Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    RE: .0
    
    No, it's not just you young'uns...I'm 42 and it's time to do something
    different again...been thinkin' about it.
    
    The ideas that a) it might hurt and b)what if I decided later I don't
    want it are what have kept me from taking the plunge so far. Not
    to mention the fact that tattoo parlors are illegal in Mass...
    
    --DE
    

    I am only 22 too, but I never considered or will consider getting
    a tattoo.  I personally do not think they have a place on anyone's
    body (male or female).  
    
    I do know someone who got a tattoo (a female).  She got a butterfly
    on her ankle when she was 19 and now that she is 30 she wants to
    have it removed.  I really see no point in marking up your body
    that way.  Have you considered that the needles they use to make
    tattoos may not necessarily be sterile??  I wouldn't chance it in
    this day and age.
    
    Just my opinion - perhaps others have different ideas.

    Why would you want to do something that's nearly irreversible just
    because you want a change?  Surely you could think of something
    less painful and less permanent.  You might think they're "cool"
    now, but what about 20 years from now?
    
    I've always thought tatoos (on men and women) were disgusting.
    
    
    

    My first impression upon seeing tatoos -
    
      On a woman - she must be sort've tough and wild,
                   I wonder if she's a bikey (Ha-ha)  :-)
    
      On a man   - he must have been in the service,
                   I wonder if he's a bikey :-)
                   (I wonder if he's a macho jerk) :-)
    
    The above are prejudices, based upon my age and the environment
    I grew up in.
    
    When I think about it longer, I think:  I don't find tatoos to be
    especially classy or attractive on either men or women.  I personally
    hate pain, and will avoid it at all costs.  There's not much I want
    bad enough to feel physical pain for.  However, I support and respect
    the right of any other individual to have a tatoo if they so desire.
    
    There are tatoo parlors in both Portsmouth, NH, and Newport, RI.
     I've looked in the windows at the weird pictures of people half
    covered with tatoos many times.
    
    Lorna
    

    I wanted one when I was a teenager...I wanted a tiny tiny rosebud
    or cross...I don't know why I never got one...I guess I never got
    around to it....nothing changed my mind...I didn't want one to look
    tough or anything, and I didn't think they were 'cool', I thought
    it would of been 'cute'...  i was already tough and wild :^) :^)
    
    Now I wouldn't dream of it, because I hear it hurts when you get
    em....back then I didn't care, now I do....
    
    Tanya

    Some tattoos that I have seen on men are real works of art. I have
    found them attractive enough as art to compliment the owner a�nd
    gotten pleased surprise when I did so. It isn't something I'd like
    to do - tho I will admit to a fleeting thought about a butterfly
    or flower bud back in my very early twenties (my pseudo hippy days
    :-).) There used to be body decals that you could wear to simulate 
    the effect of a tattoo with out the pain and permanence. If these 
    are still available that might be a way to let you fufill your 
    desire for a decoration and let you decide later if you really want
    to make it permanent. Another thought that has occured to me is
    that you might get the same effect as the decals by using theatrical
    body paints.
    
    Bonnie
    

    Hi DE,
    
    I'm new writing in this note file tho I have been reading it for
    quite awhile.  Your note caught my attention.  I have a Rose on
    my ankle, and have had it for at least 10 years.  I'm in my fourty.
    
    Most of the time, I don't even remember its there.  But I will tell
    you, I have never been sorry.  I love it.  And I find most of the
    people I know, like it too.  Infact I have taken three of my
    girlfriends up to get one.  My daughter wants one, and when we have
    the time, she will be getting one also.  She is 22.  
    
    Yes, it hurts.  Go with someone to keep talking to you, if you really
    want to go through with it.  But I will agree with the person that
    said to try something simplier first.  Make sure thats what you
    want.  Then if you are.  There are places all over New Hamshire
    to have it done.    To have them removed after, is much much more
    painful.  The colors fade, and sometime you have them done again.
    I have.  Oil, makes them stand out.  When you walk out of the place
    you will know something was done to your leg, body etc.  But it
    doesn't last.  
    
    As far as the needles go, there is nobody more of a coward then
    me, I use to give my kids to the doctor and leave.  I wasn't thrilled
    about the idea, but I wanted it bad enought.  And the needles are
    Clean.  Most places don't want to take the chance of getting in
    trouble.  Again, check......ask around.  See what people will say.
    
    I won't lie to you, your leg, whatever, will know you have something
    new.  But think it out totally, your not going to want it taken
    off later.  (They sand it OFF)  
    
    Good luck in whatever you deside.
    
    

	Well, gee, I guess I must be gross and disgusting because I have a
	tatoo. It's a butterfly (in 4 colors) on my hip. My ex convininced
	me to go for it as I was a big Janis fan and loved hers. It only
	shows if I'm nekked or wearing hip huggers and I've never been sorry
	I got it. 

	It reminds me fondly of my hippy days, hitching rides across the country
	finding alternate realities, and just generally being part of the love
	generation. I used to paint my face and live in group houses (not
	communes but more than roommates) too. My biggest fear used to be that
	I'd grow up and live in a house in the burbs with a two car garage.
	Sigh, it happened. (but inside, where it counts, I'm still the little
	hippy chick, now where did I put my embroidered jeans?)

	It does hurt, the black color especially. You probably should consider
	very carefully where you have it done. If you put it somewhere that it
	always shows you may regret it. Besides, it's more fun if it only shows
	when you're in the mood for it to show. 

	liesl 

	P.S. I've only been on a motorcycle a couple of times and never with
	a 'real' biker. 

    is this question exclusive to women only?
    
    If not I have a few and would be willing to "tell all".

    
    I have a friend who got a Tweety Bird on her left ankle.  She never told
    her parents, and once when her parents came to visit, they all got
    dressed up to go out to the theater.  My friend spent the entire
    evening trying to stay to the left of her mother, so that she wouldn't
    see.  I guess her Drill Instructors in the Marines had a few choice
    things to say about it too . . .
    
