Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I was in similar discriminatory situation in a restaurant in Boston
    a couple of weeks ago. 
    
    A female friend and I had walked in without reservations and were
    seated by the door.  I was also with my sister who had a business
    lunch with someone waiting for her at the bar.  This man at the
    bar wanted to meet me (shake hands, etc.) HOWEVER the maitre d'
    had other ideas!  He RUSHED me to the table he had chosen (a crummy
    spot compared to what was available) to have me "sit down"-- I was
    just about to walk over to shake hands, when the maitre d' said 
    (loudly), "We have a nice table right here" and kind of shoo'd me 
    in the opposite direction.
    
    I was so taken aback at what he had done that it didn't occur to
    me to say, "Hey look buddy, I'll sit down when I am good and ready!"
    
    Boy, do I regret my lack of action in that situation!
    
    All I can tell you is to look upon such things as learning experiences.
    I know the next time I am in that type of situation I will definitely push
    back!
    
    
    P.S.  The food/bill wasn't worth the aggravation either!

    Re: .0
    
    It was certainly an awful situation, but how do you KNOW that you
    wouldn't have been asked to leave if you were a man?  Unless you
    have some evidence you haven't put forward, that seems like a very
    tenuous assumption, especially if you intend to base the rest of
    your arguments on it.  I'm not saying that it WASN'T the reason,
    but I could think of lots of other reasons as well (all implying
    the owner is a jerk).
    
    I'm curious as to how one woman at a table held up all other
    patrons of the restaurant, unless it was a mighty small restaurant...
    
    I've been subjected to boorish behavior too.  Once when I was 14
    I was on a trip with my mother and staying at the Sheraton Boston.
    I decided to have dinner by myself in the restaurant (not the coffee
    shop), and was seated at a table.  The Maitre'D then pointed out
    a placard on the table that indicated the desired level of tips,
    and made sure I had seen it.  (Did they have that at all the tables?)
    I figured that he had done this because I was a teenager, though
    I can't prove it, of course.  I was insulted - just as you were.
    
    				Steve

    In re .0 I don't see that your being asked to leave is
    sexist. If you had been sitting at the table for over an
    hour and their was a crowd waiting the restaurant owner
    had a right to ask you to leave. They make their money on
    the number of times a table turns over. By holding up a table
    by your self for that long a period of time at breakfast you
    could cost them one or two turn overs of that table.
    
    Bonnie

    On the bright side, I was once in a potentially inflammatory situation,
    but found that courtesy solved the problem.
    
    I was on a business trip and decided to treat myself to a dinner
    _alone_ in a nice restaurant.  I made reservations and arrived on
    time.  The hostess showed me to a table that was practically at
    the cook's elbow, and when I saw where we were heading, I stopped
    her and said "No, I'm afraid this table isn't suitable.  Perhaps
    you have one which is more quiet?"  She was rather flustered and
    tried to give me a line about being a busy night, etc.  I didn't
    say a thing...just followed her back to the hostess station, where
    lo and behold, they found me a very nice table.  I thanked her nicely
    for her help and proceeded to have quite a nice meal.
    
    Perhaps this was effective because she expected me to either accept
    the lousy table or cause a scene!  Since I acted civilized, she
    replied in kind.  I could also have left the restaurant and taken
    my business elsewhere too.
    
    Hope this helps in future situations
    
    Judi
    

    
    re: .0
    
    I have to agree with Bonnie.  
    
    There mere fact that the owner was a man has very little to do with
    it.  If it were my restaurant, I would have asked to you leave just
    as he did.
    
    Beckie

    I agree the treatment you received was inexcusable.  But I have been in
    a restaurant with a large group of people, men and women, and had the
    same thing happen to the group.  I don't believe such actions are
    necessarily sexist.  Our response was to leave quietly and never, NEVER
    patronize that place again.  We also all told as many people as we
    could, to spread the word and hopefully cost the establishment more
    business than just ours.
    
    							Pat 

    in re .6
    
    Why do you think that paying for a meal means that you can use
    the table indefinitely while there are people waiting for a seat?
    I can see this if you are talking a bout dinner at a fancy restaurant
    where you are paying a good price for a meal. But to hold an entire
    table up for an extended period of time at breakfast is essentially
    to take money out of the pocket of the owner, plus, to make a lot
    of hungry people wait on your convenience.
   
