| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 99.1 | Flashbacks | FRAGLE::TATISTCHEFF | Lee T | Wed Aug 10 1988 13:10 | 24 |
| Yes it happens, very unexpectedly. Your honey sneaks up from behind
to surprise you with a kiss on the ear. You jump a bit, then relax,
and **BANG** all of a sudden the old sensations of everything that
happened when you were raped come rushing back. Your honey's hands
become ~those~ hands, your honey's breath smells like ~them~, you
are disoriented and utterly revolted by a perfectly normal act.
I've only had one flashback, some two years after the incident.
It was unexpected, and to this day I don't know how I kept myself
from vomiting all over the poor guy. It felt absolutely horrible,
and I fervently hope it _never_ happens again.
What do you do when you're having one? The "experts" say to disentangle
yourself physically and (if you can talk with the person) explain
that you're feeling awfully strange, that it's nothing they did,
and that you need to stop NOW. I found deep breathing with my eyes
open and my glasses on helped me get back to the "here and now".
If your lover has a flashback while you are being physically intimate,
all I can say is BACK WAAAAAAY OFF. Know that it has little or
nothing to do with you, and please don't feel threatened or insulted.
Leave her (him) be, and don't press.
lt
|
| 99.2 | Control | FRAGLE::TATISTCHEFF | Lee T | Wed Aug 10 1988 13:19 | 24 |
| After having control over your body taken away from you, one of
the main fears is that it will be taken away _again_. You may have
a need to control _everything_ about sex, maybe about the whole
relationship, if only to ensure that things don't get away or out
of hand again.
You _need_ to _know_ that if you say "no", then "no" it is. You
may even test your lover by saying "no" whether or not you want
to do anything; if s/he doesn't respond well, or is even the tiniest
bit reluctant, you either teach him/her a VERY good lesson, or get
yourself the heck AWAY (fast).
I find I need not only to control when things _don't_ happen, but
to control when they _do_, as well. On Oprah the other day, one
woman said that her reaction, her way of controlling, was to become
very promiscuous. I guess by being so promiscuous, she managed
to avoid the case where she didn't want sex but had it forced on
her. Another woman said she stayed totally celibate for a looong
time, another way to assert control over one's own body.
The men on the show mentioned how they had to deal with giving up
control so that their lovers (who were victims) could cope.
|
| 99.3 | | FRAGLE::TATISTCHEFF | Lee T | Wed Aug 10 1988 13:23 | 17 |
| Did anyone manage to get a tape of the Oprah show the other day?
She had a few victims (one of whom was a shrink) and their lovers
talking a lot about the side effects that lasted for them.
I loved one moment where a woman in the audience explained how she
managed to keep some guy from attacking her and the shrink on stage
congratulated her but also said that it is wrong to suggest that
if every woman took her tactics they would never be raped, that the
fact she had not been raped was more a function of her would-be
rapist than of the woman herself.
I didn't see the whole show and am interested in finding out what
happened in the first half of it. Also, I'd like to see a list
of references - I am entering a phase where I need to do more work
on getting over this thing and a reading list would be good.
Lee
|
| 99.4 | Support Group in September | USMRM3::JHUTCHINS | | Thu Aug 11 1988 15:30 | 12 |
| The Boston Area Rape Crisis Center will hold a fourteen-week support
group for women who have been raped. The group is geared to the
needs of women who have come through the initial crisis and are
trying to work through longer-term issues. The group will begin
in September and is free to all participants.
(From the Sojourner)
Phone # is 492-8306, in Cambridge. I tried to get info about times
and dates, but have not been able to get through yet. If anyone
has more info, please let us know!
|
| 99.5 | | QBUS::FINK | Dixieland Delight | Sat Aug 13 1988 00:30 | 30 |
|
This should be a very interesting topic. A very close friend
of mine (whom I dated before moving to Ga.), was raped several
years ago.
She doesn't talk about it much, but she has learned to accept
the fact that it did happen. What she told me was hard for
me to understand, though I try. Hers was a date-rape, and
for a long time afterward, she blamed herself for letting it
happen. Then she went to the other extreme, and was very
promiscuous for a while, even having several one night stands.
By the time we met, she was over that stage, and had pretty
much comes to terms with her feelings about it. I just thank
God that she didn't get a disease or pregnant in that time.
Anyhow, she has told me that once or twice she does have night-
mares, and wakes up screaming and in a cold sweat. She knows
that when this happens, she can call me no matter what time
it is, just to have a friendly voice to talk to. I think it
also helps when we talk about it, because I'm 500 miles away,
and therefore not a threat to her.
Usually I really don't know what to say to her. I basically
just `wing it' and try to listen more than talk. Is this
good, or should I be saying something more to her? I don't
know. Any help would be appreciated, as we are very close
friends, and I love her dearly.
-Rich
|
| 99.6 | Flashbacks and nightmares | MEWVAX::AUGUSTINE | Purple power! | Tue Aug 16 1988 12:15 | 50 |
|
This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes
to remain anonymous for now
----------------------------------------
Lee, you are right on about the flashbacks and the incredible strength
of the emotions raised.
One time I was making love, when my lover playfully held down my
shoulders and made a joking remark like "Now, you have to do whatever
I want". Instantly I was back in that awful room with the date who
had locked the door and told me I wasn't getting out until I did what
he wanted. My flesh shrank from my lover's touch. I froze. My
vagina contracted so much that it would have been very painful to
continue. I went a little berserk to free myself.
I explained to my lover that I couldn't take even playful coercion,
because it brought back painful memories of being raped. What he
seemed to have difficulty understanding was that even after we both
calmed down, I had no interest in resuming the originally scheduled
activity. He had apologized for unintentionally hurting me, and I
apologized for hitting him, and then he was still feeling sexy. The
way I was feeling at that instant was that I might never feel sexy
again.
I had a lot of nightmares after being raped. The nightmares recur
whenever I feel pressured sexually. Examples: when a man asks me
for a date and keeps asking after being turned down three or four
times. In the bad old days sexual harassment was common at offsite
meetings. Men would have a number of drinks and put their hands on
me in the bar, or follow me to my room and try to persuade me to let
them in, or call my room at midnight with an unwelcome invitation.
One man pushed into my room as I was entering and just grabbed me,
telling me he knew I really liked him and was feeling sexy.
After incidents like this, I have nightmares in which the man actually
breaks in and rapes me. I wake up screaming and can't go back to
sleep. I have had to call in sick so that I can get some rest after
a night of exhausting nightmares. In my conscious mind, I know that
some of these men are not potential rapists, but my dreaming mind is
terrified of any man who puts pressure on me for sexual attention.
I need to feel very sure that I can say NO. I am unwilling to move
quickly to a sexual relationship, probably partly as a test.
I am not sure whether I'll ever be completely "recovered". I haven't
had any flashbacks for several years. I have learned to avoid some
situations that caused flashbacks, so I don't know how I would react
today in those situations. I do still have the nightmares, a little
less intensely.
|
| 99.7 | More Resources | PRYDE::ERVIN | | Wed Aug 24 1988 14:58 | 7 |
| The Cambridge Women's Center holds the following drop-in groups:
Wednesday - 12 - 1:30 pm Battered Women's Support Group
Thursday - 7:30 - 9:30 pm Open Discussion for Incest Survivors
The Women's Center is at 46 Pleasant Street, just outside of Central
Sq.
|
| 99.8 | | HAMSTR::IRLBACHER | Another I is beginning... | Fri Feb 17 1989 09:18 | 49 |
| There are so many ways in which women react to such a traumatic
experience, it is hard to find any two cases which are identical.
I was a rape victim at 17, raped by a young man I had known for
most of my life. He physically abused and threatened me and I feel
fortunate that I was eventually released without further harm.
For me, part of the trauma of the rape was in the reaction of my
father when I tried to talk with him about what happened. I was
not able to say clearly and directly "I was raped" because somehow,
I had convinced myself that by going with this boy to the local
lovers lane, I had "been asking for what I got". So when I talked
around the issue, working up to the telling of it, I was stopped
when he bluntly stated that "decent girls don't get raped. They
never put themselves in a position like that." I internalized his
words, and believed that I was entirely to blame; had I not
"excited" him and given him the impression I was "asking for it"
it would not have happened.
(For a very long time, I adopted a tough girl stance, always one
of the boys and *never* a feminine person, one that boys would want
to date or become physical with. It was much safer that way)
Two weeks later, I left home for good, going to live in another
part of the state, a stranger on her own. To this day, I believe
my father *knew* damn well what had happened to me and chose not
to deal with it. I had scratches, several large bruises and a cut
on my chin.
My major terror for several months was being pregnant. When I finally
found that I wasn't, I *literally* forgot the rape. I blotted it
out of my mind as completely as if I had developed amnesia. And
it stayed this way until my 40s.