    Personally, I'm much too much of a chicken to even consider it!
    I can't believe I recently got another hole in my ear!  George Bush
    has nothing on me -- wimp, *wimp* WIMP!!!
    
    Sharon

    In my opinion, tattoos are like most anything else -- they can be
    "used or abused". I've known a couple of women with tattoos. One
    had a small butterfly just above one breast. Another had a rose
    on one of her shoulder blades. Both of these looked rather nice
    and unobstrusive. I've also met a woman who has a large dragon
    tattoo covering most of her back (and she often wears low-back
    outfits to display it), and I think it looks...well, not gross and
    disgusting, but not particularly attractive.
    
    Something small and unobstrusive like a rose is also something
    that you're less likely to want to get rid of later.
    
    (I suppose I should note that I find tattoos on women to be more
    attractive than on men. Mostly, it's because the majority of men's
    tattoos seem to be rather silly and macho in subject than artful.
    Secondly, the generally more hirsute skin on men doesn't go with
    tattoos as well.)
    
    --- jerry

    My sister-in-law has a flower tatooed on her ankle.  It's about
    two inches long, blue and green.  She has very slim attractive
    ankles, and often wears a gold chain on the same ankle as the
    tatoo to really call attention to them.  Very attractive and
    different.
    
    I'm not sure how old she is, but she's older than me.  She got it
    when she was in college to annoy her mother, but her mother,
    wonderful woman that she is, smiled and said, "That's a very
    pretty flower, Lynn." As far as I know, she's never regretted it. 

    And I knew a woman who had a ladybug tatooed on her cheek.
    Complete strangers would come over in a crowd and try to shoo her
    ladybug away.  She thought it was funny. She was strange in many
    many ways . . . 
    
    I believe tatoo parlors in NH are regulated by the state; the
    reputable ones use carefully sterilized needles to avoid spreading
    hepatitis.  You might want to check that before you do anything
    drastic.  I suspect that a legal parlor in NH is a better bet
    than an illegal one in Mass.  
    
    I've thought of getting a tatoo, same as I've thought of getting
    my ears pierced.  But I just don't want to do any permanent
    monkeying with my body.  I like the one I've got.  [Haven't
    even cut my hair for years and years.]
    
    --bonnie

    
    
    I would like to thank all of you for your opinions.  I have decided
    to have it done on my shoulder blade ( haven't decided which one).
    I don't want it in a place where it will show all the time. I haven't
    decided what I am going to get yet.  I am an owl collector and they
    have a few to choose from, but I don't really want to get one because
    I am sure my love for owls will fade and then I'll be stuck with
    it.  Maybe a butterfly or a rose - something that doesn't have alot
    of detail and isn't too big. And I don't think it's gross.  My 
    husband just got one done this past Sunday up in Seabrook, NH.  A 
    place called Jim's Tattoo's on Rt. 1.  This place is clean, and so 
    are the needles.  I watched them do the whole thing, which took 1 hour 
    and 15 minutes.  He got a dragon with wings on his right forearm.  
    Some people might think, a dragon with wings?  That's gross!  But it 
    looks good. It has alot of colors in it - blue, green, red, orange and 
    yellow.  He had an old tattoo covered.  He had a home jobber there
    and we were really sick of looking at it so he got something better.
    It did look painful, and I am not one who likes needles either, but he 
    said I would get over it.  He said it feels like a burning feeling,
    and if you have one that has alot of detail, or alot of color, it 
    does get aggravating. He also has a heart on his left arm that he 
    got last year.  It has a ribbon going across it with my name on it.  
    And when I go in about a month to get mine, he will be getting two
    more, one on his left forearm to cover up another home jobber that
    he has there now, and one in the area between his right thumb and
    first finger.
    
    
    
    

    Personally, I would never brand my body that way.  My SO has one
    and I hate it on him, too.
    
    Sue
    

    I for one like, on men or women, a small, tasteful tattoo.  I don't
    have one, don't really want one, but I DID think about it once.
    What I DON'T like is either 1) large, huge, elaborate ones or 2)
    just a word in plain lettering.  The Stray Cats have great music,
    but I can't stand to look at them unless they are wearing sleeves.
    
    For the record, I once commented to a girl (we were both in high
    school) on a most beautiful butterfly tattoo on her wrist.  All
    I said was "That is a beautiful tattoo".  I got beat up for it.
    
    My husband hates tattoos, and doesn't have his ears pierced either.
    (I have two holes per ear).  That is fine with me, as I don't really
    like pierced ears on men (but that is a different topic).
    
    K.C.

    Well, there is something that no one mentioned that I think should
    be considered.  One of my husband's friends had a tattoo done on
    his arm, and turned out to be allergic to the ink or whatever. He
    ended up nearly scratching the tattoo off because it was so itchy
    and irritating.  I think he had to have it removed because the reaction
    wouldn't seem to go away.  I don't know how you'd check to see if
    you would have such an allergic reaction, but I'm one of those people
    who's allergic to things like scent, so it would be something that
    I would be concerned about before having it done.
    
    And for the record, I don't like any kind of tattoos on men or women,
    but if you want one, go ahead and do it.
    
    Cathy
                                                                       

    I like the idea of a small strategically located tattoo, but I am too
    much of a chicken to get a real one, and I change my mind so often, so
    I have found tattoos that are much like decals, and whenever I get in
    the mood to try something different I just wet one of these flowers,
    butterflies or moonbeams and paste it on my shoulder or my chest.  I do
    this mostly in the summer so they can be seen when I wear a bathing
    suit. (But I have also put one where only my closest friend would find
    it!!)tee hee. 

    -Dotti.    

    
    I have had my tattoo's for many years, gasp more then one, and don't
    regret it at all.  The first one was the results of a all day/night
    party and we all decided to get one.. 
    
    The other I got after recieving full membership in a Motorcycle
    Club, and it was required. I spent over one year and earned it,
    still don't regret it.
    
