Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Kansas City isn't the social hub of DEC either, but I just
    met about a half-dozen DECcies at the World Science Fiction
    Convention, including one WomanNoter.  Everyone's personality
    was about what I expected, although most personalities seemed
    much richer talking in person rather than electronically--
    probably non-verbal cues and such.  Only one person looked
    about like I expected, but that's because I already knew she
    had straight blond hair, whereas I had very little image of
    the rest.

    -- Linda

    re: .0
    
    Brifely, I've found a real mix of people. For example, one of the women
    I thought was a "real strong' feminist, moved 30 miles to be closer to
    her boy friends. 
    
    Another, whom I thought was woman; in real life is a man.
    
    For another, some who are very outspoken in notes; in real life are
    very quiet, shy, and reserved. 
    
    GENERALLY, the moderators seem to be in real life the way they are in
    notes. But, any generalization is going to be false in some cases, and
    in others .. well, that's the problem with generalizations (in
    general). 
    
    One of the few quotes I can remember from college, was pasted in the
    front of our physics book "Beware of all generalizations, including
    this one" ... Sir Francis Bacon. 

    One of the more glaring differences is if you form an opinion, lets
    say in June 1987 anout some noter, and then don't meeet them until,
    lets say May 1988 ... they may have changed in some way. 
    
    There are a few bigots who maintain that noone can change their basic
    personality. That is because they view the world as an absolute
    extension of their own shallow world. This, too, is a dangerous
    generalization, and should be taken in its narrow context. 
    
    For if true, the whole theory of curative phsychology and 'born again'
    religious doctrines would fall flat on their faces, instead of
    providing hope and the hope for hope in the future. 
    
    Bob

    There have been several noters that I have found to be quite open
    on the net, flirtatious, and have no trouble speaking their mind,
    BUT, when you meet them, they can't say two words together...
    
    Others are so quiet on the net, and you meet them and can't wait
    for them to take a breath!...
    
    My main problem seems to be that I *expect* a person to *look* a
    certain way, and when they don't, I get disappointed..... nothing
    they had done, but my own perceptions....
    

    Just my 2 cents worth...

    Eagles, you are every bit as nice in person as you are in notes,
    and at least in person you don't disappear (like your notes
    are want to do! :-) )
    
    Bonnie

    How did my answer to note .5 get to be ahead of it :-) sigh

    re: .02
    
    The dictionary I have defines a feminism as 'advocacy of the political,
    social and economic equality of men and women'. Why is moving closer
    to a boyfriend contradictory to being a feminist? Feminists don't
    hate men just because they are men (I hope). I consider myself a
    feminist, and I like men, except for those who do not advocate the
    political, social and economic equality of women. If the boyfriend
    provides enough of whatever she needs, making the relationship
    logisticly easier to handle doesn't make her unfeminist.
    
    pw
     

    
    	This discussion has been around. To me, the most obvious reason
    why there might be a difference between one's apparent 'noting
    personality' and their "real time" personality is due to just that
    - noting is out of real time.
    
    	I could take, say, 4 hours to complete a 100 line reply to some
    issue raised in a notes conference. Making sure every word and it's
    associated context is exactly the way I want it. Making sure that
    the *presentation* comes across exactly the way I want it. Often,
    I find my initial phrasing of an idea is nothing like what finally
    gets "entered" or whatever - Still, sometimes, I find myself wishing
    I had said something differently. I hardly *ever* just "write whatever
    I happen to feel" as from experience and from what I've seen, I
    know that this practice is, er, dangerous. I can make 10 passes thru
    something from top to bottom before I hit ^Z...
    
    	In conversation, if I took 4 hours to reply to an inquiry, and
    made 10 passes through what I was going to say, the person asking
    would likely have walked away long before I answered. I wouldnt have 
    an "infinite" amount of time to compose my reply, making sure all my 
    words and their associated contexts were exactly the way I wanted it. 
    In other words, the chance of me saying something "stupid" - or saying 
    nothing at all for fear of saying something "stupid" - is much greater 
    in real time. 
    
    	By this fact alone, I'd expect to see marked differences in
    the way people "sound" in a real time conversation, vs reading their
    material in a notes conference.
    
