Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Well, for screening applicants, start with the obvious -- smoking
    habits, attitudes towards pets, and loudness of stereo systems
    should be compatible.  If you have strong feelings about drinking
    or drugs, bring that up, too.  
    
    Be up front about the money arrangements -- how much the rent is,
    how much of the other bills is to be shared, when you expect
    payment, how much leeway there is (now, one day, ten days), what
    form you want the payment in.  And how the phone bill will be
    divided.  It's amazing the number of people who make $100 in long
    distance calls a month and then expect to divide the bill 50-50! 
    
    Discuss care and feeding of the kitchen.  If the person says s/he
    doesn't cook much, you should be wary -- that probably means that
    s/he doesn't know how to take care of a kitchen, either.  You run
    a higher risk of things like forgotten bowls of pizza dough
    overflowing on top of the refrigerator while nobody's home to
    rescue the phone book.  [The same roommate also put a chicken
    quarter out to thaw once, and forgot it.  Neil found it several
    weeks later . . . ] 

    Discuss also how much sharing of food and staples will take place.
    It's simple to say "We'll each have our own", but it's a nuisance
    to actually do it for things like milk, flour, sugar.  On the
    other hand, figuring out a fair way to share the cost of these
    things can also be a nuisance.  It probably doesn't matter what
    you decide, but you'll be able to tell a lot about the applicant's
    attitudes toward money and sharing by how they respond to the
    discussion. 
    
    Discuss the care and feeding of overnight guests -- are they
    allowed, where will they sleep, will they help with chores, how
    long do they stay before they have to pay for food.  Don't assume
    that this means sex partners, either; when Neil shared a house
    with two other women, one of the biggest problems was how often
    one woman's sister stayed overnight. 
    
    And discuss schedules.  If you're the kind who likes to party at
    night, and she's going to be doing college homework, for example,
    you're going to have a lot of conflicts.  

    When I was in college, we used to prefer having at least one male
    roommate because we felt a little safer.  It seemed that women
    living alone were more likely to have a problem than when there
    was a male in the house.  Taking advantage of the burglars'
    sexism, I suppose.  But you said you'd already decided about that. 
    
    --bonnie

    Thanks for all the advice Bonnie.  You brought up a lot of
    points that I haven't even thought of.  This is my first time
    living with a roommate and I hope some of the things you
    discussed don't happen.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Andrea

    I have seen ads for ROOMATES WANTED, in the classified notesfile.
     Also people stating they needed a place also...You might want to
    try there also...
    
    
    Tanya
    
    

    	One more thing to consider - you don't have to like your roommate,
    but you shouldn't dislike them either.  My current housemate and
    I have vastly differing schedules and habits.  We mostly communicate
    through notes of the 'fridge or calling each other's answering
    machines.  We're not "great friends", but I do like him.
    
    	Oh yeah, we have two phone lines.  This has been a requirement
    ever since my first two-bedroom in Brighton.  The reason - software
    engineers like to work from home sometimes - sometimes at night,
    sometimes weekends.  Unless you think you can handle the phone being
    busy for hours at a time, having two phones is worth the extra $ in 
    that kind of a situation.
    
    	My only other suggestion would be to put the other person's
    name on the lease.  By doing that, you make them legally responsible
    for the rent as well.  I would be very careful of anyone who doesn't
    want to put their name on the lease.  Even now with a tenancy at
    will, both of our names are on the agreement.  It could save you
    from being stuck if your roommate moves out.
    

    One thing I did to help both myself and my prospective roommate
    was to arrange to have a second or third meeting outside of the
    house.  It's real hard to tell how you'll get along with someone
    on the basis of one meeting, but it also helped to meet another
    time on 'neutral' territory.
    
    Cleanliness preferences, food habits, visitors, money, and finally,
    just how much 'togetherness' are you both looking for?  I like to
    enjoy being around my roommate, but I have a lot of friends and
    activities that I'm involved with, so I didn't want someone who
    didn't know *anyone*.  This might give you a few more questions
    to ask about.
    