    One is a Harley Davidson Eagle and the other is the Club Emblem.
    They;re not gaudy or foolish designs, at least from my perspective.
    
    My wife decided she wanted one and has a Butterfly sitting on a
    flower on her ankle, she also has a small flower on her wrist. 
    
    When you do get the Tattoo it's like scrapping your skin and it
    forms a scab. I would advise you keeping Nirosporum on it until
    it heals, and be carefull of it for a few weeks.
    
    My wife and I never regret our tatoos, but it's like everything
    else, it's something we wanted to do, and it's not for everyone.
    
    Cal.
    

    re .0 Maybe it's the bars I frequent, but, whenever I see a tattoo
    on a woman I get this image of her on the back of a Harley driven
    by some Neanderthal.

    Sanitary or Aids..  You can get aids from a tattoo if the needles
    are not sanitized.  If the risk is worth the art go for it, as
    for me I would never wear a tattoo, just another Identifying mark,
    and I worked in the Military, (Yes, 12 years in the Navy and no
    tattoos) and If you get into intellegence that is a mark that you
    just do not need.
    
    Your decision...
    
    Dave

    My ex-boyfriend had an ex-girlfriend who had the words "Still Loaded"
    tatooed on her arm.  It inspired him to write a song, but I can't
    say she was one of the classiest looking women I've ever seen!
    
    (She looked like a "motorcycle mama"!)
    
    Lorna
     

    
    re .22
    
    Do you think that I or anybody would take a chance of getting
    Aids to have a permanent mark put on their body?  No!  The needles
    are *CLEAN*.  As I said earlier, I watched them do my husband's
    and they are not using unsanitized needles.  Do you think that people
    would be in the business to spread diseases???
    
    

    
    A licensed Tattoo parlor has to have and use sterilizing equipment.
    
    The first thing I did was check out the operation.
    o after each customer, or victim ;^) , a new set of needles is used.
     1 for the outline, one for fine work, and one for shading.. usually
     multi points.
    
    o The used needles are put in the sterilizer, and sterlized. 
    
    o New color tubs are used, along with fresh ink.
    
    In the two artists I went to and the many customers they had I never
    heard of any problems, except the individuals ability to hold certain
    colors..
    
    Cal.
    
    

    So, if I decide to get a tattoo, and I ride my *own* motorcycle,
    am I The Neanderthal, or am I The Mama?
    
    (Just trying to pick my stereotypes before I get the tattoo)
    
    (....maybe something tasteful in whips and chains...)
    
    --DE
    

    My sister got a tatoo on her right shoulder many, many years ago
    and she hated it from day one.  It was a perfessional job of a
    mushroom, but she said it itched all the time.  After she got married
    to a man that hated mushrooms ;-} she decided to have the Harley
    Davidson eagle head put over it.  Now you can't even tell where
    the mushroom was and she swears that it doesn't itch any more.
    
    My brother rides in a motorcycle gang (yes, GANG, not CLUB).  I
    know that he has several tatoo's, but they're also professional
    jobs and look nice.  The only problem is one of them has his ex
    wife's initial's in it and his present wife bit*hes about it!! 
    BTW, his ex-wife had a Harley Davidson eagle - the body of the eagle
    went down her left arm and stopped right above her elbow.  One wing
    went across her back the other one went across her chest.  I didn't
    particualarly care for it, but she was an "exotic" dancer in her
    earlier years and she claimed that it was the "in" thing with the
    dancers!!  
    
    Motorcycle riders AREN'T as bad as everyone thinks they are, they
    just get more publicity because they have the "reputation" of being
    bad.  You don't hear about their "good" deeds too often.  The Harley
    Davidson clubs have organized "runs" for Muscular Dystrophy, Toys
    for Tots at Christmas and a lot of other things, but that is a totally
    different subject.
    
    I say if you want a tatoo, go for it, but make SURE it is something
    you won't mind having for ever!!
    
    Virginia

    re: .27
    
    Dawn, maybe we can start a new stereotype -- we can be Neanderthal
    Mamas! 
    
    --bonnie

  My father runs an auto parts store, and one of his regular
  customers is a biker.
  This biker is completely bald and has the Harley-Davidson
  wings tatooed across his head!

    RE: .29, .27
    
    Bonnie,
    
    Sounds good to me! Do we need to learn to talk like Rambo?
    
    Can you see it...? A black leather jacket with 
    
                "NEANDERTHAL MAMAS" 
    
    on the back. We'd need a logo, tho'....hmmm.....
    
    (Or maybe something in MAUVE leather, with a whip-and-chain logo....)
    
    :-)
    
    --DE
    

    You know what this whole thing cracks me up if a woman or a man
    has a tattoo you automaticaly asumme that they are a bikey.
    
    But I don't believe that one bit because I have one and if you looked
    at me you would never even think that I was the type to have one.
    
    You can see mine when I wear a bathing suite but even then if you
    saw me I don't look like the type.  People aways do that if you
    don't like something you automatical assume that they are bad people.
    
    I not proud of it but hay we most people think about it at one point
    or another and some of us just follow through with it. 
    
    In my case I got mine when I was fourteen years old only becasue
    my ex-boyfriend thought it would be nice but two years ago I hated
    it and even long before that but two years ago is when I changed
    it I now have a rose.
    
    I just wanted to say was that it doesn't make me a bad person just
    becasue I have one.  How do you know when you look at me that I
    don't hate it myself.  People say oh god she looks gross but like
    I said how do you know how I feel about it.!!!

    re: .31 
    
    I like the idea of mauve leather.  
    
    The logo could be a mauve Harley eagle with one claw full of chains
    and the other full of orchids . . .
    
    I think I'll have it tatooed on my upper thigh.
    
    --bonnie    

    Re .32, I can't speak for the others, but when I say that I don't
    find tattoos to be especially attractive, that doesn't mean that
    I think the people who have them are "bad"!  It just means I don't
    think the tattoos are attractive, that's all.  I hope it takes a
    little bit more than having a tattoo to make me think a person is
    "bad"!
    