I joined the Nashua Rape and Assault Committee as a pr person at
the beginning of their work. Eventually I took the Victim Advocate
training----and the (*&* hit the fan! The first movie I saw--showing
a similated rape and the victim advocate process which followed--set
me off into an emotionally terrifying period.
I became in need of the services of the very group I was helping
support. It took me months to deal with the issue, and it was not
until a year afterwards that I could tell my husband of 20 odd years
about it.
To this day I cannot remember the young man's name or what he looked
like.
Marilyn
|
| 99.9 | A man's story | WMOIS::B_REINKE | If you are a dreamer, come in.. | Fri Feb 17 1989 15:42 | 55 |
| The following reply is being entered for a member of the community
that wishes to remain anonymous.
Bonnie J
comod
___________________________
Men can get raped, too. Here's my story. I've thought about entering this
publicly, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I admire the women who have
gone public about their rapes, both in Notes, and in person.
When I was about 12, two older boys physically theatened me and then took turns
assaulting me anally. This happened on 3 different occasions. I remember most
of all feeling very frightened that they were going to beat me with their bat,
and then feeling relieved when they didn't (despite the pain I did receive from
what they did do).
For years afterward I was acted somewhat subservient with others, unsure of
myself, and eager to please everybody. This made me well liked with most
adults, but I had few friends my age. I was interested in girls, but quite shy
with them.
I never told my parents, or anyone else for years. In late high school and in
college I began dating girls. I met my future wife the last year of college,
and we got married a few months after graduation. We have had, and still have,
an excellent and loving marriage that we both enjoy, and a good sex life. I
finally told my wife about these incidents after about 10 years of marriage.
It's difficult to say what effects this experience has had on me. It does not
seem to have effected me as much as these types of experiences have bothered
other victims, both men and women. Even as a teenager I never looked on this as
a sexual experience, but more of a physical intimidation or domination. I don't
know if I would have felt any different if I had, say, just been beaten up.
(Yes, I would, on reflection. I would have felt less secretive and shameful
about it.)
It has had more effect on my feelings of self worth and self being than it has
on my sex life itself. I have always had problems with self confidence, despite
a relatively successful career, and an excellent marriage and family. I've had
periods of moderate depression lasting several months, and during these times I
have run up debts or performed badly on the job. I really can't say how much of
this is really due to what happened years ago.
I went to a psychiatrist several years ago. What I learned about myself was
interesting and helped to tie together some loose ends, I think by the time I
made the decision to see a psychiatrist I had already put things together
myself.
Today I consider myself a relatively happy person, happier than most. I rarely
think about what happened those years ago, and when I do I can look at it
fairly objectively and matter of fact. I feel more confident than at almost any
other time in my life.
|
| 99.10 | From the 'net' one reply from Lisa C | WMOIS::B_REINKE | If you are a dreamer, come in.. | Tue May 30 1989 22:28 | 172 |
| The following was forwarded to me from the 'net'. It
includes some interesting conversations appropriate
to both this topic and the guns topic, and also
includes Lisa Chabot's net address.
Bonnie
May 26, 1989 Message 1992 from Moira Mallison
I've tried to ignore the impulse to respond to the column by Maria
Miro Johnson that Heather posted, but it won't go away. The idea of
"Opening Our Hearts to Men" strikes Johnson as "pretty funny". It
strikes me as crucial.
As long as we give credence to the myth that it's Us vs. Them, we
foster a society in which 1 out of 4 women is raped in her lifetime,
many by men who are not strangers to us. Teaching women (from
girlhood) to fear men as the enemy sets up a dynamic in which we are
not able to fully love our partners or our boy-children, spiraling
to the point where the only way they know how to get their needs met
is to attack and demand it from us.
I have been raped. My neck muscles hold the memories of the terror
I felt when a knife was held to my throat, and demands were made.
My throat muscles hold unpleasant memories of having an unwelcome
penis shoved down it. My heart holds the memories of having been
betrayed by someone who had seemed so sweet and gentle only moments
before. My spirit has forgiven him, has felt compassion for him,
and is at peace. But that's outrageous!!! Perhaps, but when I
asked myself what I would need to do to heal the terrifying and
painful memories, the answer I got was to forgive him. I didn't do
it because it would make any difference to him, I did it for myself,
for my Self.
Forgiveness doesn't mean accepting unacceptable behavior. It
doesn't mean staying in an abusive situation. It means separating
the doer from the deed. It was not the rape I forgave, it was the
man who raped me. I have incredible compassion for the young woman
I was 17 years ago, who was so hungry for love and affection that I
made some (unwise) choices in hopes of receiving it. I also have
compassion for the young man who didn't know how to get his needs
met any other way. I understand that he, himself, was coming from a
space of fear, of darkness.
An example, perhaps easier to accept, is to imagine yourself walking
down a street when, suddenly, you are shoved from behind. Anger
and/or fear rises as you turn around to confront the person who
violated your sense of safety. You see the white cane, and the
anger/fear melts into compassion. The tightness is gone from your
body. Forgiveness is accomplished when you can think of the person
without contracting. I revisited the exact spot of my rape a couple
years ago for the first time since 1972. I walked through the park,
I sat down and looked around. I lay down and looked at the trees
above rustling in the spring breeze. Yes, this is the place, I
thought. I took a few deep breaths, and felt the peace that was
within.
We all contribute to the society we live in by our daily actions,
and reactions. How can we, as women (and our compassionate
brothers), contribute is such a way that in some future decade, the
ratio of women experiencing rape moves from 1:4 to 1:10. 1:100,
1:1000? We stop posing as powerless victims.
1. We look carefully at the choices we make. (I feel deep
compassion for the Central Park Jogger, and can say in the same
breath, that jogging at 10PM through Central Park is not a choice
*I* would make).
2. Rape is a dis-ease of society, and dis-ease is caused by fear,
anger, judgement, resentment turned inward. We notice when those
feelings come up in our personal lives, and letting go, of the
righteousness of those emotions, we seek a shift in perception.
Is there another way, a more loving, compassionate way I can view
this situation? From this comes our power. It is the power of
wholeness; it is the power of freedom; it is the power of Love.
3. We develop the understanding that we truly are all in this
together. That whatever the circumstances of our lives, we are
the privileged ones, and it is up to us to be the way-showers.
How can we help mend the deep wounds between the masculine and
feminine in our society?
Opening our hearts to men is not about sticking our heads in the
sand, and pretending that every male we come in contact with is an
honest, trustworthy person with nothing but our best interests at
heart. It is, rather, acknowledging that whatever the circumstances
of his life, he is entitled to love and compassion.
Moira Mallison
[email protected]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
May 26, 1989 Message 1993 from Lisa S Chabot
I should like to point out that even in the US it is not always
legally possible to obtain a handgun: for example, in 1981, I
applied for the appropriate permits in Brookline Massachusetts; the
restrictions were that I had to be a member of club (and so have a
place to shoot) or that my job required it (not that I needed it to
qualify for a job I was applying for)--self-defense was not
considered a valid reason and you had to have proof of
club-membership or a statement from your employer that your job
required it. And then, it took months for the police to determine
that I did not have a police record; by which time I was again a
poor student without the money to purchase a gun, so the question
was moot.
My experience with handguns was enough to make me wary of bundling
one around in my backpack or purse all the time. And then, I am
sufficiently worried about the effect that something that even
resembles a handgun might have on the officer who stops me for
speeding or a broken taillight.
Rather than say not all of us can be ninja-warriors, I would phrase
it more positively: some of us can inact vengeance, more of us can
learn that we can act against an attack against ourselves (and learn
to make informed decisions about our own efficacy against a
particular attacker or attackers) and ALL of us benefit by the
actions of the first two groups in dispersing this fog of fear.
But, as our anonymous member has poignantly reminded us: it is best
if we can make it so that every knows from childhood the moral
repugnance of rape.
I should like to clarify, that I wasn't quite advocating fighting
fear with fear, but rather, by women gaining confidence, to show
that women aren't afraid and so fear is no longer the paralyzing
tool of the attacker. Don't merely defend your fear or dwell on it,
but look at it to find what it will tell you.
Lisa Chabot
[email protected]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
May 26, 1989 Message 1994 from Marion Ingle
Subject: 'Armed defense'
It is interesting to see the comments about self defense, arms and
rape.
Unfortunately statistics show (if they are anything to go by) that
most women are raped by someone they know and trust, and in a
location that they would normally feel safe in.
Many women I know have been raped in this way, but unfortunately
many people only associate rape with dark alleys and knives . When
being raped by a "friend" in her own home, a women often gets lack
of understanding and disbelief. And even comments like, " Well
what did you invite him in for then?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
May 26, 1989 Message 1995 from Steve Bellovin
Subject: Message from Travis Lee Winfrey
I can't agree that prevention is a solution to the rape problem.
