Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Why don't you start, Jim?  ;-)

Being a man, and being that my opinion was not solicited, I hope that
I'm not offending anyone my adding the following comments...

I'm new to this notes file, but I do find it interesting that one of the 
most active participants is a male.  

The following was taken from note 1.2


   "This file is meant to serve as a forum for the discussion of topics
    that are interesting or important to women. ...

    ...While we also generally encourage and support participation by men
    in this space, this file does not exist to meet men's needs for
    education or sport. ..."
                                                   
Although I generally object to personal attacks on people in this conference, 
Maybe Jim should rethink his the level of his participation.

-SAH
    

    
    re .2
    
    I assume the references to liberal communists was an example
    only and not an generalization....

>                 -< Who is the rest of your nonNOTES person? >-
    
    You are assuming the personality is a constant.  That is far from being
    so.  For example, if I want to know how personality of a noter has
    evolved (dissolved??) over period of time, all I really have to do is
    to read some old notes from other conferences using /AUTHOR=foo. 
    
    There is amazing amount of information available in the archives of
    what we might call "conference_universe".  For example, I can read
    about some couples and how they used to show their affection for each
    other in the conferences (called notesfiles at that time).  But later
    on you could see that their beloved ones have become the most hated
    person in their life.  Why does that happen?
    
    It is sad to see some people losing their perspective and forgetting
    that what they once said about their loved ones.  Wouldn't it be nice
    if they were to read what they had written in the past?  One can learn
    lot about oneself by examining ones past behavior.  And thanks to
    simple EXTRACT command, it is so readily available, to anyone who is
    interested in studying the behavioral modification. 

    Just a look at some of the notes from 1986 in the conferences such as
    HUMAN_RELATIONS or HOLISTICS would tell you how some people's attitudes
    have changed.  Whether is for better or for worse is up to that
    individual to decide.
    
- Vikas

    Well, one side of me I try hard not to show is my bad temper. I go
    to great lengths to seem statemanlike, caring, and compassionate.
    
    I also take great care that my notes reflect correct grammar
    and spelling.  After all, most people know I'm a writer, and
    I have a reputation to uphold!
    
    --bonnie 

    
    The notes persona I project in all conferences is my 
    authentic persona.
    
    I empathize more in human relations related files, excercize
    more bluntness in the 'box, and keep to the topic in the technical
    ones. These are all different sides of the same persona.
             
    My old persona was an image; I got a payoff for injecting my
    bitterness into the forum. 
                        

    Re: .6
    
    >Why show our more sensitive or intelligent side in (for example)
    >Soapbox ??
    
    Why not?

    re .2, .6, Steve, I just think of you as a nice person who has some
    sort of disease that makes you like guns.  :-)
    
    Lorna (liberal communist/atheist/feminist) :-)
    

    re .14:
    
    "...we_ever_got_given..."
    
    aaarrrgggghhhh. how 'bout, "we were ever given"
    
    !It's just a joke!
    
    Since I've recently established myself as the local "grammarian",
    I thought I'd just be consistent.                                
    
    I'll try to be more forgiving in the future.
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    
    

I'm glad that some people had the chance to contribute meaningfully to the
topic... 

Myself, I am seen as a complainer, and a victim.  I'll accept the former, but I
won't accept the latter.  I complain because I have an opinion, and a right to
state my opinion.  I happen to think my opinions are important, and I think I
should give everyone the benefit of them. :->  I feel I am a unique person with
a unique view of life, and anyone who cares to listen will be enriched by at
least some of my thoughts.  Those who don't care to listen in the first place...
they will certainly only hear noise.  There's always NEXT UNSEEN for them, and I
wish they would use it instead of writing trash notes. 

That may sound egotistical... but I don't believe that I am any more egotistical
then any other person.  I talk more...  but I also listen more... and that wider
bandwidth is not merely egotism;  it's a hunger for life. 

I do not see myself as a victim.  One of the reasons that I do complain so much
is because I will not put up with being victimized.  I have never wanted anyone
to feel sorry for me...  I have wanted the complaint addressed and the problem
fixed.  The times that I have allowed myself of my own free will to be (what
some would consider) taken advantage of, have been because I have chosen to. 

I have not always had the outcome in relationships that I wished for, but merely
that is not being a victim, it is people being themselves instead of being what
I would have wanted them to be.  And that's ok, that's their right to run their
own lives.  I may regret what might have been, but that is not the same as
complaining about the actions of other people. 