    As far as the bikey image goes, I said that that is my first
    impression, which is because when I was a kid in the 50's or 60's
    it seemed to me that the only people with tattoos were either bikeys
    or guys in the Navy.  When I stop and think about it I realize that
    tattoos are more in style now for everybody and that they don't
    necessarily mean anything more than that the person felt like a
    change or doing something wild and crazy, or even keeping up with
    the latest fashion.
    
    I also don't think that just because someone is a "bikey" that that
    means they rape and murder but it's a stereotype that was created
    because of movies like "The Wild Ones" (?) with Marlon Brando and
    some of the bad publicity that the Hells Angles have gotten.
    
    I do realize that everyone is an individual and that merely having
    a little rose on her shoulder does not make a person scum.   I still
    don't really like the way they look, though.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Lorna,
    
    Yes you are right, the movies in the 60's loved to show the "Big,
    Bad Bikey" movies, especially at the drive in. 
    
    As a member in good standing of a large Motorcycle "club", always
    hated the word "Gang", it was always assumed we were going to act
    in that wild and crazy way..
    
    Granted there always is one fool who helps out that image, but most
    don't want anything to do with it.
    
    One of the best pictures to date that reflect somewhat the Biker
    is Mask.
    
    Hey we even bath twice a month!!    ;^)  ;^)  
    
    Cal.
    

    
    
    	I like the harley davison eagles.  The only kind of tattoos
    that I don't like are - snakes, naked ladies, or skull heads.  There
    are probably a few others that I dislike, but I can't think of them
    off the top of my head...oh yeah - and spiders.
    
    

    RE: .35 (I think - Cal)
    
    Us bikies even bathe twice a month.....
    
      WHETHER WE NEED IT OR NOT!
    
    ;-)
    
    

    I have never liked tattoos on men or women.  I think they look cheap
    and tough.  Even though Winston Churchill's mother (Jenny) had a
    small one on her shoulder (a small flower).  If I were you, I'd
    think long and hard about this one.
    
    RK

    Well since DE, seems to have made up her mind to get one with all
    the Good and Bad, I for one wish you the best.  I hope she enjoys
    it, and the two day, two weeks,  two months down the line she doesn't
    look in a mirror and say OH MY...... 
    
    If its what you want and have thought it out, and you know the needles
    are clean, and you are not going to have a *cold*  tomorrow, and
    your friends, have told you about a friend or a friend who had it
    done, and you still want to suffer the burning, and the itching...
    and maybe the questions years later.....THEN GO FOR IT.... the only
    one you have to please is YOU.....
    
    
    From one make believe bikey to another....:-)  Happy Butterflies,
    and Roses....

    RE: .39 - "make believe bikey"
    
    I perhaps should make it clear that I am a *real* "bikey", with
    a *real* bike, that I *really* ride!
    
    ...and I'm *still* not sure about the tattoo...
    
    --DE
    

    RE: .40
    
    Say, Dawn. Can I interest you in my '81 Harley that I haven't
    used at all in the last two years (but which, for some strange
    reason, I've been keeping insured and registered the whole time)?
    
      Alan

    I have two small roses on my right shoulder, and one small red rose
    very close to the clevage.  None of my tattoos show unless I want
    them too.  I have had them since 1974.  I got them cause I liked
    them.  I am a professional, well groomed person.  I dress well and
    take very good care of myself. I have never been a biker.  
    when I see another woman with a tattoo I have never had
    the urge to think anything negitive associated with the tattoo.
    The little rose on my breast hurt the worst, but I still love it.
    personnaly, I could care less what anyones perception of me was
    because they were so narrowminded to think they had the right to
    determine what I was like because I have tattoos. 
    if they want to classify me as tough, great, gives me the advantage 
    of being able to be tough and then blame it on my tattoo.  then I 
    could ride a bike too and that would be ok.  yup, the tattoo makes 
    the person.  This sounds familiar, just like being judged a certain
    way because of being a woman, or a single parent, or heterosexual
    or gay or any of the other pegs people like to put other people into.
    
    As was said previously, if you want the tattoo, get it.  however
    be prepared for narrowmindedness.  also be aware that there are
    occasions where you may not want it seen.  so pick the location
    carefully. The colors are important also.  one of the roses on my
    shoulder is yellow(egads, for Texas)and the yellow sometimes fads.
    A suntan also brings out the colors more.  The pain is real, sometimes
    it does seem to hurt worse because of location.  any tattoo artist
    would welcome you to check out his establishment.  Sterilizers are
    required by most states laws.  If they don't have one, dont go there.
    that simple.
    as for some peoples assumptions, ignore them.
    
    vivian
    vivian

    Yeah! I think it's a great idea!
     
    - Mary 

    RE: .41
    
    Am I interested in a *Harley*?!?!
    
    Is the Pope Polish?
    
    One question, tho': Is it free? If it's free, I can afford it!
    
    (Uhm...Alan, if you're keeping it insured and registered, isn't
    there a "bikey" somewhere in your subconscious who wants to ride
    it? Maybe you oughta let him!)
    
    Dawn
    

		I have 2 tattoo's.  One on my right shoulder
	that was done on my 18th birthday at Jim's Place mentioned
	earlier.  I HIGHLY recommend them.  I had a 4.5 inch
	rose done.  We told the artist it was a birthday present
	from the person I was with, he then added several extra
	"flourishes" and colors.  I still get ALOT of compliments
	on this tattoo and its 7 years old (still looks brand new)
	
		My other tattoo is on the inside of my left
	shin.  I had it done in Lakeport, N.H.  at L.A. East
	Studio of tattoo.  This one is also 7 years old.  Its
	really starting to fade out...

		I compare the "pain" of getting a tattoo to getting
	a little zap when you accidently plug something in and are
	touching the plug.  And the only time you feel this pain is
	if the tattoo is over a boney area.  The one on my shin did
	not hurt at all.  My shoulder did when they did the outline
	over my shoulder blade.