Society has been notoriously unsuccessful at convincing people not
to commit other crimes; why should people simply not rape, but go on
to steal, murder, etc.? (Note that I'm not saying I don't want
rapes prevented. Nor am I saying anything about the root causes of
any sort of crime. I'm simply saying that telling people ``rape
hurts people'' isn't particularly likely to have any effect.)
--Steve Bellovin
ulysses!smb
[email protected]
========================================================================
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id AA13574; Fri, 26 May 89 20:39:46 PDT
|
| 99.11 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Wed May 31 1989 03:57 | 80 |
|
re: -(.1) Moira Mallison
> Forgiveness doesn't mean accepting unacceptable behavior. It
> doesn't mean staying in an abusive situation. It means separating
> the doer from the deed. ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No way. Individuals are responsible for their actions.
(And since when is rape a "deed"?)
Separating the doer from the deed translates to ignoring the person's
accountability for what was done. Then when the inevitable question,
"Why did this happen?", is asked, the blame is shifted elsewhere. In
the case of rape, the blame is shifted from the man to the woman for
choosing to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, for wearing
provacative clothing, for not being strong enough to fend off the attack,
etc., or the blame is shifted to "society" for allowing conditions to exist
such that a man would "need" to commit rape.
The rest of Moira Mallison's message shows she is indeed shifting
responsibility for a rapists actions. By *not* holding the rapist
accountable, she "felt the peace that was within." If this therapy
works for her, fine. But I would be very distressed if I thought most
people agreed with her on the other points she made.
Specifically,
> 1. We look carefully at the choices we make. (I feel deep
compassion for the Central Park Jogger, and can say in the same
breath, that jogging at 10PM through Central Park is not a choice
*I* would make).
This implies I restrict my personal freedoms to the extent that 65%
of all evening engagements I currently have should be cancelled so that
I do not "pose as a powerless victim." So last Friday night I should not
have been in Dorchester at a youth benefit/roller-skating party. And
I should cancel weekly evening meetings in Cambridge where the homicide
rate increased 250% from 1987 to 1988. And, after all, I don't really need
to take that night class offered by Northeastern this fall.
No. Instead, "we" should look more carefully at the choices we make and
take responsibility for our own personal protection, regardless of where we
are, and instead of relying on our SO's, the police, or others being
around when your person is threatened. Central Park would be a safer place
if all joggers would carry the easily concealable Walther PPK in a lightweight
nylon holster under a pullover or flourescent vest (and, of course, be
properly trained in the use of a handgun for self-defense).
Word would get around that joggers are not to be messed with.
When all women avoid a certain place or area, we send an implicit
message to the members of that area of our expectations of their behavior.
My female friends and I established a presence while on the streets of
Dorchester last weekend that silently yelled, "We are here and we expect
you to treat us as well." Amazingly enough, beyond a few surprised looks,
this worked. On the other hand, had we stayed away, they would be mumbling
things like, "They knew better to come on *our* street..."
> 2. Rape is a dis-ease of society, and dis-ease is caused by fear,
anger, judgement, resentment turned inward.
No. Rape is a *crime* where typically a man forces a woman to have sexual
intercourse. Calling rape a disease implies a man has little to no control
over his "sick" decision to use his superior strength to make a woman
submit.
> It is, rather, acknowledging that whatever the circumstances
> of his life, he is entitled to love and compassion.
Men in general? Yes. Rapists? Never.
Especially in times when the latest rage is crime being increasingly
seen as "fun". ^^^^ (two meanings)
These kids don't need leniency. They need to be locked up for 15 years
of the most violent periods of their life (statistically between 15 and
30). They might not be better when they leave at age 30, but Central Park
would be.
not feelin sorry for the wild things,
nancy b.
|
| 99.12 | An observation, not an agreement | RUBY::BOYAJIAN | Starfleet Security | Wed May 31 1989 08:35 | 7 |
| re:.11
I think that by "separating the doer from the deed", Ms. Mallison
is essentially rephrasing the well-known remark "hate the sin but
love the sinner".
--- jerry
|
| 99.13 | | RUTLND::SAISI | | Wed May 31 1989 13:23 | 2 |
| re .11, Nancy, you express my sentiments exactly.
Linda
|
| 99.14 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Wed May 31 1989 14:33 | 17 |
| Re: .11
I don't think it's being used to abrogate personal responsibility.
Rather, it's used to gain perspective. When the rape and the rapist
are intertwined in one's mind, the rapist is a rapist, no more and
no less. When the two are separated, the rapist becomes a person
who committed a rape; there is more to this person than only the
act of rape. The monster becomes a human, however flawed.
In fact, I think separating the rape and the rapist supports the
idea of personal responsibility. The rapist, being a person, made
a choice to commit a crime and hurt someone. If the rape and the
rapist remain interconnected, the purpose of the rapist is to commit
rape. That is why the rapist exists. The rape has no reason, it
just is. The natural response to that which is fearful but unexplained
is superstition. Since superstition is a coping technique, it
postpones the resolution of the emotional consequences.
|
| 99.15 | Women do not cause rape! | BEING::DUNNE | | Wed May 31 1989 15:03 | 12 |
| I think it's necessary to say here that rape is an act of
aggression. It's not an attempt to get one's needs met,
unless you consider hurting other people a need. (This is
the universal belief of people who work with rapists.)
I also think rape has nothing to do with friction between the
sexes. There are a lot of cultures where there is much less
friction between the sexes than this, and their rape statistics
are very high.
Eileen
|
| 99.16 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Wed May 31 1989 17:04 | 17 |
| Re: .15
Time to muddy the waters ....
>It's not an attempt to get one's needs met,
The latest _Time_ has an article on juvenile sex offenders. They
raise the possibility that some of the teenagers are, in fact, acting
out of sexual frustration. Their hormones are urging both lust
and aggression while their social skills often aren't equal to the
task of find a sexual partner. They're frequently exposed to violence
toward women; in fact, slasher films provide a large portion of
many teenagers' exposure to sex. So, when they can't get what they
want in socially acceptable ways, they take a short cut.
However, I've read that most adult rapists have at least adequate
sex lives.
|
| 99.17 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Thu Jun 01 1989 03:56 | 48 |
|
re: 99.14 ACESMK::CHELSEA
> I don't think it's being used to abrogate personal responsibility.
> Rather, it's used to gain perspective.
By "it" you mean "separating the doer from the deed", right?
While I agree the intent of "separating the doer from the deed" was not
to *totally* abrogate responsibility for the crime, the rest of the message
did, in fact, attempt to shift blame elsewhere, which seems to happen at the
onset of all discussions on rape.
I remember being pretty disappointed when I first read topic 525 (Rape - why?).
Actually, I only scrolled through the first 10 screens or so of it when I got
sick of seeing the same old "who's to blame" question and much of the
discussion centering around women's dress and debate on other ways we
"ask for it."
> When the two are separated, the rapist becomes a person
> who committed a rape; there is more to this person than only the
> act of rape. The monster becomes a human, however flawed.
I agree with what I think you are saying here... That is one reason why
I do not call a man who has blatantly sexist attitudes a "male chauvinist
pig"; I call him a "man who has blatantly sexist attitudes", because he is
first and foremost a man and not a pig. And now that you mentioned it, I
would prefer calling male "rapists", "men who rape", instead. You are right.
They started out being male/a man (just like all men) before they raped.
But,
> In fact, I think separating the rape and the rapist supports the
> idea of personal responsibility.
...I still can't agree with that...
and
> The rape has no reason, it
> just is. The natural response to that which is fearful but unexplained
> is superstition. Since superstition is a coping technique, it
> postpones the resolution of the emotional consequences.
...I'm not sure I understand how superstition relates to *not* separating
the man who raped from the rape...
nancy b.
|
| 99.18 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Thu Jun 01 1989 04:13 | 12 |
|
re: .15 Eileen, and .16 ACESMK::CHELSEA
I have often heard the statements about rape being an act of violence/power
and not lust beyond control said to victims as if in consolation.
Why? I would rather think I was raped because my body was just too
appealing for the man who raped to resist rather than to think he just
wanted to be violent towards me...
nancy b.
|
| 99.19 | missing the point? | HYDRA::LARU | goin' to graceland | Thu Jun 01 1989 10:50 | 11 |
|
I don't think anyone is trying to blame the victim or
redefine rape to be more acceptable.
It seems to me that Moira Mallison was describing the
way that she enabled herself to get over the trauma and
self-recriminations and fantasies of revenge so that
she could get on with her life in a free and joyful way,
rather than letting the rape control her life.