    Bonnie

    It depends  on  the  type  of  restaurant. Inexpensive places make
    money  by  turning  tables over quickly. At restaurants like that,
    it's  not  reasonable  to  expect to buy some food and stay for an
    extended  period  (and  an  hour  is  a  long  breakfast  by  most
    standards.)  I've seen a sign at a fast food place limiting people
    to  15  min.  at a table. On the other hand there are coffee shops
    that  cater  to  people  who  want to shmooze all night. They have
    prices  that are very high as you're paying more for rent than you
    are  for  the  food.  The  latter  is  a  European style, the fast
    turnover in coffee shops is the norm in the U.S.

--David

RE: .7
    
    Bonnie, when it happened to me I was with a large group of Digital
    people in a Japanese restaurant similar to Beni-Hana's (sp?).  Within 5
    minutes after the last person swallowed the last bite of food, we were
    asked to settle the check and leave to make room for the next group.
    We weren't offered a glass of saki, or coffee, or a mint.  The
    management's attitude was "We've got your money now so you're no good
    to us anymore." 

    As far as my comment that the behavior in .0 was inexcusable, you must
    remember that many of us don't necessarily consider the meal over when
    the last bite is taken.  I for one do not eat to live; I live to eat.
    Meals are to be taken slowly and savored.  Food is one of the greatest
    pleasures we get to enjoy on this earth.  And when the food is eaten,
    the cup of coffee afterward is just as much a part of my meal as the
    meat and potatoes were. At breakfast that lingering cup of coffee is
    accompanied by a newspaper if I'm alone, or by conversation if I'm with
    someone.  Either way it's very much a part of my meal.  And having my
    meal interrupted by the restaurant management so they can collect a few
    more bucks is, to me, inexcusable behavior. 
    
RE: .10    
    
  > I've seen a sign at a fast food place limiting people to  15  min.  at
  > a table. 
    
    I am a very slow eater; have been all my life.  I am literally not
    capable of eating a Big Mac and order of fries in 15 minutes.  I
    couldn't do it if I wanted to, which I don't.
    
    But the example you cited was OK ... as long as a sign is posted so I
    know in advance, I can just avoid the place.  If a restaurant is going
    to limit the time I have for my meal, then I should be told in advance
    so I can make an informed decision as to whether I choose to give them
    my business. 
    
    							Pat

    I think it is tacky to ask a customer who has paid for a meal to
    leave before finishing that meal.  (She was still drinking her coffee.)
    I suspect you were asked because the waitress was your friend. 
    I'm sure he didn't consider that, however, when totalling the bill...
    
    -Tracy
    

    While I agree that the owner probably thought that .0 was distracting
    the her waitress friend (whether true or not), I have to agree that
    if she were a man I think he would have waited longer and thought
    about it more, and perhaps been more courteous about saying it.
     I have no concrete evidence, but my general observations in life
    have been that unescorted females do not always get the same degree
    of courtesy shown them as do couples or men alone.  I have had
    discussions on this subject with my boyfriend.  He was appalled
    at the way I have been treated in some situations.  As a matter
    of fact, when I was telling him some of this, I wasn't even thinking
    in terms of sexism.  But, he pointed out that nobody has ever dared
    been so rude to him - a 6'2", 210 lb. male, - as they have to me
    - a 5'1", 95 lb. woman.  
    
    I've tried eating alone in even semi-nice places a few times and
    it just isn't worth it.  I'd rather stick to fast food places when
    I'm alone.  I even notice the difference in the way I'm treated
    when I have my teenage daughter with me, as tho the mere fact that
    I seem to be a mother accords me more respect in public.  When I've
    tried to eat in a better than fast food place alone I've been ignored
    while waiting to be seated and had to speak up and remind the hostess
    that I was next, I've waited ages to give my order, I've had the
    waitress be rude, I've had other customers gawk at me as though
    I had 2 heads, I've had the waitress never come back to ask if I
    need another drink, dessert, etc, and I've had to call her to get
    my bill.  My boyfriend has never had anything like this happen to
    him.  Apparently a 6'2" male alone commands more respect in our
    society than a 5'1" woman.
    