    	Joe Jas
                                    

re: < Note 164.4 by WMOIS::B_REINKE "As true as water, as true as light" >

>    Eagles, you are every bit as nice in person as you are in notes,
>    and at least in person you don't disappear (like your notes
>    are want to do! :-) )

I don't know about that Bonnie, I've known Eagle to disappear in person
more than once...don't ever turn your back or he'll fly away :-).

As for me, I gave up long ago trying to judge people by their noterdom.
I've grossly mis-judged a few people, some to my delight and some to my
dismay. I don't even think about trying to figure out what they look like,
they never look like you picture them.

Jenna (as quiet in real life as I am in notes)

       To me, one of the big advantage of notes is that you can be one
       of your alternate personalities. I am the person I seem in notes
       and then again there are other parts of my personality you don't
       see. They are all me, I just choose when to present them and to
       whom. (I talk a lot in notes and out :*))

       I met a few of you at IDECUS one year and really enjoyed it. One
       of these days I'm going to get a business trip when there is a
       noters party. Sometimes I feel left out when the "back east"
       crowd all seems to know each other so well. I'm jealous.

       The one thing that always seems to catch me by surprize are the
       read only noters. I start to feel like close friends with the
       folks I "talk to" in notes and say things I wouldn't normally
       announce to the general public, then I realise there are "others"
       out there and I wonder if I should reveal less about myself.

       liesl

    I smell better in person.
    
    S.
    

    Notes allows me to develop aspects of myself that would atrophy
    in real life for lack of others to communicate with.
    
    I generally reply quickly, write base notes with great care.
    (Most of my 'published' work is in TESLA8::OBJECTIVISM)
    
    I'm definitely louder and more physical in person. Unless
    among strangers. 

I left V1 because I couldn't take my own anger, and I wasn't into pissing off
people I didn't even know (and might work with someday). I came back to V2
'cause I started meeting women at the WITCH lectures, which led to other
meetings, etc.

I found the women noters I met at such gatherings much more willing to share,
to take chances, to explore, and to bond, in person. I chalk some of that up to
the media, and some of that up to the context.
	Mez

    I'm smaller and quieter in person (unless you get to know me well,
    and then you discover that I can be as loud in person as I am in
    notes!)
    
    I said smaller because when Eagle first met me he said he expected
    me to be two feet taller :-).  I also don't happen to have short
    hair or glasses, which is what someone else said they expected :-)
    
    I always find it interesting when I meet somebody whom I really
    disagree with in notes and find out that in person they are pleasant
    and personable, and I like them even tho we don't agree on much.
    
    Notes sometimes don't seem to have much to do with what you'll think of a
    person in real life.
    
    Lorna
    
    

    Some people are the same in real life as they are in Notes. Others
    are very different. I'm both. :-) It depends on which conference
    you know me from.
    
    At the one WOMANNOTES party I made it too I thought many people
    were more friendly then they appeared in notes. Others appeared
    about the same. An other thing to consider is that parties are just
    artificial (often) as Notes conferences are. People often have
    party personalities that bare little relationship to their 'real'
    personality.
    
    I find that the longer I know someone the more their Notes, party
    and 'real' personality, in terms of my perceptions, merge. When
    I first met one of the moderators of this conference I though her
    very different from her noting. Now I don't think so at all. I doubt
    that either her notes or her personality have changed all that much
    but my understanding and perceptions have.
    
    To make things easier on my self, and because I really want to like
    everyone, I have decided to assume that everyone is friendlier in
    real life then they are in Notes until they prove otherwise.

    			Alfred

    PS: I'm more friendly in person but I'll also *alot* more shy so
    you may not notice me.

    I'm me all the time.  I put a lot of thought into the notes I post
    (well, most of the time).  Although when I'm in person I'm off the
    cuff, I still try to be considerate.  No lies, no sham, just me,
    pure and simple.  (Did I just say I was pure and simple? oh my ;)
    
    I've never been told I look different from what people thought I
    looked like, but I'd be curious what they thought I looked like
    before they met me.
    
    -Jody
    
    

        Being a west coast noter I have mixed feelings about missing
    out on the noters parties.  I'd enjoy meeting many of the people
    in this file, but I'm a party vegetable.  I don't function very
    well in a social situation where most of the people are unknown
    to me.  I tend to clam up and monopolize the time of the people
    that I know, or find a place to sit back and observe the party.
    