    I remember the first time I was on the looking side -- I didn't
    want to ask some questions, but on the other hand, I didn't want
    to have to find another roommate soon, so I asked!
    
    Oh, yeah -- maybe the biggest -- try one question of "well, what
    do you think you'd do if (some conflict -- maybe -- we had agreed
    to split the housework, but you had company coming and I was really
    busy?)  See if you can find out how good they are at talking about
    things that bug them -- and listening to things that bug you.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    		Peg  EMASS::ADAMS Huben

    There are some good notes on roommates in the HUMAN_RELATIONS
    notesfile.  You might want to check those out,too (I can't  
    remember the note number off-hand...).
    
    Kp7 or select....
    
    -Amy-

    re: .4, about putting the roommate's name on the lease
    
    That's a good idea if you can't afford the whole rent by yourself,
    but on the other hand, if the other person's name is on the lease,
    you can't throw them out if you get sick of them either.
    
    And some landlords want only one person's name on the lease. Our
    first apartment in New Hampshire had to have only one responsible
    party, and we had to do some persuading to convince them it was
    all right to have my name there rather than his, since I had a job
    and he was still in school . . . and we were married with a kid
    then. 
    
    --bonnie 

    
    
    This is just a side note to this question.  Why is it that women
    in general want a male roommate for protection?  I have lived with
    guys and girls.  I actually felt safer when I was with my female
    roommate.  The reason being that we had a dog.  My first apartment
    in college I shared with 3 males who were my classmates.  Our schedules
    were pretty much the same so it was a rare occasion when the house
    was empty or without a guy around.  To tell you the truth, I really
    don't think that it makes that much of a difference for protection
    purposes.  When someone is waving a weapon in your face you are
    going to react on instinct regardless of if you are male or female.
    
    
    I guess what I am saying is get a dog.  They give you all the love
    and compaionship and they don't leave their clothes all over the
    house.
    
    Michele

    Oh, yes they do!
    
    						Ann B.  :-)

    But, if you still feel as though you need a male around
    the house - get a male dog!
    
    Dorothy
    

    More apartments allow men than allow dogs.  
    
    --bonnie
    

    
    References:  Check character references as well as those of previous
    landlords.
    
    Security Deposit:  Ask for a security deposit to cover half of what
    you presently have out for security.  If you do not pay a security
    deposit, I still urge you to request one for a portion of the total
    monthly rent your roommate would be paying.
    
    I once had a roommate whose cat damaged the wall in one room.  I was
    able to deduct the cost of the repair from his security deposit
    so that I did not lose mine.

    Household Chores:  Be careful to make sure the list of chores has
    been mutually divided and agreed upon.  
    
    A gal I once roomed with believed that as long as you put Tidy Bowl
    into the toilet, the toilet didn't need scrubbing.  To top things
    off, she was an entomologist.  I never knew what big black (or
    colorful) bug I would find in my freezer the next time I opened
    it.
    
    
    My personal preference is a male roommate.  It seemed to work out
    better (for me, anyway) because we didn't get in each other's way
    as much as with the female roommate.
    
    Beckie
    
    

    Speaking of toilets, that is one of my biggest pet peevs.  
    So I don't think I will ever have a problem with a roommate
    cleaning.  I do it at least two or three times a week.
    The only thing I absolutely am going to have to state is,
    if you take a shower please pick the hair balls out of the
    drain.
    
    I really appreciate all of the advice that you have given
    me here.  I'm alot more sure of the questions I am going to
    ask.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Andrea

    Unless I know the woman *really* well, I'll take a male roommate
    any day.  They're easygoing, say exactly what's on their mind, and
    they don't gossip about who you've been seeing and how much.

   	Well you do.