    Lorna
    

    I too must disagree with Bonnie - I think the owner's actions were
    inexcuseable, given the information we have.
    
    Only once was I ever asked to finish my meal sooner than I might
    have otherwise, and that was an interesting special circumstance.
    I and my companion had been given a private dining room, that
    apparently had been constructed at the specific request of a wealthy
    patron, who had funded it.  They were not expecting the patron that
    evening, so they gave us the (very nice indeed!) room.  However,
    he showed up and wanted his room.  The management was very nice
    about it, insisted that they would NOT force us to leave before
    we were ready, but if we didn't mind they would like to present
    the check now (we were almost done anyway) and, by the way, here's
    a free bottle of wine for us to take home.  If it need be done,
    THAT'S the way to do it....
    
    					Steve

    re:0
    Not meaning to cause trouble, but maybe it wasn't the owner,
    but your friend who was asking you to leave. She was loosing tips by you
    sitting there drinking coffee.

    Most waitresses make an hourly wage of $2.10 (in colorado anyway)
    If I had someone sitting at my section for over an hour, and there
    were a bunch of people waiting to be seated, I would ask my friend
    to please move to a counter or maybe leave so that I could at least
    afford to pay the babysitter.  pure economics.
    
    vivian

    Must agree with the base-note author and Lorna: if _you_ think it
    happened because you were female and you would not have been treated
    that way if you had been male, that is likely to be true.
    
    All protests of "oh your sex makes no difference, it gets done to
    men too" mean is that the person saying them has said them.  I'd
    prefer to actually SEE that person treat a man that way before
    believing his protestations.  Sorta like, "oh I think it's wonderful
    for a woman to work outside the home" coming from a man whose wife
    (and whose friends' wives) does not; little hard to believe.
    
    Lee

    Re: .18 (Lee)
    
    I think you are misinterpreting as protestations what are more
    an attempt to probe the basis of the statement that the incident
    would not have occurred to a man.  Are we not allowed to be
    skeptical, especially when no evidence has been presented that the
    discrimination was on the basis of sex?  The suggestion of a financial
    motive is far more compelling to me.  Why must every bad thing that
    happens to a woman HAVE to be because she is a woman? 
    
    					Steve

    I agree that the owner was rude in asking you to leave. I was
    writing both from the point of view of having been a waitress, 
    where those tips were an important part of my salary, and from
    the point of view of being a hungry customer who had to wait and
    wait while people read their paper and dawdled over coffee.
    
    I also have trouble eating quickly, I sometimes get allergic reactions
    that cause me to choke on liquids so I tend to sip them. What I
    usually do, if I realize that it is going to take me a while to
    finish is to ask the waitress if I am holding anybody up or something
    similar. Especially if the tables are all full and people are waiting.
    
    Bonnie

    Thanks for all the excellent responses!
    
    I knew this would be a pretty hot issue, because I've heard
    plenty of discussions about this type of situation before.
    
    I think .13 really summed up what I was trying to say.
    
    I guess another reason why I think this situation was sexist
    is because the owner was a large brute who accosted me the
    moment I walked in the door.  Maybe it's just my problem, but
    I get very nervous around loud, boorish people.  Perhaps I shouldn't
    have told him the waitress was my friend.  I think it would have
    prevented this situation from happening.
    
    Regarding the responses about the waitress spending too much time
    with me instead of her customers, she barely spent any time with
    me.  I really mean that sincerely.  I even brought a magazine with
    me, because I knew how busy she would be.
    
    Also, I was just about to leave when she told what the owner had
    said.  I'm certainly not the type of person that uses a restaurant
    as a rest stop.
    
    As far how much money the waitress makes, she pulls in $500.00/week
    (more than me!) working at this place, so I don't think she's
    hurting economically!  (BTW, she earns enough to live in Ogunquit
    on the Marginal Way (very exclusive area)!)
    
    One other thing, I paid $10.00 for my breakfast, so I wouldn't
    exactly call this place a "coffee shop".  It's a pretty exclusive
    inn, with a fabulous cook and great food.  I really believe that
    if I paid that much, I was entitled to the seat for as long as I
    wanted it (within a reasonable time, and I believe one hour is
    reasonable!).
    