/bruce
|
| 99.20 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Thu Jun 01 1989 16:03 | 22 |
| Re: .17
>By "it" you mean "separating the doer from the deed", right?
Right.
>I'm not sure I understand how superstition relates to *not* separating
>the man who raped from the rape
If the two are separated, the rape can be explained as the result
of a choice made by the man (or, in much rarer cases, woman). If
the two are not separated, the questions are more along the lines
of "Why did this happen to me?" or "Why does rape happen?" If the
agent of the event is not recognized as a person, then you're most
likely left with fate being the agent. It didn't happen because
someone chose to make it happen; it happened because it happened
and that's just the way things are. Superstitions are used to cope
with fate by creating a sense of control. For instance, deciding
that the place where the rape happened is a bad or evil place is
superstitious; avoiding that place can be an act of superstition
if it's done because "something bad will happen to me again if I
go there."
|
| 99.26 | Politics Elsewhere, Thanks | EST::TATISTCHEFF | | Sat Jun 10 1989 04:32 | 35 |
| re .25 Dick's questions [as well as some other replies]
Dick, I started this note for people who have been raped to talk
about their post-facto [long- and short-term] FEELINGS, not the
role of society in generating those feelings, not political
ramifications of rape, not cause of rape, etc, etc. Contributions
to the topic have been sparse, but there is some *real* help in
some of them (like Nancy's list - more on that later).
If someone like me is looking for contact with others and their
feelings, political discussions can be such a slap in the face that
s/he will not wade through them to find the few, wonderful replies
where s/he may learn that someone else feels like that, too.
Upshot? PLEASE take the politics and advice to another topic.
The support is appreciated, and remains more than welcome.
Re Nancy
Wow! You GOT him?!?! You are one brrrrrave lady! I salute your
toughness.
I, too, feel like after what I've been through (nowhere near as
icky as your experience sounds), I can survive whatever gets thrown
at me. It's funny: around the time of The Incident I had been toying
with the idea of suicide. Not once since...
Funny, too, how so many of us refer to the bad guy(s) as "our" rapists
- as if he belongs to us, or perhaps his actions belong to us.
Maybe it reflects some (continued) level of responsibility (guilt)
we feel for the fact that It Happened. *sigh* yet another thought
to purge from the brain; it's such a downer to realize that I *still*
feel guilty. Grrrr.
Lee
|
| 99.27 | On moving notes and accidents | WMOIS::B_REINKE | If you are a dreamer, come in.. | Sat Jun 10 1989 21:35 | 17 |
| Moderator response.
Tonite I moved the responses to Nancy Bittle's note to note 525
that was started for responses to note 99. I also changed the
titles of both notes to make it easier for people to respond
to note 99. It has been about 10 months since 99 was first entered
and I'm sure that many of us have forgotten that the note was
only for personal experiences of rape and not for commentary.
But *&*%#@, ^%$#*, and &*%(#@! I some how deleted Nancy Bittle's
powerful note, and I cannot get it back.
My appologies to the entire community for my clumseyness.
One seriously upset moderator.
Bonnie
|
| 99.28 | I value your thoughts... | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Mon Jun 12 1989 02:10 | 43 |
|
re: .26 (Lee T.'s comments regarding political aspects of responses)
As you indicated, I hope =wn= noters still know that their thoughts and
feelings (political or otherwise) on the subject of rape and what I write
about my experiences are highly valued and appreciated. The responses to
my list of side effects in this conference and the several mails I received
(sole exception being one rather strange mail) have been an important
factor in making me feel less unsettled when writing about my experience
and rape in general.
I can understand the need to have the discussion of the "why" of rape in a
different note...When I finally decided to take a look at the "Rape - Why?"
topic in note 525 on what was 3 years to the day of The Incident, my
immediate, irrational, and hostile response to the first subject title of
the first reply to that topic ("Do people ask to be raped?") was to power
down my worksystem.
While waiting for my system to reboot, I decided to give it another chance
only to be further disappointed at how many screens it took to get to
anything related to what I thought was helpful ("Who rapes & why", for
example.)
Of course, this is from my viewpoint as a victim. I do not mean to imply
that what was initially discussed in topic 525 is not helpful to anyone.
Moreover, the noter who is aware of patterns in discussion of rape or what
goes on in court cases might be able to relate that the order of subjects
discussed in topic 525 mirrors what happens in real life. For example, the
*FIRST* reaction of many to the recent brutal rape of a woman in Central
Park was some variation of "What was she doing there?" Only later does the
dialogue eventually turn to who did the rape and why. And in hearings, the
first thing that needs to be proved (or so it seems) is that the victim is
really a 'victim' independent of whether the rape occurred.
re: .27 (Bonnie Reinke)
No problem...
You're giving me the opportunity to add a couple things to the list that
I've thought of since I entered it last week, without having to make a
separate reply.
nancy b.
|
| 99.29 | "Side effects" 3 yrs later; rev 1.1 | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Mon Jun 12 1989 02:45 | 98 |
|
1. nightmares of the rape
2. insomnia/fear of going to sleep alone
3. needing someone to be in same bed or room to fall asleep
4. injuring that "someone" in bed when having nightmares of the rape
5. promiscuousness
6. guilt about #5 because maybe I use them to get #3
7. guilt about not being smart/strong/quick enough to stop attacker
8. guilt about being in a "relatively safe" but wrong place at wrong time
9. heightened awareness of risk management in different situations
o seatbelts used in cars
o fire extinguisher in kitchen
o gun in bedroom
10. anger that I was naive enough to believe I could successfully
defend myself against a man using techniques learned in self defense
classes and my superior (for a woman) upper and lower body strength
obtained through 8 years of AAU competitive swimming, weight lifting,
basketball, neighborhood football games, and generally trying to be
as strong as big brother.
...regret that I believed in the exception rather than the rule as to
who comes out the victor in testosterone vs estrogen confrontations
where the estrogen side is unarmed
11. consolation in knowing my case beat the Bureau of Justice statistics
stating there is only a 1 in 600 chance of a rapist getting caught
*and* convicted (and the average among them has assaulted 17 women
before he is convicted)
12. disdain for criminal defense lawyers
13. apprehension in knowing I will have to face my rapist as an
"interested party" in future parole hearings
14. relief that I did not catch a STD, AIDS, or get pregnant.
15. fear of my rapist being let out early due to overcrowding in prisons
and coming after me for revenge (maybe because of this I do not give
my address to anyone new I meet for a long time, and think hard about
giving my home phone number to someone, pay for things in cash as much
as possible to avoid creating a paper trail of my actions via checks
and credit card use - a cop's tip)
16. routine GYN visits are major trauma
I am long overdue now for a checkup and have even gone so far as
to use drugs not prescribed to me (ampicillin) for a UTI instead
of making an appointment with a GYN. But I can rationalize
letting my prescription for Ortho-Novum 7-7-7 run out a while ago
(instead of going back to GYN to get it renewed) in the interest
of forcing me to be "safe".
17. dislike for the r word; tendency to euphemize with words like attack
or assault
18. developed a few "hot buttons": I will react with hostility
- at anyone who indirectly or directly refers to rape as something
that women really desire or fantasize about
Why? Precedents exists where 'female fantasy' was specifically used
as a justification for rules of proof
see State v. Anderson, 272 Minn. 384, 137 N.W.2d 781, 783 (1965)
Power v. State, 43 Ariz. 329, 332, 30 P.2d, 1059,1060 (1934)
- at criticizing a woman for "asking for it" by being at a certain
place at a certain time. Her only mistake was to not have taken
measures so that she could protect herself.
19. telling myself not to wimp out and be scared in relatively high-risk
areas because "nothing could happen to me that would be worse than
anything that has happened before"
20. not totally trusting men I date because I lost all faith in my ability
to judge character in men when my ex-SO (whom I was certain I would
eventually marry) broke up with me shortly after I was raped.
I spread the risk of being too emotionally dependent on any one man
by always dating more than one at a time. In addition, dating more
than one man at a time eliminates those men who desire the masculine
pride obtained by having exclusive possession of a sexual object
(the woman).
21. mental toughness (I have survived and therefore can
take *anything* life has to dish out)
22. but only 1 physical scar remaining
Finally, surprise that I can talk about this in a notes conference when I
have gone to great extremes to hide this from my parents, do not tell men
I date unless it becomes apparent via #4, and did not get far into therapy
because I simply couldn't talk about it.
nancy b.
|
| 99.30 | On bravery, suicide, and word usage | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Mon Jun 12 1989 03:18 | 70 |
| re: .27 (Lee T.'s comments on my list of side effects)
I don't know if I would call making sure my rapist was put in jail an
especially "brave" thing...it just seemed like the most logical thing to
do.