		Anyways, definatly go to Jims.  I seem to remember
	he told me if I had a picture of what I wanted for a tattoo
	he could free hand do it.

		I still have the card from L.A.East.. on the back
	it has the care of a new tattoo
	
	1.  Bacitracin 3-4 times a day
	2.  At night cover with Saran wrap ONLY
	3.  tattoo should heal in 3-7 days.

	they also told me to keep it out of the sun.  Also, if you
	have one done on your stomach, they told me if I ever gained
	weight, or got pregnant it would stretch the tattoo out of
	shape..  
						/Robin

    RE .0 NOTE ABOUT WHETHER TO GET A TATTOO OR NOT...
    
    Had fun reading all the replies.  Seems like us "ladies" with tattoos
    are in the minority.  First I should say that I got my tattoo when
    I was 43 or 44.  Had always wanted one and while in California on
    vacation (stone sober and in broad daylight) went to a tattoo parlor
    my brother recommended and had a small dove of peace with an olive
    branch in his beak and a heart under him tattooed on the outside
    of my right thigh.  I absolutely love it and have no regrets about
    getting it done.  Wish I had done it years sooner.  I have been
    looking for somewhere to go and have a rainbow put under it so think
    I will try Jim's.
    
    In all honesty it did hurt, but it wasn't excruciating.  The black
    outline hurt much more than putting on the colors did.  It didn't
    hurt so much that I wouldn't go get another one though.  I did know
    it was on my leg when I walked out of there and it was sore for
    a few days, but that's it.  With regard to allergies--I'm allergic
    to almost everything and had no problem with an allergic reaction
    to the dye they used.  The place I went to was very clean.  They
    used sterilizers for the needles and fresh dye pots for each customer.
    I didn't get sick, infected, etc. from having it done.
    
    The man that did mine told me to keep it out of the sun as much
    as possible or to use sun block over it because the sun will make
    them fade.  Also told me to use cream on it to keep it soft and
    the colors bright.  I have done that since I got it and it still
    looks brand new.  If it does fade I will go and have it recolored.
    
    I am far from a "motorcycle mama" etc.  To bad tattoos have to evoke
    stereotypes.  I must say though that when I came home from vacation
    and showed my three grown sons my tattoo they were dumbfounded and
    said something like, "Most of my friend's mothers would kill them
    if they came home with a tattoo--we've got a mother who comes home
    with one instead!"  They did think it was very pretty though and
    have talked about getting one themselves, but none of them has done
    so yet.
    
    I think the bottom line for anyone is whether they really want one
    or not.  I did, so I went and had it done.  I'm comfortable with
    it and really don't care what anyone else thinks about it.  My
    philosophy for such things is live and let live.  If the world and
    the people who live in it were less judgmental wouldn't it be lovely!
      

       After thinking about this some more it occured to me that
       probably no one in this file could look at us "painted ladies"
       and tell we had tatoos. (unless someone has one that shows all
       the time). We look like everyone else and aren't particularly
       wicked women (though I might like to be :*)) - There weren't many
       of us that replied to this note but you'll notice there were few
       if any regrets. I've even considered having mine perked up and
       making it fancier after our discussions. liesl 

    RE. .47
    After reading this file yesterday and replying about my tattoo
    I found myself lying in bed last night thinking about getting mine
    "fancied" up some more too.  Wanted to have a rainbow put under
    my little dove of peace, but think now I'll have small mountains
    with the sun setting and a little rainbow above and to the side
    of the bird.  It will be even more beautiful than it is now.
    
	Pat    

    I haven't read all the replies yet, only up to 17 but I do want
    to get involved.
    
    I have a tatoo.  It's a blue heart with a rainbow over it.  I made
   the design myself.  It's on my right outer thigh.  I got it during
    a sad but hopefull time of my life.  blue heart, (sadness) rainbow
    (with a ray of hope); get it?  I've had it for maybe 7 years.
    
    Anyways,  I've never regretted it yet, (early 30'ties).  I basically
    forgot that it's there.  I was reminded when I was pregnant last
    year and a nurse mentioned it.  She wanted to know if it hurt. 
    Mind didn't hurt to get done, (it's a meatier part of the body than
    the ankle)  
    
    My tatoo has faded and I'd like it redone, or changed to something
    different.  I'd like a different one, but I don't want two of them.
    
    I think it'd be kinda neat having a tatoo when I'm in my 70'ties...
    
    Anna
    

    I plan on getting one... sometime.  Haven't had the opportunity
    or time yet.
    
    My SO has several, though they're old and faded.  He plans to
    get some of them updated and include another.  (HARLEY-DAVIDSON!)
    
    It's a shame everything we do in life, falls under someone's
    stereotypes.  I refuse to let it run my life.
    
    t.

    TATTOOS ON WOMAN 
    
    
       No way,,Sorry ladies, I got 2 on my arm and I dont regrete getting
    
    them. but Im sorry I dont like them on a woman :"only my opinion":
    
    I saw this pretty woman in a club on night, and on her ankle was
    
    snake "tattoo" wrapped around it, I know its wrong to say I am not
    
    to judge, 
                                             Jim

    A tangent on a tangent:  I learned from my daughter over the
    weekend that Liz Taylor's favorite activity these days is riding
    on the back of Malcom Forbes' Harley.  Apparently they're part
    of a gang of about 50 LA businessmen . . .
    
    --bonnie

    Gee this discussion sounds awfully familiar. I thought for a moment
    I had wandered into the MENNOTES discussion on earrings on men...
    
    FWIW I think a tattoo on a woman is great... If SHE thinks it is.
    
    	-- Charles

    I have a good friend who has MANY tatoos.  It seems that for some
    people they are contagious.  She thought one would be enough, but
    then saw another design - and then designed one herself - and then...
    and then... she now has her husband's portrait on her forearm.
                                                                
    The only one I really don't like is a blue heart on her cheek (face). 
    Maybe if it were red..  the blue looks like a bruise.
    
