of the modern medical miracles 
    we witness everyday.

    -Jody
    

Well, count me as another with a grandmother with a "fake boobie".
I had no idea at all until I was about 20 or 25. It was the
same as the previous note, there was no way to diagnose in those
days and she didn't have cancer afterall.  My grandmother is still 
living at age 99 and going strong!

    
    	One more grandmother success story. I also had no idea until
    I was about 20.  I remember she had "surgery" in 1968.  Now I know
    what it was for.
    
    	She's quite alive and 87.

    RE:: .4
    
    	I have never replied to this notes file before but I do on occasion
    read the file to get a feel for how the other half of the human
    race is doing.
    
    	Reading the note 224.4 brought back some emotions that I can
    relate to very closely. I lived through every detail of this
    traumatic experience with my wife 3 1/2 years ago. I say "traumatic"
    because I have never before or since been in a situation where I
    felt so completely and totally inept. The only thing that I could
    do was listen to my wife describe what she was going through and
    give her a shoulder to cry on ... not to mention the times that
    I cried right along with her.
    
    	For me it was not so much the "surgery" as it was the unknown
    ... what were her chances of full recovery.
    
    	My wife was less fortunate in some ways than some that I have
    seen in this note, in that she had a more rare (can't remember the
    technical name for it) and rapid growing form of cancer. The doctor
    theorized that the tumor had gone from undetectable to a good sized
    lump in something less than 6 to 8 weeks. My wife ended up having
    to have a "Double Modified Radical Mastectomy" because even though 
    the cancer had not yet shown up on one side the odds were very high 
    that it would within a year. (by the way, this was not just one doctor
    it was a group of 5 or 6 different ones)
    
    	We have both read a lot about this form of cancer since that
    time and I think we are both of the opinion that no one has a clue
    when it comes to categorizing who is most suseptible. In my wifes
    case:
    	1. She was 36 years old
    	2. No family history of cancer (of this type or any other)
    	3. Had 2 children, full term, in early to mid 20's
    	4. Breast fed both children
    	5. Never smoked
    	6. Was not and has never been over weight
    	7. Always watched the kind of food she ate (almost to a fault)
    	8. Has never, in her life, drank to excess 
    		ETC.
    
    	The good news is that it has now been 3 1/2 years (15-MAY-85)
    since she had the surgery and she is doing great (no further trace
    of the cancer). She still goes in for regular checkups and will
    continue to do so for some time to come.
    
    	So ...... from a males point of view who has been through the
    other side of this ..... I strongly suggest that if there is even
    the slightest chance of a lump or mass being present don't take
    the word of one doctor that it might go away, go to another and another
    until the proper tests are done. In some cases a matter of weeks
    might make a fatal difference.
    

    12 years now for me no problem!!!!!

April is Cancer Awareness Month

Marlboro Area Health Services

For Women Only:  GOOD NEWS ABOUT SELF EXAM

Don't be afraid to learn about breast cancer.  many of the facts are
encouraging.  Come and join us

April 19 - MR01 Harness Conference Room, MR01-1/M12
April 20 - YW0 - Medway Conference Room
April 21 - MET - Melbourne Conference Room

All are lunchtime seminars from 12-1, bring your lunch

For Women Only.

    A revised date and time has been posted for the previous reply's
    information, it is:
    
    April 25 - MR04-1/east G 17, Ebb Tide Room
    		call 297-3161 to sign up
    
    bring your lunch if you wish
    
    -Jody
    

    Does anyone know if sore breasts have any connection to breast cancer?
    
    If a breast is suddenly sore (not a sharp definite pain, just generally
    sore... throbbing) could that be a pre-cancerous symptom?
    
    I had a routine mammogram just 5 months ago (fine), but am experiencing
    this sorness the last day or two.  I also have fibroid breasts, so they
    are often lumpy... particularly between ovulation and menstration
    (now).
    