For about a month after The Incident I was mainly rational and unemotional
about the whole experience. This was probably because I was simultaneously
dealing with the death of my older brother and was very concerned about
protecting my parents from finding out what happened to me. A routine GYN
visit 1 month later triggered all hell to break loose in my mind for
several months, and the nightmares began.
Another reason why it didn't take a great deal of bravery to decide to
prosecute was because I knew the case was pretty much open and shut. In the
eyes of the court, it fit neatly into the standard "social" definition of
classic, traditional rape. Contributing factors to this included:
- he was a stranger
- he used a weapon
- he weighed more than I
- his use of force on my body necessitated by my 'utmost resistance'
was obvious through a minor concussion, bruised ribs, several cuts
and bruises
- medical corroboration
- lack of information in my past that could have been used to
discredit me
Believe it or not, all of these factors are important in getting a guilty
verdict. Shocking court precedents exist acquitting the rapist or
overturning convictions in appeals court on the grounds that the man knew
the woman, the man didn't beat the woman up (i.e., the woman didn't resist
or have proof of using 'utmost resistance'), the man did not wield a weapon
and the woman weighed more than the man, the evidence of a woman's
unchastity had a direct bearing on her credibility, etc... From my
viewpoint, it takes *much* more bravery to pursue a date rape case where
the victim knows the assailant very well, and the only physical signs the
rape took place (if at all) might be red marks around the woman's wrists.
> at me. It's funny: around the time of The Incident I had been toying
> with the idea of suicide. Not once since...
I didn't think about suicide except in the following context...After not
wanting to go anywhere alone for a couple months following the attack, I
went to the opposite extreme. I rationalized that if anything like The
Incident happened again to me, I would simply not "Choose Life" (like the
tee-shirts say). I behaved accordingly for about a year (being "fearless",
going anywhere, anytime, alone or with others). However, I slowly
realized that I really love life, and would never be able to take my own.
But I also knew that if anything like The Incident reoccurred, I would
become a vegetable; hence, I became fearful, once again. So I started
doing research into the various methods of self protection - which methods
are statistically most effective, and which are either useless or dangerous
to attempt to use.
> Funny, too, how so many of us refer to the bad guy(s) as "our" rapists
Lee, I never would've noticed that! I wasn't aware I practiced that usage,
but I checked, and I certainly did use the term "my rapist" in one of the
items on my list.
> - as if he belongs to us, or perhaps his actions belong to us.
> Maybe it reflects some (continued) level of responsibility (guilt)
> we feel for the fact that It Happened. *sigh* yet another thought
I can't seem to think of a clear reasoning behind my usage. I don't
consciously feel he belongs to me. Maybe his actions belong to me in the
sense that because of them, I am a different person, and the world is
different place. ...not sure...
nancy b.
|
| 99.31 | On fighting back | SYSENG::BITTLE | Nancy Bittle-Hardware Engineer,LSEE | Fri Jun 23 1989 08:29 | 54 |
|
When you were attacked, did you resist in any way (verbally or
physically), or was the situation such that the best choice was
to not fight back?
What effect did your resistance/non-resistance have on your
attacker and on you?
I resisted physically when I quickly realized that verbal
statements would have no effect on him...I surprised myself at
being rational enough to try to use some appropriate techniques I
had learned in a course on self defense. I was more surprised at
how ineffective the techniques were at stopping him.
The immediate effect of my resistance on the attacker was to get
him more excited and more tenacious about what he wanted. I
think he enjoyed seeing that he could overpower me! Sensing this
infuriated me, and I resisted more violently. His response left
me unable to deny him further.
This might sound aberrant, but I am still glad I fought back. I
say this, and yet I am certain that I would not have suffered as
many physical injuries had I been passive.
If I had not resisted as best I possibly could (the legal term is
'utmost resistance'), I would now be feeling significantly more
guilt than I currently do about not being able to somehow outwit
or overpower the rapist, because I would not have even tried.
For example, if I had not fought back, I would now be thinking,
"If only I had tried xxx or yyy when he first grabbed me...I know
I was strong enough to..."
Another factor in deciding to fight back was that I had a gut
feeling he did not want to kill me. He was angry, contemptuous,
needing to humiliate and subjugate, and wielding what the courts
determined was a weapon, but he was not a murderer.
So you have a choice: mental scars or physical scars. It's been
my experience that plastic surgeons can remove physical scars
easier, cheaper, and faster than head doctors can remove mental
scars.
I would like to hear from other victims of violence on this
subject. Given the possibility of being attacked sometime again
in my lifetime, I am trying to decide if I would fight back
physically if I were unarmed and attacked. Right now I am
leaning towards not fighting back since it has been proven to me
I can't successfully defend my body using my physical strength
against a man of average strength.
nancy b.
|
| 99.32 | prosecution is not _always_ the answer | SELL3::JOHNSTON | weaving my dreams | Tue Jun 27 1989 11:44 | 67 |
| The first after effect I felt was the need to be held. Safe and warm
and accepting. The man who raped me had been a friend. My immediate
need was to prove to myself that there _were_ friends that didn't deny
my humanity and right of person.
A year previously we had ended a relationship and continued as friends.
Six months previously he had taken a job elsewhere. I was in a new
relationship -- intimate but not the same household. He was back in
town for a couple days on personal business and we had dinner.
Afterward he took me back to the house and sat around talking about
stuff like mutual friends and campus politics, just as we had on any
number of occasions.
His first advance was verbal and light and I honestly thought he was
joking. However, when I laughed he became angry and verbally abusive.
I asked him to leave and when he wouldn't I tried to, but he prevented
me.
Yes, I resisted physically, but when he grasped me under the jaw and
started to apply pressure something in me just gave up and vacated. My
denial -- I couldn't prevent it, but I wouldn't let it happen to _me_.
A lasting effect is that I do not like people touching my neck and when
it occurs in an amourous situation I become nauseous.
Beyond a few insignificant bruises, I sustained no physical damage.
His intent had not been to injure me, "merely" to prove to both of us
that I only had the power of denial if _he_ allowed me to have it.
After he left, I ran to a friend and told her what happened. She called
the police. The interview was EXCRUCIATING. I spoke to a lawyer who
was unendingly sympathetic but made a strong case against trying to
prosecute.
In my favour:
I could prove I had had sex
I was obviously upset by the experience
Against me:
Our past relationship
My present relationship
We had been seen together in public to be most amicable
I lived alone
I had invited him into my home
Only my word that I had not 'encouraged' him
I would have been crucified!!! no chance of a conviction and a
certainty of multiplying the emotional damage I had already sustained.
I was angry, resentful, hurt. To this day I experience outrage that he
was not punished, but I accept that it was the better road that I not
be punished further.
I set about 'protecting' myself by asking the man in my life to live
with me after his lease expired. [I no longer lived alone!!!]
I have always had a need for space, but I am still obsessive about
having a space of MY OWN -- even if it's only a piece of furniture,
although I prefer a whole room -- that no one invades, that I control.
I never experienced guilt for what happened to me, but I did experience
contempt for my assumption of invulnerability. I have tried, and
believe I have succeeded, to keep the resulting cynicism from
distorting relationships; but I have never regained the
ability to give of myself in friendship without reservation.
Ann
|
| 99.33 | | BRONS::BURROWS | Jim Burrows | Fri Jun 30 1989 02:30 | 96 |
| I have written about being attacked before, but never really
about the feelings I have about it. In fact, I don't even
remember thinking about my feelings about it very much in the
last 20 years. I wasn't raped, just sexually assaulted.
Short version of the story:
I was hitch-hiking in an area that was cruised by men intereted
in finding boys and young men for sexual encounters. I hadn't
originally know that, but learned it on about the third time I
did it. As it was the only way to get home after the rapid
transit closed, and I often worked very late, and since the
first several men who picked me up had been considerate I
hitched in the area anyway and carefully explained I was just
trying to get home to my girl friend before getting in the car.
After a couple of weeks I got picked up by a man who once I got
in started to try to convince me that I really wanted "it". He
also started breathing through his teeth in a truely repulsive
way. I assured him that I had no such interest. Shortly I had to
remove his hand from my thigh. I asked him to stop and to let me
off. I removed his hand again, and demanded that he stop and
that he stop the car and let me leave.
The third time I brought the edge of my hand down on his wrist
so hard that I heard a snap. (I remember thinking in a blackly
humorous way that it would be appropriate if I'd broken his
wrist leaving him limp- wristed. I knew that didn't really make
sens, but I wasn't at my best at the moment.) I then opened the
door and stepped out of the moving car at a dead run. A police
car happened to be behind us and I waved frantically and pointed
at the receeding car. When the two cars were out of sight I
hitched home.
The rest of that summer I continued to hitch home down the same
road. I suspect I did it in part to get back on the horse that
threw me. Perhaps there was some of the sense of immortality
that teenagers, especially hippies of the late 60's feel/felt.