    She likes them all.  That's what matters to her.
                          
    

    My 22 year old daughter got a rose tatoo very highhhhhh on her leg.
    I did not know she had it for about a year, I bought her a high
    legged bathing suit, she tried it on, looked great but I noticed
    a speck on her leg, she turned red and nervous.  I went spastic,
    I asked her what a laugh the undertaker would have when she gets
    embalmed at 80 (hopefully), her response to me was "he won't laugh,
    he will say good for her she must have been a real free spirit in
    her younger days".  I was not nearly as upset with the tatoo as
    I was about the fact that she damn near showed her bare ass to some
    stranger doing the tatoo.

    One thing that I heard about is having permanent eye-liner tattooed
    into the eyes.  This was very popular a few years ago.  Are people
    still doing this?
    
    _I_ wouldn't do that!
    
    K.C.

    Yes, people are still doing it -- I know of some being done
    in an electrolysis clinic.  It's also extraordinarily
    dangerous, as a careless operator can cause eye damage and
    blindness.  I guess I don't see the point in all the risk,
    discomfirt, and money, when it takes so little time to put on
    eyeliner anyway.

    -- Linda

>< Note 211.55 by CLEVER::SULLIVAN "Eileen" >
>                              -< to each is own >-
>
>    My 22 year old daughter got a rose tatoo very highhhhhh on her leg.
>>    I did not know she had it for about a year, I bought her a high
>>    legged bathing suit, she tried it on, looked great but I noticed
>    a speck on her leg, she turned red and nervous.  I went spastic,
>    I asked her what a laugh the undertaker would have when she gets
>    embalmed at 80 (hopefully), her response to me was "he won't laugh,
>    he will say good for her she must have been a real free spirit in
>>    her younger days".  I was not nearly as upset with the tatoo as
>>    I was about the fact that she damn near showed her bare ass to some
>>    stranger doing the tatoo.

More than one stranger will see that spot if she wears the high legged bathing
suit you bought her, so what's the difference?  :)

    Difference is that only a small speck showed with the high legged
    bathing suit !

    
    An anecdote and a request:
    
    I played a wedding a few months ago and a friend of mine sang. She
    was sitting in the congregation and I was sitting at the piano,
    and we noticed that the maid of honor had a big tattoo on her shoulder
    blade, which was exposed by the dress she was wearing. It was so
    incongruous with the formality of the occasion that we almost burst
    out laughing. 
    
    Now the question: 
    
    Can someone explain exactly how tatoos are applied. I don't really
    understand it at all. I know they use needles, and that the tattoo
    is permanent. This is all the knowledge I have. Call me sheltered.
    
    Thanks for any info.
    
    Roberta
    
    

                                                             
    
    	When you pick out the design or picture that you want for a
    tattoo, they have it outlined on like a piece of a clear plastic sheet
    of some kind - I can't describe it.  But anyways, they rub black
    powder on it and then put it on the part of your body that you want
    it done on.  They rub it, and when the lift the piece, the outline
    of the design is there.  They then take like a gun that hold the
    needles, and they do the outline. From there they color it in. 
    It's kind of neat to watch.  And it can be very time consuming
    depending upon the size and detail of the tattoo.  And they are
    rather expensive.  My husband had one done a few months back, I
    have already wrote about it in another reply - it cost $110 and
    some of the color faded out while it was healing.  He plans on going
    back up there, probably after the holidays, to have some spots colored
    in again.  I don't think that they should charge him for it. But,
    we'll see.....
    
    Laura
    
    
    
    I haven't had one done yet, but I will
    at some time.  
                                     
                                                       
    

    Dear Sheltered,
    
    The gun injects ink into your skin. This is why it hurts.
    
    signed,
    
    Somewhat Less Sheltered
    

    It's less like a gun, more like a hand held sewing machine.  
    there are two needles that alternate the sewing motion
    that allows the injection of color into the skin.  Its a very fast
    motion. 
    
    vivian

    	RE: 211.62 and 211.63
    
    	When I was tattoed in 1965, the fella used something like
    	211.63 mentioned, a hand-held sewing machine. Actually,
    	it looked like a pen and had reciprocating needles. The
    	"pen" for outlining a design has less needles and goes
    	in deeper; the "pen" for filling in the color has more
    	needles and goes in less deep. The process is not very
    	painful (IMO); it feels like someone is burning your
    	arm (in my case). I assume a tattoo would be more painful
    	on other, more sensitive parts of the body.
    
    	To reiterate, the ink is not shot or injected into the
    	skin.
    
    	Scott (Yes, one on each arm; I was lopsided with just one)

Anybody remember the Kafka story about capital punishment
administered by tattooing the prisoner over and over with
a description of his crime....?  I think it's published
in a volume of his short stories called "The Penal Colony".

    Haden't read that one since college, a wonderful bit of mechanical
    design. Could be a problem though, if the crime was made up of many
    different charges.
    
    Eric
    

    RE: .64
    
    Excuse me, but I believe the ink is indeed "injected" into the
    skin. It is not simply layered on the top layer of skin, or
    it would eventually disappear. It *has* to be under the first layer
    of skin.
    
    It is not, however, injected into the bloodstream or musculature. 
    
    --DE
    

    	RE: 211.67
    
    	You're excused.
    
    	I think the problem is the word "inject." I form a picture of
    	the guns they used in the Marine Corps to inject <whatever>
    	into our arms. You are correct that the ink is under the first
    	layer of skin.
    
    	Scott

    
    Thanks for the replies. All I can say is...
    
    Gross, yuck, ew!!!!
                          
    
    
    Still_Sheltered_and_plan_to_stay_the_way

<    Thanks for the replies. All I can say is...
<    
<    Gross, yuck, ew!!!!
                          