    Apologies.  Comes from having difficulties with previous female
    roommates I didn't know very well when we wound up together,
    I guess - so I make sure if it's a woman, I know her well.
    At any rate, here is a copy of the sub-lease form I had
    my most recent roommate fill out and sign prior to occupation. 

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Lease

             Date:

             Applicant:

             Home Address:

             Home Telephone:

             Signature:

    This lease is good for (move-in date) through (move-out date, if
    known). This lease is for the X bedroom of an n-bedroom unit (specify
    here) at (location). The total occupancy will be N adults. The
    following stipulations apply to all occupants (the others being other
    tenants named here): 
    NOTE:
    This list was compiled after 8 years of sharing apartments with other
    people. These are just the groundrules. It's simplest to agree on
    things beforehand - that way it's all right there in black and white. 
    
          o  Yes/No pets (and other building rules). 
          o  Rent is payable and due to the owner on the first of every
             month.
          o  Rent per month is fixed at a total of $X00, of which each
             tenant will pay (fraction or $X00). 
          o  Gas, cable and electricity per month will be paid as follows...
          o  The telephone basic rate will be split, and long-distance
             calls will be paid by the caller, on time and on a monthly
             basis.
          o  Simple repairs to the apartment, or replacement of "consum-
             ables" - hardware, cleaning supplies, etc. - will be tallied
             and split evenly.
          o  Shared apartment space will remain fairly uncluttered a
             majority of the time.
          o  Cleaning chores for shared space will be split evenly.
          o  Stereos must be kept at a reasonable level (where reasonable
             is what co-occupants and the neighbors decree).
          o  Keep things fairly quiet after 11 or so in the evening.
          o  Wash the dishes you use - or if meals are shared, one can
             cook and one can clean on a rotating basis.
          o  Keep rowdiness down to a minimum when you have guests over.
          o  These ground rules are subject to change at our mutual conve-
             nience and by mutual agreement. Cooperation is key.

    On the discussion of male -vs- female roommates...During my 4 years
    in college, I lived for 1 year in the dorms, 1 1/2 years in an
    appartment with 4 other women and 1 1/2 years in an appartment with
    3 guys.  After all that, I can't really say which situation I think
    is better. When I moved in with the guys, I had just been through
    a rough period with a lot of emotional game-playing (taking sides
    and ganging-up garbage) with my female roomies. I was thrilled to
    death to move into an environment where that kind of stuff wasn't
    really an issue. "The guys" (as I so affectionately called them)
    were very laid back and just kind of dealt with things as they came
    along. There were different kinds of problems with the guys, though.
    They had a higher tolerance, in many cases, for clutter and/or plain
    old dirt than I did. Often, I had to fight with myself to keep from
    doing all the cleaning. I refused to allow myself to get caught
    in the role of playing mommy. (Of course there were trades, sometimes.
    I can remember ironing a shirt for one of the guys before he went
    on a date because he was having a tough time of it. And he often helped
    me with problems with my car. (something I know very little about.)
    And they always came to me to ask how to cook something. (in fact, one 
    of the guys called me a couple of weeks ago to ask a cooking question.)
    
    So much of it has to do with who the actual people in question are.
    If I had to decide again about finding a male or a female roommate,
    I would think real hard about what kinds of things would bother
    me more.
    
    One more thing. A while back, (maybe reply .5?) a point was made
    that I would like to reiterate. It's THE most important thing to
    think about when choosing a roommate, I think. Can you tell them
    when something is bugging you? And can they tell you? And how do
    you each react? My current roommate has been a good friend for a
    long time. The reason we decided to live together is that we can
    each tell the other when something is/is not being done that we
    feel should not/should be. I can't stress enough how important this
    is.
    
    Good luck in your search.
    
    -Amy.
    

    I'm on the other side of this right now, since I'm looking for a
    place to live.  I checked out one possibility today and it was
    interesting.  In the written agreement,
    
    We pause for this important safety tip:  ALWAYS get a written
    agreement.  Now back to our regularly scheduled reply.
    
    one of the items was that I would speak up about any problems I
    was having with the situation and that I would enter into these
    discussions in good faith.  She agreed to the same.
    