    I hardly think I should have another mammogram within 5 months, but I
    don't normally experience soreness. 
    
    Any thoughts?
    
    jacki
     

    Somewhat ironic that I happened upon this note today. At my annual
    physical on Wednesday, my doctor found a free-floating lump in the left
    axillary (armpit area).  I see her again in 2 weeks to have it checked
    again, and am also scheduled for a mammogram.
    
    I'm curious to know whether the mammogram will show the armpit or only
    the breast? How would they further check out the lump in the armpit?
    
    Thanks for any info,
    --Lynn
    

	Hi Lynn,

	The mammogram will probably show some of the axillary area.  The
	"picture" is taken of any and all tissue that can be held
	stationary between two plexiglas plates.

	Breast tumors can spread to the axillary lymph nodes, which will
	then feel lumpy.  Your doctor probably wants to do the mammogram to
	see if there is a tumor in the breast that has spread.

	Further examination of the axillary lump most likely involves a
	biopsy, which can be done as an outpatient procedure under local
	anesthesia.

	If you are feeling anxious or if you have questions, I recommend
	giving your doctor a call.  Two weeks can seem like an eternity
	sometimes.

	Best wishes,
	Dale
                                        

    Re: -2
    This note is a little late but I hope it is useful.  I can't answer
    the question about breast soreness being linked to cancer since
    I'm not qualified but I can tell you about myself.
    
    I have what is called chronic cystic mastitis.  This means that
    I have lumpy breasts.  I have mammograms very regularly to check
    out sore lumps that last more than a couple of months.  Most of
    them come and go with my cycle.  If they last more than a couple
    of cycles then I have it checked by my Gyn. and then a mammogram.
    
    I have had one cyst removed from my left breast.  It was not cancerous.
    
    For me soreness increases when I have caffeine.  Other months I
    am not sore at all.
    
    I hope this helps.			Judy

    Judy (.24) -- could you share a bit more about the diagnostic process
    for chronic cystic mastitis?  My doctor is zeroing in on this for
    me, but I'm concerned we're going into too much testing (mammograms,
    ultrasounds, needle biopsies, repeated on a three month basis).
    When can I expect this "testing" to end and just go to an annual
    mammogram unless something suspicious (i.e., a lump for more than
    two or three months) arises?  (Guess I'm concerned he's paying for
    his expensive equipment at my -- and John Hancock's -- expense!)
    
    Karen

    Karen sorry this is late...I havent been in for a while.
    
    I will explain about the testing that I have had as having chronic
    cystic mastitis.
    
    It was first noticed when I hugged my daughter.  My left breast really
    hurt.  After examining myself I noticed a lump.  I first went to my
    normal doctor who then asked me to see my gynecologist.  He examined me
    as well and felt that I ought to have a mammogram.  From the mammogram
    he referred me to a surgeon since he felt it ought to be removed and
    examined for cancer.  The surgoen also examined the x-rays and felt it
    ought to be looked at.  At the time of the visit he also felt other
    lumps that were not at the stage the other one was.  He marked it as
    such.  I had the surgery, being nervous that he might be performming a
    mastectomy right then and there!.  I had to be prepared.  While laying
    on the table, the test came back negative and he closed me.
    After the operation I went back to the surgeon for a check-up.  He
    informed me that I had Chronic Cyctic mastitis and that I most likely
    would be back again for the other lumps.  Nothing has happened yet. 
    The lumps are there but have not grown or anything.
    
    I did not have all of the testing that you have.  Perhaps my mammogram
    showed something different than you.
    
    Write me off-line if you want to chat further.  You certainly are going
    thru alot more than I.  The mammogram was all that the surgeon needed.
    Also once he looked at the lump for real, he was pretty certain that it
    was not cancer.  Perhaps you need to have the biopsy done as I did to
    be certain...
    
    Also mine was not fluid filled.  It was solid, as could be seen from
    the mammogram.
    
    
    Good luck,  Judy