    Steve, if you were the owner and faced with throwing out a woman
    that was 5' 7" or a man that was 6' 2", which one would you pick?
    
    Thanks again for all the responses.

    This is what I think happened.  I think the owner was annoyed that
    a waitress had a friend stay in the restaurant for such a long time,
    mostly to visit, even though she ate, too.  I think that one of
    the reasons that he got so upset is that in the back of his mind
    was the idea that a waitress is not an important enough person to
    have a friend sit and hold up a table for so long.  I think he was
    thinking she's only a waitress, she's here to work, what makes her
    think she's important enough to have a friend visit her and hold
    up a table.  I think if it were his friend or the friend of someone
    he respected for some reason (like a man with money) he wouldn't
    have minded.  I think that if the friend had been a man, especially
    a well-dressed, tall, man, that even tho he might have resented
    it, he wouldn't have dared ask the man to leave.  I think that because
    the friend was a woman he wasn't afraid to ask her to leave.  Thus
    we have both class discrimination (the waitress wasn't important
    enough to have a friend visit during work) and sexism.  I can't
    prove any of this but nobody else can prove different.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    re: .21
    
    
    I see nothing in your base note that describes the owner of this
    inn as 'having accosted you'.  Had you told the full story, I would
    not have been so quick to disagree with you that this was sexist.
    
    I do think the proper thing for the owner to have done is speak
    to you directly, not through your friend.  And, perhaps ask if you
    would mind moving to a smaller table to accommodate his larger party.
    
    Beckie

    RE: .23
    
    Funny you should say that about sitting at a smaller table.
    
    The first thing I did when I entered the restaurant was to
    look for a smaller table.  Unfortunately, the smallest table
    seated four.  I was very disappointed, because I thought this
    could be a potential problem.
    
    As an aside, I just remembered that this same friend and I (with
    another friend) ate at this restaurant last summer.  We stayed there
    FOR OVER AN HOUR eating our breakfast.  No one threw us out that
    time, so was it really fair to throw me out because I was alone?
    
    I also feel that the restaurant should have tables for two, but
    I get the feeling the owner is SUPER GREEDY (my friend agreed with
    this), and he wants that money rolling in!
    
    
    

    Re: .21
    
>    Steve, if you were the owner and faced with throwing out a woman
>    that was 5' 7" or a man that was 6' 2", which one would you pick?

    What would I do?  In this situation, I wouldn't throw either of
    them out - it's bad for business!  If there were a customer that
    was definitely causing trouble, say by being abusive to other
    customers, I would not hesitate to take action against them, no
    matter what their sex or size.  If I thought I could not handle
    the problem by myself, I would obtain assistance.  In no way do
    I think a woman is necessarily "easier to throw out" than a man.
    
    But none of this is relevant to your case.
    
    				Steve

    
    As an ex resturant manager, I don't see anything wrong with the
    way he handled the situation. In the resturants I managed, employees
    were not allowed to visit with friends/family, and if it was noticed,
    the table of guests was given to another waitress. This elimates
    the prefered treatment syndrome. There is nothing worse the waiting
    for service and seeing the waitress wasting time talking to a friend.
    Also any business in Maine has a short active season, and any
    interuptions in service means less money, which is why they are
    in business. Some of those people waiting, won't come back, and
    won't recomend the resturant to others. Just imagine if every one
    of the waitresses had a friend in for an hour or so on a Saturday
    morning, now we have 8 or 10 tables of one, sipping coffee and smiling
    sweetly as her friend waltzed by.
    	Don't feel as if it's a personal attack towards you, just remember
    that one of the things that make a resturant survive is fast service
    and attentive waitresses.
    	By the way, if this were to have happened in one of the resturants
    I managed, there would have been no visiting, you would have been
    waited on by a stranger, and you would not have been asked to leave,
    because you wouldn't have had a reason to stay.
    						New to this notesfile
    						but will register soon
    							Jeff
    

    Hi Jeff,
    
    Just wanted to let you know (since you obviously didn't read my
    earlier note) that I DID NOT VISIT WITH MY WAITRESS FRIEND.
    
    I went to the restaurant for breakfast, nothing else.
    
    She needs the job, and as a good friend, I would NEVER jeopordize
    our friendship by creating a problem between her and her boss.
    