    

       If you are refering to those of us who are "painted ladies" I
       wish to remind you that if you saw us in person unless we told
       you we had tatoos you'd be hard pressed to guess we were the
       "sort of women" who wore tatoos. liesl

    .-1
    
    I think she was grossing out to the tatoo procedure, not the 
    consumer...
    
    Anna
    

           
    Thanks Anna.
    Yes, exactly. I was grossed out by the idea of having someone inject
    dye under your skin and stick you with needles, etc, etc, etc. 
    
    I certainly didn't mean I was grossed out by people who HAVE tattoos.
                
    Roberta

    
      Mom said if I got a tatoo in the Navy she would disown me!  
    Well when the ship dropped anchor in Thailand I had duty the
    first night (meaning I had to stay on ship while the other
    squids had liberty! this is something you get used to!)  Mom
    doesn't have much control in my life anymore but after a couple
    of years of seeing the basic tatoos one sees in the military
    ie; skulls, knives, born to _____ (any number of things!)
    rebel flags and lots and lots of cartoon characters - getting
    a tatoo wasn't on the top of my things to do list.
    
      But when I saw some of my mates coming back with all sorts of
    exotic artwork I began to have second thoughts.  There was one
    parlor on the beach-head that was turning out some very intricate
    work.  I decided however that if I was to get a tatoo it would be
    my own design.  So when liberty call went down the next day I had
    my Peterson's Eastern birds tucked under my arm along with a 
    sketch including a globe and some musical notes.  I had planned
    to have it placed on my upper arm so that I could wear a short
    sleeve shirt and have it covered.  Not only did this particular
    artist (please note he *was* an artist!)do a great job but the 
    next night (the celebrated night of the Gonzos - another story)
    I got my name added on in Thai!!.
    
    How good was it?  Well, Mom likes it! :-)  And I've never regretted
    it.  
    
    P.S. For those of you thinking about it...
    
    A.)Be sure you can live with it.  If you don't like the designs
       on display most artists will be happy to work on yours or
       *their* own designs.  Also many artists will *not* work on
       someone who has been drinking!
    B.)If you don't like a particular artist check out others. In
       states where it is legal you will find many listed in the
       yellow pages.
    
    By the way  .0    what was the verdict??
    

    
    Hi, there my name is Angelina and i too am one of those woman who
    have had tatoos;and still having them done i love tattoos,i think
    tey are neat and give you alot of attention even though some people
    might think ewe what kind of girl or woman is that (wild) no way
    i have 10 tatoos ranging from names to flowers to colages,and i
    love every one of them my best one is the colage of roses that i
    have from breast to brest know hold on my husband who is a professional
    drawer and artist did these for me. my next favorite is that i have
    a bunny rabbit on and around my belly button,and quess what the
    rabbits rectum is my belly button.so that when i move my stomach
    around my belly buttons makes the rabbit look like it's going #2
    and no i donot regret them i love them next i will be getting a
    virgin mary on my back,heck the pain no there is no pain it's only
    in one persons mind.there is a scratch but i don't feel the pain
    like i said i have alot of them but  i too am a respectable lady
    and i don't care of what people think of me having them.
    and as too those know get or think about getting them it's better
    to get one that you will always like and that is colorful.
    angelina

    I can't imagine a classy elegant lady having a tattoo.....
    They seem a little "Rosanne Barr-ish" to me...
    
    Don't do it...

>    I can't imagine a classy elegant lady having a tattoo.....
>    They seem a little "Rosanne Barr-ish" to me...


	 Hahah.....you would be surprised what's 'under there' on
	 someone the classiest women you know.


	 :-)

	 kath

    Re: .76
    
    Whadda ya got against Roseanne?
    
    	-- Charles

    re .76
    
    Watch it, that's my classy, elegant wife you're talking about!
    
    ed

    RE: .76
    
    Roseanne Barr *is* classy. 
    
    Is she "beautiful", as this society sees it? No.
    
    Is she 100% herself, and to heck with what *you* think? Yep.
    Does she give a damn if you think she's Fat-and-Ugly? Nope.
    
    That's class.
    
    
    --DE
    

    Well Laura, I have read all replies to your note. There is still no
    clue as to whether or not you ever got your tattoo. At this point I'm
    just curious and I'm sure other Noters are too.
    
    I thought about getting a tattoo for about a year before having it
    done, but alas, I was 29 when I had my first tattoo done, in three
    stages. First I got the unicorn, a couple of months later I added a
    rainbow and by the end of the summer I had clouds added to the bottom.
    I LOVE IT!! It is located on my arm, high enough so that it is still
    hidden when I wear a t-shirt. I like it this way, as I can see it for
    my own enjoyment. Plus, if anyone asked to see it, we don't have to go
    behind closed doors.
    
    	Now, I _don't_ think I would have had that done, if it "hurt", so
    	to speak. I don't think it "hurts", it's just a sensation that I'm
    	not used to. Of course, I can talk with the voice of experience
    	when I say that it depends on _where_ you get the tattoo.
    
    My second tattoo I got about two years ago. This one is entwind hearts
    with an arrow through them and a rose to the left of them. Now, this one
    I would definately say it HURT!! I got it just above my left breast
    where there is less "cushion" and more bone.
    
    I say, do your own thing! If you want a tattoo, get one, but you are
    going to have to live with it. There are procedures similar to skin
    graphs which do remove most of the tattoo, if you are willing to go
    through that to have them removed, so yes, you _can_ get rid of them,
    if need be. Of course, I'm not waiting in that line!!
    
    Good luck and I _do_ hope youdecide to let your fellow Noters know what
    you decide to do.

>    Is she 100% herself, and to heck with what *you* think? Yep.
>    Does she give a damn if you think she's Fat-and-Ugly? Nope.
    
>    That's class.

 Nope. That's not caring about what other people think. Attila the Hun didn't
care too much about public opinion, either, but that didn't give him "class."

 The Doctah

    Comparing Roseanne Barr to Atilla the Hun is way out of the ballpark.
    