        I would function best at noters dinner where everyone has
    randomly been assigned to a table of about 4 to 8 people and we
    sit down for a couple of hours to eat and socialize.
    
        I've only met a couple of noters that I've known and appearance
    was different than I expected, but it was nice to add depth to the
    image I had.
    
    ASP

	Actually I am a bit complex so part of me is imaginary
	and part is real :-).

    re:  .18 (ASP)
    
    Oh, me too! Even tho I'm here in NH, I usually feel
    uncomfortable at a party where I don't know anyone.
    A throwback to my more self-concious years (which I'm stll
    trying to overcome). I, too am not one of the extrovert
    talkers unless I know people real well. You see, in "real life"
    my brain works faster than my mouth...in noting I can edit!
    
    pat
    

    Well, I'll cough up my story.
    
    Back when Soapbox was SOAPBOX, and not just a collection of political
    arguments (remember the "You're a jerk" note?), I happened to bump
    into an individual, who will only be named as far as "UOB".
    
    This lady had a habit of popping up in posted notes, adding juicy,
    tantalizing, often downright lewd replies that mentioned things
    with really arcane references.
    
    I followed up on one of those one time by sending her mail, and
    little by little, the "picture" was developed of what I expected
    her to look like...
    
    Then one day, I mailed her a message, saying I was going to be at
    her facility, and wanted to see what she looked like...
    
    Imagine me, mouth agape, eyes agog...  I recovered quickly, I think,
    and we got into a conversation, which soon revealed the side of
    her that I knew from her Noting...
    
    Same lady also introduced me to Bonnie R., our moderator, who was also
    much different than I expected...
    
    Moral:  "A thousand words does not do justice to the picture."
    
    I never heard from either of them what I was supposed to look like...
    
    Happily Noting, but wants to meet all of you,
    Bill
    
    P.S.  Bonnie, you were supposed to be about 5'8", kind of
    schoolmarmish, glasses (probably the only thing I got right), prim
    smile, with straight hair and bangs.
    
    P.P.S.  I like what we "got" better.  :^)  The image of you is now
    superimposed on your notes, I notice.  Mind's eye type of thing.
    There's a few I'd like to meet...

    <---- -1
    so what *was* Gina supposed to look like? :-)
    
    Gina's_adopted_daughter

    Mike, you left out Chopsticks just to the left of Maynard!
    
    and Bill Millois :-)
    
    I'm glad I'm not schoolmarmish, tho after all I was a teacher
    for 12 years!
    
    and I thought you were *much* older....:-), and was surprised
    to find you one of my son's contemporaries! ;-)
    
    and Gale,
    
    as you well know, anyone who had been allowed to be a friend of
    Gina's has promised her not to let anyone know about the real
    person behind the UOB.
    
    Bonnie
    
    

    I think that my real personality matches what you see in NOTES,
    but my NOTES side tends to be more serious - most of the time.
    
    As for looks - everyone tells me that I look nothing like what they
    expect me to look like.  I've given up trying to deduce appearances
    from noting style - it just doesn't work.
    
    				Steve

    Of course, another thing to consider is that some people may
    be more argumentative in Notes and more demure in person
    because in Notes, the worst that can happen in general is
    getting a scathing reply or mail message. In person, well...
    let's say that some Notes, if they were said in person, might
    get that Noter a punch in the nose. :-)
    
    As for images of people, I tend to create images based on the
    name more than anything else, in accordance with people I've
    known in the past with the same name. Since Jody brought it up,
    I'll use her as an example. I expected her to look very petite,
    because the only other Jody I've ever known (a peer in public
    school) was petite. Of course, with more common names, like
    Steve, I know so many that this system doesn't work.
    
    Other than the name connection, I never really come up with
    mental images of people. On the other hand, even when I don't
    have a specific mental image, I may often think when meeting
    someone for the first time that they don't look like I thought
    they would. I don't know why, so I can't really explain it.
    It's an intuitive kind of thing.
    
    --- jerry

    Well, other noters may not _look_ like they write, but _I_ look
    eggzactly like I write (though I understand I'm not quite so tall
    in person).

    Gee, Lee, I must have missed the dragon flames coming from
    your mouth...
    