    Sorry to get upset, but I hate it when people don't read what
    you've already written.
    
    

    RE: .28 & .29
    
    As a former, rotten boss of mine once said, 
    
        "THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT."

    It's always nice to know that people have pleasant personalities,
    even when things don't turn out the way they'd hoped.
    
      Alan 

    in re .32
    
    We perfer that persons who enter annonymous material make them
    selves known to the moderators. Would the author of this note
    please let one of the three of us know your identity? This account
    will not accept a mail message.
    
    Thankyou
    
    Bonnie J
    comoderator
    
    

    	I kinda hoped that this would simmer down a that .0 would see
    that the possibility existed that she was NOT discriminated against
    rather she was just "put out". 
    	Being a native Mainah, I can honestly say that not many of us
    hung around the breakfast bar for an hour. Even when I take my kids
    to a place like Abdow's for a smorgesboard breakfast, we're done
    in an hour, worst case. 
    	I tried to understand what happened when you say you were accosted
    the minute you walked through the door. Maybe I missed it. If *I*
    were rudely treated upon entering an establishment, I would turn
    and leave, regardless of how hungry I was. You simply allowed
    *yourself* to be placed in the situation. By entering, *you* tested
    the owner and he allowed you to eat (apparently in peace) then wanted
    to serve other customers and asked you to go. Did you happen to
    notice if there were any customers that had been there as long as
    you or longer?? 
    	As a side note: many places in Maine have small signs that say
    "2 persons minimum to a booth". That's so they can max. profit per
    square foot. 
    	BTW  -  If the booth was 3'x4' = 12' sq. and your breakfast
    cost $10.00. That equates to <$1.00 per Sq. ft per hour and that
    does not pay rent, utilities, etc. Standard operating cost for an
    eating establishment I would estimate would be around $2-3 per person
    per square foot per hour. (Just being financial)
    
    PS - Don't go back, you'll never enjoy a meal there again.
    
    Ken

    Re .35, I can't help but wonder if she'll ever note in this file
    again, never mind go back to that restaurant.
    
    Lorna
    

    RE: .36
    
    Lorna, who knows?
    
    But if her intention in putting her basenote in here was *really*
    to get honest feedback/opinions, and she didn't like the fact that
    people were not willing to validate her already-preconceived notion,
    then that's her problem.
    
    Certainly she's entitled to her feelings - whatever they might be.
    
    What she's not entitled to, though, is her expectation that everbody
    should agree with her feelings.
    
    I guess this Note is an example of what I was alluding to, in my
    Invalidating Unhealthy Feelings topic.
    
      Alan

    
    RE.28 Thanks Marge, That is the way I saw it, I went to a resturant
    in Maine, and visited with a friend who worked there.....
    
    Anyway, my responce was based on my experience as a resturant manager,
    nothing else. I did that for about 3 years, and found I didn't want
    to do it for the rest of my life, so I moved on.  But during that
    time, I learned alot about those beings we call humans, we share
    this earth with, and from a famous space movie I'll quote " a bigger
    hive of scum and villiany you'll never find". The reason I put that
    in is as a manager, I was faced with numerous accounts of problems
    with both employees and patrons. Most of the patrons problems were
    them trying to figure out how to get free meals, and including
    everything from walking out, to putting dead flies into their own
    food and claiming it was their when they got it, and refusing to
    pay, to acting drunk, getting obnoxious, hoping to be kicked out 
    without paying. Employee problems covered the entire range too.
    So I developed a real "hard ass" approach to both employees and
    customers which has lasted to this day (that's why I choose not
    to be a manager to this day, I'd never last in easy going DEC) but
    anyway, If the customer is not a regular customer, and they are
    causing others to wait, they probably won't be back anyway, so get
    rid of them, If they are regulars, do it nice enough so they may
    return, but if the business is doing well enough to have waiting
    lines, turn around time is the key to making a living. 
    	The confrontations I had most were with men, not women, and his 
    size didn't matter, or even enter into it, he was causing me to
    loose money, because my pay was based on a percentage. Employee
    confrontations, after they understood my philosophy of you are here
    to work, so do it, lessened with time, because if a worker had
    a problem with another worker, it was their problem, not mine, if
    many had a problem with one, the one was history. The manager may
    have seemed wrong with his actions to you, but look at it from his
    view before passing judgment on him. Sexist assault on his part???
    I doubt it even entered his mind.
    							Jeff
    

    
    Re 36
    
    Well, she DID ask for some feedback.
    .0 If anyone out there can offer some feedback on this situation,
       I'd really appreciate it. Feel free to tell me if I'm acting
       like a jerk.
    