    
    --DE
    

    Nobody compared Roseanne Barr to Attila the Hun (or even "Atilla the
    Hun", his meek cousin from Detroit) that I saw. There were both
    referenced in the same note, but that's not the same thing. The point
    was well taken - if behavior X denotes class in Roseanne Barr, it would
    denote class in you, or me or ... Attila the Hun even. It's the
    definition of class that's under discussion in this comparison; the
    individuals are not being directly compared.

    As far as Roseanne Barr is concerned, maybe we can start discussing
    "class" when she gets rid of that gum...

>    Comparing Roseanne Barr to Atilla the Hun is way out of the ballpark.

 If a certain behavior denotes "class" in Roseanne Barr, the same behavior would
denote "class" in Attila the Hun. Since it can be argued pretty successfully
that Attila was not a particularly classy guy, and since the behavior you 
mentioned is common to both, the logical conclusion is that that behavior does
not constitute class in RB or anyone else.

 The Doctah

ps- Thanks for the support, Paul.

    In my opinion, I HATE TATTOOES!
    
    I got one 3 years ago and never in my life have a hated anything
    as much as I hate this.  I have 7 scars on my body that I can handle
    more that this one tattoo.
    
    Most of the men that have seen it agree with me.  I think they are
    wicked tacky!!
    
    living to regret it!!

    
    	RE: .87
    
    	Okay, so you HATE ***YOUR*** TATTOO. And even most of the men
    	you know agree with you about it. That doesn't make ALL of
    	them tacky because you choose one that didn't look right
    	on you or was poorly done. Most of the people (both men
    	AND women) that have seen one of the two I have have loved
    	it!! (BTW, Not very many people know I have more than one)
    
    	G_B

    Hahaha... gee wiz, If Im gonna keep on replying to this note, I
    might as well sign in or something! *8^)
    
    You people are too funny... 
    I have tattoos... and I dont like them
    I love my tattoos, you should get them...
    
    rosanne bar is a cow
    
    Lordy lordy people! *8^D
    Take a valium or something.
    
    If ya dont like your tattoo, get it removed, and why did ya get
    it in the first place! Sheesh!
    
    I have three, and I picked them carefully, and I just found the
    one that I am going to have placed on my let very soon, as soon
    as I find the right person to do it.
    
    One of mine is a combination pegusis/unicorn, and its rather large,
    on my right shoulder blade, on the other side I have a set of harley
    wings, and on my left boob is a heart with ribbon that an ole beau
    drew up for me, and has my oldest daughters name on it. The fourth
    is going to me yet another custom one that the same ole beau drew
    of a rose/fern/youngest daughters name...
    
    There is nothing tacky about tattoos on anyone, and if you find
    it tacky, than it is obviously your OWN taste thats producing  the
    problem, not the person with the ART on.
    
    Mar
    
    ps my oldest calls my unicorn/pegusis one, my little poney!
    *8^)

I think tattoos can be very nice, when well-done.  I think a lot of
people get them done by amatuers or any old hole-in-the-wall place,
and I think that is a mistake.  After all, you are going to be carrying
this thing around with you for the rest of your life!  Choose the
design and place carefully, and get it done by someone who knows what
they are doing.

I haven't gotten one yet - I am still deciding where and what. I have
some ideas...

For those who think tattoos are really ugly on women, I have a picture
of a beautiful woman with a*gorgeous* tattoo - it is what changed my
mind (and the mind of some people I have shown it to.)  Also take a
look at a book called Modern Primitives, about body modification,
in particular about tattoos.

And btw, if anyone is interested, I am on a tattooing/BodMod mailing
list - if you want to join, let me know, I'll put you in touch.

D!

    Good grief people. This conference has been really made uptight by
    the Recent Activities of Ping Pong Persuasion. 
    
    This note is actually titled "your opinion". If someone says "tattoos
    s*ck" or if someone says"tattoos are great! Changed my life for the
    better!" we kinda need to take it with equanimity. If someone asks
    your opinion, go for it. Give it to 'em. But let's not *argue* about
    it!
    
    We've got enough opinion-offering when it's NOT asked for, to ignore
    the real live request for your opinion- good or bad! LEt's not argue
    with each other - let's just give opinions! That's what this note's
    for. Nothing personal - just opinions.
    
    *sigh*
    
    --DE
    

    um, Dawn
    
    in re .91
    
    if you go back to the base note you'll find it was put in almost 2
    years ago by a woman trying to decide if she should get a tattoo -
    hence the 'opinion' in the title.
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

    RE:.94
    
    So we're....what...making it into a new note? Ignoring the title?
    Creating yet another reason to duke it out in womannotes? Finding
    excuses to take replies here personally instead of as opinions
    of tattoos and not criticisms of people?
    
    My god. This is unreal.
    
    

    would you like me to change the title?
    
    I didn't see this note as 'duking' anything out..
    
    puzzled
    
    Bonnie

    from a read-only, non-introduced person.......
    
    re 211.92  i laughed so hard, i almost fell off my chair!   the
    	       guy in the office next to me came in to make sure i
    	       was okay.   thanks for making my afternoon!
    
    carol

    RE;.96
    
    Oh. OK. Maybe I've gotten paranoid....jsut seemed to me that folks
    were starting to get into personal remarks/sensitivities (i.e, seeing
    comments more personally rather than about tattoos)....
    
    Could we keep the focus on opinions about tattoos? I'm really tired
    of notes that degenerate into "you called me X, you Y you"...
    
    Sighing heavily...
    
    --DE
    

    sure Dawn
    
    I just went back and read the recent notes in this string and didn't
    see what you reacted to..
    
    maybe I'm dense.
    
    Bonnie

I have a tattoo.  A traditionally masculine symbol.

It is of a butterfly, a traditionally feminine symbol.

I had it done when I was recovering from a divorce.  It
represented for me new life; a metamorphosis.

Personally, I find most women who have a tattoo absolutely fascinating.

However, I also find most women who have no tattoo absolutely fascinating.

:)
Richard