My complaints I save for wrongs to be righted, things that need to be changed. I
may be the only one voicing the opinion that no one wants to hear, but I would
have hoped that if anybody would understand what being in that position is like
that it would be feminists, reformers, revolutionaries. 

I write a lot...  but I also read a lot...  and it is hard to see someone
reading from the other side of the screen. 

A lot of what I write is written as a "Devil's Advocate".  I write it not
because I believe in it, or think that it should be so, but because I don't know
why a thing is so, or why it is not, and I want to learn why.  I don't know if I
believe women and men are different or not, but I want to know why and how men
and women *are* different, and why and how they *are* the same. 

I think that that covers what I might be known for, and the explanation of it...

What I would like to also be known about my person is the hunger of life that
keeps me going...  wanting to learn about everything...  music and song;
skating, gymnastics and dance; reading...  I'm not really disciplined enough to
write/publish except for NOTES which is very undisciplined.  I hunger more for
what comes into my mind then a need to publish my thoughts.  The way that I
enjoy the most 'putting out' is person to person giving and receiving.

I'd like to be known as someone who enjoys playing and enjoying people's company
and spirit... but how do you communicate that in notes?  Probably the best Notes
snapshot of me would be a collection of all the mail and notes personal names
I've used here at DEC, they are a pretty well rounded bunch that collectively
delimit me well. 

I'd like to known as someone who appreciates the thoughts that the rest of you
put out, like myself, but I don't do that as well as I'd like to at feedback. I
don't like notes that are just 'attaboy's... so my appreciation of what all of
you have written doesn't always make it back to the authors.  But I do
appreciate the thought that goes into your notes, even if I disagree with you
vehemently, because you have given me an opportunity to grow.  Someone who
always agrees with you is not always your best friend; someone who challenges
you will be your help more in the long run.

James Baranski 

    re:  .16
    
    JMB, personally, I am glad you have contributed so much to this
    conference. You have led me into the "male perspective" of some
    major issues. I honestly believe you have challenged some
    of my idea patterns. Yes, at times angered, but more often
    UNDERSTANDING. If we (as females) are to grow and let our
    message be heard, sometimes we have to face some challenges.
    How else are we to grow? We cannot operate in a vacuum and
    expect our messages to be universally accepted or suddenly
    changed. There's a lot of "old baggage" that needs to be
    discussed in order for us to go on and forge ahead.
    
    In the book "Your Perfect Right" by Alberti/Emmons, there is a
    Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 19 of that
    Declaration states 'Everyone has the right to freedom of
    opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold
    opinions without interference and to seek, receive and
    impart information and ideas through any media and regardless
    of frontiers'.
    
    pat

    Well, it's real hard to say who I really am, because I change daily.
    I guess you could call me a chameleon...I have different personas
    for different situations and people.  But no, I don't change myself
    to *please*, and I am not putting on an act.  The personas are really
    *me*, but they are a particular part of me.  I guess I have too
    much personality to display it all at the same time, so I have to
    time-share!  :-)
    
    But some things about me are consistent...I am honest (and the
    occasional incidences when I am not make me feel dirty, and I try
    my best to change the situation as quickly as possible) ande loyal.
     I try to be open-minded (although, admittedly I don't always
    succeed).I love trying new things, and my motto in life is "I'll
    try anything twice"  (Yes, some of you may recognize this from another
    note I left... :-)
    
    Anyway, anyone who wants to know the "real" me (at least in my =wn=
    party persona) can look for the girl [woman?!  Not yet...] in the
    black skirt and stripped shirt tonight at the party!
    
    Diana
      !

    I know we're not supposed to point out typos and such, but...
    
>    Anyway, anyone who wants to know the "real" me (at least in my =wn=
>    party persona) can look for the girl [woman?!  Not yet...] in the
>    black skirt and stripped shirt tonight at the party!
                     ========    

    Really?

*************************************************************************

< Note 105.19 by STAR::BECK "Paul Beck | DECnet-VAX" >
                 -< I really tried to resist; I really did... >-

    I know we're not supposed to point out typos and such, but...
    
>    Anyway, anyone who wants to know the "real" me (at least in my =wn=
>    party persona) can look for the girl [woman?!  Not yet...] in the
>    black skirt and stripped shirt tonight at the party!
                     ========    

    Really?
**************************************************************************


    RE:  above

    Pat was there but she KEPT HER SHIRT ON!  I even suggested the lawn
    needed mowing!!!!   :^)   


    justme....jacqui