    Another item was that I would get a separate phone, which I wanted
    to do anyway.  Another item, and something we discussed, was division
    of household chores and 'staple' items.  Basically, the plan was
    to alternate.  And something we discussed was 'personal space' --
    we both want lots of it.  We expect to get along but we don't plan
    on being best friends or great buddies.

    Regarding .3, how do you get into Classified Ads?  I have tried,
    but haven't gotten in, maybe I have the wrong node or something.
    
    Thank
    Steph
    

    I got  some mail this morning saying that the node that previously
    hosted  Classified_Ads  can  no longer support the load. In anyone
    has  a  node  that can support it and can volunteer enough time to
    run it, it will reappear.

--David

    Classified Ads is on node TECHNO
    
    KP7 and all that jazz...

    One more thing to do is give your potential roommate a 'vocabulary
    test' to be sure you are both understanding what each one means.  
    
    For an extreme Oscar/Felix example, which could come about innocently
    enough:  You ask, "I like to keep things neat and clean, how about
    you?" and the answer comes back, "sure, neat and clean is great, I
    don't want to live in a pig sty".  Now at this point is appears as if
    you both agree, but if your definition of a clean abode is sterile with 
    plastic covers over everything and your potential roomie's definition 
    is a path kicked through the junk wide enough to walk through you will 
    probably run into some problems.  
    
    What is noisy?  What is quiet?  What is on-time?  Who waits for the
    repairman?   Understanding this stuff up front will save headaches and
    possible hard feelings or tension later on.
    
    Conni

    re: .22
    
    Well said, Conni and I second that motion; I only wish I'd had
    that advice years ago.
    
    Steve
    

    
    A couple of years ago I had a landlord who insisted that EVERYONE's
    name be on the lease, so if one person skipped out, the others would
    still be completely responsible. Is this the case? Or, if it had
    happened, would the others only have been responsible for their
    share, as some people implied early on in this note?
    
    It may be too late to give advice, but I went through hell with
    roommates who were pigs last year, even though when I interviewed
    them, I specified that the one thing I cared most about was keeping
    the kitchen clean. They all nodded in agreement of course. Later
    we got a new roommate who was much more enthusiastic about cleanliness.
    He may have even brought the issue up himself at the interview.
    I would watch for how someone reacts to your bringing up issues
    like this. Agreeing isn't necessarily enough. When someone is looking
    for a place to live, they will say or do ANYTHING to make a good
    impression. Ask what their previous roommate situations were like.
    Was the person they lived with "too clean?" or not clean enough?
    (If it's the latter, you're on the right track, assuming you are
    reasonably clean)
    
    Also, I had trouble with a roommate who got very defensive if you
    asked her to clean up her mess (spagetti sauce splattered all over
    an oven range for three days is a good example). Make sure you get
    someone who (as far as you can tell) is rational, mature, and
    emotionally secure, so they can take this kind of criticism.
    
    Finally, meet with the person a number of times to get to know them,
    if possible. Maybe have lunch, or whatever. Just making normal
    conversation with someone will reveal a lot about their values.
    
    Good luck! You'll need it. I am so thankful to finally have my own
    apartment after five years of roommates!
    
    Roberta
                                     

    re: .24
    
    Sounds like good advice to me and I'd add (perhaps redundantly)
    that some reality checking around definitions helps, too.
    
    Like f'rinstance, it's easy for everyone to agree that "all 
    roomates will do their share in keeping the "group" rooms
    of the place clean on a regular basis"
    
    So what's clean (with real examples - what Felix considers
    "reasonably clean" Oscar sees as "surgically antiseptic")?
    What regular basis?  Every day?  Week?  Fortnight?  Glacial
    epoch?  What's "my" share?
    
    Steve