    I went to see a waitress friend of mine once. As it became crowded,
    the owner asked my friend to ask me to take my drink and sit with
    a stranger at another table. Most of the patrons were alone. All
    of the tables were full, but had only one patron at each.
    
    A party of four arrived, and the owner wanted my table. I did not
    wish to sit with a total stranger, but did so not to raise a fuss.
    
    I feel that I was chosen to move, because the owner saw that I knew
    the waitress. I know he didn't want to lose the party of four vs
    a party of one. I know he didn't pick on me because of my size - I'm
    6ft tall and weight over 200 lbs.
    
    I feel that both my case and 0s case that we were picked on because
    we knew the waitress. I feel that were both treated poorly. I feel
    that both owners put profits over an individual.
    
    I see no evidence in .0s note about discrimination as to gender,
    only that the owner cares about profit.
    
    Guy Novello
    

    
    Guy,
    	You are absolutly right, you and she were both chosen because
    you knew the waitress and hence would make less of a scene then
    a stranger, and sometimes a really weakling manager will actually ask 
    the waitress if she'd ask her friend to move or leave etc which
    causes even less disruptions.
    							Jeff

    Re .37, Alan, it isn't the fact that people disagreed with .0, that
    bothers me (and I would guess her).  It's more the *manner* that people
    disagreed with her.  I don't like to see people so pleased to jump
    all over a person and point out their mistakes with such apparent
    pleasure as a few people did here.
    
    Jeff, I am very glad that most people do not take such a hard, cold
    view of the world as you appear to.  I am glad that some people
    think there are more important things in life than making money;
    namely, being nice to people.
    
    Lorna
    

.35> PS - Don't go back, you'll never enjoy a meal there again. 
    
    Well, if it had happened to me, going back would certainly not be
    an option.  Ever again.

.38> But during that time, I learned alot about those beings we call humans,
.38> we share this earth with, and from a famous space movie I'll quote " a
.38> bigger hive of scum and villiany you'll never find". The reason I put
.38> that in is as a manager, I was faced with numerous accounts of problems
.38> with both employees and patrons. Most of the patrons problems were them
.38> trying to figure out how to get free meals, and including everything
.38> from walking out, to putting dead flies into their own food and
.38> claiming it was their when they got it, and refusing to pay, to acting
.38> drunk, getting obnoxious, hoping to be kicked out without paying. 
    
    What kind of restaurant did you manage???????
    
    I was a waitress in a medium-priced but nice restaurant in a decent
    but not ritzy part of a town in North Carolina, and never once had
    any of the above happen.  Nor did my fellow waitresses.  Nor did
    the restaurant manager.
    
    I must say I'm glad my view of the human race is something other than
    "a bigger hive of scum and villiany you'll never find".  What a
    way to view your fellow inhabitants on this small planet!!!!
    
    							Pat

    re .44, Steve, I think there's a difference between being businesslike
    and acting like a slave driver.
    
    As far as "jumping all over people" goes, I wasn't talking about
    you so whether you enjoy jumping on people or not has nothing to
    do with it.
    
    Lorna
     

    Reading through this note and it's replies, I'm reminded of
    some of the lessons I learned as a cop.  One such lesson was
    that things aren't always as they appear at first glance and
    investigation can be useful in getting to "the truth"�.  
    
    If we could all have been there and witnessed all the transactions
    we might have a better idea of how things went down.  In light
    of the fact that we weren't, perhaps it might be useful to ask
    for some clarifications before casting judgements.  
    
    For example, one might ask for a bit more detail around the "accosting"
    event.  It may have been (odds are probably *was*) just that.  But
    what one person feels is being "accosted", another might interpret
    differently.  Another possibility might be that she was requested
    to leave because she'd been there longer than anyone else and the
    line was waiting, etc.  
    