How do I/did I feel about it? To this day I can still conjure up
the sound of this heavy, rapid, breathing between his teeth. It
never fails to make me angry. I can feel my blood coursing and
the mini-shakes in my fingers. I remember him as extremely
repulsive. He was in fact fat, old, and unhealthy looking and
that breathing made him sound sick and deranged, but I suspect
he wasn't actualy as ugly as my memory of him.
I don't generalize my loathing for him to others who happen to
share his sex or sexual orientation. They are, after all, fellow
human beings. He was walking pond scum. There is no comparison. I
do not allow him any escape for full responsibility for what he
did. It was his fault, and not society's or mine.
That being said, I can admit that in some sense I was "asking
for it" in the sense that someone wrote earlier. That is I was
knowingly doing something that was dangerous. I took chances
that I knew could result in something I very much didn't want to
have happen. I didn't want it. I didn't request it. I could have
avoided it.
Although it was not the sole or even the primary cause, I do not
to this day readily use men's shower rooms or urinals or other
public toilets without stall doors that latch. From this attack
and from having been beaten by my classmates repeatedly as a
boy, I don't readily make myself vulnerable in front of other
males. It's getting better.
I guess that the way I have generalized my experience isn't
towards other men, or towards homosexual men, but towards my own
state of vulnerability. Other than the deep loathing that I have
for the particular toad (it is nearly impossible to speak of him
as a person) who attacked me, and my refusal to justify
victimizers most of my reaction to the event is directed towards
myself, my actions and my inner condition.
This is, I think, the third time I've written about this
experience in a file. Each time it has been very hard. The other
times I wondered what I was afraid of--did I think it would
affect my career or reputation. This time, thinking about my
feelings explicitly, it seems that the reason it's hard to write
about is simply that by writing about it I make myself
vulnerable. You know, I don't think I could bring myself to
write about it or talk about it in an all-male forum.
ANd it's probably because it's so hard to write about that I do
write about it. I hate being intimidated, and the thought of
writing about it intimidates me, and I won't co�perate with
intimidation.
Vulnerability probably explains why I didn't wait to see if the
police would come back either with or without him. I don't think
I was up to facing authority figures. Better to hitch-hike away
on the same street. Please don't ask me to make that sound like
it makes sense.
JimB.
|
| 99.34 | urinary retention | HANNAH::OSMAN | see HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240 | Fri Jun 30 1989 15:20 | 62 |
|
Jim, thanks for sharing about being attacked. Your part about no
longer using exposed urinals reminds me of something that happened
to me.
As I went through high school, college, and beyond, I became gradually
less able to relax enough to unrinate in public restrooms, and
certainly not at exposed urinals.
I'd have to be totally alone, and if I was in a public stall, I'd
start worrying that someone would wonder "what's taking that guy
so long" or I'd worry that someone would think that guy in there
is gay and looking for "action". All these worries would continue
to prevent me from urinating, which I've since learned is totally
a relaxed activity. That is, the process of urination is merely
relaxing a sphincter muscle.
I remember at the height of the problem, being out on a date
at a rock concert, and having to wait until I was home late at night
in order to go, a very uncomfortable evening indeed. Sure, I visited
the restroom at the concert, but couldn't go.
Anyway, I finally discussed this problem with a therapist. At first,
no discoveries were made. But finally, I happened to remember an
incident that happened to me way back in 8th grade (junior high
school).
I had never connected the incident with my "urinary retention problem",
as the therapist called it. There was no reason to make the
connection, since the problem developed gradually over about 10 years
AFTER the indicent.
The incident was a small one. I was standing in front of a urinal
at school, and while urinating, one of the kids came up behind me,
and pulled me away from the urinal by my shoulders. I remember him
and his friends laughing. I remember being embarrassed that they made
me pee on the floor, and on my shoe.
Once the therapist pointed out the "obvious connection", I was able
to start relieving the problem. He gave me some relaxation exercises.
He also had conversations like this with me:
Dr.: So you're sitting there in a public stall. What are you
thinking ?
Me: That someone is wondering what's taking me so long.
Dr: What does it matter what they think ?
Me: I don't know.
Silly little conversations like this, which eventually allowed me to
start relaxing enough so that the problem abated. I must admit, even
now I'm not completely cured. I still can't stand at a public urinal
with other men around, and be able to urinate. But at least I have
no problem doing so in a stall, even often standing therein instead
of sitting (which I also used to never be able to do because I'd worry
about what other men thought about this guy standing in there)
So yes, life's experiences sure can affect our behavior.
/Eric
|
| 99.35 | One down... | SYSENG::BITTLE | and my heart rejoices! | Tue Jul 04 1989 05:40 | 11 |
|
Since originally entering my list of side effects in 99.29,
I can definitely say one side effect has disappeared.
I am no longer squeamish or unsettled by the word 'rape',
formerly known as 'the r word'.
Hey, it's a start. :-).
*Thank you.*
nancy b.
|
| 99.36 | How do you not fear now? | SYSENG::BITTLE | Don't turn around. | Fri Jul 28 1989 08:26 | 15 |
| re: 714.8 (M. Irlbacher)
I wish I were as strong as you.
How can you rationalize it to yourself (not being afraid after having been
raped)?
Sometimes, I think I just intensely fear having another physical
confrontation with someone, since its been proven to me I would lose.
Maybe if I were beat up again, then it would be such a shock to my mind ...
that I would quit having nightmares about the rape and not be afraid and
get on with life as before and not worry about a physical confrontation
happening again ... because it already did.
nancy b.
|
| 99.37 | Don't scream. | SYSENG::BITTLE | | Tue Aug 15 1989 05:19 | 53 |
| If you're attacked, don't scream.
Someone might hear you. You will end out wishing you had
just made up a story as to why you look banged up (so to
speak).
If you scream, then someone you don't know will find you,
and you will short-circuit and think you still need to
protect yourself, so you hit him and need to be restrained
from hurting any man that touches you for the next couple
hours. Then he will call the police and you'll be taken to
a hospital where they will take all your clothes away as
evidence because they're bloody. You will be examined in
an emergency room with no privacy by a foreign non-
communicative physician in front of several male police
officers with your feet in cold metal stirrups. They will
take pictures. The doctor will ask you when your last
period was and maybe give you something so you won't become
pregnant that will make you nauseated and sick. And he
won't tell you that the drug will throw off your cycle so
that, in a couple weeks, you will be terrified out of your
mind when you don't get your period. But you blank out and
thankfully not remember any more of the exam. When you wake
up you will be asked questions by the police that seem to
border on voyeurism. After you've been xrayed and stitched
and taped and watched for a day, you'll be released. You'll
receive a rape crisis center referral number, but your
lawyer will tell you not to use it, because it's unclear
whether the defense counsel could force any statements you
make to a rape counselor to be made available to the court
if the case goes to trial. Oh, and on your way out of the
hospital, you'll have to pay a non-trivial bill for the
experience. Meanwhile, the man that raped you is receiving
free legal counseling, free psychiatric services, and free
medical care. Then you have to threaten to sue the press
and media for invasion of privacy if they release your name
just to maintain some degree of privacy. Then you have to
face your boyfriend who no longer finds you attractive and
won't do anything physical with you at a time when you
desperately want to be touched and reassured. Then you have
the courtroom to look forward to: the preliminary hearing,
the grand jury indictment (rape is a felony), and then, if
there's enough evidence that you didn't want to be raped, the
trial, where your story will be torn to shreds by an inhuman
defense attorney, and then, if you're really lucky and get a
guilty verdict, the sentencing, and then, of course, all
rapists get out sooner or later; usually sooner, thanks to
parole boards and court-ordered federally imposed limits on
prison populations. But they'll be kind enough to write you
a letter to let you know.
No. Don't scream. Someone might hear you.
|
| 99.38 | | ICESK8::KLEINBERGER | There's 246!, 246? yes 246! | Fri Oct 06 1989 11:14 | 24 |
| I'm not sure whether I should use 525, or this topic. So, I'll start in
this one, and if anyone wants to move it, please feel free to do so.
I have been personally involved in a rape case for quite a while, while
not the victim myself, the victim was someone very near and dear to my
heart.
Yesterday, the sentences was handed down for this 18 year old that
committed not one but many rapes... the two ages of the victims that we
know of were 13 and 4 years old.
While going through jury selection, the rapist decided to plead
guilty instead of going through a trial. Whilst this was good from the
girls point of view, I wonder if he got a lighter sentence in doing
this?
And I wonder what this world is coming too, when an admitted rapist is
only given a 20 year sentence, and is sent to Concord, not Walpole, (or
is there a worse prison than Walpole?), and then the victims families
are told he will meet his first parole board in six months (OH, but,
consolation is the family will know when he goes to those hearings, OR
if he escapes)...