    --- jerry

    I used to keep a list of what people expected me to look like. 
    I have never been what people expect... heh heh heh :-)  RE: Steve's
    reply - funny, I got the impression from your notes that you'd be
    tall, blonde and studious looking... after meeting you in person,
    I was impressed with how much of a sweetheart you are too! 
    
    I hope I come across the same in notes as I do in person... sorry,
    no lady of mystery here... :-)

    
    I'm the same irreverent jerk on screen as off...

    I think for the most part I look and act off screen as I do on screen.
    
    As with Lee T, I expected her to be alot taller.  And with BONNIE
    R.  I guess she acts off screen as she does on but doesn't look
    like she writes...In my opinion of course.  And as for the UOB....
    oh well can't tell :^) :^)
    
    Tanya

    And I, the UOB, am the nastiest old broad alive......and the
    ugliest......and the meanest old bitch this side of the Mississippi!
    
    
    
    				Gina UOB (Bliudnikas) Gagnon
    

        Ummm, Gina - that's _either_ side of the Mississippi....
        
        &y
        

    Re .26:
    
   
    Jody, I didn't expect you to look like the only other Jody I know!
    Although very good-looking, my brother Jody is 6'2", has a mustache,
    receding hairline...                                              
    
    -Tracy
    

    I am for real, but everyone else is a figment of my Imagination!
    
    The pictures that we carry of people whom we have not met are often
    as we wish them to be.  
    
    Bonnie, since I have not met you yet, I will give you my picture
    of you.  I see a devoted wife and mother, Since I "know your hair
    color from a note" I will say I see you as medium height 5'4"-
    5'6", shall I say nice figure and easy on the eyes.  Lots of 
    Laughter, but also a serious side that is Dominate.. You have
    to work more to be lighthearted, and you do so very well.
    I see other things, but I will save most of them for whenever
    I do see you.
    
    Dave

    i am not for real
    
    as anybody who works with me could tell you
    
    i am deadly serious when i say seriousness is deadly
    
    in person i won't even say
    
    

    Read a lot more then write.
    
    When noting or in person I believe in saying what is on my mind
    without a lot of Fluff.
    
    I'm completely honest, and if something bothers me, I'll do something
    about it.
    
    I treat forming opinions about the same as listening to your favorite
    Disk Jockey, and then meeting s/he in person.  
    
    Cal.
    

    	I'm pretty much amazed at how many people I can pick out from
    their self-descriptions in Notes.  I picked out Jody at the first
    =wn= party I dared attend, and I picked out Lee T and Lorna at other
    gatherings.  I also picked out Bonnie.  I work in the same building
    as the Eagle and wasn't too surprised when I finally met him.
    
    	I still pretty much attend only those gatherings in which I feel 
    like there's some sense of community in the conference.  I found that
    many of the womennoters weren't quite as dragon-like in person as
    they were in print, and meeting some of them has definitely helped
    me to "read between the lines" and see some of what's behind the
    words.
    
    						--D

	 Just thought I would revive this note...I wanted to see how
	 *I* would answer this question...

	 hum...I was told that I come across "authoritative" in my
	 notes... seeming like what I say is what is "right"...but
	 that's not what I mean it to be at all...I guess its the
	 style of writing...

	 In real life?  To talk to me in real life you would see that
	 I am just trying to "learn and understand" everyone else's
	 views and contrast them to my own..

	 Look like?  I was asked the other day by a noter in another
	 conference if I was about 35 yrs old...they were
	 needless to say, shocked when I said 23.  To see me after
	 reading my notes (with this is the first one in this
	 conference) you would probably say what most say when they
	 see me..."but you look like a dizzy blonde!"

	 I guess you would have to get to know all sides of me to see
	 the real me!  :-)

	 kathy (who_had_better_go_sign_in_now_that_I've_replied_here)

        Some of us in the FRIENDS conference have worked together to
    make a FRIENDS "family album".  We've submited pictures to be put
    in the album and it's starting to travel around back east.  It will
    eventually go around the world.
    
        We started it to allow each other to see the faces behind the
    notes.  I think that we (FRIENDS noters) know each other well enough
    so that we won't judge each other by our appearance.  I'm looking
    forward to seeing the faces behind the names.
    
    ASP