    Please note that I'm not saying (or assuming) what was or was not
    the case; from what I've read so far, my *guess* is that there
    was something snakey going on (e.g. sexism).  But without a little
    broader picture of the events, I find it hard to reach any conclusion
    yet with certainty.
    
    Steve
    
    � if there really *is* such a thing. . .

    Re: .41, .45 
    
    Lorna, I don't understand your contention that people "jumped all
    over" the author of the base note.  It seemed to me that instead
    there was a restrained and calm effort to suggest other possibilities.
    Certainly that was my intent in my own replies.
    
    			Steve

    
    re .43
    	Pat, It's not so much what type of resturant it was, but more
    a matter of where and when, which was Framingham in the early 70's
    where there were a lot of late teen/early 20 type people who were
    born with a silver spoon in their mouth and a hair across their
    a**, and they were out to push the world to it's limits. Which they
    did every Friday and Saturday night with the help of every bar and
    nightclub along route 9. I won't get into personality types here,
    but I hope you get the idea. Another of the resturants was in
    Springfield Ma, where it was financially depressed, and if they
    could get another free meal, it's was just another ride on the gravy
    train, so to speak.
    
    re .41
    Lorna, As for my view of the world and it's inhabitants, that's
    something that has taken years to form, and won't easily be changed.
    Compare the rational motives of man versus any other species inhabiting
    this planet, and form your own conclusions. Animals may kill for food,
    but they don't kill for power or greed, they don't slaughter millions
    because they don't like another animals heritage, and if things where 
    they live get bad, IE, drought, animals migrate elsewhere where they can
    survive without reguard for country borders, and who rules there.
    	After listening to the news where rape, murder, and terrorist
    activity are the norm, and nothing good is worth reporting, I don't
    feel my hard cold view of this Hell Hole is out of place at all.
    I just watch my back, so to speak, and keep a good supply of food
    and arms on hand in hopes of surviving the Big One, because afterwards
    hopefully, we'll have learned a big lesson, and do better. 
    							Jeff
    

    re : 0
    
    Well now that you have everyone's input do you really want to hear
    more?  :-)
    
    Nah, I think your worst mistake was making it known that you were
    a friend......and his mistake was having the waitress friend asking
    you to leave.  I think if he runs a restaurant he should of asked
    you to leave personally not put it on the shoulder of his employee
    to do that.  You were also a patron who paid for the meal to me
    which means that HE was responsible for asking you to leave not
    your friend.  
    
    At least you know next time not to make your friendships known at
    a restaurant and also not to go to that inn again.  I think he was
    rude.  It would of be easier for him to approach you himself and
    ask you nicely and explain the situation but obviously he was too
    rude to do so.  I feel that he shouldn't be in a people oriented business
    with that attitude.....but don't take it personally it's just a
    business and you won't bring yours to him anymore!  
    
    bobbi - :-)
    
    

    
    re:   48 
    
    Hi Jeff. Welcome to Wommannotes. Even if you are a Republican.
                     
    re:   all the rest
    
    Maybe (but I can't say for sure because I wasn't there) the base-noter
    was being thoughtless or inconsiderate by sitting around. MAYBE.
    BUT, even so, she paid the bill and she had every right to
    sit there as long as she wanted. The cost of a meal in a restaurant
    is way more than if you ate it at home. You are paying for ambiance
    and courtesy. She was denied both.                            
    
    So the manager lost a few dollars. So sorry!!! That's business!!
    Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But you don't create customer
    animosity or cut the quality of service that has already been paid
    for below the expected level.                        
    
    I bought a coat on sale from a mail order company. They screwed
    up the order and I got very furious. They very nicely offered to
    refund my money or give me the coat at an additional discount over
    the sale (very cheap) price. They probably didn't make much money
    (if any) on the coat, especially since I'd returned the first one
    at their cost. They didn't sit there worrying about
    whether I was costing them a few dollars. Needless to say, I will
    buy from them again.
    
    Bottom line: The manager was an idiot. He won't last long in the
    service business. Your friend cannot be blamed for not sticking
    up for you. Her job was at stake. However, she does owe you an apology
    as does the manager.
    
    Roberta
    
    P.S. Sorry this is so late. I just found this note.