Does it ever end for the victims or there family?
|
| 99.39 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | healing from the inside out | Fri Oct 06 1989 12:41 | 56 |
| re: .38 (Gale Kleinberger)
> While going through jury selection, the rapist decided to plead
> guilty instead of going through a trial. Whilst this was good from the
> girls point of view, I wonder if he got a lighter sentence in doing
> this?
A 20 year sentence does sound rather light to me, especially since
his victims were so young - that raises the offense level of the
crime and is automatically a 1'st degree felony (aggravated rape as
opposed to simple rape) if there was not a prior consensual relationship
between victim and rapist.
But considering the tradeoff - having the young girls go through a
trial vs him getting a lighter sentence than he otherwise would have
had he been convicted - I think the girls are better off.
> and then the victims families are told he will meet his first parole
> board in six months
That disgusts but does not surprise me.
> (OH, but, consolation is the family will know when he goes to those
> hearings, OR if he escapes)...
It is a law in most states that the victim/victim's family is
required to be notified in those cases (parole or escape) when
the criminal committed a felony crime.
I was notified in August of a parole-grant hearing for the man who
raped me 3.5 years ago, to be held on Fri. Nov 10 (it is this
notification that I was referring to at the end of 99.37; that was
mostly what made me angry enough to write 99.37). I have made up
95% of my mind that I do not want to go to the hearing. The letter
I received almost makes it sound like it's already been decided,
with wording like "court-ordered federally-imposed limits on prison
populations force the state of __ to consider the parole/probation of...".
And I don't think I could deal with seeing him again. I feel like
I'm wimping out. The other 5% of my mind is saying that maybe if
I went I could make a difference (and to not be a wimp about it).
Thinking about him getting out is making my nightmares worse and
more frequent. I am so tired of needing drugs or someone to
sleep with or being completely exhausted to make it through the
night.
I don't know what I would do if He gets out. My first impulse is
to drop off the face of the earth - move far away, get a new identity,
a new job, etc... What if he is angrier at women now than when he
went in? What if he wants revenge at me for putting him in jail for
3+ years? [I'd better stop before I lose composure at work.]
> Does it ever end for the victims or there family?
I'm beginning to think not.
nancy b.
|
| 99.40 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - hardware engineer;LSE | Thu Nov 02 1989 12:49 | 16 |
|
* Injuring someone (hairline fracture in rib) I'm sleeping
with when I'm having a violent nightmare.
Feeling like sh*t about it, hating myself, wanting to
punish myself, but relieved that he doesn't hate me
for it.
* I hate having flowers delivered anonymously to me.
For a while (until the court case was over) after the
rape, I was harrassed anonymously by being sent flowers.
I can't prove who sent them, but I have a pretty good hunch
it was Him. I don't even like getting flowers much anymore,
anonymous or not. It's hard to explain.
|
| 99.41 | another experience from an anon author | WMOIS::B_REINKE | if you are a dreamer, come in.. | Fri Nov 03 1989 19:25 | 47 |
|
The following is from a member of the community who wishes to be
anonymous
Bonnie J Reinke
comoderator
______________________________________________________________________
I've been raped... twice. The first time was by a guy I knew at college.
I was in his dorm room (first mistake) when his roommate wasn't around. I
was helping him with some problems he was having in a math course. To show
his appreciation, he "gave me" sex. I was a virgin, and boy did that
experience change my attitude about sex. He forced himself on me vaginally
and when I didn't move right, he decided that I shouldn't have the pleasure
of his company that way. He forced me to stimulate him orally and didn't
have the option of 'spit or swallow'. I went to Campus Security and he was
arrested. He spent 4 years in jail. JUST FOUR YEARS!
I got married about a year and a half after the incident and it took me
close to 3 years to be able to orally stimulate my husband without gagging
just thinking about it.
The second time was a month after my daughter was born. We lived in a very
rural area (not anywhere near where this file is located) and in such a
small town, you have a small town attitude that you don't need to lock your
doors. My husband was working the early night shift and I was left at home
with my daughter. I was upstairs folding clothes when I heard the front
door open and close. I thought it was my grandmother-in-law (whose house
we were staying at) returning from her Bible Study. I heard my daughter
start crying in a way I had never heard her cry before. I got downstairs
and saw this man towering over my daughter in her bassinette. At that
point, I just wanted him away from her -- he looked like he was going to
hurt her, not be friendly with her. He turned around after I grabbed his
arm and knocked me to the floor. He was a large man who was quite fast as
well. I didn't have a chance to start to get away. He did his thing,
banging my head against the hardwood floor everytime I tried to get away by
pulling his hair or kicking him. After awhile, I think I just detached
myself and just laid there wishing it would just be over. He was never
caught.
Every once in awhile, I'm still plagued with nightmares. Every once in
awhile, I choke when my husband suggests oral sex. It's been 8 years since
the first rape and 6 since the second. I don't like being alone. I'm
petrified of noises of unknown origin in the dark and whenever I have to
go out at nighttime, I carry my keys between my fingers, regardless of
whether or not I'm going to use the car.
|
| 99.42 | "a letter to you my sisters" | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Sun Nov 05 1989 22:50 | 72 |
|
From a small binding called "The Rape Journal", by Dell
Fitzgerald-Richards, printed by Women's Press Collective, and
sold in Revolution Bookstore in Harvard Square (diag. across from
the Galleria and next to Strawberries).
[The following is the last entry in her journal.
I think the last 2 lines are particularly powerful.]
a letter to you my sisters
i have learned
i have learned the hard way
and too i have suffered much
even though i have fought
and i have tried to be brave
people will say perhaps
i write for glory
that i am sensational
but i did not bring this man upon myself
he came in the night
with knife and mask
i did not invite him into my home or bed
and i have had to live with it
to deal with it (oh and i do mean
that literally
oh so literally)
deal with it
every day at least once
so i've done the best i can
with words with poetry
the voice of my honesty
i have tried to create something positive
out of nightmare lessons
i hope that it warns you my luckier sisters
that you will be careful
both night and both day
and be alert
because we are at war even though
we are not ready and
we have not chosen this
not yet at any rate
and i hope that it helps you
my other sisters
who have shared my experience
(and i am afraid know how many
of my friends and loved ones too
have been raped
or fought someone off
that this will be the majority of you)
it will help you to feel the past
heal a very deep invisible even wound
that it will fire your anger
make you learn to fight and kick and claw
hate even when necessary
more so to know
and be ready for that necessity
perhaps even learn to use knives and guns
but at least your own body
to protect yourself
for i love you my sisters
and we have been playthings too long
|
| 99.43 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Sun Nov 05 1989 23:28 | 37 |
|
In Dell Fitgerald-Richards' last entry, I strongly identified
with her words beginning with :
i hope that it warns you my luckier sisters
that you will be careful
both night and both day
and be alert
.
.
but at least your own body
to protect yourself
.
.
for i love you my sisters
and we have been playthings too long
because it wrenches my heart to hear a woman say (variations of:)
she does not concern herself about self-protection, and if
something happened to her then she would just deal with it at
that time. My reaction to this in person (not in =wn= :-)) is
sometimes one of silence, as I can't begin to relate to her. I
just want to shake her and say NO!.
I agree that women have been easy targets of violence (and
"playthings") for too long. I expressed this somewhat more
emphatically in 708.2, the topic about Pamela Webbs murder, when
I said "The average woman is so fu*king unable to defend herself
it makes me sick".
There will always be men who look upon women as (as Bill Doll
put it elsewhere in =wn=) "life support systems for a vagina",
and I think the only deterrent for these men is the knowledge
that women know how to and are willing to defend their bodies.
nancy b.
|
| 99.44 | january 19th 1973 (by Dell Fitzgerald-Richards) | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Mon Nov 06 1989 17:46 | 22 |
|
i'm afraid i don't want to know
you had a nice day
it is too grey out for that
can't you see it?
what are these words
choice freedom and democracy
i had no choice
b movie
viddies flash before me
replayed on walls and doors
just outside
behind me
and it was all so easy
when it happened
just like in the movies i watched myself
in a play laid back watched and waited
|
| 99.45 | february 25th 1973 (by Dell Fitzgerald-Richards) | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Mon Nov 06 1989 17:48 | 27 |
|
time once was
when i went to bed with pleasant
dreams thoughts of past loves
bodies warm and close
but now
my hand touches
metal the gun
under the mattress
check my defenses
i still wake startled
seeing
for that long enough
second a vision of a masked man
silhouetted
against my bedroom lighted
door and as i
wrestle with that memory
i listen to
the noises in the street
wondering
if the dog will bark again tonight
|
| 99.46 | june 8th 1973 (by Dell Fitzgerald-Richards) | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Mon Nov 06 1989 17:50 | 32 |
|
relive my fear
get it out of my system
she (the psychologist) said
that if i didn't i would generalize it
to all men
and all fucking
perhaps that would be bad
i'm not so sure
but i wonder thinking
past simple practical considerations about
building a fortress of fear
in which to cower nightly
my parents do that
they do not go on vacation
for fear of vandals
even for the week-end
their fear has made a greater prison
for them which
i do not want for myself
it's a delicate line
a double-edged sword we walk
damned if you do
damn if you don't
it's always been the case
|
| 99.47 | july 11th 1973 (by Dell Fitzgerald-Richards) | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Mon Nov 06 1989 17:52 | 23 |
|
ten names published in the paper
news item front page b section
composite drawing
nothing like the pictures
of the suspects i saw
that was april
it happened in january
he was caught in july
he came back to one woman twice
two women moved houses
one woman left town
i wrote poetry
bought a gun
learned to shoot
did karate six days a week
and had a slight nervous breakdown
this is what i know
i wonder what else happened
|
| 99.48 | august 26th 1973 (by Dell Fitzgerald-Richards) | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Mon Nov 06 1989 17:55 | 18 |
|
can i talk to him?
can i talk to his wife?
does she know?
she is a woman too
at least you show him my poems?
how can we open the eyes of the mind?
a trial guilty
locked away for a while
rehabilitation they say
not in jail buddy
unless he gets raped by another man
we remain strangers
of the night
|
| 99.49 | september 11th 1973 (by Dell Fitzgerald-Richards) | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - Hardware Engineer; LSE | Mon Nov 06 1989 17:56 | 45 |
|
finally this eighth month
later i begin to see my fear
(the past is far enough away i guess)
coming home after six weeks
holiday
walking the streets at unafraid
i was not in america
never a fear inside
or out
the fear here strikes anew
before I created a badge
of courage around myself barriers
i could even slep at night
even alone sometimes
certainly not well slept
but slept thanking small mercies
this is my home
(both house and land that i
both hate and love)
women are raped often often
too often
the light bulb blinks in the other room
i finish the song i am playing
all the while looking for an object
any object
a hammer lately used
to hang a picture
i finish the piece cat-like
quiet enter the next room
realizing there is no one there
only a burnt out light bulb
"all right you bastard com out"
empty rooms echo my words
i exorcise a demon within
|
| 99.50 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - hardware engineer; LSE | Thu Jan 25 1990 14:48 | 38 |
|
My ex-boyfriend from college called me last night (the person
I knew I'd live happily ever after with, who broke up with me
shortly after I was raped).
This was the second time in 2 weeks; somehow he's managed to
reach me on the only 2 nights I've been home in as many weeks.
Last week was the first time we've talked in about 3.5 years.
Saying we "talked" might be stretching it a bit... It was brief.
He said "Hi, Nancy". I recognized his voice and snapped,
"How did you get my number?" [through a friend whom I stayed
with last November when I went to the parole-grant hearing] He
started to say, "I'm sorry about" and I interrupted with a
"Do you think that really matters to me now?" and hung-up.
Last night's phone call wasn't much better. I didn't say any-
thing after answering the phone, and he said, "I'm sorry to hear
that that jerk got out of prison." I said, "I don't care that
you're sorry about that. Why don't you be sorry about the way
you treated me. But I don't care about that either." and hung-up.
In the months right after he broke up with me, I used to think
that if he would only just tell me he was sorry, I would feel
a lot better about it and forgive him. It doesn't seem to be
that easy.
Both times he's called, I've gone into overdrive; getting so
angry I don't think about what I'm saying before I say it;
being so repulsed by hearing him that I hang up before he can
say more than one sentence. It scares me to think I can be so
mean to another person. And I feel bad thinking that I've
probably caused him pain by not letting him get stuff off his
chest.
nancy b.
|
| 99.51 | ***co-moderator nudge*** | LYRIC::BOBBITT | invictus maneo | Thu Jan 25 1990 15:21 | 4 |
| As denoted in the title, please take non-victim responses to 525.*.
-Jody
|
| 99.52 | Sexuality issues and rape | WMOIS::B_REINKE | if you are a dreamer, come in.. | Fri Feb 09 1990 14:03 | 84 |
|
The following reply is from a member of this community who will remain
anonymous.
Non victim replies to this note should be entered in either 525 or
961. Further I'd encourage any noter wanting to address the issues
on sexuality raised by the anon author, to start a new topic on the
subject.
If anyone wishes to correspond with the base note author directly
I will be glad to forward mail to her.
Bonnie J
=wn= comod
_______________________________________________________________
I'd like to touch on another aspect of this discussion. Before we can deal
with the reality of rape, I think we need to get our attitudes about sexuality
in tune.
Not only must it be accepted and respected when we, as women, say "no", it must
also be accepted and respected when we say "yes". I'd like to relate a true
story, a piece of my life, that may answer some questions about why some women
still have difficult time with saying what they mean in response to a man who
is coming on to them. Bear in mind that this incident didn't happen in the
bad old fifties or the sixties. It happened in 1984.
I was living with a wonderful man, with whom I had a terrific, open,
nonmonogamous relationship. We attended a dance concert and a party sponsered
by Amnesty International. While I was at the party, I met a charming man,
handsome in a David Bowie sort of way, intelligent, socially responsible - he
did a great deal of valuable work with AI, and worked hard to stop human rights
violations. I was fascinated. So was he. We exchanged phone numbers. We
spoke on the phone a couple of times in the following weeks, and decided to get
together for a date.
I drove into town on The Big Night, dressed up and excited, feeling good about
myself - this delightful man was interested in *me*! He took me to a lovely
little Italian restaurant, then to a club with a swing band, where we had
drinks and danced. We picked up my car, and I drove him home.
Outside his apartment, sitting in my car, he leaned over and kissed me. He
kissed like a dream, and I *melted*. He asked me to come up for a drink, and I
eagerly agreed. Once inside, he made my drink, kissed me again, and asked me
if I would go to bed with him. I truly wanted him, it was well within the
parameters of my primary relationship (my SO expected it to happen, and planned
on having breakfast ready when I got back in the morning, dear man), and I was
really looking forward to it. I said, "Yes, I'd like that."
He undressed me as tenderly as he had kissed me. And that was where this dream
date turned into a nightmare. His personality changed completely, he screamed
at me that I was a slut and a whore and what right did I have to being saying
"yes" to him on a first date. He beat me. Badly. I was bruised from head to
toe, muscles out of place and sprained. He forced himself on me, since "you
slutty bitch, you want it so bad here take it you whore". I managed to get out
a couple hours later and drive home, an hour away.
My SO was appalled, and would have killed the guy in person if I'd been willing
to tell him where the guy lived. He spent the next week tending my bruises,
sprains, and cuts, and holding me ever so gently. The following week, he
started, slowly and gently, to begin to make love to me, to teach me that it
was ok for me to be sexual, to say "yes". Without his care and help, it would
have taken me much longer to heal from that experience, if I ever really could.
It took a long time to recover, but I still say "yes" when I mean yes, "no"
when I mean "no" and "maybe" when I mean "maybe" (although I don't use "maybe
very often, it has acquired too much baggage.)
(Nancy, I was so angry when I read about your exSO - this is what he should
have been doing for you - I wish you could have had that kind of healing care,
and I'm horrified that someone who ostensibly loved you could have abandoned
you at such a time - you have my sympathy, sister.)
Anyway, I suffered from this jerk's misogyny, and I'm sure there are other
women who have suffered similarly. And no court in the country would convict a
man who a woman has already said "yes" to - I didn't press charges. So if you
wonder, men of =wn=, why some women say "maybe" when they mean "yes" and "no"
when they mean "maybe", consider directing your complaints to the men like
this idiot, who make it not only difficult but *dangerous* to say what we mean!
sign me,
saddened by the experience
|
| 99.53 | | SYSENG::BITTLE | nancy b. - hardware engineer; LSE | Fri Feb 09 1990 16:23 | 25 |
|
re:.52 (anon noter)
What a hideous and degrading experience you endured.
All from someone that was _apparently_ OK. Better than OK...
he appeared "delightful", "sensitive about human rights".
Whose "human rights" !?! Certainly not yours.
I think I've said this before, but if what happened to me
had been done by someone other than a total stranger, I
know my ability to trust, however slightly, new male
acquaintances would be a lot worse than it is now.
It sounded like there was absolutely no clue given before
he attacked you that he would behave in such a manner. In
retrospect, do you remmeber anything odd that just didn't
click at the time?
I am happy for you (and envious at the same time) your SO was
so cool about the situation.
nancy b.
|